Guardian blog article on last night and the wider implications

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I can understand this -I dont think things have deteriorated so much as to stop people going -its not even that bad compared to 5 to 10 years ago.

What I will say is that the atmosphere at many grounds is **** and that (along with travel costs) is the biggest put off for me- but that's not Saints related and outside the control of clubs. And IMO reducing ticket prices would only have an effect on atmospheres at the margins.

 

Thanks for actually reading my posts and not over-reacting at the fact that my definition of loyal (which pretty much follows that of the dictionary) differs to others non dictionary definition. It's not as if I am saying they are bad fans, I am sure they are excellent Saints fans, but at our highest position in the last 7 years? I don't think this is where you stop supporting the club.

[JRM]

For the benefit of people like Frank and Dibden - who states travel as the biggest factor for not going, have you got a network railcard?)

 

the loyal fans who were there week in week out in relegation championship season and league one are slowing saying enough is enough, the exploitation of the fans financially has been an on-going thing over many years, coupled with the attempt to santise modern day football grounds many have just had enough.

 

i give you a case study to go away and research- FC United of Manchester.

Despite all the trophies and success they just weren't enjoying supporting a "global brand" anymore, one that had completely lost touch with its roots and had shown complete dis-regard to the fans who had been here all along. the message from the club was loud and clear, your loyalty means nothing to us, pay up or stop coming, we have a queue of tourists waiting to buy some tickets to experience the "theatre of dreams"

 

and so they did, they stopped going, but many are now enjoying their football so much more at affordable prices, real football and real fans. No more worship to the great god of Sky Sports and the champions league.

 

love the quote Turkish put up earlier from the great Bobby Robson. he got it.

[Jonnyboy]

Loyalty is proportional to the number of tears shed when we lose and which are lost forever in the rain.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

For the benefit of people like Frank and Dibden - who states travel as the biggest factor for not going, have you got a network railcard?)

 

the loyal fans who were there week in week out in relegation championship season and league one are slowing saying enough is enough, the exploitation of the fans financially has been an on-going thing over many years, coupled with the attempt to santise modern day football grounds many have just had enough.

 

i give you a case study to go away and research- FC United of Manchester.

Despite all the trophies and success they just weren't enjoying supporting a "global brand" anymore, one that had completely lost touch with its roots and had shown complete dis-regard to the fans who had been here all along. the message from the club was loud and clear, your loyalty means nothing to us, pay up or stop coming, we have a queue of tourists waiting to buy some tickets to experience the "theatre of dreams"

 

and so they did, they stopped going, but many are now enjoying their football so much more at affordable prices, real football and real fans. No more worship to the great god of Sky Sports and the champions league.

 

love the quote Turkish put up earlier from the great Bobby Robson. he got it.

 

It is a widely held opinion that it was setup due to the Glazers take over of the club, ladening the club with debt and meaning they would invest less in players. The fact that they supported the club that has made THE MOST out of the Sky era of football (which is the reason football has changed) and the reason they stopped was due to them investing less is one of the most hypocritical reasons if you are saying the above is true to stop supporting a football club. If the takeover hadn't have happened they would have continued to support United. If you're going to pick a group of people that bunch of idiots is not the way to go.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

For the benefit of people like Frank and Dibden - who states travel as the biggest factor for not going, have you got a network railcard?)

 

the loyal fans who were there week in week out in relegation championship season and league one are slowing saying enough is enough, the exploitation of the fans financially has been an on-going thing over many years, coupled with the attempt to santise modern day football grounds many have just had enough.

 

i give you a case study to go away and research- FC United of Manchester.

Despite all the trophies and success they just weren't enjoying supporting a "global brand" anymore, one that had completely lost touch with its roots and had shown complete dis-regard to the fans who had been here all along. the message from the club was loud and clear, your loyalty means nothing to us, pay up or stop coming, we have a queue of tourists waiting to buy some tickets to experience the "theatre of dreams"

 

and so they did, they stopped going, but many are now enjoying their football so much more at affordable prices, real football and real fans. No more worship to the great god of Sky Sports and the champions league.

 

love the quote Turkish put up earlier from the great Bobby Robson. he got it.

 

And my biggest reason for not going is having a 4 month child that I would like to spend time with at the weekends. I have an Annual Gold card but it's still £25 per game to travel.

[Thedelldays]

I live 3 hours away. And go a fair few times a year

 

Could not care less if that makes me loyal or not in this case.

 

At weekends rather spend time with my Missis before the next time I go to Afghanistan, Bahrain, Fujairah or just underwater

[JRM]

It is a widely held opinion that it was setup due to the Glazers take over of the club, ladening the club with debt and meaning they would invest less in players. The fact that they supported the club that has made THE MOST out of the Sky era of football (which is the reason football has changed) and the reason they stopped was due to them investing less is one of the most hypocritical reasons if you are saying the above is true to stop supporting a football club. If the takeover hadn't have happened they would have continued to support United. If you're going to pick a group of people that bunch of idiots is not the way to go.

 

wrong. it was the straw that broke the camels back, it is bad enough when you know you are being fleeced to watch the club you love, but when the ticket prices are going up to re-pay a loan taken out by an American millionaire to buy the Manchester United brand many new that was the final straw.

these are not your United fans who live in a cul-de-sac in Surrey and follow them for the glory, they are mainly Mancunians who were born into the United supporting families.

 

just as with Saints, a big increase in ticket prices next year could be the final straw, on the one hand you have fans saying don't worry, we are being backed by financial clout, then you realise it is you putting more of your hard earned cash over the counter helping to pay for Adkins pay off and Cortese's £1.2M a year and think hang on, what the f*ck am i doing.

 

anyone remember the old lady handing over £500 when we were about to go into admin? with Bradley Wright-Phillips still picking up £8k per week? that was nearly the end for me, when you realise football is rotten to the core with greed.

[JRM]

I live 3 hours away. And go a fair few times a year

 

Could not care less if that makes me loyal or not in this case.

 

At weekends rather spend time with my Missis before the next time I go to Afghanistan, Bahrain, Fujairah or just underwater

 

just to confirm, the answer is or not.

[The Cat]

People who go a few times a year discussing loyalty with people who go week in week out. Brilliant.

[Sour Mash]

People who go a few times a year discussing loyalty with people who go week in week out. Brilliant.

This forum is always good for a chuckle, you couldn't make it up.

[Thedelldays]

This forum is always good for a chuckle, you couldn't make it up.

 

Just like you being so disgusted with the club. You keep going

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

wrong. it was the straw that broke the camels back, it is bad enough when you know you are being fleeced to watch the club you love, but when the ticket prices are going up to re-pay a loan taken out by an American millionaire to buy the Manchester United brand many new that was the final straw.

these are not your United fans who live in a cul-de-sac in Surrey and follow them for the glory, they are mainly Mancunians who were born into the United supporting families.

 

just as with Saints, a big increase in ticket prices next year could be the final straw, on the one hand you have fans saying don't worry, we are being backed by financial clout, then you realise it is you putting more of your hard earned cash over the counter helping to pay for Adkins pay off and Cortese's £1.2M a year and think hang on, what the f*ck am i doing.

 

anyone remember the old lady handing over £500 when we were about to go into admin? with Bradley Wright-Phillips still picking up £8k per week? that was nearly the end for me, when you realise football is rotten to the core with greed.

 

That's not wrong. The fans may say that is the reason they stopped, but it just wasn't. Why did so many keep on going wearing their **** green and gold scarves? You can't have it both ways. What is also telling is that only around 4000 fans decided to do this, and not necessarily 4000 fans that were loyal to United. And would you say they are more loyal Manchester United fans than the ones who have been there for 30 years and still go. I would say no, as I would say they are no longer United fans.

 

But it is the end for you now I presume? Let me know how FC Saints of Southampton gets on.

[Minty]

The point of this thread should not have been an 'Are you loyal or not?' discussion, but rather the implications for all fans (loyal or otherwise) in accepting the continuing influence of money on the game of football, and the impact it has on us... it is nothing new but as we get nearer the top of the pyramid we increasingly experience the more ruthless side of it, and it starts to clash more with our values and opinions on how things should be. And each time something happens, fans will continue to choose, often subconsciously, whether to accept it, or walk away, or try to change it in some way.

 

As has now been illustrated above, more and more fans are considering walking away.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

This forum is always good for a chuckle, you couldn't make it up.

 

What I love is your self-righteousness on the forum. It is possibly the most missplaced aspect of this forum.

[View From The Top]

People who go a few times a year discussing loyalty with people who go week in week out. Brilliant.

 

Only on here would you find it.

[ericb]

See this is where we differ. I would say that the loyal fans are the ones that went in L1 and during the admin times. The extra 8-10k or so we've picked up are Premier league fans. The loyal fans are the ones that were there when the club needed them and were willing to support the team whoever we played. Not when they could be lucky enough to catch a clipse of Wayne Rooney or Frank Lampard. They are the loyal fans, not the c*nts who f*cked off in 2005 and are now coming back now.

 

Absolutely nail on head. And a special shout to those that stood on the open terrace at Swindon away watching us in our darkest hour.

 

Oh and if you want real loyalty i think this man takes the biscuit

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/saints/news/10176603.107_year_old_has_been_following_Saints_for_100_years/

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

People who go a few times a year discussing loyalty with people who go week in week out. Brilliant.

 

I don't think it matters how often you go as long as you're not claiming to be loyal. The self righteous uberfan Sour Mash and his gang of disgusted mates will stop going I presume, and thats their choice, but in my eyes (and in the definition of the word 'loyal' - you're still not getting this point btw) they will no longer by loyal Southampton fans. I'm not saying they are bad fans, they purport to be good fans and I have no right to question that, but loyal? I don't think so.

[JRM]

That's not wrong. The fans may say that is the reason they stopped, but it just wasn't. Why did so many keep on going wearing their **** green and gold scarves? You can't have it both ways. What is also telling is that only around 4000 fans decided to do this, and not necessarily 4000 fans that were loyal to United. And would you say they are more loyal Manchester United fans than the ones who have been there for 30 years and still go. I would say no, as I would say they are no longer United fans.

 

But it is the end for you now I presume? Let me know how FC Saints of Southampton gets on.

 

that isn't a viable option for us. we don't have the resources United fans do, but we do share the same distaste at the state of the game and fellow "fans" like you who praise the premiership experience while rarely dipping into your own pocket, but then criticise those of us who do but begin to resent the way fans are treated.

 

it is not just ticket prices.

 

others on this thread have explained to you many times why loyal saints fans are disenchanted, that in itself should be a concern for the game.

 

would love the bubble to burst and legion of "new fans" clubs like chelsea have attracted to disperse, the fans who had long gone won't be coming back in a hurry.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

that isn't a viable option for us. we don't have the resources United fans do, but we do share the same distaste at the state of the game and fellow "fans" like you who praise the premiership experience while rarely dipping into your own pocket, but then criticise those of us who do but begin to resent the way fans are treated.

 

it is not just ticket prices.

 

others on this thread have explained to you many times why loyal saints fans are disenchanted, that in itself should be a concern for the game.

 

would love the bubble to burst and legion of "new fans" clubs like chelsea have attracted to disperse, the fans who had long gone won't be coming back in a hurry.

 

Why don't we have the resources? What extra resources do the United fans have?

 

And where have I praised the Premiership experience. Please don't put words in my mouth, it's a distateful thing to do and shows a waning argument.

[JRM]

The point of this thread should not have been an 'Are you loyal or not?' discussion, but rather the implications for all fans (loyal or otherwise) in accepting the continuing influence of money on the game of football, and the impact it has on us... it is nothing new but as we get nearer the top of the pyramid we increasingly experience the more ruthless side of it, and it starts to clash more with our values and opinions on how things should be. And each time something happens, fans will continue to choose, often subconsciously, whether to accept it, or walk away, or try to change it in some way.

 

As has now been illustrated above, more and more fans are considering walking away.

 

excellent point, i think Dibden chap is just on a wind up anyway banging on about who is loyal v who isn't rather than delving into the issues of the game that are resulting in fans who did go week in week out to stop.

[ericb]

Oh and just to add to the travel thing i get the train down from London every game and have a season ticket and until this season did a large number of away games too.

 

This season though i've not done a single away day since my top level i'll pay is £40 and the cheap games have been like gold dust. Not sure if that means i'm not loyal anymore though...

[Sour Mash]

The point of this thread should not have been an 'Are you loyal or not?' discussion, but rather the implications for all fans (loyal or otherwise) in accepting the continuing influence of money on the game of football, and the impact it has on us... it is nothing new but as we get nearer the top of the pyramid we increasingly experience the more ruthless side of it, and it starts to clash more with our values and opinions on how things should be. And each time something happens, fans will continue to choose, often subconsciously, whether to accept it, or walk away, or try to change it in some way.

 

As has now been illustrated above, more and more fans are considering walking away.

Very well summed up. It's what the thread was all about before DPS's trolling about loyal fans.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Very well summed up. It's what the thread was all about before DPS's trolling about loyal fans.

 

Behave, muppet.

[Sour Mash]

Behave, muppet.

Troll.

[pap]

I do find it difficult to reconcile the mouth-foaming on here with events at the game.

 

Interesting to note that the poll stats, held up again and again as some portent of doom at the match, failed to materialise in human form. Also, the hanky protest was small enough to look like a very limited outbreak of the common cold.

 

Could it be that it's easier to spout nonsense in text form than it is to realise a protest in real life?

[JRM]

I do find it difficult to reconcile the mouth-foaming on here with events at the game.

 

Interesting to note that the poll stats, held up again and again as some portent of doom at the match, failed to materialise in human form. Also, the hanky protest was small enough to look like a very limited outbreak of the common cold.

 

Could it be that it's easier to spout nonsense in text form than it is to realise a protest in real life?

 

not sure of the relevance of that point to this thread In the context of why fans are losing faith in the club. sour mash summed it up referring to fans slowly drifting away rather than mass protests.

[JRM]

Oh and just to add to the travel thing i get the train down from London every game and have a season ticket and until this season did a large number of away games too.

 

This season though i've not done a single away day since my top level i'll pay is £40 and the cheap games have been like gold dust. Not sure if that means i'm not loyal anymore though...

 

no you sound just like myself , loyal saints fans who travel the length of the country but realise when it's gone to far and we are just being fleeced. I'm not going to man united but can't wait for wigan , will be a massive turn out of fans mostly on the same wave length

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

no you sound just like myself , loyal saints fans who travel the length of the country but realise when it's gone to far and we are just being fleeced. I'm not going to man united but can't wait for wigan , will be a massive turn out of fans mostly on the same wave length

 

So are you just not going to home games then?

[shurlock]

no you sound just like myself , loyal saints fans who travel the length of the country but realise when it's gone to far and we are just being fleeced. I'm not going to man united but can't wait for wigan , will be a massive turn out of fans mostly on the same wave length

 

Fleeced really? When you add everything up and a day's football today is not that much more than our L1 days (the higher ticket prices are offset by lower travel costs i.e. travelling to some metropolitan centre is cheaper than trekking to some out-of-reach town).

What I think is slightly odd are some of those fans who think there's extra kudos in going to a place like carlisle. Are they really loyal -or do they just get more satisfaction from doing these games. Some might prefer gritty northern dumps; others watching superstars in soulless arenas. But on a personal, self-interested level, is there a big difference between the two?

[Sour Mash]

Fleeced really? When you add everything up and a day's football today is not that much more than our L1 days (the higher ticket prices are offset by lower travel costs i.e. travelling to some metropolitan centre is cheaper than trekking to some out-of-reach town).

What I think is slightly odd are some of those fans who think there's extra kudos in going to a place like carlisle. Are they really loyal -or do they just get more satisfaction from doing these games. Some might prefer gritty northern dumps; others watching superstars in soulless arenas. But on a personal, self-interested level, is there a big difference between the two?

Take out Carlisle away and replace it with Stockport at home then.

[Tomobz]

no you sound just like myself , loyal saints fans who travel the length of the country but realise when it's gone to far and we are just being fleeced. I'm not going to man united but can't wait for wigan , will be a massive turn out of fans mostly on the same wave length

 

Exactly this. It's amazing how many ''fans'' would say otherwise though. When we have a 3rd round cup draw I'm always praying for non league opposition away but most ''fans'' get excited about United or Chelsea. I guess our experience of football and we want for our money is different to the ''premier league watcher'' though.

[View From The Top]

no you sound just like myself , loyal saints fans who travel the length of the country but realise when it's gone to far and we are just being fleeced. I'm not going to man united but can't wait for wigan , will be a massive turn out of fans mostly on the same wave length

 

None of mine are going to Utd, we are all going to Wigan.

 

We'll leave Utd to the Premier League day trippers who are happy to pay an insane amount.

Edited 22 January, 2013 by View From The Top

[Tomobz]

Fleeced really? When you add everything up and a day's football today is not that much more than our L1 days (the higher ticket prices are offset by lower travel costs i.e. travelling to some metropolitan centre is cheaper than trekking to some out-of-reach town).

What I think is slightly odd are some of those fans who think there's extra kudos in going to a place like carlisle. Are they really loyal -or do they just get more satisfaction from doing these games. Some might prefer gritty northern dumps; others watching superstars in soulless arenas. But on a personal, self-interested level, is there a big difference between the two?

 

Average away ticket prices are massively different to league 1. Yeovil was £15 for example and I don't remember any tickets costing more than £25 (although I may have been wrong) and that is the price point for a lot of the loyal support

[Tomobz]

At the end of the day people go to games for different reasons, the price point is only one of the many negatives about top flight football now for many hardcore supporters. Just ask yourself this though DPS, would you be happy if saints turned into a multi national money hungry brand like United? I would hate to support them personally

[shurlock]

Take out Carlisle away and replace it with Stockport at home then.

 

Agree -if anything the home, midweekers against lower league opposition, esp if you're travelling in, are the hardest to do.

[JRM]

Fleeced really? When you add everything up and a day's football today is not that much more than our L1 days (the higher ticket prices are offset by lower travel costs i.e. travelling to some metropolitan centre is cheaper than trekking to some out-of-reach town).

What I think is slightly odd are some of those fans who think there's extra kudos in going to a place like carlisle. Are they really loyal -or do they just get more satisfaction from doing these games. Some might prefer gritty northern dumps; others watching superstars in soulless arenas. But on a personal, self-interested level, is there a big difference between the two?

 

£51 man city

£50 Chelsea

£42 Liverpool

£45 Man Utd.

 

you don't think that is being fleeced?

 

also to the travel point, we generally found it easier to get cheap train deals for the likes of Carlisle away (think did £22 from London) then it is now where northern away games you are competing for the advanced fares with the london based man united fans etc.

[Sour Mash]

Agree -if anything the home, midweekers against lower league opposition, esp if you're travelling in, are the hardest to do.

Quite. Can also add a large chunk of 08/09 season to that, be it home or away, big ground or small. I think we all know those that do such games are loyal, so it's a bit of a silly debate.

[Tomobz]

Agree -if anything the home, midweekers against lower league opposition, esp if you're travelling in, are the hardest to do.

 

Agreed. I remember a particuarly stale 0-0 with PNE a few seasons back. Spent the whole game trying to think up a song for Nigel Pearson

 

*edit. I think it was actually a 1-0 loss!

[JRM]

Agree -if anything the home, midweekers against lower league opposition, esp if you're travelling in, are the hardest to do.

 

i remember chatting to a couple of Dagenham and Redbridge fans on the way back from the Tuesday night game at St Marys, it would do some on here good to speak to similar fans and what they get out of football, no glamour, even the train broke down on the way back and we had to get cabs from waterloo.

[Tomobz]

Quite. Can also add a large chunk of 08/09 season to that, be it home or away, big ground or small. I think we all know those that do such games are loyal, so it's a bit of a silly debate.

 

This shouldn't have turned into an ''I'm more loyal than you'' debate. I think most people are in unison that football is changing and we are being raped through our noses, it just takes a while to realise it when you live and die by the club

[shurlock]

Average away ticket prices are massively different to league 1. Yeovil was £15 for example and I don't remember any tickets costing more than £25 (although I may have been wrong) and that is the price point for a lot of the loyal support

 

Arsenal was £25 for example. I travel to and from London. I did Yeovil both times. Even though you can use your network railcard, the fare is still 3X more expensive than, say, a trip to Birmingham.

Throw in the number of midweek fixtures in NPC and L1 and it adds up. The second time I went to Yeovil, I had to spend the night there and there were not many ways around that.

[Tomobz]

Arsenal was £25 for example. I travel to and from London. I did Yeovil both times. Even though you can use your network railcard, the fare is still 3X more expensive than, say, a trip to Birmingham.

Throw in the number of midweek fixtures in NPC and L1 and it adds up. The second time I went to Yeovil, I had to spend the night there and there were not many ways around that.

 

We were really lucky at Arsenal though and I don't think we will get off so lightly next season (if we stay up). It's not the total cost of the day though, it's more the thought of paying these prices when your support is not even respected or rewarded and in some cases isn't even wanted!

[JRM]

Arsenal was £25 for example. I travel to and from London. I did Yeovil both times. Even though you can use your network railcard, the fare is still 3X more expensive than, say, a trip to Birmingham.

Throw in the number of midweek fixtures in NPC and L1 and it adds up. The second time I went to Yeovil, I had to spend the night there and there were not many ways around that.

 

there are examples of cheaper tickets, and those clubs should be applauded, West Brom as well, hats off to them.

midweek away games are inconvenient but we had some crackers that season, Yeovil wasn't really one of them couldn't find anything in town open after the game, Hartlepool and Rochdale were fantastic. you can get a network railcard return to yeovil i think, it wasn't too bad from memory.

[ericb]

midweek away games are inconvenient but we had some crackers that season,

 

Peteborough away is still one of my favourite away days i've ever done, absolutely cracking laugh at a proper football ground, with an old style terrace, we won (in style) and great pubs around.

 

On top of that the Peterborough fans were a really good bunch too, funny and plenty of respect for us and the noise we made.

[Tamesaint]

Peteborough away is still one of my favourite away days i've ever done, absolutely cracking laugh at a proper football ground, with an old style terrace, we won (in style) and great pubs around.

 

On top of that the Peterborough fans were a really good bunch too, funny and plenty of respect for us and the noise we made.

 

and the pies were good

[CB Fry]

Peteborough away is still one of my favourite away days i've ever done, absolutely cracking laugh at a proper football ground, with an old style terrace, we won (in style) and great pubs around.

 

On top of that the Peterborough fans were a really good bunch too, funny and plenty of respect for us and the noise we made.

 

Worst thing about Peterboro away last season was driving home having to listen to an hour of fawning over Reading on Five Live after they secured promotion that night.

 

Brilliant game and atmosphere as you say though.

[The Cat]

I don't think it matters how often you go as long as you're not claiming to be loyal. The self righteous uberfan Sour Mash and his gang of disgusted mates will stop going I presume, and thats their choice, but in my eyes (and in the definition of the word 'loyal' - you're still not getting this point btw) they will no longer by loyal Southampton fans. I'm not saying they are bad fans, they purport to be good fans and I have no right to question that, but loyal? I don't think so.

 

But there has to be a point when principles outweigh any fans loyalty? To be charged around £50 for a game of football is sickening and something that a lot of us can't live with. Despite originally deciding to give Man City a miss because of the price I crumbled under the weight of it being our first game back in the Premier League and begrudgingly stumped up the cash. I wouldn't again though.

 

Ticket prices clearly affect fans loyalty. All things considering our turnout at Stamford Bridge was fairly awful. We took more to watch our reserves play a League Cup game at Selhurst midweek last season. That can only be because of ticket prices as it's clear which was the more important game.

[dronskisaint]

yeh read it too - some good points, though i don't accept the implication that the lack of protest means that we're 'captive consumers', willing to take it up the ****

nice picture of thischarmingman.

 

:d:d

[shurlock]

Peteborough away is still one of my favourite away days i've ever done, absolutely cracking laugh at a proper football ground, with an old style terrace, we won (in style) and great pubs around.

 

On top of that the Peterborough fans were a really good bunch too, funny and plenty of respect for us and the noise we made.

 

P'boro was for daytrippers tho

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

But there has to be a point when principles outweigh any fans loyalty? To be charged around £50 for a game of football is sickening and something that a lot of us can't live with. Despite originally deciding to give Man City a miss because of the price I crumbled under the weight of it being our first game back in the Premier League and begrudgingly stumped up the cash. I wouldn't again though.

 

Ticket prices clearly affect fans loyalty. All things considering our turnout at Stamford Bridge was fairly awful. We took more to watch our reserves play a League Cup game at Selhurst midweek last season. That can only be because of ticket prices as it's clear which was the more important game.

 

But my points all through this are in reference to Southampton football club and our ticket prices, not the wider world.