Guardian blog article on last night and the wider implications

[Minty]

Thought this was a very good article, capturing things well and asking very pertinent questions about the wider game:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/jan/21/southampton-nigel-adkins-supporters?intcmp=239

[shurlock]

Yeh read it too - some good points, though I don't accept the implication that the lack of protest means that we're 'captive consumers', willing to take it up the ****

Nice picture of ThisCharmingMan.

[Window Cleaner]

Thought this was a very good article, capturing things well and asking very pertinent questions about the wider game:

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/jan/21/southampton-nigel-adkins-supporters?intcmp=239

 

looks like one of our new Japanese fans holding up the panel.

[Minty]

... I don't accept the implication that the lack of protest means that we're 'captive consumers'...

 

Perhaps not that exact phrase, but as I've been posting, mainly on Saintslist recently (it was less hysterical than on here at the time), we have to admit that our emotional attachment to our clubs means we have a difficult choice to make in these circumstances. As much as we may disagree with Cortese's methods or actions, we generally only have three choices: Walk away from Saints and football completely (and respect to those who do), protest in some way to try and effect change, or carry on supporting the club and going to games (captive fans, if not consumers).

 

If we're honest with ourselves, most of us do the last option eventually, even if we're not happy to do so.

[Tokyo-Saint]

looks like one of our new Japanese fans holding up the panel.

,

 

I don't think they are Japanese, look Chinese to me.

[Frank's cousin]

I liked this response

 

'Sensible Southampton Fans 1 v the ever-hysteric English media 0'

 

Not sure it goes into that much detail of wider implications - what should they be? Should football really be SO important that it causes deep wounds, hatred, protest as if we were fighting a corrupt or dictatorial Government?

 

Passion is strange beast - and what it means to each of us will be different - for some its standing up to politely applaud a great goal, for others screaming at Guly. And whilst the cliched claims of water cooler positivity in the office and increased production within community business following a decent result, may resonate, I tend to file that one with Seaman Staines and Roger the cabin boy in the urban myth drawer.

 

The emotional outburst that some seem to think is necessary to demonstrate passion and loyalty is another. Ask those who have not followed the mass out-pouring of grief expressed since Friday what they think, and there is sadness at the way a decent man has been treated, but recognition that in professional sport, people make decisions on what they believe will deliver results, not on sentiment (oft the preserve of the 'plucky' loser).

 

Supporters/fans are also guilty of incredible hypocrissy - the way we vilify players we dont like, from Guly, to Forecast, to Pulis. Ship them out, laugh and poor scorn - yet whilst we complain about the WAY Nigel was sacked, we have no sympathy for players or managers that dont meet our expectations - and lose no sleep when our wishes are granted and they are packed off to obscurity - forgetting they are people as well. We want it both ways, to be able to show our passion for those we like represented by such positive platitudes, loyalty, decency, interity and chastise those that make the decsions with 'disgust' or profanity... yet celebrate the dissappearence of the players and mangers we dont - airbrushed from memory, except as future figures of comedy, like Adkins from the program notes.

 

Passion IS what football is about. But we should not expect it to be demonstrated in the same way by all, nor should we believe that by demonstrating it when it suits us, that it gives us the moral high ground - we do afterall share more in common with Cortese than many would care to admit - nor is passion the preserve of the vocal.

 

Despite what is said in that piece, I was proud of the fans and players response last night and I believe Nigel would have been to. He remained dignified throughout and the fans and players echoed that last night. Nice to see that some of Nige's best qualities have rubbed off on our fans and players.

[Sour Mash]

There was never going to be any great protest or waving of hankies. There will be no great protest by fans as to the state of football and the way their clubs ar run. Just gradually, slowly, the proper, loyal football fans will drift away, to be replcaced by the plastic, sit-in-silence, cash cows we see and mock at The Emirates, Anfield and Old Trafford.

[Minty]

Nice to see that some of Nige's best qualities have rubbed off on our fans and players.

 

And I think that will be his most significant lasting legacy... he managed to ingrain his positivity into many fans who perhaps had never looked at things that way before.

['00']

Life is a series of natural and spontaneous changes. Don’t resist them – that only creates sorrow. Let reality be reality. Let things flow naturally forward in whatever way they like.” - Lao-Tzu

 

Sign him up

[stevegrant]

Perhaps not that exact phrase, but as I've been posting, mainly on Saintslist recently

Saintslist is still going?!

[Frank's cousin]

There was never going to be any great protest or waving of hankies. There will be no great protest by fans as to the state of football and the way their clubs ar run. Just gradually, slowly, the proper, loyal football fans will drift away, to be replcaced by the plastic, sit-in-silence, cash cows we see and mock at The Emirates, Anfield and Old Trafford.

 

Why? that is their choice - they go it becomes a self fullfling prophecy - there is no devine right that fottball must confornm to one culture, one ethos - eveything evolves and only the fans themselves can ensure it goes in any one direction by sticking with it.

 

Walk away so that you can sit home alone pontificatiung about how the game is no longer the same, its soul ripped out and other such cliched crap all you like, but its totalluy a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

Football began as blokes kicking around a ball on pitch - some decided to watch - it grew, it evolved and grew again, apart from a decline in the 70s and 80s when the very 'culture' some view with nostalgic rose tinted glasses and the tribalistic nature saw dwindling crowds and interest. But ultimately its still about blokes kicking abll around on a pitch trying to score - if you and others have elevated it into some deep meaningful tribal emotive thing - thats your business, but it id noT start that way, nor was it like that for the first 100 years or so - that evolved and its just changing again. You dont like it, fair enough, as you say, others feel they do and will fill the empty seats if you stay away.

[trousers]

I was proud of the fans and players response last night and I believe Nigel would have been to. He remained dignified throughout and the fans and players echoed that last night. Nice to see that some of Nige's best qualities have rubbed off on our fans and players.

 

This, totally. Sadly it's too much of a sophisticated observation for the media to pick up on.

[Sour Mash]

Why? that is their choice - they go it becomes a self fullfling prophecy - there is no devine right that fottball must confornm to one culture, one ethos - eveything evolves and only the fans themselves can ensure it goes in any one direction by sticking with it.

 

Walk away so that you can sit home alone pontificatiung about how the game is no longer the same, its soul ripped out and other such cliched crap all you like, but its totalluy a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

Football began as blokes kicking around a ball on pitch - some decided to watch - it grew, it evolved and grew again, apart from a decline in the 70s and 80s when the very 'culture' some view with nostalgic rose tinted glasses and the tribalistic nature saw dwindling crowds and interest. But ultimately its still about blokes kicking abll around on a pitch trying to score - if you and others have elevated it into some deep meaningful tribal emotive thing - thats your business, but it id noT start that way, nor was it like that for the first 100 years or so - that evolved and its just changing again. You dont like it, fair enough, as you say, others feel they do and will fill the empty seats if you stay away.

You're aggreeing with my point, it's their choice and their place will be taken by those happy to pay and put up for anything for the "brand". But if/when the bubble bursts, either for football as a whole, or the clubs concerned and those clubs drop back down, the people that stuck with the club at their lowest point may be long gone.

[Frank's cousin]

You're aggreeing with my point, it's their choice and their place will be taken by those happy to pay and put up for anything for the "brand". But if/when the bubble bursts, either for football as a whole, or the clubs concerned and those clubs drop back down, the people that stuck with the club at their lowest point may be long gone.

 

But why do some feel that just because ' business culture' of the game is changing, they need to walk away? (price permitting) The game is still the same, and most would argue a fair bit better than 30 years ago? Supporting STARTED life as there was excitement in watching what was happening on the pitch, its why sport is entertaining - that has NOT changed throughout, no matter what demographic the audience. If its the 'Atmosphere' and culture of the club has become more important to you than the game itself, then that is NOT the games fault. Its more symptomatic of the something else missing in life, belonging, fraternity all that ******, not the game

[shurlock]

Perhaps not that exact phrase, but as I've been posting, mainly on Saintslist recently (it was less hysterical than on here at the time), we have to admit that our emotional attachment to our clubs means we have a difficult choice to make in these circumstances. As much as we may disagree with Cortese's methods or actions, we generally only have three choices: Walk away from Saints and football completely (and respect to those who do), protest in some way to try and effect change, or carry on supporting the club and going to games (captive fans, if not consumers).

 

If we're honest with ourselves, most of us do the last option eventually, even if we're not happy to do so.

 

Possibly - but we're not like City, Arsenal or Everton. We've got longer memories and plumbed deeper depths in recent times. The suggestion that we're apathetic, passive or indeed captive is way off the mark IMO. Its the opposite. We're nervous and sensitive to things going tits up again, getting relegated, incurring huge sunk costs and being sucked into a downward spiral. Your average cash cow fan who follows one of the big teams will never understand what it means to go through this.

Indeed, it frankly takes no effort or risk to protest if you're a united or chelsea fan - their clubs prem and financial status is secure. What's the worst that can happen if they protest: they risk a few poor results (note some of the papers appeared to suggest that the one nigel adkins chant was not enough and we should be protesting in more direct/vocal ways). But for us, a few poor results might ultimately be the difference between safety and relegation.

Basically the papers don't get it - for all the talk about the ordinary fan, their position is a rarefied reflection of what is possible for fans at the top of the pyramid (or perhaps coasting in obscurity) and dangerously risky for the rest of us.

Edited 22 January, 2013 by shurlock

[Tokyo-Saint]

Saintslist is still going?!

 

*Steve strokes a white cat and laughs evilly as he scoffs and mocks his smaller competitors*

[Sour Mash]

But why do some feel that just because ' business culture' of the game is changing' date=' they need to walk away? (price permitting) The game is still the same, and most would argue a fair bit better than 30 years ago? Supporting STARTED life as there was excitement in watching what was happening on the pitch, its why sport is entertaining - that has NOT changed throughout, no matter what demographic the audience. If its the 'Atmosphere' and culture of the club has become more important to you than the game itself, then that is NOT the games fault. Its more symptomatic of the something else missing in life, belonging, fraternity all that ******, not the game[/quote'] If football support was purely based on entertainment on the pitch we would have attendances of 0 people in the Branfoot days or the 08/09 season. I think it's safe to say you don't understand those sort of supporters and I'll never really appreciate your sort and we can leave it there.

Edited 22 January, 2013 by Sour Mash

[stevegrant]

*Steve strokes a white cat and laughs evilly as he scoffs and mocks his smaller competitors*

[Sour Mash]

Possibly - but we're not like City, Arsenal or Everton. We've got longer memories and plumbed deeper depths in recent times. The suggestion that we're apathetic, passive or indeed captive is way off the mark IMO. Its the opposite. We're nervous and sensitive to things going tits up again, getting relegated, incurring huge sunk costs and being sucked into a downward spiral. Your average cash cow fan who follows one of the big teams will never understand what it means to go through this.

Indeed, it frankly takes no effort or risk to protest if you're a united or chelsea fan - their clubs prem and financial status is secure. What's the worst that can happen if they protest: they risk a few poor results (note some of the papers appeared to suggest that the one nigel adkins chant was not enough and we should be protesting in more direct/vocal ways). But for us, a few poor results might ultimately be the difference between safety and relegation.

Basically the papers don't get it - for all the talk about the ordinary fan, their position is a rarefied reflection of what is possible for fans at the top of the pyramid (or perhaps coasting in obscurity) and dangerously risky for the rest of us.

Interesting view, but what about the likes of Blackburn last season?

[Frank's cousin]

If football support was purely based on entertainment on the pitch we would have attendancs of 0 people in the Branfoot days or the 08/09 season. I think it's safe to say you don't understand those sort of supporters and I'll never really appreciate your sort and we can leave it there.

 

It is still the hope, even when playing shiedt - and sorry but the triablism you seem to 'need' or that you say is the 'soul' of the club is based on a period of the game that came 100 years plus into its life - crowds went before and crowds went after - and you have abslutely no idea what kind of fan I am . I do understand those sorts of supporters, I am just saying the game existed long before they came along and will continue to do so long after they are all at home complaining about Japanese tourists feeling sorry for thems and missing out. Dinosaurs became extinct becuase they could not adapt to teh CONSTANTLY evolving environment. Football has been constantly evolving since day one and the 'sort of supporter' you feel 'owns' football and should be the only type allowed, is merely just another species in that continuum. That 'sort' will either evolve with it or die out - fair enough, but the game is still interesting enough people for it to thrive - just in a different way from what YOU think it should - and you and 'your sort' do not have that right, sorry you dont and its a cliched romanticism and arrogant to think you do.

 

Would add, I understand that view because its human nature to be only really able to appreciate what we know and what we grew up with, but to assume the game was always thus and always should be is what is wrong in my opinion

Edited 22 January, 2013 by Frank's cousin

[Sour Mash]

It is still the hope' date=' even when playing shiedt - and sorry but the triablism you seem to 'need' or that you say is the 'soul' of the club is based on a period of the game that came 100 years plus into its life - crowds went before and crowds went after - and you have abslutely no idea what kind of fan. I do understand those sorts of supporters, I am just saying the game existed long before they came along and will continue to do so long after they are all at home complaining about Japanese tourists feeling sorry for thems and missing out. Dinosaurs became extinct becuas ethey could not adapt to teh CONSTANTLY evolving environment. Football has been constantly evolving since day one and the 'sort of supporter' you feel 'owns' football and should be the only type allowed, is merely just another species in that continuum. That 'sort' will either evolve with it or die out - fair enough, but the game is still interesting enough people for it to thrive - just in a different way from what YOU think it should - and you and 'your sort' do not have that right, sorry you dont and its a cliched romantisism and arrogant to think you do.[/quote'] What a weird post, made up of stuff that is nothing to do with what I've posted. You are an odd one.

[Turkish]

Why? that is their choice - they go it becomes a self fullfling prophecy - there is no devine right that fottball must confornm to one culture, one ethos - eveything evolves and only the fans themselves can ensure it goes in any one direction by sticking with it.

 

Walk away so that you can sit home alone pontificatiung about how the game is no longer the same, its soul ripped out and other such cliched crap all you like, but its totalluy a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

Football began as blokes kicking around a ball on pitch - some decided to watch - it grew, it evolved and grew again, apart from a decline in the 70s and 80s when the very 'culture' some view with nostalgic rose tinted glasses and the tribalistic nature saw dwindling crowds and interest. But ultimately its still about blokes kicking abll around on a pitch trying to score - if you and others have elevated it into some deep meaningful tribal emotive thing - thats your business, but it id noT start that way, nor was it like that for the first 100 years or so - that evolved and its just changing again. You dont like it, fair enough, as you say, others feel they do and will fill the empty seats if you stay away.

 

"What is a club in any case?

 

Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes.

 

It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city.

 

It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love."

 

 

To some of us that is what it once was and no longer is. Those people are dying about and their place being taken by toursits and day trippers and people like you where it's just 22 blokes kicking a ball around a field. You dont get it do you, but then that comes as no surprise.

[Sour Mash]

"What is a club in any case?

 

Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes.

 

It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city.

 

It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love."

 

 

To some of us that is what it once was and no longer is. Those people are dying about and their place being taken by toursits and day trippers and people like you where it's just 22 blokes kicking a ball around a field. You dont get it do you, but then that comes as no surprise.

Rubbish mate,for Frank's Cousin and his ilk, it's all about evolving the brand, following closely on the internet and cheering on the Chairman.

[shurlock]

Interesting view, but what about the likes of Blackburn last season?

 

I don't think the protests helped them and possibly contributed to their relegation (of course, there's no way of knowing).

Unlike most clubs, we know what its like to protest against the club and chairmen. One underestimated effect is on the fanbase. Over time its rarely a case of the fans protesting against the club/chairmen. All too often you get splits and bad blood among supporters which is perhaps the most unnecessary and unfortunate. Some of that lingers today and I think a alot of saints fans can't be a****d to go through that again. Try explaining that to the media.

Edited 22 January, 2013 by shurlock

[Frank's cousin]

"What is a club in any case?

 

Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes.

 

It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city.

 

It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love."

 

 

To some of us that is what it once was and no longer is. Those people are dying about and their place being taken by toursits and day trippers and people like you where it's just 22 blokes kicking a ball around a field. You dont get it do you, but then that comes as no surprise.

 

You love making sweeping assumptions dont you - You are the one that does not get it - Every generation has its own view of what football, and clubs mean to them depending on what they grow up with, that the whole fricken point - Things change and evolve and each generation makes it their own as they are entitled to. You can go all king Canute about it if you like, or you can stop whinging about change and be part of it.

 

The 'uberfan' mentality is so pathetic its scary....

[Frank's cousin]

Rubbish mate,for Frank's Cousin and his ilk, it's all about evolving the brand, following closely on the internet and cheering on the Chairman.

 

Yep thats right... obviously understood every word ....

[stevegrant]

The 'uberfan' mentality is so pathetic its scary....

Surely an "uberfan mentality" would be one where the club is supported and defended even in the face of indefensible actions and evidence?

[Turkish]

Yep thats right... obviously understood every word ....

 

some bullsh*t about dinosaurs not being able to adapt to their enviroment wasn't it?

[Frank's cousin]

some bullsh*t about dinosaurs not being able to adapt to their enviroment wasn't it?

 

Aye simple analogy - if its beyond your comprehension suggest you get an education

[Sour Mash]

You love making sweeping assumptions dont you - You are the one that does not get it - Every generation has its own view of what football, and clubs mean to them depending on what they grow up with, that the whole fricken point - Things change and evolve and each generation makes it their own as they are entitled to. You can go all king Canute about it if you like, or you can stop whinging about change and be part of it.

 

The 'uberfan' mentality is so pathetic its scary....

Every generation? So all those young lads that get priced out of modern football or get p***d off about not being able to stand or sing, which "generation" do they fit into?

[Sour Mash]

Surely an "uberfan mentality" would be one where the club is supported and defended even in the face of indefensible actions and evidence?

Exactly, often done over an internet forum without bothering to go to games and support the team themselves.

[Frank's cousin]

Surely an "uberfan mentality" would be one where the club is supported and defended even in the face of indefensible actions and evidence?

 

No its one in which a self appoint 'elite' try and define a narrow view/demographic of what a fan should be/feel/believe' and who feel threatened when they see change - and obviously this does not include Japanese - who obviously as a nation have no idea about supporting football....

[Frank's cousin]

Exactly, often done over an internet forum without bothering to go to games and support the team themselves.

 

I paid my dues for over 15 years as an ST holder and hundreds of away games - Current location makes it slightly less practical.... but hey what does that matter, I dont go now so have no say? Jeez... next your'll be saying your dad is bigger than mine'.... fricken playground this place at times.

[Turkish]

I paid my dues for over 15 years as an ST holder and hundreds of away games - Current location makes it slightly less practical.... but hey what does that matter' date=' I dont go now so have no say? Jeez... next your'll be saying your dad is bigger than mine'.... fricken playground this place at times.[/quote']

 

Weren't you the one that started the uberfan stuff?

[Minty]

Frank, I think you're looking at this a bit simplistically. I certainly don't think any section of fans has any divine right to expect football to be the way they want it to be, but you cannot argue that football is becoming less and less accessible to many fans because of the money required/involved, through little or no fault of their own.

 

You might see that as a 'natural evolution' of the game, but I'm with Sour Mash and Turkish on this one... we're not moving away from the game, the game is moving away from us, and purely because of the financial interests of those at the top, the tv/media/sponsors etc.

 

(Oh, and seeing as this is my thread, it'd be quite nice if people could stick to the topic and reign in the personal/unneccessary stuff, ta.)

[Turkish]

Aye simple analogy - if its beyond your comprehension suggest you get an education

 

Oh and now Frank gets all personal because dinosaurs dying out millions of years ago are exactly the same as people being priced out of football. You're mental!!

[Sour Mash]

Oh and now Frank gets all personal because dinosaurs dying out millions of years ago are exactly the same as people being priced out of football. You're mental!!

If you don't like certain aspects of modern day football you're a dinosaur with something wrong with you and you need to evolve and behave like Arsenal or Liverpool's home support as that's just the way fotball is these days so there.

[aintforever]

There was never going to be any great protest or waving of hankies. There will be no great protest by fans as to the state of football and the way their clubs ar run. Just gradually, slowly, the proper, loyal football fans will drift away, to be replcaced by the plastic, sit-in-silence, cash cows we see and mock at The Emirates, Anfield and Old Trafford.

 

Agree with this.

 

Frank's cousin is obviously oblivious to football in other countries around the World where there is still some passion and atmosphere.

[Frank's cousin]

Frank, I think you're looking at this a bit simplistically. I certainly don't think any section of fans has any divine right to expect football to be the way they want it to be, but you cannot argue that football is becoming less and less accessible to many fans because of the money required/involved, through little or no fault of their own.

 

You might see that as a 'natural evolution' of the game, but I'm with Sour Mash and Turkish on this one... we're not moving away from the game, the game is moving away from us, and purely because of the financial interests of those at the top, the tv/media/sponsors etc.

 

(Oh, and seeing as this is my thread, it'd be quite nice if people could stick to the topic and reign in the personal/unneccessary stuff, ta.)

 

I dont disagree that the pricing policy is making it harder for some fans to continue going - and yes the game IS moving away form what many see as its current fan base.... The point is though, the game has always shifted in the past its been in terms of culture, just so happens the current shift is primarily financial which obviously impacts most on those with lower means. Yes that is sad, but it is reflective of most things in life, we each have choices to make on what we can or can not justify finciancially - its not just football that has seen this change.

 

I want to see the club reach whatever it can - and not at whatever cost as some like to assume, but on footballing principles - for me the idea of youth + a few select younger foreign players, playing a modern fast paced attcking style is what floats my boat, and in the modern game there is a cost associated with that. If for others its the attendance that means most, the terrace culture etc, fair play, but tio expect both is more unrealistic - those times have gone. We accept that or stop going, but will say again, football will continue to change - the question every fan needs to ask is whether they want to be part of it or not.... but whinging about it aint going to make a blind bit of difference.

[Frank's cousin]

Oh and now Frank gets all personal because dinosaurs dying out millions of years ago are exactly the same as people being priced out of football. You're mental!!

 

FAIL# 1 - it really is simple trust me

[Frank's cousin]

If you don't like certain aspects of modern day football you're a dinosaur with something wrong with you and you need to evolve and behave like Arsenal or Liverpool's home support as that's just the way fotball is these days so there.

 

FAIL #2 It really is simple

[CB Fry]

If you don't like certain aspects of modern day football you're a dinosaur with something wrong with you and you need to evolve and behave like Arsenal or Liverpool's home support as that's just the way fotball is these days so there.

 

Franky's never going to fill his 50,000 German-model stadium with that attitude.

[Frank's cousin]

Agree with this.

 

Frank's cousin is obviously oblivious to football in other countries around the World where there is still some passion and atmosphere.

 

Oh dear... look not at all, Couple of points, 1) did not think I needed to add 'this country' into every line - and 2) I am more than aware of how things operate abroard and Germany is a prime example - but we are not allowed to talk about pricing models that might work here had we more capacity or not because Turkish thinks tahts is hilarious

[Minty]

I think this is a bit different to 'most things in life' Frank, not many things in life have seen a rise of around 1000% since the late 80's...

 

http://soccerlens.com/english-football-finances-1981-2011/91782/

[Frank's cousin]

Franky's never going to fill his 50,000 German-model stadium with that attitude.

 

You guys like a good laugh, masks the ignorance and unwillingness to take anything serious enough for a discussion. Well its hilarious as feck that you want to dismiss my opinion here, yet are equally dismissive of even discussing models used abroad that would possibly ensure Sour's 'sort' can continue being an integral part of teh club culture... which is it to be?

 

I never said it was RIGHT, just that I accept that it is happening

[Turkish]

FAIL# 1 - it really is simple trust me

 

Maybe it's me and im being thick. Can you explain how someone that can't afford to pay £60 for a ticket to football is meant to evolve like the dinosaurs didn't?

[Frank's cousin]

I think this is a bit different to 'most things in life' Frank, not many things in life have seen a rise of around 1000% since the late 80's...

 

http://soccerlens.com/english-football-finances-1981-2011/91782/

 

 

Its a vicious circle - I dare say many clubs strated upping tickets post all seater to compensate for revenue loss, especially when the revenue sharing stopped, but would not be surprized if part of the hike was designed to try and remove a certain element from the crowd... as the prem Sky riches came, and it was clear that a more affluent demographic was interested in football and felt safer coming back to all seater grounds, I am sure clubs have exploited it further - no one is saying that is right, but it is the way it is. Therefore, my point has always been, what is it about football and supporting saints that IS most important to me if I cant have it all?

 

Well it has to be how we play, how we progress - thatc ombination I mention in a previous post - otherwise what is the point if we dont have a desire to improve?

[Sour Mash]

FAIL #2 It really is simple

And with that, you've convinced me! I want to evolve. I don't want people to think I'm a dinosaur or there's something wrong with me. What do I need to do to become one of your new generation? What should we be doing? Please help us Frank.

[Frank's cousin]

Maybe it's me and im being thick. Can you explain how someone that can't afford to pay £60 for a ticket to football is meant to evolve like the dinosaurs didn't?

 

That was not the point of the analogy so is irrelevent - the point of that anology is that rightly or wrongly EVERYTHING including football changes/evolves. If fans can not adapt to it, they will be replaced by others - again rightly or wrongly. Its has always been thus - the Grampa, Son and Grandson flat capped rattle era was replaced by the more agressive Yoof, now being replaced by the polite sitting middle income crowd...in this country.

 

As fans of any era, you either adapt and follow the new way or become extinct - the point being it football survives with or without you or I. This may seem callus and harsh but 'evolution; is like that and in 2 or 3 generations time, it will be forgotten anyway.

[Frank's cousin]

And with that, you've convinced me! I want to evolve. I don't want people to think I'm a dinosaur or there's something wrong with me. What do I need to do to become one of your new generation? What should we be doing? Please help us Frank.

 

 

... to amuse you... you keep going, you dont walk away complaining about Japanese tourists. Cant afford an ST? Drink less beer, dont drink, well select the games yo can afford, but dont walk away. That is life, harsh, cruel as it may seem.