Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 (edited) This is likely to get some strong opinions, so I am putting this across in a friendly way but... So far Cortes has done a pretty good job, he has invested well and in the correct areas and although he has made decisions that have been unpopular in his reign he has a good record of getting the decisions correct. Everyone knows that earlier in the Season I felt Adkins was out of his depth, and even recently I have been frustrated in some games at poor performances/throwing away games (Sunderland and Stoke). Adkins was not THAT good a manager (although he seemed a good man) and we were only 3 points outside the relegation area after spending £30m in the summer. Perhaps we should trust in the decision that Cortese has made, does he not deserve that? Yes, it seems harsh and ill timed but perhaps his stewardship of the club so far means that we should trust in his decisions and judge at the end of the season. Edited 21 January, 2013 by Dibden Purlieu Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 I agree to an extent.....I thought the club SHOULD have made a change come end of november...as we were just not that good for the money and quality was had.....even in the last couple of weeks, we were still giving away leads .BUT, we were plucking away.....to say we would have stayed up with adkins is not a certainty at all....he left with us (after saturaday) 3 points above the mighty reading, who we have spent about £25m+ more than.......but changing now (IMO) is mental and I think it seals our relegation....but then I thought nigel would have taken us down anyway .I hope I am wrong and this could be another inspired addition (like adkins was) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Are you saying, by any chance, that we should all move on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 This could be a masterstroke or a serious piece of foot shooting ! I'm praying it is the former, so the benefit of the doubt is his for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Don't like the man, don't trust the man if he had his way he would have statue of Ted removed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 (edited) Ultimately Cortese will be accountable for the decision. Until now he has made a majority of good decisions so we will see. He wants us to be the best we can I don't doubt that. If he thinks this will help then thats his motivation, not to **** people off. He wants success, not mediocrity - we dont know precise targets for this season but to his judgement must be below them. Lets see how it goes. Edited 21 January, 2013 by Saint Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 January, 2013 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Don't like the man, don't trust the man if he had his way he would have statue of Ted removed! What evidence have you got for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Bald_Si Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Time will tell. Like it or not, got to give it a chance. I'm not quite sure how you would define "success" for the new chap based on the remaining last 16 games of this season, so it's difficult to judge. Tell you what though, if he takes us down, it will have been the wrong decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Classis case though of it being difficult to diffrentiate between 'multiple' issues in this case - which kind of makes it difficult. You have: 1) Was he right to replace Adkins? 2) Was the method appropriate? 3) was the timing appropriate? 4) Is the choice of MP appropriate? 5) Is MP better for implementation of the plan? 6) Is the 'plan' achievable/realisitic as we do not have any idea as to whether the finances are there to implement? I think this is why it's hard to make a black or white decision. Whatever he is like as a person, the fact remains the club has progressed from day one - and in no small part to the decisions he has made - I guess most fans WANT to trust hiim and applaud him for that, but find it difficult to reconcile that success if the price for it is some of the apparently 'ruthless' decsions that have been made to get there. Not an easy one to figure out. At the end of the day, will depend on what individuals want from their club and how accepting they are of the need for difficult decisions in football - which do happen all the time. Big prolem also with the way the media portray it - they are not wrong in describing the decision as they have done, cold calculating ruthless etc - but it irks me that they are such hypocrits - as they switch seemlessly to the ads for bookies sack race odds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 What I would like to see is a thorough evaluation of the finances of Southampton based on a pessimistic scenario of getting relegated. There are reliable reports that Cortese has loaded £20m+ of debt onto the Club and assigned future ticket sales to fund it. For the statement at the top of the thread "Cortese has invested well" to be justified, it would have to be on the basis that any debt could be funded in the short to long term based on scenarios that include relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_sinner Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 the change was out of nowhere but was made swiftly and decisively after weeks/months of Cortese working in the background. The decision to sack Nigel was definitely made before Christmas with Pochettino saying he'd been watching the team for weeks at his press conference. Cortese got it right when he sacked Pardew and appointed Nigel so who's to say he hasnt got it right again? A monkey could have got us out of league 1 with that budget and Nigel nearly didnt get us promoted to the premiership nearly blowing it at the end. Is Nigel the right man to take us forward? Absolutely not and I think he should have been replaced in the summer At least we aren't having to unsettle the squad further with a caretaker manager! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 I would agree that based on past decisions Cortese deserves some benefit of the doubt, I mean he;s no Venky's he done most thing s right for the club moving forward. Pochettino maybe an improvement on Adkins in the long run but who knows. However it's going to take a lot to convince me that the timing of this decision was correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Saint Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Only time will tell, but I think he could have handled the current situation much better. We had no reason to believe that we would be relegated under Nigel. In fact we are something like 9th in the form table at the moment. Therefore, if Cortese wanted a change, then why not wait until the end of the season? Less haste.....more speed. Now he has created enormous uncertainty, with the threat of relegation only enhanced. He is a driven individual for sure, but he has taken a huge risk. That is not good management. It may pay off, but I have the feeling that it won't. It is a really, really big gamble. One that didn't need to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PercyR Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 only time will tell, but i think he could have handled the current situation much better. We had no reason to believe that we would be relegated under nigel. In fact we are something like 9th in the form table at the moment. Therefore, if cortese wanted a change, then why not wait until the end of the season? Less haste.....more speed. Now he has created enormous uncertainty, with the threat of relegation only enhanced. He is a driven individual for sure, but he has taken a huge risk. That is not good management. It may pay off, but i have the feeling that it won't. It is a really, really big gamble. One that didn't need to be made. this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 This is likely to get some strong opinions, so I am putting this across in a friendly way but... So far Cortes has done a pretty good job, he has invested well and in the correct areas and although he has made decisions that have been unpopular in his reign he has a good record of getting the decisions correct. Everyone knows that earlier in the Season I felt Adkins was out of his depth, and even recently I have been frustrated in some games at poor performances/throwing away games (Sunderland and Stoke). Adkins was not THAT good a manager (although he seemed a good man) and we were only 3 points outside the relegation area after spending £30m in the summer. Perhaps we should trust in the decision that Cortese has made, does he not deserve that? Yes, it seems harsh and ill timed but perhaps his stewardship of the club so far means that we should trust in his decisions and judge at the end of the season. Does it sadden you to support a club that treats people like that? Automatic back to back promotions from League one to Premiership has I think only been achieved by Norwich and you think that he is not a good manager. Who spent the £30m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 The one thing Cortese got right is that he had found Adkins replacement before he fired him. But to disrupt team morale at this point just seems to be stupid. He will need to beat Everton tonight to turn around the dip in morale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Only time will tell, but I think he could have handled the current situation much better. We had no reason to believe that we would be relegated under Nigel. In fact we are something like 9th in the form table at the moment. Therefore, if Cortese wanted a change, then why not wait until the end of the season? Less haste.....more speed. Now he has created enormous uncertainty, with the threat of relegation only enhanced. He is a driven individual for sure, but he has taken a huge risk. That is not good management. It may pay off, but I have the feeling that it won't. It is a really, really big gamble. One that didn't need to be made. See. We may have been 9th in the form table but still only 3 points from 2nd from bottom. And have been on a run of home games that was very favourable and still gave away points in those. To say we would have stayed up with Adkins is daft. It was hugely in the balance. However, if we go down under the new man then it would be a disaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 The one thing Cortese got right is that he had found Adkins replacement before he fired him. But to disrupt team morale at this point just seems to be stupid. He will need to beat Everton tonight to turn around the dip in morale. What dip in morale??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Have you not noticed a slightly different morale in the fan base between the 2-2 draw with Chelsea and now? I think you probably have. I thought he was on about the players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 This is likely to get some strong opinions, so I am putting this across in a friendly way but... So far Cortes has done a pretty good job, he has invested well and in the correct areas and although he has made decisions that have been unpopular in his reign he has a good record of getting the decisions correct. Everyone knows that earlier in the Season I felt Adkins was out of his depth, and even recently I have been frustrated in some games at poor performances/throwing away games (Sunderland and Stoke). Adkins was not THAT good a manager (although he seemed a good man) and we were only 3 points outside the relegation area after spending £30m in the summer. Perhaps we should trust in the decision that Cortese has made, does he not deserve that? Yes, it seems harsh and ill timed but perhaps his stewardship of the club so far means that we should trust in his decisions and judge at the end of the season. I think your comments on NA are a bit strong; everyone is entitled to a bit of a learning curve. But completely agree about Cortese. And I note that as people have clamed down and thought about it, more and more are adopting the same position on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musesaint Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 What Cortese has done, and the manner in which he has done it, is about a subtle as an atom bomb. However, what we do not need now is division and animosity. Controversial for many though Cortese may be, it cannot be disputed that he has consistently been prepared to act decisively (and often ruthlessly) when the interests of the club require. Some may not like his decisions and the way he implements them but he has more often than not been proven right when others have been wrong. The more I read about Pochettino the more I think that Cortese may just have pulled off a blinder. He is a man who makes decisions on what he considers to be in the Club's best interests. He is not interested in popularity. We've all had a weekend to calm down and to reflect on what's happened. After Friday’s events several things are obvious. Firstly, no amount of ranting and protesting today will make one iota of difference to either Cortese or, more importantly, to what has happened. The decision isn’t going to be reversed. We are where we are. Secondly, we all need to reflect on the fact Saints remain (with or without Nigel Adkins) at a potentially pivotal point in our season. What happens in the next month or so is likely to determine the future of Saints in the Premier League – not just this season but potentially long beyond. If we stay up this season there is every reason to believe the future for the club is bright – very bright indeed. If we go down, the majority of our best players will leave and no one would criticise many of them for doing so. If we go down the club may never recover. Nigel Adkins has undoubtedly be dealt with very harshly and, at a personal level, I feel truly sorry for him. However, Cortese (conroversial though he may be) has consistently shown that hard decisions made in the interests of the club often prove right in the long term and are more important than individuals. So tonight I will be at SMS and I will join in the early “One Nigel Adkins” chants - because the man deserves recognition and respect for what he has done for our club. Beyond that, however, I will get behind our players, our club and our - and I stress the word "our" - new manager. I'm not going to rant against Cortese. We need three points today. Let’s not undermine the chances of our getting them by tearing ourselves apart in full view of the national media whilst waving white hankies! We are better than Chelski - and we have far fewer points to squander! Cortese may yet prove not to be the igotistical dictator he is made out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 My criticism isn't so much about whether I think it'll succeed or fail, just about the depressing end to any integrity, loyalty or gratitude in football. Some seem fine with that, so I hope they don't moan when it comes back to bite us with players, managers etc in the future. I just wanted to support something more than a desperate Man City/Chelsea shell of a club. Welcome to English football in the 21st Century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Are you saying, by any chance, that we should all move on? Move on from asking people to stop moving on FFS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggers Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Never true a chairman who puts his own photograph all over the front page of a match day programme!! Egotistical and arrogant IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 What dip in morale??? Delldays, it is widely perceived that Adkins had extensive support from within the team. Several openly stated how shocked they were. If a popular team leader is suddenly removed and someone unfamiliar to them takes over, it does cuase a dip in morale. The question is how short will be the dip. A win tonight would remove that dip and help players move on ... the same with supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 People understand when someone is sacked for poor performance. But when it is not done for those reasons the new appointment and the decision taker are tainted by the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Delldays, it is widely perceived that Adkins had extensive support from within the team. Several openly stated how shocked they were. If a popular team leader is suddenly removed and someone unfamiliar to them takes over, it does cuase a dip in morale. The question is how short will be the dip. A win tonight would remove that dip and help players move on ... the same with supporters.but managers coming and going is part of the game....like it or not...pardew went and all the talk about players leaving yet we went on and smashed the 2nd half of the season and then the season after...nearly all of our squad, this would be another managerial change....pardew left, adkins left....many were here before pardew............I doubt (i hope not) many are sulking or upset...they will just get on with it like they have done before and will do in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggers Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Why is it that the people on the forum who are keen to protest write of their own feelings and those who do not want to protest spend their time telling everyone else how they should be acting. Everyone to their own. If your unhappy you've got just as much right to show it as those who want to move on. - Unless of course some of us are superior and always know best ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Delldays, it is widely perceived that Adkins had extensive support from within the team. Several openly stated how shocked they were. If a popular team leader is suddenly removed and someone unfamiliar to them takes over, it does cuase a dip in morale. It might also put a couple of players on their toes. There is one in particular I am thinking of (Ramirez) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Oh come on, let's face it, we are in a horrible dilemna. We loved Adkins the man, many questioned Adkins the Manager in differing levels of severity. BUT the one thing we are united on is that his sacking was poorly handled and at a ridiculous time, and has placed us at great risk for the rest of this season. BUT, and this is the Dliemna, on the field of play, the decisions made (TO DATE) have produced results beyond our craziest dreams from when we were 22nd in L1. Sure we don't like the MLT issue, we don't like the Programme Sellers, Ticket Tax and Car Park charges. Oh and HOW we hated the Insane sacking of Pardew. What is scrambling my head more than usual is that this new insane decision might work out for the best. As a Saints fan I hope it does. As a human being that believes in doing the right thing. I hate it and I might end up hating myself IF everything works out for the better and it turns out to have been a masterstroke. GODDAMIT I hate football at times So yeah DPS I hate the fact that I think I agree with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Does it sadden you to support a club that treats people like that? Automatic back to back promotions from League one to Premiership has I think only been achieved by Norwich and you think that he is not a good manager. Who spent the £30m? Whilst I am as unhappy as everyone else with Fridays happenings, you have to be realistic. You build a team to do a job. Once that job is done, you build a team for the next job. This is why the players that got you promoted to the Prem are not always the players to keep you there. How often has it been said on here "he`ll do a job in the Championship but is not good enough for the Prem?" Surely this can apply to players AND managers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topcat Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 but managers coming and going is part of the game....like it or not...pardew went and all the talk about players leaving yet we went on and smashed the 2nd half of the season and then the season after...nearly all of our squad, this would be another managerial change....pardew left, adkins left....many were here before pardew............I doubt (i hope not) many are sulking or upset...they will just get on with it like they have done before and will do in the future After Pardew left the team's performance did slump for 5 games and we picked up just 1 point in 5 games*. A slump like that would probably bury us in the PL as we could not expect to then get from 11 remaining games, 4 wins and 3 draws. * Adkins in charge for just 3, 2 losses and a draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Why is it that the people on the forum who are keen to protest write of their own feelings and those who do not want to protest spend their time telling everyone else how they should be acting. Everyone to their own. If your unhappy you've got just as much right to show it as those who want to move on. - Unless of course some of us are superior and always know best ;-) I won`t be protesting - mainly because I know that it won`t change anything and it will be like water off a ducks back to Mr Cortese. Others should do as they see fit, but it should not affect the teams performance tonight. We need three points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 This is likely to get some strong opinions, so I am putting this across in a friendly way but... So far Cortes has done a pretty good job, he has invested well and in the correct areas and although he has made decisions that have been unpopular in his reign he has a good record of getting the decisions correct. Everyone knows that earlier in the Season I felt Adkins was out of his depth, and even recently I have been frustrated in some games at poor performances/throwing away games (Sunderland and Stoke). Adkins was not THAT good a manager (although he seemed a good man) and we were only 3 points outside the relegation area after spending £30m in the summer. Perhaps we should trust in the decision that Cortese has made, does he not deserve that? Yes, it seems harsh and ill timed but perhaps his stewardship of the club so far means that we should trust in his decisions and judge at the end of the season. I honestly feel that that sums up the situation If Adkins had come across as a PITA to us supporters, and we were losing points that we should have won, then everyone would have been calling for a change The problem was, that Adkins came across as a NICE GUY Where Cortese is vastly different from most of us can be summed up by "there is no room for sentiment in Business" ..... SUCCESSFUL Business especially With time for reflection, I am now of the opinion that this change of Manager was perhaps unavoidable, though the manner in which it transpired was not to our taste. To Cortese, it was BUSINESS ... in his eyes for the benefit of Southampton Football Club ..... Remember the Godfather ??... " Tell Michael it was not personnal ... it was simply Business " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Oh come on, let's face it, we are in a horrible dilemna. We loved Adkins the man, many questioned Adkins the Manager in differing levels of severity. BUT the one thing we are united on is that his sacking was poorly handled and at a ridiculous time, and has placed us at great risk for the rest of this season. BUT, and this is the Dliemna, on the field of play, the decisions made (TO DATE) have produced results beyond our craziest dreams from when we were 22nd in L1. Sure we don't like the MLT issue, we don't like the Programme Sellers, Ticket Tax and Car Park charges. Oh and HOW we hated the Insane sacking of Pardew. What is scrambling my head more than usual is that this new insane decision might work out for the best. As a Saints fan I hope it does. As a human being that believes in doing the right thing. I hate it and I might end up hating myself IF everything works out for the better and it turns out to have been a masterstroke. GODDAMIT I hate football at times So yeah DPS I hate the fact that I think I agree with you Pretty much spot on - IMHO the only way to deal with that inner turmoil is to stand back a moment and reliase that although everyone likes to attach teh hugest significance to being fan and thus demonstrate their superior uberfaness - emotionally and physically entwined with the club, the reality is we are talking about a sport, game, football and a football club. We are talking about people who earn Millions BECAUSE it is a business and the ruthlessness and lack of sentimentality within the game go hand in hand with that. Nigel is not now destitute like some Dickensian Pauper, forced into the workhouse by some evil top hatted Scrooge... he has earned good money for a good job and improved his status as a result - It naturally appear harsh by our standards, and made worse by the fact he is such a decent guy within a monster of a business - a sharp contrast to most - but lets not kid ourselves that we are witnessnessing some sort of tragedy in human terms - there are plenty of those that happen everyday and get little of the media's time. Sometimes these things DO need to be put in a more realistic perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 but managers coming and going is part of the game....like it or not...pardew went and all the talk about players leaving yet we went on and smashed the 2nd half of the season and then the season after...nearly all of our squad, this would be another managerial change....pardew left, adkins left....many were here before pardew............I doubt (i hope not) many are sulking or upset...they will just get on with it like they have done before and will do in the future On pardew's removal, worth asking whether the fallout was seen in Wilkins brief reign? It wasn't just or even that he was a s**t manager but he had to deal with all the aggro, confusion and uncertainty that came with quite a brutal decision by NC. Adkins was fortunate that by the time he joined some of the more raw wounds had begun to heal. Still remember the atmosphere in the JPT cup against Swindon and the run thereafter - for those who say you can seperate support for the club and anger with the board, think back to that period, not Adkins arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 21 January, 2013 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2013 After Pardew left the team's performance did slump for 5 games and we picked up just 1 point in 5 games*. A slump like that would probably bury us in the PL as we could not expect to then get from 11 remaining games, 4 wins and 3 draws. * Adkins in charge for just 3, 2 losses and a draw. Looking at out upcoming games I don't think it would... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 It might also put a couple of players on their toes. There is one in particular I am thinking of (Ramirez) If the truth were known, it could well be the fact that he was not being played in the manner that he was told he would be played, that convinced Don Cortese that he had to make a Managerial change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 (edited) This is likely to get some strong opinions, so I am putting this across in a friendly way but... So far Cortese has done a pretty good job, he has invested well and in the correct areas and although he has made decisions that have been unpopular in his reign he has a good record of getting the decisions correct. Everyone knows that earlier in the Season I felt Adkins was out of his depth, and even recently I have been frustrated in some games at poor performances/throwing away games (Sunderland and Stoke). Adkins was not THAT good a manager (although he seemed a good man) and we were only 3 points outside the relegation area after spending £30m in the summer. Perhaps we should trust in the decision that Cortese has made, does he not deserve that? Yes, it seems harsh and ill timed but perhaps his stewardship of the club so far means that we should trust in his decisions and judge at the end of the season. I think that is a sound assessment Dibden, I'm concerned that our affection for Nigel Adkins and his almost unique achievement with back to back promotions had blinded us to some of the shortcomings that we have seen this season. AfterScunny, he did well when we were in L1, and to everyone's surprise last season's promotion but it takes a certain mindset to cope with rapid responsibility. Almost all of our squad were new to the Prem. (as was NA himself)...and Rickie Lambert echoed the reaction of many players when he admitted that they were " shell-shocked " by the seasons start- even if it was hard with those first few fixtures. There were obviously some mistakes, and it was apparant that not every " buy " was his choice but a Cortese / Read choice. However, Nigel's " loyalty " to some players outweighed his judgement in some situations. I made the point on many occasions last year ...even before promotion, that almost every Prem.side had at least ONE international keeper on the books and some even had TWO..whereas we continued with KD (someone I respect for staying with us when things were at their worst)... but he is not Prem. standard, and nor is Fox, Hooiveld or Davis. It comes hard to criticise a man who has provided so much success and entertainment for fans in the last 3 years, and I'm sure some other clubs may have stuck with him to the bitter end.. Cortese obviously saw beyond the possibility of losing the last game and being relegated. Sadly, his misunderstanding of fan reaction /good PR ..has soured the managerial changeover. Cortese (in his own way) has a greater vision for the club - even if most fans don't seem to share it...and speaking as a fan of over 50 years standing, I have to say that one FA Cup win 36 years ago and a couple of promotions leading to a survival struggle nearly every season for over 20 years - doesn't exactly reek of success in this League. Perhaps our perception of " success " (as Dave Jones said) after the last game in " the Great Escape season " is ..merely to survive. Maybe..British managers aren't suited to winning Euro titles?. Nicola Cortese seems to think otherwise. Of course Man.U is an exception, but the number of British managers in the Prem. can almost be counted on the fingers of one hand - and is one less since Friday. Foreign managers seem to dominate.. and have most success. Most Prem.sides struggle to field half a side of " home-grown " players and we will see a few more " imports " before the end of the window. I expect to see some " experience " swiftly introduced into the squad to stabilise / encourage our younger talents, but because we don't happen to know the merits of foreign personnel, doesn't mean they are a bad investment, whether they be coaches or players. I hope /expect Saints to survive this season, and if it's with Pochettino in charge, then it can be no worse than we might have expected with NA. Edited 21 January, 2013 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbob40 Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 I worked up North in an office training up in my chosen profession. I came home from lunch to be told that the chap I had shared a room for a year had been axed and had been "black bagged" that lunchtime (i.e. put your personal stuff in this black bag and accompany the nice man in a uniform out of the premises and never return, no farewells no nothing). Bizarrely all that was left when he had gone was his work shoes left in the bin. Initally I thought that he may have spontaneously combusted which would have been quite cool..... Since then I have seen numerous cold hearted and often ridiculous decisions in my various working environments. On balance there have probably been as many "face doesnt fit" as competancy decisions. I think this is more a face doesn't fit /(NC/NA rapport) decision which means the press are probably barking up the wrong tree when they bring up NAs record. A sad and sorry affair but we all need to move on these things happen in all walks of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 I think that is a sound assessment Dibden, I'm concerned that our affection for Nigel Adkins and his almost unique achievement with back to back promotions had blinded us to some of the shortcomings that we have seen this season. AfterScunny, he did well when we were in L1, and to everyone's surprise last season's promotion but it takes a certain mindset to cope with rapid responsibility. Almost all of our squad were new to the Prem. (as was NA himself)...and Rickie Lambert echoed the reaction of many players when he admitted that they were " shell-shocked " by the seasons start- even if it was hard with those first few fixtures. There were obviously some mistakes, and it was apparant that not every " buy " was his choice but a Cortese / Read choice. However, Nigel's " loyalty " to some players outweighed his judgement in some situations. I made the point on many occasions last year ...even before promotion, that almost every Prem.side had at least ONE international keeper on the books and some even had TWO..whereas we continued with KD (someone I respect for staying with us when things were at their worst)... but he is not Prem. standard, and nor is Fox, Hooiveld or Davis. It comes hard to criticise a man who has provided so much success and entertainment for fans in the last 3 years, and I'm sure some other clubs may have stuck with him to the bitter end.. Cortese obviously saw beyond the possibility of losing the last game and being relegated. Sadly, his misunderstanding of fan reaction /good PR ..has soured the managerial changeover. Cortese (in his own way) has a greater vision for the club - even if most fans don't seem to share it...and speaking as a fan of over 50 years standing, I have to say that one FA Cup win 36 years ago and a couple of promotions leading to a survival struggle nearly every season for over 20 years - doesn't exactly reek of success in this League. Perhaps our perception of " success " (as Dave Jones said) after the last game in " the Great Escape season " is ..merely to survive. Maybe..British managers aren't suited to winning Euro titles?. Nicola Cortese seems to think otherwise. Of course Man.U is an exception, but the number of British managers in the Prem. can almost be counted on the fingers of one hand - and is one less since Friday. Foreign managers seem to dominate.. and have most success. Most Prem.sides struggle to field half a side of " home-grown " players and we will see a few more " imports " before the end of the window. I expect to see some " experience " swiftly introduced into the squad to stabilise / encourage our younger talents, but because we don't happen to know the merits of foreign personnel, doesn't mean they are a bad investment, whether they be coaches or players. I hope /expect Saints to survive this season, and if it's with Pochettino in charge, then it can be no worse than we might have expected with NA. For me this is waht it is all about - there will be plenty who poor scorn and mock 'delusions' of grandeur and the 'unrealistic' nature of some the alleged 'plans' Cortese has, but why should it be accepatble to simply see survival year on year in the prem as some sort of success? What is the point of supporting a side whose ambition is merely srvival when teh whole purpose of sport is to compete, improve and eventually win? Sure money has made it difficult to the point of impossibility from a logical perspective, but IF we have someone at the helm who is prepared to do whatever is necessary to TRY and break that mould - then should it not at the very least be acknowledged as the 'ambition' so many complained was lacking unde Lowe, is a positive sign? (with the caveat that its not done whilst risking the financial integrity of the club and creating a legacy of debt for the future) 'Laughing stock' - bruised egos as a result of how that ambition is portrayed in the media is ridiculous, if the the very ethos of sport is to be the best you can, then those laughing in the media and amongst the fan base are really laughing at the principles of sport... I dont know whether MP will be able to do what NC hopes he can, we dont even know whether MP is merely the next in line to do a job and that he would be replaced if and when we achieve that phase, but I would rather we have someone in charge who has a plan in the first place that does not involve setting a budget for 17th every season - many complaining right now need to ask themselves if they were in that group who saw that 'goal' as something to beat Lowe with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Anyone remember this fiasco? He's now one of best performers... I wonder if people have the same opinions on what Puncheon was saying now compared to a year ago today... There's probably a reason why Matt Le Tiss hates him too don't you think? People need to stop being so blind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 I worked up North in an office training up in my chosen profession. I came home from lunch to be told that the chap I had shared a room for a year had been axed and had been "black bagged" that lunchtime (i.e. put your personal stuff in this black bag and accompany the nice man in a uniform out of the premises and never return, no farewells no nothing). Bizarrely all that was left when he had gone was his work shoes left in the bin. Initally I thought that he may have spontaneously combusted which would have been quite cool..... Since then I have seen numerous cold hearted and often ridiculous decisions in my various working environments. On balance there have probably been as many "face doesnt fit" as competancy decisions. I think this is more a face doesn't fit /(NC/NA rapport) decision which means the press are probably barking up the wrong tree when they bring up NAs record. A sad and sorry affair but we all need to move on these things happen in all walks of life. Was there also an Elton John CD with "Sandles in the bin " on it ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 I worked up North in an office training up in my chosen profession. I came home from lunch to be told that the chap I had shared a room for a year had been axed and had been "black bagged" that lunchtime (i.e. put your personal stuff in this black bag and accompany the nice man in a uniform out of the premises and never return, no farewells no nothing). Bizarrely all that was left when he had gone was his work shoes left in the bin. Initally I thought that he may have spontaneously combusted which would have been quite cool..... Since then I have seen numerous cold hearted and often ridiculous decisions in my various working environments. On balance there have probably been as many "face doesnt fit" as competancy decisions. I think this is more a face doesn't fit /(NC/NA rapport) decision which means the press are probably barking up the wrong tree when they bring up NAs record. A sad and sorry affair but we all need to move on these things happen in all walks of life. I worked for one of the country`s top housebuilders and this was their style of doing things. Every year at the end of the financial year they would have a cull and you would go on the spot. Sad, but an example of life in a modern successful business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Does it sadden you to support a club that treats people like that? Treats people like what? Like Nicola treated Nigel or Nigel treated Deano, Sharpe and Dan Harding? Because from where I'm sat,they received exactly the same treatment. The person making the decision decided to get someone else in they thought would do a better job. Now, can can agree or disagree with the decision, but all this soft talk is getting embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 Anyone remember this fiasco? He's now one of best performers... I wonder if people have the same opinions on what Puncheon was saying now compared to a year ago today... There's probably a reason why Matt Le Tiss hates him too don't you think? People need to stop being so blind. Any remember how it ended? - Punch and NC resolved it - behind closed doors. Fallings out happen all the time - and with footballers its mostly about contracts and egos - to me this is clear 'evidence' that NC can seek resolution and knows how to go about it when it is important to do so. MLT hating NC is probably water of a ducks back to him - it is ultimately not important to the success of the club, even if as fans we would prefer a resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomobz Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 A good point although didn't Cortese only call him in for talks because of someone from the PFA or FA getting involved (or something similar)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 A good point although didn't Cortese only call him in for talks because of someone from the PFA or FA getting involved (or something similar)? NO idea, but that is what they are there fore to support a resolution between their members and clubs in these cases - so it is still a valid point anyway - matters not who instigated the discussions, only taht both parties were willing and able to find a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 I'm now much more reconciled to the sacking of Adkins. I'm willing to give Cortese the balance of the doubt on this. It will be hard/impossible to compare with any counterfactual of "how would we have done under Adkins" - but as long as we stay up and other "stuff" starts coming good (transfers, player morale etc etc), I'll be content. My worries about Cortese run rather deeper, however. There have been a series of decisions and rumours that seem to suggest he's a bit fruity - disgruntled staff, the weird decision to dispense with programme sellers, the falling out with the Sun, a lot of dysfunctional stuff behind the scenes (useless ticket office performance, screwed up loyalty points scheme, truly odd decisions in the corporate lounge area, that bloke who was apparently denied a season ticket, the poor communication with fans, high turnover of staff). If things are going great on the pitch, this is all flotsam and jetsam. But if things start going wrong, you risk getting into a truly grim downward spiral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 21 January, 2013 Share Posted 21 January, 2013 I'm now much more reconciled to the sacking of Adkins. I'm willing to give Cortese the balance of the doubt on this. It will be hard/impossible to compare with any counterfactual of "how would we have done under Adkins" - but as long as we stay up and other "stuff" starts coming good (transfers, player morale etc etc), I'll be content. My worries about Cortese run rather deeper, however. There have been a series of decisions and rumours that seem to suggest he's a bit fruity - disgruntled staff, the weird decision to dispense with programme sellers, the falling out with the Sun, a lot of dysfunctional stuff behind the scenes (useless ticket office performance, screwed up loyalty points scheme, truly odd decisions in the corporate lounge area, that bloke who was apparently denied a season ticket, the poor communication with fans, high turnover of staff). If things are going great on the pitch, this is all flotsam and jetsam. But if things start going wrong, you risk getting into a truly grim downward spiral. Agree- I had no problem with Pards firing (said so at the time as I felt we had become too one-dimensional and predictable under him). I do have a problem with this decision -as much from a footballing perspective as ethically. The problem is that Cortese hasn't suffered any real setback to date which in his view (and wrongly IMO) vindicates his more bizarre decisions. Of course, he may just have been lucky -a bloodied nose time to time might serve as a decent reality check and remind him of his fallibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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