Why is no one angry at the Liebherrs?

[Smirking_Saint]

Keep taking the medication, what the cufk are you on about

 

Its pretty obvious to most with a braincell

[aintforever]

Despite agreeing in the main to what you have written here I am still thinking that this is a real mistake from Cortese right now, my sad feelings for Nige have started to subside and I realise that I was horrified by his sacking because of the man as a person and not necessarily from a managerial POV, he did well enough with cash in lower leagues but the prem is a different beast.

 

That said, if it was progression that NC wanted, why now ? Why not wait ? Surely summer would be the right time ? For me its a gamble that could backfire right now, and I dont think NC is silly enough to gamble so much for survival, it could be three things in my eyes.

 

1. Adkins knew the writing was on the wall, started looking for jobs etc (not likely)

 

2. Poch was high on his list, he got tired of waiting for bad results (excuses) and told NC to put up or shut up.

 

3. A new signing, big name, but would only come with a new man (coutinho)

 

We will see

 

or

 

4. The rapid success Adkins brought this club has led to Cortese thinking this football lark is a piece of p!ss and his dicking about with the manager wont matter.

[Colinjb]

This is what makes me laugh. People seem to think all this happened because of some deep seated love for the club and the cityand couldn't bear to see it go under. It was because they could pick up a club with premier league potential for a snip. I dont doubt that ML may have fallen in love with the club a little once he was here but lets not make out it was brought for any more reason than a good opportunity to make a bit of cash from buying a club cheaply, investing in it and selling it on for a huge profit in the future. i;m not saying that is wrong or i dont appreciate ML's investment, but that is how it is.

 

This does however fly in the face of the usual logic in football.

 

"The only way to make a small fortune in football is to start with a large one."

 

With the plans that have been stated/proposed, stadium refurbishment, european football, rebuild training facilites etc, the chances of doing all that while turning a profit or getting something worth more afterwards in relation to the funds put in would be extremely improbable.

 

Yes, it is more then possible that Markus Liebherr's intent was purely financially driven... but equally it could have been a final hurrah from a dying billionaire. We will never know for sure.

[Matthew Le God]

You think they brought us because they loved the club then?

 

No, I think Liebherr brought us because he wanted to fall in love with a club, any club. And he did, with Saints in the year he was with us.

 

I don't agree with you that he was buying Saints to make money for himself, he already had more money than he could spend, I think he was a very rich man in his 60's (that possibly knew he didn't have long to live) that wanted to have fun with a fortune he had amassed. I think Saints were a play thing for him and it was not a money making investment at all.

[Turkish]

This does however fly in the face of the usual logic in football.

 

"The only way to make a small fortune in football is to start with a large one."

 

With the plans that have been stated/proposed, stadium refurbishment, european football, rebuild training facilites etc, the chances of doing all that while turning a profit or getting something worth more afterwards in relation to the funds put in would be extremely improbable.

 

Yes, it is more then possible that Markus Liebherr's intent was purely financially driven... but equally it could have been a final hurrah from a dying billionaire. We will never know for sure.

 

not many people buy a premier league standard club with a premier league standard staidum and training ground + a load of land (Jacksons Farm) for £13m.....

[Smirking_Saint]

or

 

4. The rapid success Adkins brought this club has led to Cortese thinking this football lark is a piece of p!ss and his dicking about with the manager wont matter.

 

It was more than just Adkins but yeah he did well, if it was the summer I would agree with the change, I just cant now though

[Turkish]

No, I think Liebherr brought us because he wanted to fall in love with a club, any club. And he did, with Saints in the year he was with us.

 

I don't agree with you that he was buying Saints to make a profit, I think he was a very rich man in his 60's (that possibly knew he didn't have long to live) that wanted to have fun with a fortune he had amassed. I think Saints were a play thing for him and it was not a money making investment at all.

 

Romantic bullsh it. No surprise though coming from you.

[Colinjb]

No, I think Liebherr brought us because he wanted to fall in love with a club, any club. And he did, with Saints in the year he was with us.

 

I don't agree with you that he was buying Saints to make a profit, I think he was a very rich man in his 60's (that possibly knew he didn't have long to live) that wanted to have fun with a fortune he had amassed. I think Saints were a play thing for him and it was not a money making investment at all.

 

He didn't look like a businessman at the JPT final. That wasn't a poker face he was wearing. I am inclined to believe this train of thought.

[Turkish]

He didn't look like a businessman at the JPT final. That wasn't a poker face he was wearing. I am inclined to believe this train of thought.

 

That probably happened whilst he was here, but when he was looking for a club and anyone would have done, like MLG says, why not buy one in Switzerland 4th division? He bought a club in England because of the riches on offer in the premier league. No amount of romaticising is going to change that.

[Colinjb]

not many people buy a premier league standard club with a premier league standard staidum and training ground + a load of land (Jacksons Farm) for £13m.....

 

No. They do not.

 

Not many people have the money to maximise the purchase either. My point stands, for them to make money out of Saints, all things considered (infrastructure work, transfer fees, wages etc) will be a massive task and highly unlikely.

 

And the key point is that we will never know for sure why Markus chose us.... We can all speculate and have opinion but ultimately they mean nothing. He is not around to tell us straight.

[Matthew Le God]

not many people buy a premier league standard club with a premier league standard staidum and training ground + a load of land (Jacksons Farm) for £13m.....

 

Correct. But Cortese has said in the past that they wanted a challenge and if they wanted they could have taken a club in the Premier League a small way, but with Saints they could build a club with already good infrastructure from the 3rd tier to where they wanted to be at the top of the English game. It is meant that more money would be available for improving the club, rather than merely paying the previous owners of a Premier League club.

[Chez]

This is what makes me laugh. People seem to think all this happened because of some deep seated love for the club and the cityand couldn't bear to see it go under. It was because they could pick up a club with premier league potential for a snip. I dont doubt that ML may have fallen in love with the club a little once he was here but lets not make out it was brought for any more reason than a good opportunity to make a bit of cash from buying a club cheaply, investing in it and selling it on for a huge profit in the future. i;m not saying that is wrong or i dont appreciate ML's investment, but that is how it is.

 

 

add to this Cortese didn't set up the deal out of love for SFC, he did what he was paid to do, find decent play things and business oppotunities for multi millionaires. No one ever thanks Bruce Buck for saving Chelsea.

[Matthew Le God]

That probably happened whilst he was here, but when he was looking for a club and anyone would have done, like MLG says, why not buy one in Switzerland 4th division? He bought a club in England because of the riches on offer in the premier league. No amount of romaticising is going to change that.

 

A Swiss 4th division club can only go so far. Saints had the fanbase, infrastructure and opportunity to play in the world's most high profile league. As I've already stated, I think Saints were a very rich man in his 60's play thing. Where is the fun in owning a lower league Swiss side with limited opportunity for growth to the highest level?

[GAS]

Had it not been for Cortese and the Liebherr's it is unlikely we would be in the Premier League in January 2013 to be complaining about what seems to be a very harsh sacking of the manager.

 

Had we not had the takeover in 2009, okay we would have survived somehow, but it is unlikely we'd have been in the Premier League, probably struggling in the Championship with a lack of financial resources by this point. Be grateful for what they have given us.

 

Adkins hasn't been sacked because Cortese/Liebherr's don't care about the club. Cortese has high ambitions for the club that he believes Adkins wouldn't have been able to achieve. Yes, today on the face of it it seems very harsh, but Cortese is doing what he believes to be in the best interests of the club to progress to where he believes it can go. Cortese has achieved a lot of what he has promised already, so we should give him some degree of trust that he is doing this for the best and Southampton Football Club will be stronger as a result of his actions.

 

Accuse me of being a Cortese puppet if you wish, but he has been very good for this club. His ruthless streak doesn't sit well with many, but he does have a strong track record and I for one trust his judgement.

His background is finance not football. What he has done at this point of the season is madness. There was every chance NA would keep us in the premiership, which is all that is needed. This new appointment should never have happened at this time of the season and any football person would think the same. imo.

[Colinjb]

This new appointment should never have happened at this time of the season and any football person would think the same. imo.

 

Better to bring a new man in while reinforcements can be made then leave him with someone else's team to work with on February 1st.

 

There is twisted logic to this move.

[aintforever]

No, I think Liebherr brought us because he wanted to fall in love with a club, any club. And he did, with Saints in the year he was with us.

 

I don't agree with you that he was buying Saints to make money for himself, he already had more money than he could spend, I think he was a very rich man in his 60's (that possibly knew he didn't have long to live) that wanted to have fun with a fortune he had amassed. I think Saints were a play thing for him and it was not a money making investment at all.

 

It was probably a bit of both. A toy to play with but the fun in the project is buying a club for £15mill and turning it into one worth 10 times that.

 

In his own words it was "the bargain of the century".

[CB Fry]

not many people buy a premier league standard club with a premier league standard staidum and training ground + a load of land (Jacksons Farm) for £13m.....

 

Of course.

 

I think we are closer to the endgame than some think. This club will be sold at some point in the next five years, possibly the next three.

 

And to that end I remain convinced the Leibherr/Mali/whatever funding tap is off, and Cortese is spending loans and current/future TV revenue chasing his dream.

 

But the end of the dream is not glory for Saints in itself but Cortese flogging "CL ready" club to the Arabs/Chinese/Russians. That's his vision.

 

The Leibherrs are way way back on the back seat now. As long as NC doesn't fu ck it by relegating us, they will leave him to it.

 

So to that end, the Leibherrs don't care about our first team coach.

[Turkish]

Correct. But Cortese has said in the past that they wanted a challenge and if they wanted they could have taken a club in the Premier League a small way, but with Saints they could build a club with already good infrastructure from the 3rd tier to where they wanted to be at the top of the English game. It is meant that more money would be available for improving the club, rather than merely paying the previous owners of a Premier League club.

 

but you said he wanted to fall in love with a club, any club. so why not just buy one in his homeland and save the hassle of travelling? Its just an amazing conincidence that he happened to buy one with a top class set up that plays in the country which has richest league in the world for an absolute bargain isn't it.

[Chez]

 

I don't agree with you that he was buying Saints to make money for himself, he already had more money than he could spend, I think he was a very rich man in his 60's (that possibly knew he didn't have long to live) that wanted to have fun with a fortune he had amassed. I think Saints were a play thing for him and it was not a money making investment at all.

I'd agree with that.

[Sour Mash]

Which is fair enough.

Just you have many fans utterly livid at NC for Adkins going and some want to "drum him out of the club"

 

But he is their man. Always has been and don't see anything for that to change.... Why not have a pop at them for what people say is the disgraceful sacking of Adkins.

 

But no one wants to go down that road... Which I get. Just thought I would raise the discussion

Because they have very little knowledge, understanding or input to any of the running of the club. NC has been allowed to go it alone.

[Smirking_Saint]

Better to bring a new man in while reinforcements can be made then leave him with someone else's team to work with on February 1st.

 

There is twisted logic to this move.

 

Agree mostly but factor is the removal of a man loved by fans and players and replaced with a new guy who though talented does not speak english is strange.

[Turkish]

A Swiss 4th division club can only go so far. Saints had the fanbase, infrastructure and opportunity to play in the world's most high profile league. As I've already stated, I think Saints were a very rich man in his 60's play thing. Where is the fun in owning a lower league Swiss side with limited opportunity for growth to the highest level?

 

but he just wanted to fall in love with a club you said. WHy not make it easy for hmself and fall in love with one on his doorstep?

[Matthew Le God]

but he just wanted to fall in love with a club you said. WHy not make it easy for hmself and fall in love with one on his doorstep?

 

As I said in post #66

 

A Swiss 4th division club can only go so far. Saints had the fanbase, infrastructure and opportunity to play in the world's most high profile league. As I've already stated, I think Saints were a very rich man in his 60's play thing. Where is the fun in owning a lower league Swiss side with limited opportunity for growth to the highest level?

[St Chalet]

Keep taking the medication, what the cufk are you on about

 

Don't agree with everything he posts, but I reckon he is spot on here.

[Colinjb]

Agree mostly but factor is the removal of a man loved by fans and players and replaced with a new guy who though talented does not speak english is strange.

 

Oh, it is one of the strangest clumsiest moves in the history of the English top flight. Yet as I calm down over it the more I can see positives in what has happened, either way, getting off topic for the thread.

[aintforever]

As I said in post #66

 

A Swiss 4th division club can only go so far. Saints had the fanbase, infrastructure and opportunity to play in the world's most high profile league. As I've already stated, I think Saints were a very rich man in his 60's play thing. Where is the fun in owning a lower league Swiss side with limited opportunity for growth to the highest level?

 

It's way way easier to get a Swiss club into the Champions League though.

[Matthew Le God]

It's way way easier to get a Swiss club into the Champions League though.

 

Yes, it would be alot easier.

 

But you'd never be able to compete particularly well as you'd struggle to attract players to play in the Swiss league. You'd also have to buy an already large Swiss side as the smaller ones simply wouldn't have the growth potential.

[Turkish]

As I said in post #66

 

A Swiss 4th division club can only go so far. Saints had the fanbase, infrastructure and opportunity to play in the world's most high profile league. As I've already stated, I think Saints were a very rich man in his 60's play thing. Where is the fun in owning a lower league Swiss side with limited opportunity for growth to the highest level?

 

so actually when you said he wanted to fall in love with any club, what you actually meant was that he wanted to buy and fall in love with not just any club but one that had the potential to play in the richest and most high profile league in the world. and he did it all because he just wanted to fall in love with that club, absolutely and completely not because one day it would compete and reap the rewards of playing in the richest league in the world. Glad we've cleared that up.

[aintforever]

Yes, it would be alot easier.

 

But you'd never be able to compete particularly well as you'd struggle to attract players to play in the Swiss league. You'd also have to buy an already large Swiss side as the smaller ones simply wouldn't have the growth potential.

 

He could buy virtually any sized club he wanted to, it wouldn't need growth potential if he just wanted a club to fall in love with.

[Sour Mash]

so actually when you said he wanted to fall in love with any club, what you actually meant was that he wanted to buy and fall in love with not just any club but one that had the potential to play in the richest and most high profile league in the world. and he did it all because he just wanted to fall in love with that club, absolutely and completely not because one day it would compete and reap the rewards of playing in the richest league in the world. Glad we've cleared that up.

Look, it's just a coincidence he "wanted to fall in love" with a club that was an absolute bargain, with great infrastructure available.

[Pilchards]

Because they saved Southampton Football Club. Your village must be missing an idiot tonight!

 

 

Ha ha spot on.

[alpine_saint]

If NC is just an employee.. As Turkish says and he is proved to be right

 

Then surely he (NC) has a boss somewhere and answerable to someone. Then why does the anger stop at cortese. Why not "drum" the Liebherrs out??? There is every chance they are more than happy with how te club is run and how their investment has increased dramatically over the years

 

Seems odd that they seem completely void of any criticism what so ever

 

Whether some of you think I post what I do deliberately as trolling or not, however hard I might try, I am incapable of posting something as inherently stupid as this OP.

 

Without an intervention from a member of the Liebherr family, we'd have no club to support.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Had it not been for Cortese and the Liebherr's it is unlikely we would be in the Premier League in January 2013 to be complaining about what seems to be a very harsh sacking of the manager.

 

Had we not had the takeover in 2009, okay we would have survived somehow, but it is unlikely we'd have been in the Premier League, probably struggling in the Championship with a lack of financial resources by this point. Be grateful for what they have given us.

 

Adkins hasn't been sacked because Cortese/Liebherr's don't care about the club. Cortese has high ambitions for the club that he believes Adkins wouldn't have been able to achieve. Yes, today on the face of it it seems very harsh, but Cortese is doing what he believes to be in the best interests of the club to progress to where he believes it can go. Cortese has achieved a lot of what he has promised already, so we should give him some degree of trust that he is doing this for the best and Southampton Football Club will be stronger as a result of his actions.

 

Accuse me of being a Cortese puppet if you wish, but he has been very good for this club. His ruthless streak doesn't sit well with many, but he does have a strong track record and I for one trust his judgement.

 

I almost agree with this, but I can't say I fully trust his judgment. Yes, results have been excellent so far and he has made two (possibly three) excellent managerial appointments. However, it concerns me that he seemed to think we should challenge for Europe this season, and it is always dangerous when a chairman with no football background is making transfers over the head of the manager.

 

We have succeeded so far through professionalism and by outspending our rivals, but in this league he may find you can't afford to marginalise/dismiss managers who are doing a decent job. Things will be especially tough if/when we start trying to be self-sufficient

[Matthew Le God]

I almost agree with this, but I can't say I fully trust his judgment. Yes, results have been excellent so far and he has made two (possibly three) excellent managerial appointments. However, it concerns me that he seemed to think we should challenge for Europe this season, and it is always dangerous when a chairman with no football background is making transfers over the head of the manager.

 

We have succeeded so far through professionalism and by outspending our rivals, but in this league he may find you can't afford to marginalise/dismiss managers who are doing a decent job. Things will be especially tough if/when we start trying to be self-sufficient

 

I doubt that, I think he probably thought Saints should be in mid table. The bottom half of the Premier League really isn't anything special.

[Sour Mash]

I doubt that, I think he probably thought Saints should be in mid table. The bottom half of the Premier League really isn't anything special.

How many teams are settled mid-table sides within a couple of months of being promoted to the Premier League?

[Pedro]

How many other people were the Liebherrs fighting off to buy the club, who else was in the background except a few tyre kickers. They put their money where their mouth is and I am convinced they saved us. NC (or whover actually owns SFC) are a million times better than PFC have ever had.

 

I feel sorry for Nigel, his treatment is shabby at best but this occurs every day in big business and CEO's normally don't have a second thought once they have made up their minds for change. Don't lets drive the owners from the club by persistent protesting, we have to be careful what we wish for.

[Matthew Le God]

How many teams are settled mid-table sides within a couple of months of being promoted to the Premier League?

 

How many newly promoted clubs have the 7th largest net spend in the whole of European football in the summer after promotion?

 

Also, in the last two seasons Newcastle 12th, West Brom 11th and Norwich 12th, Swansea 11th all had good mid table seasons in first season after promotion.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

I doubt that, I think he probably thought Saints should be in mid table. The bottom half of the Premier League really isn't anything special.

 

OK I've inferred that, it was Adkins who said it:

 

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/southampton/news/adkins-sets-high-ambitions_34357.html

 

This thing is I just can't believe that a football man like Adkins would be that unrealistic, even if he is a particularly positive character. Top-half I could see but Europe was a ridiculous aspiration, and only served to make him look stupid. It was in no way in his interest to give himself a high target that he couldn't hope to achieve.

 

My feeling is that he was under pressure to match the sky-high ambitions of Cortese.

Edited 20 January, 2013 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Wade Garrett]

People having a go at the Liebherrs are f*cking idiots.

 

Not much more to say than that really.

[Thedelldays]

People having a go at the Liebherrs are f*cking idiots.

 

Not much more to say than that really.

its not about having a go at them as such..but all this anger at NC and yet, he continues to operate in their name..he is their man and nothing to suggest what so ever is going to change that..for all we know, they gave him the green light..if so, then why no questions about adkins being sent their direction....?

 

it was just a suggestion and maybe wrongly worded in the title

[mcjwills]

but he just wanted to fall in love with a club you said. WHy not make it easy for hmself and fall in love with one on his doorstep?

 

Why did Roman buy Chelsea, why did the Sheik buy Man City, why did the other Russian bloke buy into Reading, why did Markus Leibherr buy into Southampton, because it had the potential with the right investment to challenge in the best and most followed league in the world. That's why all owners of football clubs that are premier league bound own them pure and simple.

As for NC's decision to get rid of Nigel, with whom I had great respect, only the end of the season will tell if it's another inspired decision or the biggest faux pas in the recent history of the club. For all of us complaining, if MP keeps us up and have well avoided the relegation zone, the sacking of NC will soon be caste to the annals of history.

Edited 20 January, 2013 by mcjwills

[Sour Mash]

How many newly promoted clubs have the 7th largest net spend in the whole of European football in the summer after promotion?

 

Also, in the last two seasons Newcastle 12th, West Brom 11th and Norwich 12th, Swansea 11th all had good mid table seasons in first season after promotion.

Yep, there's where they finished at the end of the season. We're three places off 12th at the moment, having shown clear improvement after an obviously difficult start. I take it you were campaigning to get rid of Adkins over the last few weeks? As he wasn't doing well enough?

[Matthew Le God]

Yep, there's where they finished at the end of the season. We're three places off 12th at the moment, having shown clear improvement after an obviously difficult start. I take it you were campaigning to get rid of Adkins over the last few weeks? As he wasn't doing well enough?

 

You ignored my first sentence, take the two statements as a whole.

 

How many newly promoted clubs have the 7th largest net spend in the whole of European football in the summer after promotion?

 

Also, in the last two seasons Newcastle 12th, West Brom 11th and Norwich 12th, Swansea 11th all had good mid table seasons in first season after promotion.

[RobM]

People having a go at the Liebherrs are f*cking idiots.

 

Not much more to say than that really.

 

You've missed the point. This thread isn't about the Liebherrs, nor Adkins, nor Southampton FC. This thread is a shot at Turks and an attempt to pull him up on a point TDD disagrees with and thinks deserves public attention in the hope everyone will join in and point and laugh at Turks. It could easily have been a reply to the post in which Turks made this comment, but that doesn't get as much attention.

[Sour Mash]

You ignored my first sentence, take the two statements as a whole.

Not many teams spend £12m on one player, but how many games was Ramirez available for in the first three months of the season (the period it appears NC made his decision). I take it you were posting last week for Adkins to be sacked as he wasn't doing well enough? And you haven't just changed your opinion on it based on following whatever Cortese decides?

[Thedelldays]

You've missed the point. This thread isn't about the Liebherrs, nor Adkins, nor Southampton FC. This thread is a shot at Turks and an attempt to pull him up on a point TDD disagrees with and thinks deserves public attention in the hope everyone will join in and point and laugh at Turks. It could easily have been a reply to the post in which Turks made this comment, but that doesn't get as much attention.

 

eer, no its not

 

its not about having a go at them as such..but all this anger at NC and yet, he continues to operate in their name..he is their man and nothing to suggest what so ever is going to change that..for all we know, they gave him the green light..if so, then why no questions about adkins being sent their direction....?

 

it was just a suggestion and maybe wrongly worded in the title

[Stepgar]

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[Dig Dig]

Yep, there's where they finished at the end of the season. We're three places off 12th at the moment, having shown clear improvement after an obviously difficult start. I take it you were campaigning to get rid of Adkins over the last few weeks? As he wasn't doing well enough?

 

No of course he wasn't, strange that he's now shifting his attention towards our transfer policy which he's just spent the last 6 months or so defending. It's pathetic IMO

[Turkish]

Why did Roman buy Chelsea, why did the Sheik buy Man City, why did the other Russian bloke buy into Reading, why did Markus Leibherr buy into Southampton, because it had the potential with the right investment to challenge in the best and most followed league in the world. That's why all owners of football clubs that are premier league bound own them pure and simple.

As for NC's decision to get rid of Nigel, with whom I had great respect, only the end of the season will tell if it's another inspired decision or the biggest faux pas in the recent history of the club. For all of us complaining, if MP keeps us up and have well avoided the relegation zone, the sacking of NC will soon be caste to the annals of history.

 

You evidently haven't read the whole thread.

[Turkish]

How many newly promoted clubs have the 7th largest net spend in the whole of European football in the summer after promotion?

 

Also, in the last two seasons Newcastle 12th, West Brom 11th and Norwich 12th, Swansea 11th all had good mid table seasons in first season after promotion.

 

Nothing to say on the amazing coincidence that he just happened to fall in love with a club that was a bargain, already had an infrastructure and he potential to play in the richest league in the world, rather than his local team then?