Be very honest!

[modern matron]

We are all sad at what has happened to NA but isn't the reaction a bit over the top?

 

I think if we had lost the last 2 games the reaction would have been different.

 

So own up if you have ever posted on here doubts about NA or discussed or thought it but reacted differently in the last 24 hours.

 

I know I have.....

[Glasgow_Saint]

I can understand NC sacking NA - if he didnt rate him as a manager that is his choice. However i do not understand the appointment of Pinocchio.

 

1) Espanyol fans describe him as average at best - they had 21,000 season ticket holders but in his last year they were getting crowds of 15,000. Thats 6,000 people that had paid but decided not to go.

2) Espanyol fans on twitter say he did not get the best out of the better players and players hated him

3) his record is shocking

4) since he left Espanyol the team has improved significantly

5) his transfers were a joke said one Espanyol fan on Twitter "wasted what little money we did have on below par player"

6) "has no plan B"

7) new Espanyol boss isnt great, but he is better than Pinocchio said one fan

 

Plus Pinocchio cant speak English!!!

Edited 19 January, 2013 by Glasgow_Saint

[The Kraken]

Its two separate points of discussion.

 

1) Was it the right decision to dispense with Adkins at this point in time?

2) Is the appointment of Pinnochio the correct one?

 

Right now I'm going with no, and it's too early to tell.

[Spudders]

Its two separate points of discussion.

 

1) Was it the right decision to dispense with Adkins at this point in time?

2) Is the appointment of Pinnochio the correct one?

 

Right now I'm going with no, and it's too early to tell.

 

I'd suggest the first question should be in two parts;

 

1a) Was it the right decision to dispense with Adkins?

1b) Was it right to be done at this point in time?

[Saint Charlie]

The key for me is that as well as his abilities as Manager everyone liked Adkins as a man. That's what hurts most for me.

[Bearsy]

Can we get some agreement on his name? I was originally Pinnochio but now I'm starting to prefer Pocahontas.

 

I also like Pistachio.

[Spudders]

Can we get some agreement on his name? I was originally Pinnochio but now I'm starting to prefer Pocahontas.

 

I also like Pistachio.

I had heard from Tokyo that you liked a mouthful of nuts!

[Glasgow_Saint]

Can we get some agreement on his name? I was originally Pinnochio but now I'm starting to prefer Pocahontas.

 

I also like Pistachio.

 

Pinocchio is fitting as he obviously spoke ******** to get the job

 

& his self publicised Real Madrid link

 

& he's now NC's puppet

[bjk]

Honestly i believe Nigel would have kept us up.Now i haven't got a clue.The timeing is badly wrong.

[Bearsy]

Mods can we get poll? Pinnochio cos he's Cortese's puppet, Pocahontas cos he's suffering xenophobias or Pistachio cos he's nuts?

[St.Patrik]

The key for me is that as well as his abilities as Manager everyone liked Adkins as a man. That's what hurts most for me.

 

+1 totally agree here

[Window Cleaner]

We are all sad at what has happened to NA but isn't the reaction a bit over the top?

 

I think if we had lost the last 2 games the reaction would have been different.

 

So own up if you have ever posted on here doubts about NA or discussed or thought it but reacted differently in the last 24 hours.

 

I know I have.....

 

 

well yes, of course I have because certain aspects of his tenure were highly criticable. Not going to go over them again and again. He was a reasonable manager but his loss does certainly not justify all the caterwailing going on.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Mods can we get poll? Pinnochio cos he's Cortese's puppet, Pocahontas cos he's suffering xenophobias or Pistachio cos he's nuts?

 

I have the avatar already and i dont have time to change it

[Bearsy]

Fair enough. Good to see you supporting new manager!

[Window Cleaner]

The key for me is that as well as his abilities as Manager everyone liked Adkins as a man. That's what hurts most for me.

 

 

don't know him as a man but his press conferences had become crap in the main.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I can understand NC sacking NA - if he didnt rate him as a manager that is his choice. However i do not understand the appointment of Pinocchio.

 

1) Espanyol fans describe him as average at best - they had 21,000 season ticket holders but in his last year they were getting crowds of 15,000. Thats 6,000 people that had paid but decided not to go.

2) Espanyol fans on twitter say he did not get the best out of the better players and players hated him

3) his record is shocking

4) since he left Espanyol the team has improved significantly

5) his transfers were a joke said one Espanyol fan on Twitter "wasted what little money we did have on below par player"

6) "has no plan B"

7) new Espanyol boss isnt great, but he is better than Pinocchio said one fan

 

Plus Pinocchio cant speak English!!!

 

Wow, I'm convinced. Obviously Espanyol fans on Facebook are the ones you want to ask.

 

*Shakes head*

 

I may go and ask Chelsea fan what they think of Benitez, and let that make my mind up about a Manager.

[Bearsy]

I had heard from Tokyo that you liked a mouthful of nuts!

 

I ain't got no nuts anymore, they retracted inside my body when i saw certain picture in Muppet Shows this morning!

[Glasgow_Saint]

don't know him as a man but his press conferences had become crap in the main.

 

They will be better now as Pinocchio canny speako any English

[View From The Top]

I won't pretend that I didn't have my doubts about NA but to me this isn't about him it's about the future of SFC and, IMHO, sacking the manager in Jan and replacing him with a soul with no experience in the English game& who doesn't speak the language is folly.

 

It's not as if we are sat mid-table and not looking over our shoulder.

[Window Cleaner]

They will be better now as Pinocchio canny speako any English

 

well at least we won't have to listen to the same tired idioms week after week and the avoidance of any question requiring a straightforward answer. Just put up the training ground videos and leave the yap, yap, yap out.

[Mr X]

Appointing Pinocchio (till I can spell his name) is one of the most shocking decisions in the premier leagues history where did it come from I just don't get it unless he is close friends with Cortese this whole set up reeks of the jan poorvielt era of Lowe and we all know how that turnt out the fact he can't communicate with half the team is the icing on the cake! As always happy to be prooved wrong but I think we are favourites to get relegated now the bookies agree

[Thedelldays]

Appointing Pinocchio (till I can spell his name) is one of the most shocking decisions in the premier leagues history where did it come from I just don't get it unless he is close friends with Cortese this whole set up reeks of the jan poorvielt era of Lowe and we all know how that turnt out the fact he can't communicate with half the team is the icing on the cake! As always happy to be prooved wrong but I think we are favourites to get relegated now the bookies agree

 

:lol:

[Frank's cousin]

The key for me is that as well as his abilities as Manager everyone liked Adkins as a man. That's what hurts most for me.

 

I think that is nail + head in one. Adkins has integrity , is a decent honest likelable bloke who we were proud of to have associated with our club - os it hurts all teh more, hich is fair enough. But have to agree wth the OP, the reaction is somewhat rediculous. In some respects the media are worse - Talk Sport are a classic example trotting out the 'disgusting' tagine, whilst only a few months ago taking the silver from the likes of Paddy Power to joke around the sack race in which Adkins was favourite - hypocrissy at its finest.

 

The timing and the nature appear to present a damning picture of NC. But NC does himself and the club no favours by not publically comming out and discussing the decision. Was Adkins aways there to do one job which was promotion? Why keep him on until now if he was always going to be replaced?

 

I can understand the need to give the new guy some part of the transfer window, but surely giving Adkins until th end of the seaosn would have been smarter? I can only assume that there has been a final breakdown in relationship, possibly over the current transfer window, maybe in the ay we attract players etc. Ultimately maybe even a victim of his own success, in that he achieved it so quickly and then at times has struggled as he gains he necessary experience?

 

I just find it a shame though that fans are taking tehir frustration out on the new guy before he has even taken one session... that seems churlish at best and ignorant at worst.

[Avenue Saint]

Its two separate points of discussion.

 

1) Was it the right decision to dispense with Adkins at this point in time?

2) Is the appointment of Pinnochio the correct one?

 

Right now I'm going with no, and it's too early to tell.

 

This

[Scoobysaint]

Life goes on. I was a huge supporter of NA when some were calling for his head. At no point have I ever wanted him replaced. BUT these things happen in football... Adkins left S****horpe for us to better himself, he got rid of our old skipper to Brighton after double promotion to better the team. As Adkins himself says, be the best you can be and that is what SFC are striving for. When NC became chairman we could only dream of transfer battles with Liverpool over players and £10+ million signings. Now we have a new training facility, Cat 1 academy, Premiership football and possibly some more top quality European footballers. NA played a key role in this and will always be remembered for what he did for the club.

Now we move on, support the new gaffer and support the team.

[Barry the Badger]

I do think the reaction to this is interesting, not just from saints fans but many others. It's clearly about a lot more than just Adkins.

 

People are becoming very unhappy with the way football is heading... Football now is ridiculous ticket prices, it's being told there's a £1.50 booking fee per ticket when you're asking for 5 to the same address, it's players on incomprehensible wages, players coming through the youth system and leaving after a few games when Arsenal wave a few quid under their noses, its being told to sit down, it's games being moved left right and centre, and it's stupid unrealistic expectations from foreign club owners, it's fans being treated as "customers".

 

Through all of that, fans are still looking for something to help them connect with their club, we had Nigel Adkins, a talented manager and a bloody nice bloke. Fans could connect to the club because of him, but that connection has been removed with little justification and what are we left with? All the other stuff. Feels like Cortese has drawn a line in the sand and said "this is modern football, how dare you expect to have a connection with anybody at the club, like it or lump it".

[david in sweden]

Honestly ?.....I think Nigel was such a likeable guy and his past successes meant I had more faith in HIM as a person, than some of the players we started the season with ....(my fault / his fault / NC ?)

 

A) There's rarely a good time getting rid of someone, but if you've decided to do it, then the sooner the better and take the flak when it comes....

I think NA's openness and honesty has been his downfall and ours (as fans) for accepting everything that came after.

 

B) .as for the new manager.(I won't insult him by mispronouncing his name) .....maybe unknown to us in UK but has good reputation in Spain...can't judge until w've e seen him in action after a few games.

However, having made the decision to sack Adkins.....it was right to introduce the new man NOW !....means no delay and put him in the public eye from Day 1..

[Faz]

Life goes on. I was a huge supporter of NA when some were calling for his head. At no point have I ever wanted him replaced. BUT these things happen in football... Adkins left S****horpe for us to better himself, he got rid of our old skipper to Brighton after double promotion to better the team. As Adkins himself says, be the best you can be and that is what SFC are striving for. When NC became chairman we could only dream of transfer battles with Liverpool over players and £10+ million signings. Now we have a new training facility, Cat 1 academy, Premiership football and possibly some more top quality European footballers. NA played a key role in this and will always be remembered for what he did for the club.

Now we move on, support the new gaffer and support the team.

 

^^^^This^^^^

[itchen]

Life goes on. I was a huge supporter of NA when some were calling for his head. At no point have I ever wanted him replaced. BUT these things happen in football... Adkins left S****horpe for us to better himself, he got rid of our old skipper to Brighton after double promotion to better the team. As Adkins himself says, be the best you can be and that is what SFC are striving for. When NC became chairman we could only dream of transfer battles with Liverpool over players and £10+ million signings. Now we have a new training facility, Cat 1 academy, Premiership football and possibly some more top quality European footballers. NA played a key role in this and will always be remembered for what he did for the club.

Now we move on, support the new gaffer and support the team.

 

Tend to agree with this. I've never been critical of NA and don't think he has been treated well. I was really angry yesterday. But that's football and one reason why managers get paid such ridiculously large sums of money. He'll have no trouble getting another job and presumably has received a fair pay off. It doesn't make the decision right or fair but only the timing is unexpected.

 

NC, for all his many faults, clearly has massive ambitions for the club and doesn't believe that NA is the man to realise them. Whether he's right about the new bloke remains to be seen. But we move on.

[Dangermouth]

Well. As someone said elsewhere, Pink******** (that one'll never catch on) likes to use 4-2-3-1; keep possession of the ball, create goal opportunities, press high up the field and bring youth through the ranks. For Pinocchio or w/e his name is (I havent' learned to spell it yet ofc), read NA. What they have to bring to the table are one and the same, BUT:

 

NA spoke English (sometimes); was liked by the fans and the players (allegedly) and when you could get sense out of him showed he did actually know about the game. He had also come through his 'rough patch' and the team were doing ok (own goals from Guly aside - sorry, Mr do Prado).

 

But he's gone and Pocahontas is in his place, so ... look above to see what GS had to say regarding what ****ed-Argio (thanks for that Bearsy!) and take it that maybe he's not so great. Ok, he won manager of the year but NA should have got that at least once but didn't.

 

As to 'overreaction'. As those of us who have a few morals (er...I'll name the two or three of ya later ) would say, this is in many ways like a betrayal of our principles as a club and an entity. We would like to think that we're better than, e.g. Chelski, because we treat people with a bit of dignity, etc.

 

Yes, I know that there are 'previous' with NC - getting rid of traditional programme sellers for numpties - but some of us (not regarding that, though, I must add) can see the worth in doing some things to adapt football to the modern age while considering that maybe the reasons we like footy/SFC so much is because of the emotional investment which is a very human way of looking at things (no spreadsheets here) and because we value these things because they are human, emotional and thus are things that raise us above 'animals' (no Leeds fans here, are there? ), blah, blah, blah, sociology lecture over.

 

In short, we and the thousands of posters on the BBC website who are in support of NA (surprisingly high numbers) are showing our class and not overreacting. As of next week, however, we will be positive and make sure we remain a class above. And whoever Nige goes and manages next might well become a 2nd team for some - they won't know what's hit them if Turkish and Co go and visit - poor souls!

[trousers]

'disgusting' tagine

 

Sounds like you went to the same Moroccan restaurant as me last week....

[trousers]

Life goes on. I was a huge supporter of NA when some were calling for his head. At no point have I ever wanted him replaced. BUT these things happen in football... Adkins left S****horpe for us to better himself, he got rid of our old skipper to Brighton after double promotion to better the team. As Adkins himself says, be the best you can be and that is what SFC are striving for. When NC became chairman we could only dream of transfer battles with Liverpool over players and £10+ million signings. Now we have a new training facility, Cat 1 academy, Premiership football and possibly some more top quality European footballers. NA played a key role in this and will always be remembered for what he did for the club.

Now we move on, support the new gaffer and support the team.

 

Amen

[The Kraken]

Honestly ?.....I think Nigel was such a likeable guy and his past successes meant I had more faith in HIM as a person, than some of the players we started the season with ....(my fault / his fault / NC ?)

 

A) There's rarely a good time getting rid of someone, but if you've decided to do it, then the sooner the better and take the flak when it comes....

I think NA's openness and honesty has been his downfall and ours (as fans) for accepting everything that came after.

 

B) .as for the new manager.(I won't insult him by mispronouncing his name) .....maybe unknown to us in UK but has good reputation in Spain...can't judge until w've e seen him in action after a few games.

However, having made the decision to sack Adkins.....it was right to introduce the new man NOW !....means no delay and put him in the public eye from Day 1..

 

Dave, in the vote on the Adkins sacked thread, you stated that it was the right decision to sack Adkins now. Care to explain why?

[Colinjb]

The fact is Nigel Adkins didn't lose the last two games.

 

Therefore his sacking will always be unjust. Any concerns I may have had in the past I eventually repressed due to Nigel being the man who dealt with the players day to day, he would always be in a more informed position to pick the team/tactics then a random fan on the outside looking in, regardless of how bizare they may have seemed.

[Minsk]

Mods can we get poll? Pinnochio cos he's Cortese's puppet, Pocahontas cos he's suffering xenophobias or Pistachio cos he's nuts?

 

Or Ponconyo because he's a c*nt?

[Graffito]

Put Pochettino into Google translate and you get "Little bit".

[Latheal]

He deserved the season at least in my view. There's been times this season when I thought "what the hell are you doing?", mainly with team selections and substitutions but there was enough improvement to suggest he was becoming accustomed to the Premier League and becoming more comfortable with it. I honestly believed, with Nigel in charge we would have stayed up comfortably, especially with some defensive cover coming in and Adam coming back.

 

I think the most painful thing for me is that he brought a level of integrity, honesty and pride to the club. I was proud that we played a certain way, with young English players and an English manager who seemed to relate to the fans. It's been a great journey so far, and he (as well as Cortese, lets not forget that) have been a massive part of that.

 

I've tried to take a balance view of what happened yesterday. From the initial shock and anger, to the dismay of now having a manager who cannot speak much English, to trying to understand the timing and how our club actually works behind the scenes. For example, had we actually won at Chelsea on Wednesday, would Cortese have still pulled the trigger? The evidence seems to suggest he would have. The fact that the new guy has been researching us for weeks points to it only being a matter of time.

 

What we don't know, and what I am telling myself, rightly or wrongly, is what the actual targets are for Southampton Football Club this season. We've all assumed its merely staying up. I'm starting to think that it was a lot more than that. Cortese has made no secret of his desire to be playing in Europe. Whatever we think, he's backed that up with £30m + of transfers. The reality of that spend is that we are only just above the drop zone, below teams who have spent far less and perhaps nowhere near the high targets he may have set. To me, it's the only thing that makes sense. I'm not saying I agree with it, just that I can't understand any other reasoning.

 

Having said all that, the new manager doesn't seem to offer anything Nigel didn't anyway. A lot has been made of bringing youth through, attractive style of play ect, but we were doing that anyway. He'll get my full backing, as I'm a Saints supporter and season ticket holder at the end of the day and he's going to need everyone of us over the coming weeks.

 

Cortese's no show leaves a somewhat sour taste in the mouth. Like I've stated, I can only put it down to targets not being hit. Whether this new guy offers a better chance is open to debate. The rest of the transfer window will be interesting as I believe the club is going to need something to divert attention from the way they have acted and placate the majority of fans.

 

The one positive I have taken from it is that Cortese is deadly serious about his ambitions about SFC. I read some comments that people would rather see us relegated. When we were in League 1, I loved it. In the Championship, I couldn't believe it would get any better. Now we're in the Premier, I don't want to see us leave it. I'd love us to stay up with the integrity and pride that Adkins brought with him but that's not going to happen now. Cortese, evidently, never thought it would. I can't knock him for ambition, but the way he's gone about it has been totally wrong and a lot of pride I've felt supporting Saints - pride that has come from the way we've played and what we've achieved - has been totally eradicated.

[UpweySaint]

I for one said i'd stick with him even if we went back down, he has all the makings on a world class coach and had been improving along with our squad. Even if I didnt think this yesterdays events were wrong and an embarassment for us as a club.

 

I wont presume to tell you how to react but im genuinely gutted, I thought, well hoped Cortese was better then such underhand cowardly nonsense.

[Legod Third Coming]

I've watched this without being able to take part thanks to Virgin Media.

 

As a business, I think our handling of this (objectively) has been outstanding.

 

It's been clinical and effective - and well marketed, with little consideration for the fallout (fans and media wailing about 'longevity, fairness and stability').

 

The reality is that three more losses and half this board would have wanted Adkins out. That is football.

 

I am personally saddened to see Nigel go - he is a truly inspirational man. He is a man of enormous integrity. He is also the most positive human being (outwardly visible) that I recall in any walk of life!

 

But he has clearly been set targets he failed to meet. And that's business. And that's Cortese.

 

The new man has decent reputation when you investigate further (which I have today) - ignore Robbie Savage and the 'he didn't have a great record at Espanyol'. He didn't, but there are mitigating factors.

 

There is no guarantee that he will work out (and it pains my I can't say or spell his name) but here is my objective view:

 

1. The Chairman had a five year plan, we are two years ahead of schedule.

2. The Chairman has appointed three managers - two turned out to be exceptional choices (the third started yesterday).

3. As much as we all love Nigel, the vast majority (and I am among them) prefer watching us win to supporting anything.

4. If the new guy wins the next fifteen games and we qualify for Europe, not a man jack will look back and wish anything other than success for Nigel Adkins but respect that the Chairman made the right choice...

 

 

In life you can be a 'decent' man or you can be man focused on results. Occasionally you can be both.

 

There is nothing to say (other than loyalty from fans and media) that Cortese did not handle this professionally with Nigel.

He is just a very demanding man and that is his right.

Even Chelsea fans would admit that the ten years of 'madness' under the Russian have been their most successful ever.

 

Chelsea, Champions of Europe.

[Frank's cousin]

The fact is Nigel Adkins didn't lose the last two games.

 

Therefore his sacking will always be unjust. Any concerns I may have had in the past I eventually repressed due to Nigel being the man who dealt with the players day to day, he would always be in a more informed position to pick the team/tactics then a random fan on the outside looking in, regardless of how bizare they may have seemed.

 

That assumes he was sacked purly based on his performanace - I dont think he was - I believe as with Pards, that there was always a plan to replace Adkins once promoted - and maybe NCs biggets mistake was not doing it as planned in the summer - either he let sentiment get in the way or could not get the man he was after.

[Steel City Saint]

Loved Nigel and was really sad to see him go. I said in the 'Biggest Surprise of the Season' thread that I thought him not being sacked in late October/November has been a pleasant surprise.

 

I reckon Nigel has, in some ways, been a victim of his own success. We were promoted so quickly we were ahead of Nigel's development as a manager. We saw the result of that early in the season and we saw he was learning and growing recently. However, the chairman wanted results sooner than he felt Nigel could get them and so he's replaced him. I don't like that it was done, I don't like how it was done and I don't like who it was done to BUT there's no point in get hysterical about it. Time to back the new guy and the team.

 

If I am ever fortunate to bump in to Nigel I will shake his hand and thank him for what he did for us, whether we go up or down from here.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Life goes on. I was a huge supporter of NA when some were calling for his head. At no point have I ever wanted him replaced. BUT these things happen in football... Adkins left S****horpe for us to better himself, he got rid of our old skipper to Brighton after double promotion to better the team. As Adkins himself says, be the best you can be and that is what SFC are striving for. When NC became chairman we could only dream of transfer battles with Liverpool over players and £10+ million signings. Now we have a new training facility, Cat 1 academy, Premiership football and possibly some more top quality European footballers. NA played a key role in this and will always be remembered for what he did for the club.

Now we move on, support the new gaffer and support the team.

 

Excellent post - completely agree.

[Whitey Grandad]

Put Pochettino into Google translate and you get "Little bit".

 

I make it 'little hand bag', it looks like the italian diminutive of 'pochette' which my dictionary translates as 'clutch bag'.

[lordswoodsaints]

I had doubts about Nigel from about march last year and I seriously thought he wouldn't last the summer but he did,then from the off this season I had serious doubts about his ability and wanted him gone before it was too late,he has made some strange/terrible decisions but he was on the up and I changed my mind about him.

Tbh I was a bit gutted that he went but that more to do with him being an honest ,likeable bloke who seems to have been treated a bit rough,saying all that we don't know what went on behind the scenes and probably never will.

Today I still feel bad for him but feel a lot better about the situation we are in and I am looking forward to Mondays game.

 

Lets not forget that every manager at some point has replaced a manager that has been sacked after all Adkins replaced pardew.

I'm sure he will be fine and I really do hope for the best for him but we have to move on and only time will tell if it is the right move or not.

I was one that called for his head earlier in the season but I came around to thinking he was doing a decent job.

I'm sure Nigel would want us all to be positive after all he was the smiley king of positivity something which I sometimes lack so hats off to the man.