Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Typicalll illinformed reaction - 1. House prices are not impacted on by most immigration as most rent with alonger aim of returning to their homelands when they have earned (and paid tax) enough to buy in their ****ry 2. Most never stay until pension age - and if they do, they only qualify because they have PAID IN to the system.... pension cost are rising because we have a rapidly aging population and had a period in the 80s and 90s when many higher tax payers retured at 55 and 60.... 3. Social security tends NOT to go up as most young people who come here work - and do not claim. The impact on unemployment is negliable and the levels of immigrats as a percentage of the total claiments is small. 4. Wages are not driven down. I am not talking about unskilled labour - and exploitation of this by unscrupulous BRITISH businesses. I am talking about people with skills doing jobs to the same and better standards than their Uk counter parts. Example: 3 years ago I had a new bathroom fitted. I had 3 inclusive quotes for the plumbing, some minor alterations, tiling and finishing (I had purchased all good and materials) All quotes were teh same in the region of £1500. The only difference was the one froma Romanian guy who would do all himself in 3 days - the 2 british firms estimated 1 -2 weeks depending on when they could get the tiler in and then plumber back to complete. I went with teh Romanian guy who worked from 7 in the morning to 8 at night for 3 days and did an amazing high spec finish. His reason - hes aid he could do 2 fittings in a week and thus save more (AND PAY Twice the tax into our system as the Brits).... I am also talking about nurse, doctors, professionals who expect and receive the same levels of wages as UK folk and pay into teh system - we benefit from that. 1) Frank its obvious more people chasing a house to rent will drive prices up, dont be stupid or naive. 2) How do you know who will stay in 30/40 years? Assume a few will and it will still cost more, dont be stupid or naive. 3) Again people coming here to work of course is fine but people will end up on social security and that will cost us more, dont be stupid or naive. 4) Skilled migrants should of course be welcomed with open arms, who has said they should not? They should come providing there is a job for them to do, you went with a Romanian guy to do your kitchen, fine thats great, wheres is that money going again? Oh right out the Country, so you advocate long working hours for a person and them sending it out the Country to be spent elsewhere? Good one Frank, our services will improve with more like you around..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Only because just like here, its easy to blame our economic and social problems on the immigrants and the weak - well in the words of the great Iris Dement song 'Wasteland of the Free' - ''that sounds like some kind of Hitler remedy'' - If enough people remain balanced and seek out the truth rather than listening to the Right Wing propoganda then it wont happen. Discussion about immigration is welcomed and it is an important and difficult issue - but it can not take place when you have too many with prejudiced and illinformed views on the base don no factual evidence that is spouted constantly by the Daily mail and its ilk Oh the Daily Mail and the like slander, I love it, lets have a balanced view upon immigration, I wlecome it, I am not blaming anything on any immigrant, I would do the same if I was them? You do understand a little of politics do you? What did Miliband say about it a years ago? And this is from a successful immigrant himself with left leanings. Yes lets have a discussion on it if you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 1) Frank its obvious more people chasing a house to rent will drive prices up, dont be stupid or naive. 2) How do you know who will stay in 30/40 years? Assume a few will and it will still cost more, dont be stupid or naive. 3) Again people coming here to work of course is fine but people will end up on social security and that will cost us more, dont be stupid or naive. 4) Skilled migrants should of course be welcomed with open arms, who has said they should not? They should come providing there is a job for them to do, you went with a Romanian guy to do your kitchen, fine thats great, wheres is that money going again? Oh right out the Country, so you advocate long working hours for a person and them sending it out the Country to be spent elsewhere? Good one Frank, our services will improve with more like you around..................... The inaccuracies in this rubbish are obvious - it was a bathroom, not a kitchen.... he paidf tax and NI - more than Brits, he lived local buying cloths, food, car, paying rent etc... all payments into the local economy. If he chooses to save and take money back home - well he has earned the right to do so, as do ex pats who reture abroad and take their savings and cash with them... there is no diffrence - stop being ignorant, naive and reading BNP/UKIP propoganda.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaford Saint Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 (edited) We have an excellent Romanian cleaner...and she now works full time and is contributing to our tax system. She had to wait before being able to apply for work. Fluent in Italian and has a telephone sales background. Her Romanian boyfriend is a waiter in a local hotel. Are they doing a job that an English person could? Yes definitely. Are they stopping an English person from doing them? Definitely not. The English don't appear to want jobs like these. I really like watching people make the most of what our country has to offer English or not..... My wife's former au pair is now married to a millionaire English man and is about to have a child. A yummy mummy....and a welcome addition to our population. Edited 29 January, 2013 by Seaford Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 January, 2013 Author Share Posted 29 January, 2013 (edited) my old flat that I sold in the summer was in a grade II listed building with 4 flats in total.... mine and my next door neighbours were identical flats, large 1 beds...and the one above us was a 3 double bed flat and the one above that was again identical...it used to a a cracking little block to live in...absolutely lovely and full of character... about 18 months before I moved out the tenants of the two flats above us moved out within about 3 months of each other...in their place, 6 sets of couples in each flat moved in the two flats from poland.....that is 12 people in place of 6....3 of these couple had kids....that is 15 people living in areas for 6 (at the most)....the strain on the building itself was very evident.....there were around 9 cars parked in spaces for 2...I spoke to these people, who were by large generally nice..and they were pretty open that nearly all the money they had spare went back to poland....they claimed every benefit under the sun whilst working as "mini cab" divers or work in the local car washes.... fair play to them if our ridiculous system allows it very quickly though,it was NOT a nice place to live...I finally sold my place but I had negative feedback after negative feedback..ALL of which was the quite obvious, total over crowding in the block..... luckily, I found my own buyer who now lives there........ we are all DOOOMED Edited 29 January, 2013 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 January, 2013 Author Share Posted 29 January, 2013 (edited) We have an excellent Romanian cleaner...and she now works full time and is contributing to our tax system. She had to wait before being able to apply for work. Fluent in Italian and has a telephone sales background. Her boyfriend is a waiter in a local hotel. Are they doing a job that an English person could? Yes definitely. Are they stopping an English person from doing them? Definitely not. I realy watching people make the most of what our country has to offer English or not... probably because said english people get everything handed to them on a plate....laptops, bus passes, rent......just spit out a few kids and you have it all..... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4764841/Why-work.html no wonder so many migrants come here oh no, its the sun, you will cry...but lets no pretend that for so long...we have created this ourselves in this country....or those who voted labour generally did. I suppose, because of labour, we as a country are like pompey in a way....have to pay for the big spend and all that Edited 29 January, 2013 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 (edited) The inaccuracies in this rubbish are obvious - it was a bathroom' date=' not a kitchen.... he paidf tax and NI - more than Brits, he lived local buying cloths, food, car, paying rent etc... all payments into the local economy. If he chooses to save and take money back home - well he has earned the right to do so, as do ex pats who reture abroad and take their savings and cash with them... there is no diffrence - stop being ignorant, naive and reading BNP/UKIP propoganda....[/quote'] This was raised on Newsnight the other night, stop with the slander as I hate fascists, the bnp and dislike UKIP. Your closed mind as who can speak out against Europe and uncharted immigration is as blind as your false accusations. Right then spending money and sending somewhere is up to the person of course that is true but that does not benefit the Country does it? But that does not make it right does it? Billions have been lost that way, dont close your eyes to say it has not and its lost revenue. You advocate this and I do not, you also advocate a man working long hours well over the European working directive, something you seem so keen to protect, a monetry hypocrite? Perhaps but I wont speculate as thats crude.......................... Edited 29 January, 2013 by Barry Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 We have an excellent Romanian cleaner...and she now works full time and is contributing to our tax system. She had to wait before being able to apply for work. Fluent in Italian and has a telephone sales background. Her Romanian boyfriend is a waiter in a local hotel. Are they doing a job that an English person could? Yes definitely. Are they stopping an English person from doing them? Definitely not. The English don't appear to want jobs like these. I really like watching people make the most of what our country has to offer English or not..... My wife's former au pair is now married to a millionaire English man and is about to have a child. A yummy mummy....and a welcome addition to our population. There is no issue with that at all, not too sure anyone would disagree with people working, British people claiming benefits who can work should be looked at, the Beveridge report was not designed for this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaford Saint Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 probably because said english people get everything handed to them on a plate....laptops, bus passes, rent......just spit out a few kids and you have it all..... no wonder so many migrants come here Sorry young man she didn't. She was restricted from any full time working so she cleaned houses in and around Newbury for a maximum of 16 hours a week. Now that she works full time she has given up the cleaning job but she likes us so she pops in when we are out. We enccoraged her when she felt as if she was getting nowhere and was thinking of going back home. The au pair is a beauty and being Slovakian she had some EU advantages. She taught herself to read and write English within a year of arriving and later studied whilst an au pair. She also worked for 7 years full time and contributed via the tax system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ttDR3275Y Quite honestly, if this is the quality of the clacker that is about to come onto these shores, then i suggest Cameron & Clegg kick the barriers down now and get the decent one's in early. All the *****rs can go to Germany. Or France. Just let in Romainian birds that look like this. I cannot see anyone having a problem with this, apart from British doris's who then have to shape up with the competition. They all look a bit gormless to me. I can't imagine any of them being quicker than a Kwikfit fitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 January, 2013 Author Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Sorry young man she didn't. She was restricted from any full time working so she cleaned houses in and around Newbury for a maximum of 16 hours a week. Now that she works full time she has given up the cleaning job but she likes us so she pops in when we are out. We enccoraged her when she felt as if she was getting nowhere and was thinking of going back home. The au pair is a beauty and being Slovakian she had some EU advantages. She taught herself to read and write English within a year of arriving and later studied whilst an au pair. She also worked for 7 years full time and contributed via the tax system. and those people should be welcome.......and those who are lazy and dont work should not be given a free ride either but what I do object to..is whilst we have our own (regardless of colour/creed) struggling to find work....whilst we have an NHS at breaking point..yet, my mum was advised to go private if she wanted her hip replacement in any sort of time (she cant walk at the mo).....whilst housing is a massive issue in this country...I fail to see sense at all in just opening up the border without any regulations....just seems utterly insane. of course, those who want to come and work, they should apply and have their employer prove why and the wherefores about this proposed job...... until our nation has sorted itself out really.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Sorry young man she didn't. She was restricted from any full time working so she cleaned houses in and around Newbury for a maximum of 16 hours a week. Now that she works full time she has given up the cleaning job but she likes us so she pops in when we are out. We enccoraged her when she felt as if she was getting nowhere and was thinking of going back home. The au pair is a beauty and being Slovakian she had some EU advantages. She taught herself to read and write English within a year of arriving and later studied whilst an au pair. She also worked for 7 years full time and contributed via the tax system. What has her beauty to do with anything? Lets keep this fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 (edited) This was raised on Newsnight the other night, stop with the slander as I hate fascists, the bnp and dislike UKIP. Your closed mind as who can speak out against Europe and uncharted immigration is as blind as your false accusations. Right then spending money and sending somewhere is up to the person of course that is true but that does not benefit the Country does it? But that does not make it right does it? Billions have been lost that way, dont close your eyes to say it has not and its lost revenue. You advocate this and I do not, you also advocate a man working long hours well over the European working directive, something you seem so keen to protect, a monetry hypocrite? Perhaps but I wont speculate as thats crude.......................... Technically it's libel if it's written and not spoken. (Don't you just love a good pedant?) Edited 29 January, 2013 by Whitey Grandad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaford Saint Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 and those people should be welcome.......and those who are lazy and dont work should not be given a free ride either but what I do object to..is whilst we have our own (regardless of colour/creed) struggling to find work....whilst we have an NHS at breaking point..yet, my mum was advised to go private if she wanted her hip replacement in any sort of time (she cant walk at the mo).....whilst housing is a massive issue in this country...I fail to see sense at all in just opening up the border without any regulations....just seems utterly insane. of course, those who want to come and work, they should apply and have their employer prove why and the wherefores about this proposed job...... until our nation has sorted itself out really.... The trouble is Delldays, I have yet to meet a lazy immigrant....I can only speak as I find. I am delighted these foreigners are here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaford Saint Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 What has her beauty to do with anything? Lets keep this fair? She has beauty drive and ambition...and has made the most of what this country has to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Technically it's libel if it's written and not spoke. (Don't you just love a good pedant?) My sincere apologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 my old flat that I sold in the summer was in a grade II listed building with 4 flats in total.... mine and my next door neighbours were identical flats, large 1 beds...and the one above us was a 3 double bed flat and the one above that was again identical...it used to a a cracking little block to live in...absolutely lovely and full of character... about 18 months before I moved out the tenants of the two flats above us moved out within about 3 months of each other...in their place, 6 sets of couples in each flat moved in the two flats from poland.....that is 12 people in place of 6....3 of these couple had kids....that is 15 people living in areas for 6 (at the most)....the strain on the building itself was very evident.....there were around 9 cars parked in spaces for 2...I spoke to these people, who were by large generally nice..and they were pretty open that nearly all the money they had spare went back to poland....they claimed every benefit under the sun whilst working as "mini cab" divers or work in the local car washes.... fair play to them if our ridiculous system allows it very quickly though,it was NOT a nice place to live...I finally sold my place but I had negative feedback after negative feedback..ALL of which was the quite obvious, total over crowding in the block..... luckily, I found my own buyer who now lives there........ we are all DOOOMED Fair enough... but the issue here is not with the immigranst but with the land loard who is exploiting them. The housing shortage in this country is not down to immigrants- its simply down to NO investmnet in public housing for the last 40 years and the sell off by most of the stock by first Maggies and then subsequent governments.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 She has beauty drive and ambition...and has made the most of what this country has to offer. Drive and ambition have nothing to do with beauty, I dont see the connection other than you appear to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaford Saint Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Drive and ambition have nothing to do with beauty, I dont see the connection other than you appear to. She also has a great personality we'll be round to her place once she has had the baby.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 29 January, 2013 Author Share Posted 29 January, 2013 She also has a great personality we'll be round to her place once she has had the baby.... you need to stay away, mush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 This was raised on Newsnight the other night, 1. stop with the slander as I hate fascists, the bnp and dislike UKIP. 2. Your closed mind as who can speak out against Europe and uncharted immigration is as blind as your false accusations. 3. Right then spending money and sending somewhere is up to the person of course that is true but that does not benefit the Country does it? But that does not make it right does it? 4. Billions have been lost that way, dont close your eyes to say it has not and its lost revenue. You advocate this and I do not, 5. you also advocate a man working long hours well over the European working directive, something you seem so keen to protect, a monetry hypocrite? Perhaps but I wont speculate as thats crude.......................... 1. I dont believe it is libel BS, as I did not accuse you of being anything, merely repeating stuff that is quite common in the literature from those organisations. 2. Not sure what you mean here, that sentance does not really make sense - anyone can have an opinion on migration, but it should be an informed opinion given the complexity of the situation and the level of blatent ignorance spouted suggests most do not have an informed opinion. 3. No different to those who save and spend their money abroad as retired folk in France or Spain - the emmigration figures are quite high you know... these folk have paid their tax and NI here, but are now spending their pensions abroad...which does not benefit this country - these things balance out, as with many Brits who work abroad and pay their tax locally. 4. True some is lost, but a far greater loss of revenue is through tax avoidance - at the highest income level, relative to that, the amount sent 'home' AFTER tax and NI is paid is relatively small.... 5. The Working Time directive is designed to PROTECT employees from unscruplous businesses from exploiting workers - something that the UK is not wholly signed up to anyway. I agree with teh EU working time directive, BUT it shoudl also be up to an individual should he chose to, to work as he sees fit - I did not demand this work was done in 3 days - he could have spent 5 or 6. He chose to do it so that he could earn twice as much. The choice I made was because he could give me a start and guarranteed completion date, something his British counterparts could not - and they wanted money up front, which surprized me and there were no materials they needed to purchase.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 6) Thereby taking away a job from someone else, yes your argument really stands up. You mean to say you want your cake and eat it. It should be up to the individual to work their own hours? Err that was before the European Working Directive came in, so you agree with it but you dont? Sorry you are not making sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 6) 1. Thereby taking away a job from someone else, yes your argument really stands up. You mean to say you want your cake and eat it. 2. It should be up to the individual to work their own hours? Err that was before the European Working Directive came in, so you agree with it but you dont? Sorry you are not making sense. 1. Ha ha ha - The classic argument finally surfaces - There would be NO chance of the Romanian getting a job, IF the Brit competition was up to the same standard... its the same with anything I buy, be it Meile Washing machine, or a German car - Had they not beeen far superior, maybe we would still have an industrial base producing quality manufactured goods - but we destroyed that ourselves through strikes and lack of investment... so do you only buy British? 2. Read my post again - you simply dont understand the difference between and employer exploiting an employee and a self employed tradesman deciding how and when he works - I should add, the Romanian chap also mentioned that in addition to having the option to do two jobs in a week, he also used the 'saved time' to spend time with his family at times ensuring a decent work/life balance.... try to comprehend before you reply this time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Heh, all this crap about foreigners stealing our jobs. I suppose they were the executives who moved large parts of their operations overseas, or the shareholders that put money into companies that are known to be outsourcing production and labour to the Far East. You could evict everyone not of British birth and you still would not solve the fundamental problem of the West being f**ked, still wouldn't be able to solve the debt problem and still couldn't halt the runaway train that we call the financial system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 (edited) 1. Ha ha ha - The classic argument finally surfaces - There would be NO chance of the Romanian getting a job, IF the Brit competition was up to the same standard... its the same with anything I buy, be it Meile Washing machine, or a German car - Had they not beeen far superior, maybe we would still have an industrial base producing quality manufactured goods - but we destroyed that ourselves through strikes and lack of investment... so do you only buy British? 2. Read my post again - you simply dont understand the difference between and employer exploiting an employee and a self employed tradesman deciding how and when he works - I should add, the Romanian chap also mentioned that in addition to having the option to do two jobs in a week, he also used the 'saved time' to spend time with his family at times ensuring a decent work/life balance.... try to comprehend before you reply this time.... By taking a job away from someone else I meant he was two sustainable jobs condensed (as you advocate that) into one, thereby making someone redundant (well you by advocating it and him accepting it), so he did 13 hour days 6 day weeks and spent quality time with his family? Try to comphrehend what you are actually writing please. Edited 29 January, 2013 by Barry Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 My sincere apologies. No need to apologise to a sad old git like me. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Fair enough... but the issue here is not with the immigranst but with the land loard who is exploiting them. The housing shortage in this country is not down to immigrants- its simply down to NO investmnet in public housing for the last 40 years and the sell off by most of the stock by first Maggies and then subsequent governments.... Nothing to do with too many people then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Nothing to do with too many people then? Point being that if such practice was illegal as it is in many other EU countries, then it would not happen. One of the attractions of UK s that you can find such housing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Ha hahhaaa - FAIL Read my post again - he had an OPTION to either complete TWO contracts in a week, OR one and then take 3 or 4 days off.... him taking on 2 jobs and delivering on both is the nature of competition in a free market economy no? I am not saying its ultimately an ideal, but its one of the principles of a capitalist society in which we live. So what car do you drive and who made your washing machine? Come on? Its no good responding saying there is no longer a choice unless you have money for an Aston Martin, as teh reason there is no choice is because we were crap at manufacturing productively, despite engineering excellence in this country - the competition killed our industry because it was better - if we get Brit builders unemployed because teh competition is better, what is the difference? My chap did not undercut on price, but on quality of service... right or wrong that is the reality, and as a consumer I dont want to have no choice or have to put up with poor quality just to keep a lazy shiet builder in business. The better quality UK trademen will always have work - its those that cant up their game/quality to the expected standards that will suffer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Frank Competiton did not kill off our skilled manufacturing industry, sudsidies or lack of them did. I can also assure you that a skilled tradesman in this Country is more than up to the task of matching a Romanian one. I suggest you go away, think before you type, realise you follow money, the cheaper lesser option and have contradicted yourself on this, you know nothing of the European Working Time Directive or appear not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Ha hahhaaa - FAIL Read my post again - he had an OPTION to either complete TWO contracts in a week, OR one and then take 3 or 4 days off.... him taking on 2 jobs and delivering on both is the nature of competition in a free market economy no? I am not saying its ultimately an ideal, but its one of the principles of a capitalist society in which we live. So what car do you drive and who made your washing machine? Come on? Its no good responding saying there is no longer a choice unless you have money for an Aston Martin, as teh reason there is no choice is because we were crap at manufacturing productively, despite engineering excellence in this country - the competition killed our industry because it was better - if we get Brit builders unemployed because teh competition is better, what is the difference? My chap did not undercut on price, but on quality of service... right or wrong that is the reality, and as a consumer I dont want to have no choice or have to put up with poor quality just to keep a lazy shiet builder in business. The better quality UK trademen will always have work - its those that cant up their game/quality to the expected standards that will suffer... I dont have a car at the moment and have not thought about getting one to be honest, wife bought a new C-Max on Sunday, I will probably get a 2nd hand something , Land Rover possibly but again I have not really thought about it. Washing machine, I dont know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Frank Competiton did not kill off our skilled manufacturing industry, sudsidies or lack of them did. I can also assure you that a skilled tradesman in this Country is more than up to the task of matching a Romanian one. I suggest you go away, think before you type, realise you follow money, the cheaper lesser option and have contradicted yourself on this, you know nothing of the European Working Time Directive or appear not to. This doesn't make any sense, at least the part about competition and subsidies. If you are subsidising a business to keep it going, then that business is unable to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Heh, all this crap about foreigners stealing our jobs. I suppose they were the executives who moved large parts of their operations overseas, or the shareholders that put money into companies that are known to be outsourcing production and labour to the Far East. You could evict everyone not of British birth and you still would not solve the fundamental problem of the West being f**ked, still wouldn't be able to solve the debt problem and still couldn't halt the runaway train that we call the financial system. I dont think anyone is ignoring the fact that our own house is in a complete mess and yes the majority of our problems we face as a country is to do with the rediculous way we support people for doing f*ck all or overstretching themselves, personally as a side point I dont think people should get any extra help for more then two children, we live in a country with free contraception, more than two should be a choice that you as the parents need to justify... Taking the moral highground on immigration however is just ignoring another part of the problem, smaller yes, but still a problem. And no its not xenophobic as such, it is just realisation that we cant cope. Another real worry of mine is the way that racism is spreading in the country, I see it more often now, its not at a viscious level, more a daily mail level, but unfortunately unless things change it will begin to manifest into something more sinister and that worries me more than anything. Multicultural britain is beginning to make the average joe feel less worthy. I for one dont want to see a extreme right uprising like in Greece but it COULD happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 This doesn't make any sense, at least the part about competition and subsidies. If you are subsidising a business to keep it going, then that business is unable to compete. Tell that to Ferrari, BMW, Ford, the steel industry in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Point being that if such practice was illegal as it is in many other EU countries' date=' then it would not happen. One of the attractions of UK s that you can find such housing...[/quote'] One of the attractions of the UK is the NHS/benefit culture One of the disadvantages is the lack of housing as there are too many people here to sustain them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 One of the attractions of the UK is the NHS/benefit culture One of the disadvantages is the lack of housing as there are too many people here to sustain them And the liberal elite who make the decisions live in a Country lane in Surrey and affects them not other than they get a cheap chef, gardner and baby sitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Tell that to Ferrari, BMW, Ford, the steel industry in the US. Don't need to. Doesn't make it any less true. If they cannot stand on their own, then can't compete. Very simple. I can understand government funding initial infrastructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 And the liberal elite who make the decisions live in a Country lane in Surrey and affects them not other than they get a cheap chef, gardner and baby sitter. You forgot to capitalise Liberal, dune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 And the liberal elite who make the decisions live in a Country lane in Surrey and affects them not other than they get a cheap chef, gardner and baby sitter. Exactly, which is why my post above will probably be ignored as the hoy palloy in Saville row suits just dont talk to the common folk and so will be blissfully unaware of terry tibbs the unemployed brickie from Croydon who is starting to take the 'sensationalist' stories in the mail too seriously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Don't need to. Doesn't make it any less true. If they cannot stand on their own, then can't compete. Very simple. I can understand government funding initial infrastructure. Pap you are a tory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Pap you are a tory. I'm actually thinking of jipping the Labour Party for not being left-wing enough. Guess you like your fail to be epic in the afternoons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 You forgot to capitalise Liberal, dune. Jesus not this again, its boring now, I know you want to be a bit special (you are) about being the only Saint from Liverpool etc etc but there are a couple I know, paplage get over it lad, I have nothing to prove to you and you will never believe me, it aint me brother its you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 I'm actually thinking of jipping the Labour Party for not being left-wing enough. Guess you like your fail to be epic in the afternoons I dont believe you, you are a tory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Jesus not this again, its boring now, I know you want to be a bit special (you are) about being the only Saint from Liverpool etc etc but there are a couple I know, paplage get over it lad, I have nothing to prove to you and you will never believe me, it aint me brother its you. Just admit it. You'll feel so much better when you do. The persona is coming apart at the seams, kid. It was a good enough idea, but the execution has been **** poor. This latest phase, using known duneisms to provoke bored teleworkers like me has gotta be the last throw of the dice. Liberal elite? Ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Tell that to Ferrari, BMW, Ford, the steel industry in the US. Subsidies or not, the Quality of the product still needs to be high enough to create demand for it - British car out put was shied and 10 years out of date which is what killed it. Secondly, as state its NOT about teh cheapest option, I stated clearly there was no difference in cost - the difference was in quality of those providing quotes - all of whom looked liked reputable firms - I am sure teh UK guys would have done a decent job in the smae total of accumulated hours - but could not provide any guarrantees of start or end date - that is a service quality issue, not a money one - read the post before you repsond and if you dont understand, ask questions I will be happy to answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 I dont think anyone is ignoring the fact that our own house is in a complete mess and yes the majority of our problems we face as a country is to do with the rediculous way we support people for doing f*ck all or overstretching themselves, personally as a side point I dont think people should get any extra help for more then two children, we live in a country with free contraception, more than two should be a choice that you as the parents need to justify... Taking the moral highground on immigration however is just ignoring another part of the problem, smaller yes, but still a problem. And no its not xenophobic as such, it is just realisation that we cant cope. Thing is, as you say it is smaller, and the problems were not created by immigration, but by lack of continued investment, global economics etc - I think the point is that in order to diffrentiate clearly between and immigration policy based on teh practical realities versus nationalistic xenophobia, it needs to be consistently applied, not chopped and changed base on underlying factors whether 'home made' or global - some may even argue that a way of dealing with our own challenges is to recruit the best irrespective of where they come from to drive innovation and change... but that another end of the debate Another real worry of mine is the way that racism is spreading in the country, I see it more often now, its not at a viscious level, more a daily mail level, but unfortunately unless things change it will begin to manifest into something more sinister and that worries me more than anything. Multicultural britain is beginning to make the average joe feel less worthy. I for one dont want to see a extreme right uprising like in Greece but it COULD happen NOw I appreciate this is a VERY real concern. However, the issue of racism is and always has been one of education - racism rises with economic downturn and the immigrants become the easy target for the extreme right and this is fed to the populace as its an 'easy to understand' rationale but the TRUTH is our current woes are NOT the result of immigration, but of middle class bankers earning millions from morally questionable banking methods. We simply MUST not use teh rise of racism as any rational for restricting entry - its playing into the hands of the racists. The only solution to the racist rise is education. The issue is obviously bigger than just immigration - watch those 'Kavos' type shows and it demonstrates exactly some of the differences between young Britons and Young Europeans - the mentality of a generation that demands its rights to do as it pleases and feck everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Just admit it. You'll feel so much better when you do. The persona is coming apart at the seams, kid. It was a good enough idea, but the execution has been **** poor. This latest phase, using known duneisms to provoke bored teleworkers like me has gotta be the last throw of the dice. Liberal elite? Ha. He faces a problem though there Pap, Dune was banned for his blatent racist posts... which would sort of undermine any rational argument he tries to make on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Subsidies or not, the Quality of the product still needs to be high enough to create demand for it - British car out put was shied and 10 years out of date which is what killed it. Secondly, as state its NOT about teh cheapest option, I stated clearly there was no difference in cost - the difference was in quality of those providing quotes - all of whom looked liked reputable firms - I am sure teh UK guys would have done a decent job in the smae total of accumulated hours - but could not provide any guarrantees of start or end date - that is a service quality issue, not a money one - read the post before you repsond and if you dont understand, ask questions I will be happy to answer. Really is that why landrover have an 18 month waiting list to buy one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Multicultural britain is beginning to make the average joe feel less worthy. I for one dont want to see a extreme right uprising like in Greece but it COULD happen This is part of the problem though Smirking - the way we use terms like Multiculture to compartmentalise - all of a sudden it Multiculturalism that is part of the problem - which is just a 'nicer' way of saying multi ethic which is the problem, which is just a step away from blaming all our problems on the immigrants. I hate words like Multiculturalism as it means nothing - we a country made up of peoples born here and people who have come to work here, simple. They may bring cultures, religions and habits good and bad in our eyes, but that is where it ends. Whenver someone says, 'but they dont want to integrate into our culture blah blah... I ask them to define 'our culture' - they usually go on about 'Christian country' - which is when I ask them about teh last time they went to church.... the point being that its usually a religeous issue and yet thevast majority in the UK do NOT activeliy embrace their 'Christian culture'.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 29 January, 2013 Share Posted 29 January, 2013 Just admit it. You'll feel so much better when you do. The persona is coming apart at the seams, kid. It was a good enough idea, but the execution has been **** poor. This latest phase, using known duneisms to provoke bored teleworkers like me has gotta be the last throw of the dice. Liberal elite? Ha. Liberal elite has been a saying for years and this dune fellow owned it I suppose? I am playing football at IM Marsh tonight pap if you feel like popping along , then probably to the Fulwood Arms for a quick pint? Possibly the lane, you would not know where I am talking about as you live in Shirley, you still believe I am dune cracks me up because its so wrong you determined though to prove something thats not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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