old_southy Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 If the chairman is choosing the manager, he'll do so with his managerial style in mind. The rapid hiring and firing of managers mean they get very little time or money to help build a squad and inherit any deficiencies or problems that caused his predecessor to fail. Is the best solution for NA and NC to how the team is doing and what needs to improve, the best way to do that and then buy a player to fulfil that role. It is clear that Gaston was a NC signing as well as Boruc, Guly and Papa Waigo. It looks like Fort and Sharp were definitely a NA signings. As long as he allows the manager freedom to do his role, isn't it best that the chairman is active in player transfers ?
jayrivers Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 It is clear that Gaston was a NC signing as well as Boruc, Guly and Papa Waigo. It looks like Fort and Sharp were definitely a NA signings No it's not! We have scouts etc etc.... All been said before. That is all I have to say!
Saints foreva Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 It is clear that Gaston was a NC signing as well as Boruc, Guly and Papa Waigo. Should probably add Mayuka to that list as well.
trousers Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 If the chairman is choosing the manager, he'll do so with his managerial style in mind. The rapid hiring and firing of managers mean they get very little time or money to help build a squad and inherit any deficiencies or problems that caused his predecessor to fail. Is the best solution for NA and NC to how the team is doing and what needs to improve, the best way to do that and then buy a player to fulfil that role. It is clear that Gaston was a NC signing as well as Boruc, Guly and Papa Waigo. It looks like Fort and Sharp were definitely a NA signings. As long as he allows the manager freedom to do his role, isn't it best that the chairman is active in player transfers ? Yes
Saint Charlie Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Lol NA only knows L1 players and NC only knows players based in Italy. Forren must be a Les Reed one then? How can people think up this drivel?
CB Saint Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Who sign rodriguez - was that Les reid's signing? I reckon the catering manager must have signed Tanardi Lee as part of a drive to introduce more asian influences into the food and beverage - hence why we now have Singha Beer
SO16_Saint Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 If the chairman is choosing the manager, he'll do so with his managerial style in mind. The rapid hiring and firing of managers mean they get very little time or money to help build a squad and inherit any deficiencies or problems that caused his predecessor to fail. Is the best solution for NA and NC to how the team is doing and what needs to improve, the best way to do that and then buy a player to fulfil that role. It is clear that Gaston was a NC signing as well as Boruc, Guly and Papa Waigo. It looks like Fort and Sharp were definitely a NA signings. As long as he allows the manager freedom to do his role, isn't it best that the chairman is active in player transfers ? how/why is it CLEAR this is an NA signing? Do we not employ scouts to look at prospective signings? If we had Di Mateo as Manager, you wouldn't even be questioning this... but because its NA - he cant possibly know about a good prospect, can he?
Whitey Grandad Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 The chairman has 100% control That's why he's the chairman.
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 How is it people you have never heard of must be Cortese signings? Surely of the two, Nigel Adkins (former professional, long background in the game, successful Football League Manager) is more likely to know obscure players than Nicola Cortese (Former businessman/banker, new to the game, Club CEO). It seems much more likely the Football man is more likely to be aware of FOOTBALL PLAYERS. Anyway, as has been said, this is a scouts job. This is the entire point of having a network of scouts. It was a stated aim of the club shortly after the take over to install a comprehensive scouting network, as the new administration/management team inherited a club with virtually no scouting network. How exactly do people think Cortese decides who he is going to sign?
Alanh Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 It is clear that Gaston was a NC signing as well as Boruc, Guly and Papa Waigo. It looks like Fort and Sharp were definitely a NA signings.QUOTE] You're going to get grief over this for it's naivety as much as anything else. We, along with every other Prem club have an extensive scouting network who make recommendations on players. We will also be approached by agents and contacts in the game alerting us to opportunities. The transfer committee will decide which of those to pursue based on our requirements. NC will conduct the negotiations. That makes all the players you have listed club signings, not just NC or NA or any other individual!
SaintAndy14 Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Potentially it is OK for the chairman to have an influence in who should be bought/sold but the final decision should always rest with the manager. I guess it is the modern way to have a 'first team coach' like Chelsea do but that shows that most of the big decisions are being made above the manager's head. It may be the old-fashioned way now, but I know I would certainly want full control if I were a manager and not have owners/chairman telling me who I was to sign. Too much control - leave the football side of things to the manager who you appoint as you appoint him in the knowledge that he knows about football.
mcjwills Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 How is it people you have never heard of must be Cortese signings? Surely of the two, Nigel Adkins (former professional, long background in the game, successful Football League Manager) is more likely to know obscure players than Nicola Cortese (Former businessman/banker, new to the game, Club CEO). It seems much more likely the Football man is more likely to be aware of FOOTBALL PLAYERS. Anyway, as has been said, this is a scouts job. This is the entire point of having a network of scouts. It was a stated aim of the club shortly after the take over to install a comprehensive scouting network, as the new administration/management team inherited a club with virtually no scouting network. How exactly do people think Cortese decides who he is going to sign? All the players are picked solely on their stats in FM13 we all know that duh
aintforever Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 The chairman obviously has the final say but the player should always be the choice of the manager IMO.
St Marco Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Pretty sure most clubs draw up a group of transfer targets and it is then down to the chairman to sign them. The question is who are the people drawing up that list? I think the days of a manager doing everything themselves is well and truly over and has been for a longtime.
Professor Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Logically, the manager should identify his targets with an understanding of what budget is available but ultimately it must be the Chairman who decides simply because the manager is judged on team performance, not on budgetary control. It follows that a manager would be willing to spend unlimited amounts if he had the freedom to do so. Communication between the Chairman and the Manager would seem to be the key.
Smirking_Saint Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 The chairman obviously has the final say but the player should always be the choice of the manager IMO. Yup Totally agree, nothing has shown this works better than Dagliesh and his spending spree and the pre redknapp hughes revolution at QPR You are 100% bang on
pap Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 The chairman obviously has the final say but the player should always be the choice of the manager IMO. Unless it is Harry Redknapp.
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Do you think Nicola Cortese should seek Adkins' advice re investing in Swiss/Italian banks? I doubt it because NA probably knows diddly squat about that sort of thing. Call me old-fashioned but I would expect NA aided by his staff and Les Read to ID the players they want (without consulting a man who four years ago had no football background). But having said that, once the player has been targeted hand everything over to NC who would oversee negotiating the price/salary etc.
Smirking_Saint Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Unless it is Harry Redknapp. Yup the man is clueless Terrible manager, terrible choice of players No idea why he gets offered decent jobs
Smirking_Saint Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Do you think Nicola Cortese should seek Adkins' advice re investing in Swiss/Italian banks? I doubt it because NA probably knows diddly squat about that sort of thing. Call me old-fashioned but I would expect NA aided by his staff and Les Read to ID the players they want (without consulting a man who four years ago had no football background). But having said that, once the player has been targeted hand everything over to NC who would oversee negotiating the price/salary etc. What exactly do you think happens ? NC sits on FM then goes on a mad one and signs players ?
aintforever Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Yup Totally agree, nothing has shown this works better than Dagliesh and his spending spree and the pre redknapp hughes revolution at QPR You are 100% bang on Who tells Sir Alex and Wenger who to sign then?
Dellman Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 The chairman holds the money, the chairman works to a budget, the chairman has to balance the books and if he doesn't we get in the mess down the road.No doubt the manager tells him what he wants, the scouts find what he wants then its over to the chairman to negotiate the terms. Simple. What's the issue?
Thedelldays Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Who tells Sir Alex and Wenger who to sign then? you really think he gets what he wants all of the time..?
Dr Who? Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 None, and he will not identify players. He will let NA know what he has, or maybe he will not, then NA will say 'hello boss I think this player would make our team stronger. Then NC will open his cheque book or say no sorry, carry on looking. Of course the manager will have to say why he thinks it would improve the team, and justify the price. Good business practice it is called.
Dr Who? Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 The chairman holds the money, the chairman works to a budget, the chairman has to balance the books and if he doesn't we get in the mess down the road.No doubt the manager tells him what he wants, the scouts find what he wants then its over to the chairman to negotiate the terms. Simple. What's the issue? This
Dr Who? Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 The chairman holds the money, the chairman works to a budget, the chairman has to balance the books and if he doesn't we get in the mess down the road.No doubt the manager tells him what he wants, the scouts find what he wants then its over to the chairman to negotiate the terms. Simple. What's the issue? But a sensible response like this is not what anyone on here is looking for, so you will get very little reply, unless you start bed wetting!
Itchen_block4 Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Who tells Sir Alex and Wenger who to sign then? Nobody, but they still don''t fix the terms of the deal. They are highly experienced and respected and have worked for their reputations for years. Even so, if the chairman hands them a big list of top class players he can use his own contacts to get good deals on, I expect they would follow them up. Cortese has bigger things to do than running round Italy scouting players, so he isn't qualified to do more than broker the deal.
Smirking_Saint Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Who tells Sir Alex and Wenger who to sign then? How long have they been at their respective clubs ? Slightly different situation, a committee is about continuity, they are not in any risk, and like TDD says, they wont get everyone they want.
old_southy Posted 15 January, 2013 Author Posted 15 January, 2013 How big is our scouting network? Does well does it cover the UK? Holland? Switzerland? Italy? Spain? France? Japan?
Dig Dig Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 How big is our scouting network? Does well does it cover the UK? Holland? Switzerland? Italy? Spain? France? Japan? We have an expansive scouting network.
aintforever Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 How long have they been at their respective clubs ? Slightly different situation, a committee is about continuity, they are not in any risk, and like TDD says, they wont get everyone they want. But they wont get anyone they don't want either. The chairman obviously has final say because he signs the cheques but there is no point having a manager if they don't choose the players.
Dig Dig Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 But they wont get anyone they don't want either. The chairman obviously has final say because he signs the cheques but there is no point having a manager if they don't choose the players. Who have we signed not wanted by Adkins? Do you know?
Thedelldays Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 But they wont get anyone they don't want either. The chairman obviously has final say because he signs the cheques but there is no point having a manager if they don't choose the players. i cannot believe for one minute, fergie is as stupid to have paid £7m for bebe......that surely was never a full on fergie signing
aintforever Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Who have signed not wanted by Adkins? Do you know? Don't know, none of us do.
the stain Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 We have an expansive scouting network. Youre just saying that.
aintforever Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 i cannot believe for one minute, fergie is as stupid to have paid £7m for bebe......that surely was never a full on fergie signing I don't for one minute think Fergie is being told who he can and cannot sign.
Dig Dig Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Don't know, none of us do. Still though, it's good to suggest and speculate on the way our transfers work if it suits your agenda.
Thedelldays Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 I don't for one minute think Fergie is being told who he can and cannot sign. i dont doubt that..but I bet some players are bought in for development......unless fergie really sanctioned a £7m price for an ex begger...?
aintforever Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Still though, it's good to suggest and speculate on the way our transfers work if it suits your agenda. What's my agenda? Every person on here is speculating.
Smirking_Saint Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 I don't for one minute think Fergie is being told who he can and cannot sign. Of course he is, otherwise Utd would be further in debt you melt. Besides, your sort of missing the point, Adkins is a toddler in the managerial department compared to SAF Out of interest who are the NC signings and who are the NA ones ?
aintforever Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Of course he is, otherwise Utd would be further in debt you melt. Besides, your sort of missing the point, Adkins is a toddler in the managerial department compared to SAF Out of interest who are the NC signings and who are the NA ones ? So you think someone else is choosing Man U's players for Sir Alex. You pleb.
the stain Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 I don't think you can call someone a pleb. Someone got in trouble that recently.
Dig Dig Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 What's my agenda? Every person on here is speculating. Only you know what your agenda is. It's not even logical that Cortese hand picks players and just gives them to Adkins without any input from him. It's a simple concept really. NA identifies positions to strengthen. Our scouts identify players for said positions. The transfer committee (which includes Adkins) review and draw up priorities inline with our transfer budget. Cortese then tries to sign our top targets. Perfectly normal in a modern day set up.
Bearsy Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Just by the by in that Moneyball movie Brad Pitt bought all the players. He listened to what all the scouts was saying, then he ignored it and just bought whoever fatty computers suggested. The manager dude weren't lovin it but Brad Pitt was just like suck it manager! Play my players!
aintforever Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Only you know what your agenda is. It's not even logical that Cortese hand picks players and just gives them to Adkins without any input from him. It's a simple concept really. NA identifies positions to strengthen. Our scouts identify players for said positions. The transfer committee (which includes Adkins) review and draw up priorities inline with our transfer budget. Cortese then tries to sign our top targets. Perfectly normal in a modern day set up. I didn't say there was anything wrong with our set up. Just that in my opinion the manager should always be the one that decides on which players to sign. I doubt any player would be signed if Adkins didn't want them. If a chairman is bringing in players against his wishes I think then there is a problem. I think you are the one with an agenda.
Smirking_Saint Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 So you think someone else is choosing Man U's players for Sir Alex. You pleb. Nope but I am saying he doesnt get full reign, he doesnt hold the purse strings, and yes they did sell Ronaldo, of course that was SAFs decision. I expect the fact they have had a constant asian player in the squad for the last X years ? That'll be entirely SAFs decision too But nothing takes away the point I made earlier which is that Nige has a long way to go before its anywhere near the same situation
Smirking_Saint Posted 15 January, 2013 Posted 15 January, 2013 Oh come on BTW, who are the players forced on Adkins and who are Adkins players ?
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