The Kraken Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 The key is his age - he is more one for the future when we have more players of his level. At the moment the others can't match him. Blimey. Its a sad indictment of a £12M player that he can only perform with better players around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CityRanger Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 The boo boys are clearing their throats again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 I think he is doing fine. Just give him time to adapt. I think he has shown us pretty good flashes of what he can do. I will admit however that he was pretty anonymous yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 (edited) The boo boys are clearing their throats again... No I believe its a discussion of a player who plays for club we support, why do the clappers always turn things into right wrong argument? Why cant it be people with differing opinions discussing different points? Edited 13 January, 2013 by Barry Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 Good player, I wish we had more of his quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugwash Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 A couple of years ago when every Chelsea fan was drooling over Drogba, Lampard, Terry and co, they signed a young Spanish player called Juan Mata. His immediate impact was unremarkable and in games I saw him play he looked quite ordinary and inconsistent. Now at 24 he's one of their key players. The point I'm trying to make is that they could afford to have lower expectations of him, so he had time to develop his game. Unfortunately, Saints do not have the luxury of a team full of world-class players, so the expectations and pressure on Gaston are much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 Yet another thread asking the same question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 I think he is doing fine. Just give him time to adapt. I think he has shown us pretty good flashes of what he can do. I will admit however that he was pretty anonymous yesterday. Fascinating insight Andy, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 A couple of years ago when every Chelsea fan was drooling over Drogba, Lampard, Terry and co, they signed a young Spanish player called Juan Mata. His immediate impact was unremarkable and in games I saw him play he looked quite ordinary and inconsistent. Now at 24 he's one of their key players. The point I'm trying to make is that they could afford to have lower expectations of him, so he had time to develop his game. Unfortunately, Saints do not have the luxury of a team full of world-class players, so the expectations and pressure on Gaston are much higher. This is very true. Another Chelsea signing in Hazard who was acclaimed as one of the most exciting players in Europe, wanted by all the top sides has also been inconsistent this season. Plus if you read any interview with Foreign players coming to England they nearly always say how different it is with the pace and physicality to all other countries. I would be far more concerned if Ramirez didnt look like he had the ability to be a success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 You have to say with the fantastic facilities we have here, the superb sports science department, the unbelievable coaching, the ambiton of the chairman and all of this overseen by Les Reed, the man who once wrote the coaching manual for England, there isn't a better club for him to be at right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 A couple of years ago when every Chelsea fan was drooling over Drogba, Lampard, Terry and co, they signed a young Spanish player called Juan Mata. His immediate impact was unremarkable and in games I saw him play he looked quite ordinary and inconsistent. Now at 24 he's one of their key players. The point I'm trying to make is that they could afford to have lower expectations of him, so he had time to develop his game. Unfortunately, Saints do not have the luxury of a team full of world-class players, so the expectations and pressure on Gaston are much higher.True, it makes my point of actually signing him and what we are trying to achieve, Chelsea are going for the Premiership and we at trying to stay in the League so we have differening goals for a start, a different type of player is needed, havign said that if he does settle in and score goals to keep us in the League then its £15Million well spent but again thats a huge gamble and one I would not of taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 He is class in his best position through the middle. He often makes decent runs, demands the ball, but doesn't get it. Just as much a case of others getting used to him, as the other way round. He'll get better and better in my opinion. This really, brain wise I think he is the best player at the club, but he is wasted out wide. He needs to be played through the middle to get the most of the ball. I didnt see him vs Villa but other than that I cant see how he isnt a hard worker, he chases harries and tries to get tackles in like the rest. For me the players around him are not on his level, added to things not quite working out for him. He hasnt lived up to his price tag yet, but thats not due to a lack of ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 I would be far more concerned if Ramirez didnt look like he had the ability to be a success. That's my point, I dont think he has shown the ability YET. What exactly has he done, one good half against Villa when everybody played well. Ability is not just about pretty touches and skill otherwise we would have signed Mr Woo. Football ability involves tackling, tracking back, and doing a job for the team. He looks totally uninterested in doing any of that. I could accept that ,as Alan Ball did of Matt, if he was producing at the other end, but he's not. He gives the ball away more than anyone else, his set pieces are pretty poor and he goes missing for vast spells of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 True, it makes my point of actually signing him and what we are trying to achieve, Chelsea are going for the Premiership and we at trying to stay in the League so we have differening goals for a start, a different type of player is needed, havign said that if he does settle in and score goals to keep us in the League then its £15Million well spent but again thats a huge gamble and one I would not of taken. Looking at it another way I think it was an oppurtunity to go out and get one of the most promising young players in world football at the moment for what is a reasonable price for age and ability. We went out and got the deal done, I dont think it was at the detriment of other positions, but on top off. In that respect I am happy he is here, when he adapts and is back through the middle he will show his obvious quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 Agree with a lot of the sentiment on here. Ramirez is class and needs time to settle. Between injuries, a new country/league, our own patchy form and flying back to uruguay I fancy he's yet to really hit his stride. When he does I fancy he will tear apart a few defences! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 he's a quality player but wasted on the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCholulaKid Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 Fascinating insight Andy, thanks. Still trying (unsuccessfully) to bully kids on the internet. What a prize bellend you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 We need to drop him, especially away from home and give Chaplow a run out for it more bite in midfield. You joke mate, but in yesterday's 2nd half I'd have rather had Chaplow on than Ramirez or De Ridder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenSaint Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 Great player but needs to play more central, he is not a wide left midfielder and he wont track back, MLT type player best played in the hole behind the striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 You joke mate, but in yesterday's 2nd half I'd have rather had Chaplow on than Ramirez or De Ridder. I'd have rather had Guly, than them, defensively he's had a couple of good games lately. De Ridder was absolutely hopeless at doing the job he was sent on to do yesterday, he didn't seem to have a clue what he was doing and panicked every time he got the ball. He aged me by about 10 years.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 Gaston is quite clearly a fantastic player. Was brilliant against Arsenal and dictated things against Newcastle. He is a passenger in away games I agree. For some to say he should be dropped or that he hasn't shown himself as one of our best players in any game this season is sheer lunacy. But then half of these "critics" probably don't even watch the games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 The key is his age - he is more one for the future when we have more players of his level. At the moment the others can't match him. More players his level? Shaw, Cork, Schneiderlin, Puncheon, Lambert, Rodriguez - not exactly mugs are they, some pretty intelligent and talented players there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 More players his level? Shaw, Cork, Schneiderlin, Puncheon, Lambert, Rodriguez - not exactly mugs are they, some pretty intelligent and talented players there None of which are probably on his level, Morgan maybe but he hasnt really played around the same Quality as Gaston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCholulaKid Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 he's a quality player but wasted on the left. This. Still learning his trade after just 5 months in a new country and suffered from injuries. Unbelievable that people are knocking him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 None of which are probably on his level, Morgan maybe but he hasnt really played around the same Quality as Gaston. Ah right. Can you let us know which players will be good enough for us to see the best of him? And when we're going to be signing these players? It didn't seem a problem in the home games against Villa, Newcastle and Arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintfully Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 He wasnt 100% fit. This thread is embarrassing. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 (edited) He's shown glimpses and when he's on song, it's usually a match winning performance e.g. Newcastle. But they are too few and far between. You have to take confidence from how the other players rave about him -and I can see him coming into his own next season provided we stay up. I have no worries about him adapting as he's suited to the English game: he's big and strong and games are a lot more open. IMO he's not helped by the lack of movement around him - we remain a pretty static team with the exception of Jrod. His game relies on the space that others movement creates and runs that give him a chance to pick a pass. Not necessarily about having better players but better movement which isn't the same thing (think Chaplow). Edited 13 January, 2013 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodgey Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 Lots of points I agree with here from both sides. The one point I don't is this playing with other quality players argument. He made his name for clubs I would argue are no better than us from a quality football pov so that doesn't wash with me. Clearly we were hoping he would be at least as influential for us as he was them, and for whatever reason he hasn't. He reminds me of Svensson when he first arrived, quality touch but gives it away as much as he can play decent passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 As it stands if we were to sell him now noone in their right mind would pay anywhere near the 12 million (alledgedly 14 million with add ons). That we paid we'd be lucky to get half that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 We're a better team with him, I suspect we've got nearly all our points with him playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 We're a better team with him, I suspect we've got nearly all our points with him playing. When Dan Fox and Steve de Ridder are the only current viable alternatives then yes, we're definitely a better team with him! Saying that, yesterday there really wasn't that much in it. Shows how bad he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 We're a better team with him, I suspect we've got nearly all our points with him playing. Only a point vs Fulham and Stoke gained without him playing. Record without him playing in league is: P 7 W 0 D 2 L 5 - 0.28 pts per game Record with: P 14 W 5 D 4 L 5 - 1.35 Pts per game* * Includes Arsenal away where he came on at HT 4-1 down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 Ah right. Can you let us know which players will be good enough for us to see the best of him? And when we're going to be signing these players? It didn't seem a problem in the home games against Villa, Newcastle and Arsenal. Well no, generally such as against Arsenal he looks a better player when played through the middle, more involved and sees more of the ball, his attacking instincts dont detriment either flank there either. Even in those games those around him dont quite look like they are on the same level, doesnt make his ability any less. As per buying players, itll happen eventually, or those we have will get used to him. I remember Ince at WWFC caused lots of problems and training incidents as those around him were just not good enough for his brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 i thought he done ok yesterday, i didn't know he done rubbish till i come on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 i thought he done ok yesterday, i didn't know he done rubbish till i come on here I think he is the scapegoat at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 Still trying (unsuccessfully) to bully kids on the internet. What a prize bellend you are. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 I think he is the scapegoat at the moment How can he be a scapegoat he's had a couple of good games since he's been here and he rightly received praise for those but he's inconsistent and yesterday he was terrible looked like he couldn't be bothered but then again maybe due to being played out if position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 He was out of position yesterday, I actually think Guly would have been better in the wide left position and was surprised Adkins went for a 4-4-2 (Rickie deep laying centre forward.) Gaston is easily our most talented player, but like all players he needs to be played to his strengths. He is not a winger, he is a central play maker. He shouldn't be judged on yesterday alone, he still got involved and did ok but wasn't near his peak. Surround him with better players and I believe he would look even better still. I don't think it's an accident that he looks better when playing in the same side as Adam Lallana, one of the few players in the team to have similar ability with the ball at his feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 Has he lived up to the hype so far ? No. Will he fuflill expectations eventually ? Maybe. Not if he p*sses off to Fiorentina at the earliest opportunity, obviously. Having trouble understanding why our resident gushers are having such hissy fits over people thinking this, or something similar. No-one has suggested booing him or hounding him out in any shape or form. The self-opinionatedness and intolerance on here sometimes is really something to behold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr X Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 He was out of position yesterday, I actually think Guly would have been better in the wide left position and was surprised Adkins went for a 4-4-2 (Rickie deep laying centre forward.) Gaston is easily our most talented player, but like all players he needs to be played to his strengths. He is not a winger, he is a central play maker. He shouldn't be judged on yesterday alone, he still got involved and did ok but wasn't near his peak. Surround him with better players and I believe he would look even better still. I don't think it's an accident that he looks better when playing in the same side as Adam Lallana, one of the few players in the team to have similar ability with the ball at his feet. Why does Adkins persist in playing him out wide then? Isn't he supposed to be a better judge of what players play best in which position than us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 How can he be a scapegoat he's had a couple of good games since he's been here and he rightly received praise for those but he's inconsistent and yesterday he was terrible looked like he couldn't be bothered but then again maybe due to being played out if position This is the Saints fan base buddy, I cant explain why we turn on players so easily, but we do. And Adkins is almost forced to play him out wide, it seemed to me this weekend it was him or SDR, he wasnt that bad against Villa anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Le Shearer Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 Only a point vs Fulham and Stoke gained without him playing. Record without him playing in league is: P 7 W 0 D 2 L 5 - 0.28 pts per game Record with: P 14 W 5 D 4 L 5 - 1.35 Pts per game* * Includes Arsenal away where he came on at HT 4-1 down Interesting. Those stats echoes my perception; the team plays a lot better with Gaston on the pitch. By the way, havent we lost a lot of points after he has been substituted aswell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 Having trouble understanding why our resident gushers are having such hissy fits over people thinking this, or something similar. No-one has suggested booing him or hounding him out in any shape or form. The self-opinionatedness and intolerance on here sometimes is really something to behold. Not sure i've seen any hissy fits on this thread, people has been pretty agreeable so far. I like watching him play. Even when he ain't terribly productive there's something special bout his first touch and how comfortable he is with the ball, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedArmy Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 He's only played like a £12m footballer in 2 games, 3 if I'm being generous. More often than not he's just not very good. If he came here to use us as a stepping stone to a bigger PL club, he's not doing a very good job of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 (edited) Why does Adkins persist in playing him out wide then? Isn't he supposed to be a better judge of what players play best in which position than us? It's a good question, but injuries to Lallana and the absence of Guly yesterday restricted us tactically. Bradford succeeded against Villa by using set pieces and good wing play, we didn't set up like that for some reason. (Although Shaw on the overlap, and Puncheon/Clyne down the right did look promising, the lack of men committing into the box for crosses was highly disappointing for me though. We seemed to stand off their defence in those situations not apply pressure to them.) Adkins is showing to be very flexible tactically, we do not set up with just one system. How we played against Stoke was very different to how we played against Arsenal for instance. It seems he is willing to trust his players in positions that are not necessarily their best.... and sometimes circumstance can force you to play your players out of position. Edited 13 January, 2013 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted 13 January, 2013 Author Share Posted 13 January, 2013 My view, fwiw, is that he is a player of class with very good skill. He is though, playing out of his position but is that for the team sake? I also feel that at the moment that he doesn't travel well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 out of position...the other day im sure many said he used to play LW for uruguay/bologna..? either way...he seems to totally not turn up when played LW and even away from home...can be devastating when played at home/behind the striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 This is the Saints fan base buddy, I cant explain why we turn on players so easily, but we do. And Adkins is almost forced to play him out wide, it seemed to me this weekend it was him or SDR, he wasnt that bad against Villa anyway. Didn't you expect it though. This is the Internet, Internet people seem to think a player that costs a certain amount has to have a set amount of ability, the same goes for Rodriguez and they have to show that ability EVERY week. After about 10 Premeir league games each Internet people are asking if they are living up to price tag. well the price is the price. In the real world £12m doesn't get you +15 attributes in pacing, shooting, pace and vision and 12s in strength, mentality, crossing and dribbling. Well they are living up to the price because the price is the price and those of us that understand the game knows a player with potential won't be brilliant every week. Of course, the arguement that would £19m have been better spent on experienced players who can hit the ground running straight away is another argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 This is the Saints fan base buddy, I cant explain why we turn on players so easily, but we do. And Adkins is almost forced to play him out wide, it seemed to me this weekend it was him or SDR, he wasnt that bad against Villa anyway. No-one has turned on Ramirez though have they. He gets a disproportionately high level of support from our fans every game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 13 January, 2013 Share Posted 13 January, 2013 Why is it that if anyone dares comment on a player in a negative way, they either don't go to games or are embarrassing? Take your red and white tinted glasses off and ask yourselves if the Villa fans came away saying how wonderful he was yesterday. We won despite of him, not because of him. Had Guly played like he did yesterday, would a thread about it be "embarrassing"" would critics be told that they "didn't go to games" . Benteke, Michu, Sterling have burst upon the scene, having neutrals and pundits raving about them. I've yet to hear one pundit or one neutral speak about Gaston in the same way. The only people who seem to say what a talent is, are Saints supporters, players and staff. There's not one person on here who doesn't want him to succeed, but in answer to the tittle of the thread "has he lived up to the hype" is no or not yet. Personally I believe we would have beaten Villa at home and Newcastle at home with or without him and I'm yet to be convinced he can be the difference in tight games like Taarabt is for QPR , by the way he is 23 compared to Gaston's 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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