Is it okay for Saints players to dive and cheat?

[eurosaint]

A) I don't condone diving but accept that it is a regular occurrence !

B) Nigel said in his after match interview that he expects good behaviour from his players in this respect, seems a reasonable assumption that it will be discussed in the routine analysis !

C) Please note the word 'maybe' and be aware that flowery language is often used to emphasise a point.

If you seriously think that I expect anyone to self harm then I honestly believe that you are the daft one, not me !

[sammysaint]

I dont think he dived to win the pen i think he bottled the challenge while trying to pass, his reactions say it all for me, but i dont like the fact he bottled a soft tackle.

[revenant]

Maybe Rodriguez learned his technique from Paul Lambert?

 

At 2:30 minutes in

 

Seems a bit hypocritical for him to complain. ;o)

[trousers]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21003838

 

"What a pity Southampton could not retain their credibility by just admitting that the referee got their awarded penalty wrong. But that would mean that Jay Rodriguez had dived and far be it for a football club to ever admit that!"

[The Kraken]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/21003838

 

"What a pity Southampton could not retain their credibility by just admitting that the referee got their awarded penalty wrong. But that would mean that Jay Rodriguez had dived and far be it for a football club to ever admit that!"

 

Or various members of a message board, come to that.

[trousers]

Or various members of a message board, come to that.

 

Except that Crook's premise is incorrect. Admitting the ref got the penalty decision wrong doesn't mean that you have to concede that Rodriguez dived.

[Dan]

Ones mans loss, is another mans gain.

 

You win some, you lose some and In this instance we got lucky, I'm sure the tides will turn before the seasons out.

[Dangermouth]

So it's not ok for JR to look to avoid injury, which he plainly did? And people would rather he was injured and perhaps never the same player again just so we got a clean penalty rather than one given by a referee for either: a mistake on behalf of the referee or a mistake on the part of the referee (I'll leave the smart people to get that straight away and the rest of you to have an aneurysm over it). The decision was made by the referee. JR didn't appeal for it.

 

JR did say that he didn't dive. I believe the only dive was evasive, not one aimed to gain an unfair advantage.

 

Is it ok for a Saints player to dive? No.

 

But there was less furore over Suarez' s handling of a ball that put Macclesfield (?) out of the FA Cup when it was deemed that it was up to the referee to make the decision than there has been by the BBC with this particular case when surely the same principle applies.

 

BBC pundits with the exception of a very few are useless (vnts.

[Chewy]

So it's not ok for JR to look to avoid injury, which he plainly did? .

 

Utter rubbish, he dived. The 'challenge' wouldn't have injured a two year old child, let alone a 6 foot athlete.

[AussieDog]

It looked like a dive on TV. To me the only question is whether he dived to gain a penalty or dived to avoid the lunge from the Villa player. The difference being the first is cheating and the 2nd is self-preservation.

If it is the latter, what was he meant to do let the guy just hack into his ankle/leg and then join the list of other Saints players on the injury list? It looks to me like his right leg was the weight-bearing leg and if you move that out of the way to avoid injury then you are going to fall over!

Being a glass half-full type of person I'll give him the benefit of the doubt this time. The ref is the one who has to make the call. There have been loads of bad calls in our games this year and this is one of the first that have actually gone in our favour.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

No it isn't. But I have never seen a blatant dive from a Saints player. Marginal calls like the one on Saturday are part of the game.

[Barry Sanchez]

So it's not ok for JR to look to avoid injury, which he plainly did? And people would rather he was injured and perhaps never the same player again just so we got a clean penalty rather than one given by a referee for either: a mistake on behalf of the referee or a mistake on the part of the referee (I'll leave the smart people to get that straight away and the rest of you to have an aneurysm over it). The decision was made by the referee. JR didn't appeal for it.

 

JR did say that he didn't dive. I believe the only dive was evasive, not one aimed to gain an unfair advantage.

 

Is it ok for a Saints player to dive? No.

 

But there was less furore over Suarez' s handling of a ball that put Macclesfield (?) out of the FA Cup when it was deemed that it was up to the referee to make the decision than there has been by the BBC with this particular case when surely the same principle applies.

 

BBC pundits with the exception of a very few are useless (vnts.

 

Where did he avoid injury? The defenders leg was fully extended.

[Barry Sanchez]

No it isn't. But I have never seen a blatant dive from a Saints player. Marginal calls like the one on Saturday are part of the game.

 

I'm sorry that was not marginal, that was falling to the ground, do you avoid injury like that?

[AussieDog]

I'm sorry that was not marginal, that was falling to the ground, do you avoid injury like that?

 

Stand on one leg. Now imagine someone is going to kick you in the shins on your standing leg and try and move it out of the way.

 

Let me know the result.

 

Now bear in mind that Rodriguez was running at the time and wouldn't have time to put his other leg down and this all happens in a split second.

[trousers]

Where did he avoid injury? The defenders leg was fully extended.

 

You're assuming Rodriguez had time to assess how close the defender was going to get to him. When someone lunges at you you react instinctively rather than with hindsight.

[Barry Sanchez]

You're assuming Rodriguez had time to assess how close the defender was going to get to him. When someone lunges at you you react instinctively rather than with hindsight.

 

By falling over like you have been shot? Opportunistic and also cheating, deception I think its called, he was seen stating he didn't dive, so he avoided possible injury? Is that normal behaviour for someone trying to evade injury?

[dubai_phil]

So the tweet that Halsey gave the pen for the foul on Puncheon has been disclaimed has it?

 

Just asking as I busted my phone and have been off line since I saw that on Saturday evening

[trousers]

By falling over like you have been shot? Opportunistic and also cheating, deception I think its called, he was seen stating he didn't dive, so he avoided possible injury? Is that normal behaviour for someone trying to evade injury?

 

No idea. I'm not as expert as some on here so will stick with my hunch that Rodriguez didn't try and con the ref into giving a penalty.

Edited 14 January, 2013 by trousers

[Barry Sanchez]

No idea. I'm not as expert as some on here so will stick with my hunch that Rodriguez didn't try and con the rev into giving a penalty.

 

So you are sticking to the theory of he avoided a possible injury by diving to the floor which mirrors/looks like he has been fouled/tripped in the penalty area, good hunch that, I wonder if you use that hunch for all players and all situations...........................

[trousers]

So you are sticking to the theory of he avoided a possible injury by diving to the floor which mirrors/looks like he has been fouled/tripped in the penalty area, good hunch that, I wonder if you use that hunch for all players and all situations...........................

 

Yep

[Barry Sanchez]

I hope to Christ it does not happen to us but if it did I would love to see your responce.

[trousers]

I hope to Christ it does not happen to us but if it did I would love to see your responce.

 

Me too.

[Saint Without a Halo]

I dont dont see the point in apologising etc.in a season S**t happens!

 

You get some good decisons and you get some bad ones! JR had what looked like a perfectly good goal disallowed for a dubuios offside recently as did Puncheon for a very innocuous push by Yoshida on the keeper. We have had countless good calls for a penalty turned down. We have even had players booked for diving when there was obvious contact because the ref's bottled the penalty call!

 

So yesterday we got one that on reflection wasnt right? why do we have to apologise?

 

Will Wenger apologise for Wilishire encouraging the ref to send of Kompany yesterday when replays showed it to be a perfectly god tackle? I think not!

 

The FA should introduce television replays like rugby and tennis to help referees until that happens it is what it is and generally poor decisons balance out over time!

 

This diving saga is taking away credit for a damn good performance by Saints. When all that matters is we got the 3 points we deserved for a change

[david in sweden]

Maybe Rodriguez learned his technique from Paul Lambert?

 

At 2:30 minutes in

Seems a bit hypocritical for him to complain. ;o)

 

 

a good look at that convinces me that PL was a master of that particular "art". Talk about " the pot calling the kettle black "......

 

The third " slow motion replay "after the incident shows him clearly going down...... before he comes into contact with the defender, and then claims a penalty..... Fooled the ref. totally.

[Joensuu]

I remember reading some professors study into diving a few years back, apparently there is no natural way of falling that causes the limps to rise into the air after the fall. I'd like to think the best of Jay, but watching the video again, i think he has (at minimum) decided to milk the situation, by flailing his legs about.

Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express

[david in sweden]

 

The FA should introduce television replays like rugby and tennis to help referees until that happens it is what it is and generally poor decisons balance out over time!

 

This diving saga is taking away credit for a damn good performance by Saints. When all that matters is we got the 3 points we deserved for a change

 

 

 

a valid point I have highlighted many times in the past, but Mr.Blatter doesn't see it that way and he thinks it takes away the credibility from referees.

 

The opposite is true - when the ref. makes a genuine mistake, or "bottles" the decision.......it only brings him and the game into more disrepute, when all TV fans can see what really happened.

 

Goal-line cameras are a small step forward, but that sort of incident happens only a few times each season.......penalty shouts, off the ball fouling and the like are a regular occurance in every match, thats where the attention should be paid. If I can watch a game on TV ....with replays.....and see what really happened.....then so too could a fourth official sat in front of a TV monitor.

 

NO, Mr.Blatter..it doesn't delay the progress of the game ....it's a 10 second delay to see the incident.

Much more time is " lost / wasted " in taking corners, free-kicks, goal-kicks and throw-ins, whereas "penalty incidents " ....often change the course of a match. If a penalty is " legit ", everyone should see it is.

 

So....why do we still play games in the " high.tech " 21st century ..... with out-dated 19th century ethical values., when most other sports have accepted the principle.

Edited 14 January, 2013 by david in sweden

[Thedelldays]

Pretty unanimous on talksport and 5live that Rodriguez... Be it, instinctively had conned the ref

 

Even saying again how you can see him look towards the ref when he is on the floor and how even Adkins all but admitted it was a dive

[Wes Tender]

Maybe Rodriguez learned his technique from Paul Lambert?

 

At 2:30 minutes in

 

Seems a bit hypocritical for him to complain. ;o)

 

What a great find. Did Lambert admit that he had dived, or did he go down to avoid injury from the tackle that was coming in? It's just a simple rule in life's rich tapestry; what goes around comes around.

[Thedelldays]

So then wes, the next time we lose to cheating you will just say. "Ah well, what goes around comes around"

 

No one will, and we will all be going mental. Like we have every single time before

[Saint Fan CaM]

Adkins came under some serious and quite unfair pressure from the press. He handled it fairly well and considered his words which were quite clear - we don't condone diving at the club, the player did not intentionally dive but went down instinctively when presented with a lunging defender, JRod did not claim a pen - the Ref awarded it.

 

The context of course in all of this is that the incident happened in a split second - everything would have been instinctive - the game is played at a brutal pace. So all those who are slamming JRod from their armchairs should try to imagine those circumstances. Harsh decisions are seen in EVERY Prem game - it's the nature of things and until there is a sea change in the manner in which games are managed (i.e. TV replays etc), then controversy will stay with the game. I just hope pundits from the press make such a song and dance over one of the top 3 teams players.

[Wes Tender]

So then wes, the next time we lose to cheating you will just say. "Ah well, what goes around comes around"

 

No one will, and we will all be going mental. Like we have every single time before

 

I will take the view that I have expressed before. That we are often victims of other teams' players diving and rolling around theatrically as if they've been shot, so why don't we get a bit more savvy ourselves to even things up a bit? On the one hand I despise these cheats and feel certain that some managers encourage it to gain an advantage, so on the other hand I'm inclined to think that justice has been done when a decision like this goes our way.

 

In this case, as I've already said, I feel that Ramirez's goal at Arsenal should not have been disallowed and therefore the referee's decision at Villa is just such a case of what goes around comes around. To put it another way that is more prevalent as a similar opinion, these things even themselves up during the course of a season.

[mitch01]

Definite dive and I wish it wasn't part of the game, but if its a choice between 0-0 draw without the dive and 1-0 win with it - I'll take the win every time. We will be on the receiving end of it plenty of times, and there have been a couple of stonewallers we haven't been given this year, too.

[alpine_saint]

Over 300 posts on this. Blimey, have we nothing better to worry about, like the fact we NEEDED a dive to win the Villa game ?

[tajjuk]

I've looked at this several times and I'm still not sure, his reaction was odd as he claimed nothing but then I can't really see why he went down. I also agree a bit with Lambert, the challenge was awful and was stupid to do in the box. If you challenge like that you are asking for trouble.

 

Thought the ref gave it for the challenge by the keeper on Puncheon though?

 

Also it's swings and roundabouts for me, Lowton should have been sent off for his challenge on Ramirez but the ref didn't see it. We get a bit off the luck and they got a bit of luck. Still think we deserved the win as Villa didn't play until the last 15 minutes.

 

If the same had happened to us I'd be annoyed but at the same time I'd be annoyed as to why we played so crap at home against another relegation team.

[Barry Sanchez]

Fellow fans deflect with other instances that bare no relevance to what happened on Saturday, who cares that Lambert did it, this is a case of Rodriguez being opportunistic and successfully cheating the ref, getting out of the way of a tackle in these circumstances is the new phenomemon/excuse when people have been awarded penalties in these situations, no fan of football can condone this as its cheating and ****ing sly to be honest.

[trousers]

Fellow fans deflect with other instances that bare no relevance to what happened on Saturday, who cares that Lambert did it, this is a case of Rodriguez being opportunistic and successfully cheating the ref, getting out of the way of a tackle in these circumstances is the new phenomemon/excuse when people have been awarded penalties in these situations, no fan of football can condone this as its cheating and ****ing sly to be honest.

 

I disagree

[Wes Tender]

Fellow fans deflect with other instances that bare no relevance to what happened on Saturday, who cares that Lambert did it, this is a case of Rodriguez being opportunistic and successfully cheating the ref, getting out of the way of a tackle in these circumstances is the new phenomemon/excuse when people have been awarded penalties in these situations, no fan of football can condone this as its cheating and ****ing sly to be honest.

 

3 points. Thank you very much. Nothing more to say.

[dubai_phil]

And on the subject of bad refereeing decisions in this game, why didn't Benteke get sent off for his elbow in the face of Maya?

[trousers]

Over 300 posts on this. Blimey, have we nothing better to worry about, like the fact we NEEDED a dive to win the Villa game ?

 

How do we know for sure that the game would've taken the same course had Saints not been awarded a penalty at that stage of the game?

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Adkins came under some serious and quite unfair pressure from the press. He handled it fairly well and considered his words which were quite clear - we don't condone diving at the club, the player did not intentionally dive but went down instinctively when presented with a lunging defender, JRod did not claim a pen - the Ref awarded it.

 

The context of course in all of this is that the incident happened in a split second - everything would have been instinctive - the game is played at a brutal pace. So all those who are slamming JRod from their armchairs should try to imagine those circumstances. Harsh decisions are seen in EVERY Prem game - it's the nature of things and until there is a sea change in the manner in which games are managed (i.e. TV replays etc), then controversy will stay with the game. I just hope pundits from the press make such a song and dance over one of the top 3 teams players.

 

This is it in a nutshell. Also J-Rod didn't do the rolling around appealing for a pen thing, so he gets the benefit of the doubt for me.

[alpine_saint]

How do we know for sure that the game would've taken the same course had Saints not been awarded a penalty at that stage of the game?

 

Indeed. It would have been a 0-0 draw, or perhaps Benteke wouldnt have felt so much pressure and made a hash of the open goal he had at 90 +5...

[pap]

My worry, perhaps shared by others, is that J Rod will go into the unofficial "big list of divers".

 

Could cost us games and him personal safety on the pitch.

[Turkish]

My worry, perhaps shared by others, is that J Rod will go into the unofficial "big list of divers".

 

Could cost us games and him personal safety on the pitch.

 

Lallana seems to be on there already.

[trousers]

Indeed. It would have been a 0-0 draw

 

Lottery numbers for this weekend please sir

[SaintWill71]

In my opinion he dived. The avoiding injury line doesnt add up for me as his other leg goes to jelly to send him to the turf.

 

I dont like diving and dont want to see players at my club do it. On the other hand, we talk of all this learning that we need to do and adapting to the Premier League. Every other club seems to do it, just another lesson we have learnt perhaps.

 

I think its funny also how literally everyone (MOTD, Goals on Sunday etc) ignore the fact Halsey has said the penalty was for the Guzan challenge on Puncheon.

[iansums]

Fellow fans deflect with other instances that bare no relevance to what happened on Saturday, who cares that Lambert did it, this is a case of Rodriguez being opportunistic and successfully cheating the ref, getting out of the way of a tackle in these circumstances is the new phenomemon/excuse when people have been awarded penalties in these situations, no fan of football can condone this as its cheating and ****ing sly to be honest.

 

I think you need to accept that some people have a different opinion on this.

 

I have seen a few dives from Lallana and other Saints players in recent seasons which have been quite frankly embarrassing but this for me was different. IMO uppermost in JRod's mind was to nick the ball away from the defender and avoid the oncoming challenge. By doing this (and you need to look at the position of his left leg), then he could do nothing but go down. It was not a penalty, quite clearly, but I don't think you can blame the ref as from his position it looked like one.

[trousers]

I think you need to accept that some people have a different opinion on this.

I admire your optimism

[View From The Top]

We need someone to dive with AL out injured!

[Barry Sanchez]

Of course I accept others have different opinions to mine and actually enjoy debating the conflicting points.

[Window Cleaner]

I think its funny also how literally everyone (MOTD, Goals on Sunday etc) ignore the fact Halsey has said the penalty was for the Guzan challenge on Puncheon.

 

 

As I said yesterday the OS gallery images 9 through 12 clearly show Guzan bringing down Puncheon, that's a foul, it's in the box therefore it's a penalty. I presume those very detailed and clear sequential frames are on the gallery for that purpose.