Adkins' future in doubt (again) - Daily Mail

[Saint Charlie]

Personally I can't get my head around any Saints fan who thinks Adkins job should be in doubt.

 

For me - he is the best Manager we have had in my lifetime (25 years).

[Window Cleaner]

and yet they are still doing better than us...despite everyone in agreement on how utterly terrible they are...what does that make us...?

and they are one game away from wembley....

 

I do think we will win at the weekend..but right now, they are higher up the league

 

 

but only because of 2 Gazza howlers, we're only as good as our weakest link.

[Thedelldays]

Personally I can't get my head around any Saints fan who thinks Adkins job should be in doubt.

 

For me - he is the best Manager we have had in my lifetime (25 years).

he is 3rd for me

[tajjuk]

im talking premier league....a 50% win ratio in league 1 means diddly squat for the villa game

 

That's their career records, all those managers you have mentioned have spent most of their careers in the lower league yet haven't managed a 50% win ratio in league 1 or the championship like Adkins has at Saints.

 

 

Phil Brown's record at Preston - win ratio of 29% Championship and league 1.

 

Paul Jewell's Championship record at Derby - win ratio of just 20%

 

Boothroyd's record at Coventry - 30% win ratio.

 

You said he is right up there with them, but his managerial record at similar level clubs is clearly vastly superior.

[Thedelldays]

That's their career records, all those managers you have mentioned have spent most of their careers in the lower league yet haven't managed a 50% win ratio in league 1 or the championship like Adkins has at Saints.

 

 

Phil Brown's record at Preston - win ratio of 29% Championship and league 1.

 

Paul Jewell's Championship record at Derby - win ratio of just 20%

 

Boothroyd's record at Coventry - 30% win ratio.

 

You said he is right up there with them, but his managerial record at similar level clubs is clearly vastly superior.

what about brown at hull

or jewell at wigan

or boothroyd at watford...?

[Matthew Le God]

and yet they are still doing better than us...despite everyone in agreement on how utterly terrible they are...what does that make us...?

 

and they are one game away from wembley....

 

I do think we will win at the weekend..but right now, they are higher up the league

 

So where is the problem? If we win at the weekend as you think we will, we'll 2 points above Villa, have a game in hand (admittedly away at Chelsea) and have a vastly superior goal difference.

 

Saints had a poor start whilst they settled into the Premier League and are starting to look solid based on the last 10 games, Villa on the other hand have been getting worse in recent months.

[Thedelldays]

So where is the problem? If we win at the weekend as you think we will, we'll 2 points above Villa, have a game in hand (admittedly away at Chelsea) and have a vastly superior goal difference.

 

Saints had a poor start whilst they settled into the Premier League and are starting to look solid based on the last 10 games, Villa on the other had have been getting worse in recent months.

 

agree...as have said...if we dont beat them... that will really tell us we are not very good at all

[Turkish]

Personally I can't get my head around any Saints fan who thinks Adkins job should be in doubt.

 

For me - he is the best Manager we have had in my lifetime (25 years).

 

Really? Strachan took us to 8th and a cup final

Hoddle took us to a top half side

Nicholl took us to 7th and in reality we were never really in danger of relegation with his as boss and played some great stuff.

Alan Ball, took us from side going down to a midtable one.

 

All done with far less money than Adkns has had.

 

There are 4 who could be considered better than Adkins.

[Graffito]

Why are you getting stroppy? Nick G said that managers need to be at the right club, I posed the question that now, given the players Cortese wants to bring in, are we still the right club for him, or do we need and benefit from a higher profile manager. Just because you cant comprehend the point its no need to hijack the thread, other people have managed to understand it without sulking.

 

Sorry mate. Didn't think I was getting stroppy and I understood your point full well. Thought you enjoyed a bit of banter. I won't pull your leg then about someone with 16k posts accusing me of hijacking a thread.

[sfc4prem]

Don't understand why he should be under any sort of pressure. His tactics, in my opinion are generally spot on. I've yet to see a game where we've been split apart by the opposition. Our positioning and formations are pretty solid throughout games and his positivity is the main reason behind our recent improvements in defence.

 

Sacking him would be a criminal error.

[skintsaint]

Think NA is in trouble if we lose v the villa....

 

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[Saint Charlie]

Really? Strachan took us to 8th and a cup final

Hoddle took us to a top half side

Nicholl took us to 7th and in reality we were never really in danger of relegation with his as boss and played some great stuff.

Alan Ball, took us from side going down to a midtable one.

 

All done with far less money than Adkns has had.

 

There are 4 who could be considered better than Adkins.

 

Maybe factually yes, but I said for me he is the best we have had - all said and done in terms of league place finishes (2nd, 2nd - two auto promotions), win ratio, style of play, enjoyment of watching the team, personality, he is the Manager I have rated best.

 

I wouldn't expect everyone to agree.

Edited 10 January, 2013 by Saint Charlie

[Mowgli]

Really? Strachan took us to 8th and a cup final

Hoddle took us to a top half side

Nicholl took us to 7th and in reality we were never really in danger of relegation with his as boss and played some great stuff.

Alan Ball, took us from side going down to a midtable one.

 

All done with far less money than Adkns has had.

 

There are 4 who could be considered better than Adkins.

 

Comparisons are difficult but I share St Charlie's opinion. And I've been supporting Saints 50 years. You can roll out statistics and some of those of other managers are indeed although financial comparisons are pretty menaingless because its a totally different game now.

 

Adkins has shown ability to manage at different levels in the league demostrating his in depth knowledge of the game and how to play it at different levels. He has changed styles and formations to suite the league we are in. His background is a mixture of player, physio, phycologist and leader - qualities our other managers have had some of but not all. He has shown an ability to work with (allegedly) a difficult Chariman. Areas that I had my reservations on were his ability to handle big stars and how to integrate kids - areas where many of our fomer managers have shown a weakness. Above all he has shown resilience to work his way through difficult runs without ever doubting his own self believe. Above all that he is a nice guy, he handles the media well (without saying too much) and he is respectful to all in the game - a credit to the club. In my view he is up there with Ted Bates (not necessarily better but up there).

 

To be fair, Hoddle is a bit of an idiot and clearly could not handle Le Tiss. Strachan got lucky with us and left because he knew he could take us no further. Nichol was good but was not an inspirational leader of the players and Ball was just a really likeable guy who could only really survive when things were going well. I doubt he would have lasted more than a season or two had he not walked out on us.

 

It's all about opinions though isn't it?

[Thedelldays]

Strachan got lucky with us

adkins is amazing yet WGS was lucky....was adkins not lucky to come to a club with very rich owners?

 

how would adkins do on the budget WGS had...imagine if we had to bring in paul williams and paul telfer now.....

[tajjuk]

what about brown at hull

or jewell at wigan

or boothroyd at watford...?

 

Jewell at Wigan is 43% which is not bad, but that makes every other job he's done a failure, only just kept Wigan up as well.

 

Brown at Hull 33%, got up through play offs and stayed up in 17th place then got them relegated. (and that is the 'highglight'of his career)

 

Boothroyd at Watford 34% win ratio, got promoted (again play offs) and then got his team relegated in 20th.

 

 

 

 

 

Still no real comparison to Adkins, who has had 4 (3 automatic) promotions and had success at all 3 clubs he has managed, whereas the 3 above have had limited success and failed at every other attempt.

 

Adkins has never been sacked in his career.

Edited 10 January, 2013 by tajjuk

[Thedelldays]

Jewell at Wigan is 43% which is not bad, but that makes every other job he's done a failure, only just kept Wigan up as well.

 

Brown at Hull 33%, got up through play offs and stayed up in 17th place then got them relegated. (and that is the 'highglight'of his career)

 

Boothroyd at Watford 34% win ratio, got promoted (again play offs) and then got his team relegated in 20th.

 

 

 

 

 

Still no real comparison to Adkins, who has had 4 promotions and had success at all 3 clubs he has managed.

either way...2 of those 3 "crap" managers kept their pish poor, cheap squads in the prem first shout...all well and good looking down at brown for keeping hull up in 17th...yet we would celebrate adkins as "amazing" if he does the same....

[tajjuk]

either way...2 of those 3 "crap" managers kept their pish poor, cheap squads in the prem first shout...all well and good looking down at brown for keeping hull up in 17th...yet we would celebrate adkins as "amazing" if he does the same....

 

And fair play to them, but Adkins has a far better managerial record and has already proven himself better than them, he's proven to be a good manager at every club so far, yet those other 3 have had failed at every other job.

[Saint Charlie]

And fair play to them, but Adkins has a far better managerial record and has already proven himself better than them, he's proven to be a good manager at every club so far, yet those other 3 have had failed at every other job.

 

In fact he is probably yet to be sacked as a Manager I would have thought.

[Turkish]

Comparisons are difficult but I share St Charlie's opinion. And I've been supporting Saints 50 years. You can roll out statistics and some of those of other managers are indeed although financial comparisons are pretty menaingless because its a totally different game now.

 

Adkins has shown ability to manage at different levels in the league demostrating his in depth knowledge of the game and how to play it at different levels. He has changed styles and formations to suite the league we are in. His background is a mixture of player, physio, phycologist and leader - qualities our other managers have had some of but not all. He has shown an ability to work with (allegedly) a difficult Chariman. Areas that I had my reservations on were his ability to handle big stars and how to integrate kids - areas where many of our fomer managers have shown a weakness. Above all he has shown resilience to work his way through difficult runs without ever doubting his own self believe. Above all that he is a nice guy, he handles the media well (without saying too much) and he is respectful to all in the game - a credit to the club. In my view he is up there with Ted Bates (not necessarily better but up there).

 

To be fair, Hoddle is a bit of an idiot and clearly could not handle Le Tiss. Strachan got lucky with us and left because he knew he could take us no further. Nichol was good but was not an inspirational leader of the players and Ball was just a really likeable guy who could only really survive when things were going well. I doubt he would have lasted more than a season or two had he not walked out on us.

 

It's all about opinions though isn't it?

 

You're not comparing like with like though, how can anyone say he is the best manager weve had until he's proven himself in the premier league like the others did? You seem to belittle the achievements of the others, Hoddle was an idiot, Strachan was lucky, Ball just a nice bloke. So why not say Adkins was lucky to be here in time when we've had more money than ever before and inherited a championship side playing in L1?

 

I'm not belittling what Adkins has achieved but If you're gong to dismiss the achievements of the others then you could easily dismiss what Adkns has achieved.

[Sheaf Saint]

adkins is amazing yet WGS was lucky....was adkins not lucky to come to a club with very rich owners?

 

how would adkins do on the budget WGS had...imagine if we had to bring in paul williams and paul telfer now.....

 

In fairness, Williams and Telfer were not in our 2003 cup final squad. WGS was lucky in that he inherited an already decent squad of players that came good under his fitness coaching, and it was after we lost the best of those players (Bridge, Beattie etc...) that we began to decline. His record in the transfer market was actually really poor IMO.

[Window Cleaner]

Adkins win ratio in the PL is what 20%, 4 out of 20 is that it ? Take away the 2 totally evitable Gazza howlers and it becomes 30%,6 in 20. With a decent keeper which he should have insisted on us acquiring in May or June last year he'd have a really respectable PL record as well. But he didn't and thus he hasn't so he isn't a good manager. These are the hard facts,no use waving your arms about and talking about League 1 or the NPC.

Edited 10 January, 2013 by Window Cleaner

[Edmonton Saint]

As I have stated on here previously, this expensively assembled squad should be doing better than being out of the relegation places on only goal difference. If we lose against a woeful Villa team on Saturday, then Adkins has to leave. No more excuses. If we are to have a new manager in place, it has to be this month, so they can still use whats left of the transfer window.

[Saint Charlie]

Adkins win ratio in the PL is what 20%, 4 out of 20 is that it ? Take away the 2 totally evitable Gazza howlers and it becomes 30%,6 in 20. With a decent keeper which he should have insisted on us acquiring in May or June last year he'd have a really respectable PL record as well. But he didn't and thus he hasn't so he isn't a good manager. These are the hard facts,no use waving your arms about and talking about League 1 or the NPC.

 

So you are aware of what Adkins suggested in the summer then? What if he did say that and then the deals werent able to be done? Is that still his fault even though he doesnt do the transfer deals?

 

Basically you are judging your opinion of Adkins on an assumption that have no idea is correct (and probably isn't).

[Sour Mash]

Don't understand why he should be under any sort of pressure. His tactics, in my opinion are generally spot on. I've yet to see a game where we've been split apart by the opposition. Our positioning and formations are pretty solid throughout games and his positivity is the main reason behind our recent improvements in defence.

 

Sacking him would be a criminal error.

Arsenal away? Chelsea at home in the 2nd half? - we were split apart by the oppossition in those two games. HE's got a few substitutions wrong. I want him to stay and think he's a top bloke, but he's no managerial genius.

[Saint Charlie]

As I have stated on here previously, this expensively assembled squad should be doing better than being out of the relegation places on only goal difference. If we lose against a woeful Villa team on Saturday, then Adkins has to leave. No more excuses. If we are to have a new manager in place, it has to be this month, so they can still use whats left of the transfer window.

 

So who would you like to bring in?

[Saint Charlie]

Arsenal away? Chelsea at home in the 2nd half? - we were split apart by the oppossition in those two games. HE's got a few substitutions wrong. I want him to stay and think he's a top bloke, but he's no managerial genius.

 

Opposition with players vastly superior to ours it must be said.

[Barry Sanchez]

he is 3rd for me

 

He is certainly not my numbers one in my lifetime, Nicholl was a great manager who should of never been sacked and it can be argued that was the start of our downturn.

[Barry Sanchez]

So who would you like to bring in?

 

Di Matteo does not inspire me, Hoddle? Strachan? Gullit?

[Window Cleaner]

So you are aware of what Adkins suggested in the summer then? What if he did say that and then the deals werent able to be done? Is that still his fault even though he doesnt do the transfer deals?

 

Basically you are judging your opinion of Adkins on an assumption that have no idea is correct (and probably isn't).

 

what he suggested doesn't matter, jeez people cannot see that a manager should stick to his guns and get the players he wants at least for key positions. I bet Sir Alex or Moyes don't get fobbed off with committee choices over their own. NA was clearly duped by KD into thinking he was a PL keeper or at least better than what he been fobbed off with.

[Dig Dig]

adkins is amazing yet WGS was lucky....was adkins not lucky to come to a club with very rich owners?

 

how would adkins do on the budget WGS had...imagine if we had to bring in paul williams and paul telfer now.....

 

The prem is stronger now IMO. The fact that we even did ok with those players says in all.

[Edmonton Saint]

So who would you like to bring in?

 

I would be more than happy with Di Matteo if the rumours are to be believed.

[Saint Charlie]

what he suggested doesn't matter, jeez people cannot see that a manager should stick to his guns and get the players he wants at least for key positions. I bet Sir Alex or Moyes don't get fobbed off with committee choices over their owN. NA was clearly duped by KD into thinking he was a PL keeper or at least better than what he been fobbed off with.

 

So whose fault is it that we don't have a better keeper? Adkins or the transfer group?

[Saint Charlie]

I would be more than happy with Di Matteo if the rumours are to be believed.

 

Fair enough - in what specific areas so you think he would do better than Adkins?

[Window Cleaner]

So whose fault is it that we don't have a better keeper? Adkins or the transfer group?

 

Adkins, he's the manager and he has to impose himself on team issues. If he can't he walks as would any respectable manager.

[Sour Mash]

Opposition with players vastly superior to ours it must be said.

And? I'm just responding to what he said in his post that he hadn't seen any opposition split us apart, when plenty have. Or what about West Ham 2nd half this season? Or Everton? As I say, I like Adkins, but he's only done "ok" sp far this season.

[Saint Charlie]

Adkins, he's the manager and he has to impose himself on team issues. If he can't he walks as would any respectable manager.

 

What if when he joined he knew that the transfers (as with pretty much every club) is handled by a Committee and that he wouldn't have full say? Should he not have taken the job? Do you think when Cortese told him he could sign gaston Ramirez that Adkins was unhappy then?

 

Surely the Manager manages the team and squad he has to the best of his ability and lets the recruitment team recruit. If they don't buy good enough players that is their fault and if the Manager doesn't manage well enough it is his fault?

 

For me you can criticise the way Adkins has chopped and changed keeper, but knowing how the transfers are done you can't criticise NA for the personnel - unless he said in the summer he was happy with KD as no 1. The answer to this nobody knows.

[Saint Charlie]

And? I'm just responding to what he said in his post that he hadn't seen any opposition split us apart, when plenty have. Or what about West Ham 2nd half this season? Or Everton? As I say, I like Adkins, but he's only done "ok" sp far this season.

 

Fair enough- would agree mostly. West Ham was a bizarre one IMO as first half we were better than them but just made some awful individual errors in the 2nd half. The players let NA down, it wasn't his fault that one at all.

[Thedelldays]

Fair enough- would agree mostly. West Ham was a bizarre one IMO as first half we were better than them but just made some awful individual errors in the 2nd half. The players let NA down, it wasn't his fault that one at all.

convenient

 

should have started lambert...maybe we may have had a lead to hold on to...and probably give away

[Barry Sanchez]

Or you can criticise his substitutions, playing players out of position simply to fit them in, playing poor players who are not premiership standard, showing a lack of fire when we play woeful, Di Cannio he is not.

[Dig Dig]

Or you can criticise his substitutions, playing players out of position simply to fit them in, playing poor players who are not premiership standard, showing a lack of fire when we play woeful, Di Cannio he is not.

 

He's achieved diddly squat in comparison to Adkins.

[Barry Sanchez]

What if when he joined he knew that the transfers (as with pretty much every club) is handled by a Committee and that he wouldn't have full say? Should he not have taken the job? Do you think when Cortese told him he could sign gaston Ramirez that Adkins was unhappy then?

 

Surely the Manager manages the team and squad he has to the best of his ability and lets the recruitment team recruit. If they don't buy good enough players that is their fault and if the Manager doesn't manage well enough it is his fault?

 

For me you can criticise the way Adkins has chopped and changed keeper, but knowing how the transfers are done you can't criticise NA for the personnel - unless he said in the summer he was happy with KD as no 1. The answer to this nobody knows.

 

So he went in knowing he was a patsy?

[Barry Sanchez]

He's achieved diddly squat in comparison to Adkins.

Thats true and that can not be argued.

[Saint Charlie]

convenient

 

should have started lambert...maybe we may have had a lead to hold on to...and probably give away

 

Jay Rod did well, like I said we were the better team first half.

 

Adkins didn't tell the defenders not to head away Noble's tame free kick.

 

He didn't tell Guly to mess about in his own half and give the ball away

 

He didn't tell Fonte to needlessly handle in the area.

 

One game isn't really the point anyway. I am confused about your opinion on Adkins Delldays. Do you rate him or want him gone? I can't tell from your posts?

[Edmonton Saint]

Fair enough - in what specific areas so you think he would do better than Adkins?

 

1. Attracting players to the club. Di Matteo is a champions league winning manager, Adkins is a championship runner up.

2. Working with Cortese. The fact Di Matteo is Italian has to be an advantage here.

3. Tactical decisions- Adkins has had some baffling decisions this season and the Gazzaniga experiment is one we haven't recovered from. Also Adkins has suffered from negativity when making substitutions to a crippling effect in recent weeks, He seems happier settling for a draw, rather than showing some balls and going for a win. The decision to bring on Richardson and Fox at Stoke, whilst we were winning against 10 men baffled me. Also there has been similar incidents all season, when I for one have been WTF with some of Adkins decisions.

[Barry Sanchez]

Stoke and Wigan will bite us right on the ******** come the end of the season.We can all then clap with Nige into the Championship...........................

[Saint Charlie]

1. Attracting players to the club. Di Matteo is a champions league winning manager, Adkins is a championship runner up.

2. Working with Cortese. The fact Di Matteo is Italian has to be an advantage here.

3. Tactical decisions- Adkins has had some baffling decisions this season and the Gazzaniga experiment is one we haven't recovered from. Also Adkins has suffered from negativity when making substitutions to a crippling effect in recent weeks, He seems happier settling for a draw, rather than showing some balls and going for a win. The decision to bring on Richardson and Fox at Stoke, whilst we were winning against 10 men baffled me. Also there has been similar incidents all season, when I for one have been WTF with some of Adkins decisions.

 

1. Fair enough - might have an impact although msot players will go where the money is.

 

2. They seem to have done ok the last couple of years with successive promotions - or maybe two people of the same Nationality automatically get on better?

 

3. Which of Di Matteo's tactical decisions have impressed you? its easy to criticise NA's but how do you feel RDM would be different? Do you remember any of his tactical decisions?

[Saint Charlie]

It won't. Our position in May will. Villa beat Liverpool and lost to Bradford. Single games tell us fck all, which you should know after so many years.

 

This. Although the bed wetters won't believe it.

[Dig Dig]

1. Fair enough - might have an impact although msot players will go where the money is.

 

2. They seem to have done ok the last couple of years with successive promotions - or maybe two people of the same Nationality automatically get on better?

 

3. Which of Di Matteo's tactical decisions have impressed you? its easy to criticise NA's but how do you feel RDM would be different? Do you remember any of his tactical decisions?

 

His idea to replicate Spain and play no striker in the Champions League cost him his job in the end. No manager is faultless. Those advocating Di Matteo would probably be the first to criticise and get on his back after a run of defeats anyway.

[Dig Dig]

Really don't get us or other clubs eager to get Di Matteo. His role in winning the CL was as much as Stuart Gray in a good end to a season all those years ago. Neither built a side or had any long-term effect, and appointing caretakers is a risk. I was surprised Chelsea went with him, didn't see anything great from him, just a capable side lead to victory by the likes of Drogba, Cole and Cech. Looked a little lost at WBA towards the end. Still, there will definitely be bigger clubs who just see the trophy and offer a job. This is a world where Appleton is in demand after all.

 

 

His league record at Chelsea was never good enough for the squad of players he had either and then when you add that to his record at WBA, can't see any reason why he would come in an be an improvement on Adkins

[Saint Charlie]

His league record at Chelsea was never good enough for the squad of players he had either and then when you add that to his record at WBA, can't see any reason why he would come in an be an improvement on Adkins

 

This. Plus Adkins loves it here, you can tell, he really appreciates being the Manager of Saints. Di Matteo would arrive from Chelsea, 'his club' which would be a step down for him. I don't see the appeal myself.