Is our current side being competitive in premier league?

[NickG]

Team at start of season wasn't.

 

First change was addition of Yoshida and Ramirez. We have had 16 games since Arsenal away;

 

Saints 18 points

Aston Villa 15

Fulham 15

Sunderland 15

Wigan 14

Newcastle 12

Reading 11

QPR 11

 

The next change was introduction of Shaw and Cork 10 games ago:

 

Saints 14 points

WBA 13

West ham 11

Aston villa 10

Sunderland 10

QPR 9

Fulham 8

Wigan 7

Newcastle 6

Reading 4

 

In both those periods we have the best goal difference.

 

Last 10 games we have conceded less than half the goals

Compared to 6 of those!

[Patrick Bateman]

Nice stats.

[Thedelldays]

Of only the season started after all our signings came in

 

Serious question. Haven't we had the best run of league fixtures in the last 10 games?

[stevegrant]

There has been a clear improvement - let's face it, defensively we couldn't get any worse - but it also needs to be put in context as that dismal early part of the season coincided with playing three of last season's top 4 in the first month.

 

That said, strangely, I reckon if we played Man City (A), Man United (H) and Arsenal (A) again, we'd get beaten more comfortably at City, perhaps likewise by United, but the margin at Arsenal would be smaller, so I don't think overall we'd necessarily be any better off.

[The Kraken]

Good stuff.

 

Shows how criticial the next 6 games are. 2 "mustn't lose" away games against Villa and Wigan, plus tough games against Man United, Man City, Chelsea and Everton. Its very unlikely we'll get anything out of United and Chelsea away, plus City at home is an almighty challenge. Really need to capitalise with the other games; if we lose points to either of Villa and/or Wigan it'll be an enormous blow.

[stevegrant]

Of only the season started after all our signings came in

This is why it's absolute nonsense that the transfer window closes three weeks into the season. IMO, the window should close at the end of July rather than August, which would then mean that teams need to actually plan properly. In that scenario, there's no way we'd have been so tardy in getting defensive reinforcements in, and we might have been a bit tighter at the back right from the start. As I said above, we wouldn't necessarily have collected any more points in those opening games (we caught Wigan at the wrong time, I reckon we'd beat them at home now), but there wouldn't have been such a confidence crisis.

[Gemmel]

I've seen us lead against man city, man utd, arsenal and chelsea.

 

Yes we are competitive, but as a curve ball to this thread, do not believe we are fit enough.

[trousers]

I've seen us lead against man city, man utd, arsenal and chelsea.

 

Yes we are competitive, but as a curve ball to this thread, do not believe we are fit enough.

 

I would put it more down to fitness of the mind (i.e. ability to concentrate 100% over 95 mins) rather than fitness of the body...

[alpine_saint]

Team at start of season wasn't.

 

First change was addition of Yoshida and Ramirez. We have had 16 games since Arsenal away;

 

Saints 18 points

Aston Villa 15

Fulham 15

Sunderland 15

Wigan 14

Newcastle 12

Reading 11

QPR 11

 

The next change was introduction of Shaw and Cork 10 games ago:

 

Saints 14 points

WBA 13

West ham 11

Aston villa 10

Sunderland 10

QPR 9

Fulham 8

Wigan 7

Newcastle 6

Reading 4

 

In both those periods we have the best goal difference.

 

Last 10 games we have conceded less than half the goals

Compared to 6 of those!

 

Interesting stats, Nick.

 

I dont think anyone, including me, is denying that we have tightened up at the back. But one thing we havent done is worked out to power-on or shut-up-shop once in the lead; we are still leaking points having got ourselves into a winning position. Additionally, it remains to be seen if that start, resulting from a dire transfer window and pre-season, has already dealt the "death blow" to the season, that we simply cannot make up for lost ground.

[alpine_saint]

I've seen us lead against man city, man utd, arsenal and chelsea.

 

Yes we are competitive, but as a curve ball to this thread, do not believe we are fit enough.

 

Or is it that we've made naff substitutions ?

[The Kraken]

How were narrow losses not being competitive? The only game they were never in seemed to be the Arsenal game. You lose 3-2 you've clearly been competitive haven't you.

 

Its the Pompey definition of "competitive". In the world of PFC being competitive essentially means winning. It looks like Nick has applied that definition here.

[Charlie Wayman]

No.

[The Kraken]

This is why it's absolute nonsense that the transfer window closes three weeks into the season. IMO, the window should close at the end of July rather than August, which would then mean that teams need to actually plan properly. In that scenario, there's no way we'd have been so tardy in getting defensive reinforcements in, and we might have been a bit tighter at the back right from the start. As I said above, we wouldn't necessarily have collected any more points in those opening games (we caught Wigan at the wrong time, I reckon we'd beat them at home now), but there wouldn't have been such a confidence crisis.

 

The window closing at the end of August makes little sense to me. It serves almost as an "oh f*ck it, I forget to get that centre back" type of opportunity. And I'd say it probably encourages overspending as a last minute roll of the dice for clubs; better to be safe than sorry and get an extra player in, just in case. Get it closed by August, that's plenty of time for clubs to get themselves sorted. It also stops any last minute poaching of players and one club being up the spout after a whole summer of preparation and then one of the big boys swoops in last minute for a their star player.

[VectisSaint]

I would put it more down to fitness of the mind (i.e. ability to concentrate 100% over 95 mins) rather than fitness of the body...

They are not either/ors. Fitness of the body leads directly to fitness of the mind. Ability to concentrate depends to a very large extent on not being tired.

[tajjuk]

Good stuff.

 

Shows how criticial the next 6 games are. 2 "mustn't lose" away games against Villa and Wigan, plus tough games against Man United, Man City, Chelsea and Everton. Its very unlikely we'll get anything out of United and Chelsea away, plus City at home is an almighty challenge. Really need to capitalise with the other games; if we lose points to either of Villa and/or Wigan it'll be an enormous blow.

 

I think we need to win one of those away games, maybe both. At the very least avoid defeat.

 

Anything against City, Utd or Chelsea is a bonus.

 

Everton at home is winnable on our current form, but I'd take a point.

[Barry Sanchez]

We are very lightweight, last season we got away with it this season we have no chance of doing so, we have been competitive in some games but not enough in others, the team does not and is not good enough I believe as it stands to survive, the blame there lies either with one or two people.

[saintbob40]

I don't think a team that gets an away draw at Stoke can be called lightweight if you are thinking physically.

 

If you are thinking in terms of quality in depth I would agree as shown with Clyne not being available and its repurcusions to the team. Fonte situation to follow.......

 

We need a goalkeeper, a right sided centre back who can fill in at RB and another defensive midfielder to cover for JC and MS. Then we will stay up.

[Thedelldays]

I think we need to win one of those away games, maybe both. At the very least avoid defeat.

 

Anything against City, Utd or Chelsea is a bonus.

 

Everton at home is winnable on our current form, but I'd take a point.

it shoudnt be..we really need to beat one of them at home...

[Dig Dig]

it shoudnt be..we really need to beat one of them at home...

 

 

Not strictly true that. The need to beat one of those will be based on how we do against those around us and just above.

 

Lose to Villa for example and then it becomes important IMO

[Barry Sanchez]

I don't think a team that gets an away draw at Stoke can be called lightweight if you are thinking physically.

 

If you are thinking in terms of quality in depth I would agree as shown with Clyne not being available and its repurcusions to the team. Fonte situation to follow.......

 

We need a goalkeeper, a right sided centre back who can fill in at RB and another defensive midfielder to cover for JC and MS. Then we will stay up.

 

They bullied us into a draw, that 2nd half was a battering, we still should of won though.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

The turning point was the return of Cork. Forget all the big money signings, he's been our most important player this season.

[Charlie Wayman]

should of won though.

 

should HAVE for F's sake, it's a verb not an fudging preposition

[Barry Sanchez]

should HAVE for F's sake, it's a verb not an fudging preposition

 

Charlie, you must be a blast at office parties...........................

[Doctoroncall]

Charlie, you must be a blast at office parties...........................

 

Is that from experience Mr Negative?

[tajjuk]

it shoudnt be..we really need to beat one of them at home...

 

If we need to beat one of them at home I think we are in trouble, it's certainly possible as Wigan showed last year and QPR against Chelsea. With tough games against rivals, cup games, champions league games top players can sometimes take their eye of the ball against teams they are expected to beat.

 

We need 22 points to get to 40 from 18 games.

 

6 wins, 4 draws.

 

Best chances for wins are the home games against West Brom, Stoke, QPR, West Ham and away games against Villa, Wigan, Newcastle, Norwich, Reading and Sunderland.

 

Outside chances against Everton and Liverpool at home, Swansea away.

 

'Nil Pointers' for me are Chelsea, Utd, Spurs away and City, Chelsea at home.

 

So really 22 points from 13 games.

[Barry Sanchez]

If we need to beat one of them at home I think we are in trouble, it's certainly possible as Wigan showed last year and QPR against Chelsea. With tough games against rivals, cup games, champions league games top players can sometimes take their eye of the ball against teams they are expected to beat.

 

We need 22 points to get to 40 from 18 games.

 

6 wins, 4 draws.

 

Best chances for wins are the home games against West Brom, Stoke, QPR, West Ham and away games against Villa, Wigan, Newcastle, Norwich, Reading and Sunderland.

 

Outside chances against Everton and Liverpool at home, Swansea away.

 

'Nil Pointers' for me are Chelsea, Utd, Spurs away and City, Chelsea at home.

 

So really 22 points from 13 games.

 

Yes thats going to happen with the tanned ons acquisitions and tactical nous, at least Cortese knows what he is doing when it comes to buying as he had the foresight to purchase Mayuka.......................

[Professor]

The stats show an improvement and congrats to NickG for researching them, but they do tell another story. That is, that many fans were of the opinion that the squad at the time of pre-season was inadequate, and Adkins was probably of a similar view given his statemensts about team strengthening. Ramirez and Yoshida were not added in time to be aclimatised into the squad in pre-season and when Yoshida was brought in he was initially played out of position. The addtion of four promising teenagers to the squad was optimistic and it was unlikely that all would make the grade immediately. JWP was tried and dropped from a regular starting place so only Shaw has been a success so far. There is a strong case for saying that Nick's stats confirm that more should have been done to recruit better players before so many points were lost. The team has a struggle ahead unless the lesson has been learnt and real strengthening takes place this month, not just more squad players.

[Barry Sanchez]

The stats show an improvement and congrats to NickG for researching them, but they do tell another story. That is, that many fans were of the opinion that the squad at the time of pre-season was inadequate, and Adkins was probably of a similar view given his statemensts about team strengthening. Ramirez and Yoshida were not added in time to be aclimatised into the squad in pre-season and when Yoshida was brought in he was initially played out of position. The addtion of four promising teenagers to the squad was optimistic and it was unlikely that all would make the grade immediately. JWP was tried and dropped from a regular starting place so only Shaw has been a success so far. There is a strong case for saying that Nick's stats confirm that more should have been done to recruit better players before so many points were lost. The team has a struggle ahead unless the lesson has been learnt and real strengthening takes place this month, not just more squad players.

 

Thats true and my whole point but someone has to be resonsible for this? We knew we were promoted in May, why did it take so long nearly 8 months to realise that our squad is inadequate?

[Dig Dig]

Thats true and my whole point but someone has to be resonsible for this? We knew we were promoted in May, why did it take so long nearly 8 months to realise that our squad is inadequate?

 

Is the correct answer Adkins?

[Barry Sanchez]

Or Cortese, throw in a bit of Reed and we have one inadequate team, a great collection of promise and hairdressing ability though.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Thats true and my whole point but someone has to be resonsible for this? We knew we were promoted in May, why did it take so long nearly 8 months to realise that our squad is inadequate?

 

Riddle me this:

 

A) The squad is stronger now, than it was in May. So it hasn't taken 8 months has it?

 

B) At the half-way point (or just over) we are not in the relegation places. Granted we are only out of it by GD, but clearly we are competitive.

[Sour Mash]

Just seen that 4 out of our next 5 games are away and our next two home games are to Everton and Man City - pretty tough run that. Still think we should have got greater breathing space from the bottom 3 as a result of our "easier" run of games.

[Dig Dig]

Just seen that 4 out of our next 5 games are away and our next two home games are to Everton and Man City - pretty tough run that. Still think we should have got greater breathing space from the bottom 3 as a result of our "easier" run of games.

 

Yep, probably the difference between a season long relegation battle and the ability to look up a league a little more

[lordswoodsaints]

There was obviously some almighty fook up in the summer transfer window by somebody or it might of just been a case of not being able to tempt the chosen targets to join,either way somebody didn't do their homework so I would expect that they should be pulling out all the stops to rectify it in this window...... going back to the original post,I think we are competing as well as could be expected,it was never going to be all rosey and talk of pushing for Europe probably didn't help but if we survive relegation then I'm sure everybody will be happy and it will be judged as successful.

[Barry Sanchez]

Riddle me this:

 

A) The squad is stronger now, than it was in May. So it hasn't taken 8 months has it?

 

B) At the half-way point (or just over) we are not in the relegation places. Granted we are only out of it by GD, but clearly we are competitive.

 

By your argument we are competitive for relegation? As we are only off the 3 places by GD? The squad is stronger now but is it strong enough and strong enough to be competitive in this Legaue for 38 games? Obviously not as we are trying to buy players now, thats a sure sign we failed to do so in the previous window, this window is for tinkering not for wholesale changes, I believe we have to take that risk to stay up.

[Dig Dig]

There was obviously some almighty fook up in the summer transfer window by somebody or it might of just been a case of not being able to tempt the chosen targets to join,either way somebody didn't do their homework so I would expect that they should be pulling out all the stops to rectify it in this window...... going back to the original post,I think we are competing as well as could be expected,it was never going to be all rosey and talk of pushing for Europe probably didn't help but if we survive relegation then I'm sure everybody will be happy and it will be judged as successful.

 

Do you mean from the club or on here?

[KelvinsRightGlove]

By your argument we are competitive for relegation? As we are only off the 3 places by GD? The squad is stronger now but is it strong enough and strong enough to be competitive in this Legaue for 38 games? Obviously not as we are trying to buy players now, thats a sure sign we failed to do so in the previous window, this window is for tinkering not for wholesale changes, I believe we have to take that risk to stay up.

 

Of the starting XI how many do you think need changing?

 

I wouldn't say wholesale changes are at all necessary, or even helpful.

[Barry Sanchez]

Goalkeeper.

At least one centre back.

Left Back cover for Shaw.

Winger needed.

Striker needed to give Lambert competition, its obvious Adkins does not think he is up to it in that position hence him playing a centre forward as a £7 Million winger.

[Barry Sanchez]

Of the starting XI how many do you think need changing?

 

I wouldn't say wholesale changes are at all necessary, or even helpful.

 

I wouldn't say relegation is helpful either but lack of ambition in the previous transfer window could cost us just that.

Edited 8 January, 2013 by Barry Sanchez

[Halo Stickman]

Obviously, the addition of those players have helped, but I think NickG’s stats also show that individual players, the team as a collective, the manager and more or less everyone else associated with the club have been on a learning curve.

 

Fortunately, that curve appears to be heading in an upwards direction; let’s hope it continues to do so, preferably exponentially.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I wouldn't say relegation is helpful either but lack of ambition in the previous transfer window cost us just that.

 

Eurgh, christ knows why I keep biting. But how exactly did we not show ambition?

 

We signed a RB linked with UTD and looks to be a very good prospect. An International captain. An international CB. The player of the tournament from the previous African cup of Nations. And a highly sought after 21 year old thought of as being amongst one of the best prospects on the continent.

 

We also effectively traded a back-up striker for a younger, more mobile striker that scored more goals last season.

 

We also broke our record transfer fee twice.

[Barry Sanchez]

The question you have to ask yourself after all of that was £30 Million wirth it for what we got?

I say no we were royally off.

[Edmonton Saint]

The four points that Gazzaniga cost us against Norwich and Swansea will be the nail that slams shut our relegation coffin I am afraid. They were points we couldn't afford to drop,but drop them we did. Adkins inability to sort out the goalkeeping situation last summer will be our death knell which will lead to our eventual demise.

[Itchen_block4]

Goalkeeper.

At least one centre back.

Left Back cover for Shaw.

Winger needed.

Striker needed to give Lambert competition, its obvious Adkins does not think he is up to it in that position hence him playing a centre forward as a £7 Million winger.

 

Except that last one, those are all plausible things we could do this month and so far we're seeing attempts to address 2 of those and we're only a week into the wiindow. Lambert is so influential that he is always in the team regardless of form because we haven't worked out how to play without him. Rodriguez is in an impossible situation here, as would any striker we could realistically afford or attract. We're only going to find an alternative if we are forced to by Lambert getting injured or sold. If you were the manager, would you drop Lambert? Possibly if we had Aguero or Falcao in the wings, but otherwise I highly doubt it.

 

As for ambition, it's clearly there. You are right in saying that £30m is a lot of money, but the player's we've signed are all young enough to serve us for a good few seasons and we won't need to go to the expense of replacing them next season, so we will have less to do next summer. If we stay up, which I think we will, we're in a very good position to push on with plenty of young, talented players.

[lydlinch saints]

Eurgh, christ knows why I keep biting. But how exactly did we not show ambition?

 

We signed a RB linked with UTD and looks to be a very good prospect. An International captain. An international CB. The player of the tournament from the previous African cup of Nations. And a highly sought after 21 year old thought of as being amongst one of the best prospects on the continent.

 

We also effectively traded a back-up striker for a younger, more mobile striker that scored more goals last season.

 

We also broke our record transfer fee twice.

 

All this and we will still be in the bottom 3 saturday. with a manager who is completely out of his depth

[PhilippineSaint]

All this and we will still be in the bottom 3 saturday. with a manager who is completely out of his depth

 

As we are not in the bottom three now, how can we still be in it on Saturday, just for clarification of course?

[Matthew Le Tissier]

Goalkeeper.

At least one centre back.

Left Back cover for Shaw.

Winger needed.

Striker needed to give Lambert competition, its obvious Adkins does not think he is up to it in that position hence him playing a centre forward as a £7 Million winger.

 

Yep

[John B]

Obviously, the addition of those players have helped, but I think NickG’s stats also show that individual players, the team as a collective, the manager and more or less everyone else associated with the club have been on a learning curve.

 

Fortunately, that curve appears to be heading in an upwards direction; let’s hope it continues to do so, preferably exponentially.

 

Until we meet teams which are in form we have had it pretty easy recently even Arsenal were below par when we played them

[NickG]

Until we meet teams which are in form we have had it pretty easy recently even Arsenal were below par when we played them

 

Arsenal had won their last four games, scoring nearly 4 goals per game leading up to their visit, think its fair to say they were in form.

[alpine_saint]

The stats show an improvement and congrats to NickG for researching them, but they do tell another story. That is, that many fans were of the opinion that the squad at the time of pre-season was inadequate, and Adkins was probably of a similar view given his statemensts about team strengthening. Ramirez and Yoshida were not added in time to be aclimatised into the squad in pre-season and when Yoshida was brought in he was initially played out of position. The addtion of four promising teenagers to the squad was optimistic and it was unlikely that all would make the grade immediately. JWP was tried and dropped from a regular starting place so only Shaw has been a success so far. There is a strong case for saying that Nick's stats confirm that more should have been done to recruit better players before so many points were lost. The team has a struggle ahead unless the lesson has been learnt and real strengthening takes place this month, not just more squad players.

 

Yep. Good post.