CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 All these 'nothing can go wrong with the Don in charge' posts are starting to remind me of those 'this ship is unsinkable' headlines from a while back ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 All these 'nothing can go wrong with the Don in charge' posts are starting to remind me of those 'this ship is unsinkable' headlines from a while back ... i bet pompey fans thought the same when gadamack took them to FA Cup glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 (edited) i bet pompey fans thought the same when gadamack took them to FA Cup glory Relax, i've already got my £1,000 prepared for pledging to the 'Saints Supporters Trust,' when the time comes. Come the revolution my friends! Come the revolution! Edited 7 January, 2013 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 i bet pompey fans thought the same when gadamack took them to FA Cup glory Yeah, but the Liebherr family aren't exactly a bunch of Russian Oligarch, money-laundering, war-lords now are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 All these 'nothing can go wrong with the Don in charge' posts are starting to remind me of those 'this ship is unsinkable' headlines from a while back ... Of course things can go wrong - always risks involved with all this, but we if we consider his background, the way Marcus operated around debt free investmnet and growth, then it points to a policy of minimising risk and of a planned and structured investment that would have contingency for relegation etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Not worried at all because all we have to go on is rumour and we have had billions of those which have turned out to be false. The loans are un-explained and could be for anything. I think it would ne nice if we knew what they were for and if we are still being funded by Markus family. If we are not then tell us. That is what I would like. The PL is different from when we were last there. The money is sky (literally) high now. Next year it get's even bigger so I can understand the gamble. If we stay in it we can push on. If we go down then we lose the players we have bought and re-group. We are in a different place from when Wilde did his gamble. He put the future of the club on one last roll of the dice. If we spend £20m on players and go down we will sell them off and get some of the money back. These are not over the hill players near the end of their careers like it was before. We have grouped together a young squad and a lot of those players have great ability and great potential. So no not worried at all. If we get the players in we are linked with it will take the club forward even more. If we do survive in the league then next year we will not need to spend anywhere near as much as most positions will have a quality player playing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 All these 'nothing can go wrong with the Don in charge' posts are starting to remind me of those 'this ship is unsinkable' headlines from a while back ... So so true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Of course things can go wrong - always risks involved with all this' date=' but we if we consider his background, the way Marcus operated around debt free investmnet and growth, then it points to a policy of minimising risk and of a planned and structured investment that would have contingency for relegation etc.[/quote'] In a business sense yes but we are not relying on Nicola Cortese's business acumen at 1500 on a Satuday afternoon, we are relying on the players he has sanctioned to be purchased hence me worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Funny how you've suddenly gone quiet on the accomplished prem player stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 When was the last time we bought an accomplished Premiership player? Problem as I see it is that accomplished prem players are going to be older and costly, with little resale value - Our policy is riskier to survival chances but has more potential to actually see progress. How we all see it as fans wil depend on what means most to each individual. Prem status at all costs, or evolution to see if we can eventually make a dent in the top 10/8/..etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Funny how you've suddenly gone quiet on the accomplished prem player stuff? I've got another one. Chris Makin. Two top half finishes with Sunderland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Problem as I see it is that accomplished prem players are going to be older and costly' date=' with little resale value - Our policy is riskier to survival chances but has more potential to actually see progress. How we all see it as fans wil depend on what means most to each individual. Prem status at all costs, or evolution to see if we can eventually make a dent in the top 10/8/..etc[/quote'] Thing is, I offered S Davis as an example, who had 113 Prem appearances (not to mention being an international cpt.) under his belt. His retort was Crouch, who at the time of signing had 37 Prem appearances to his name. Kind of hard to take that argument seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 There are loads of solid journeymen out there that we could get for 5-6 mil on 40k a week -probably aged 28-32 wih all teh experience in the world - and yes there may offer a better chance of survival - but at teh cost of keeping younger players out the side and that would still want to leave if relegated, yet have less value. Think we made a decision - yes we are prepared to spend both on wgaes and transfer fees for players that can increase their worth/potential, but not on those who cant - I like this, others wont , different strokes and all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 i thought the reason why we didnt have proven prem players caused us to struggle and not be able to see out games....that was the general vibe now, we dont want that..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 i thought the reason why we didnt have proven prem players caused us to struggle and not be able to see out games....that was the general vibe now, we dont want that..? Just merely saying it's not the be all and end all. There are other ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Just merely saying it's not the be all and end all. There are other ways. it pretty much was a few months ago..and the reason given why west ham have taken to the league like a duck to water.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 There are loads of solid journeymen out there that we could get for 5-6 mil on 40k a week -probably aged 28-32 wih all teh experience in the world - and yes there may offer a better chance of survival - but at teh cost of keeping younger players out the side and that would still want to leave if relegated, yet have less value. Think we made a decision - yes we are prepared to spend both on wgaes and transfer fees for players that can increase their worth/potential, but not on those who cant - I like this, others wont , different strokes and all that. The same people would only moan when these in it for the paychecks, not the opportunity players didn't perform, got us relegated and then we are stuck with them in the Championship, on massive wages and no one wanting to take them off our hands - with the likely lines being we handled our transfers so badly, didn't sign players with resale value, the money side of things has been mismanaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 it pretty much was a few months ago..and the reason given why west ham have taken to the league like a duck to water.... That worked for them. Norwich took another way. Football is an art, not a mathematic equation. There is no one 'right' way. For every West Ham there is a Mark Hughes QPR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 That worked for them. Norwich took another way. Swansea wernt exactly awash with Prem experience either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 With 30 million spent in the summer another 20 million on the training ground and the latest two players we are linked to, could be another 20 million, we are spending some serious cash - And that's before the wages! I'm sure it's fine, but I am a bit thrown by the loan, the incidents at the training ground and non contested court case. I have confidence in Cortese and I guess that should be enough, but there are plenty of examples out there of clubs that have overspent. May be we are still being bank rolled by the Family and all is well or even if we are not, we our within our means, but it still seems wierd to see players we have bought and those that we are linked to, for such vast amounts (I'm not complainig). This is probably the single most important year ever to stay up and, I just hope that isn't clouding judgement. In a word. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 That worked for them. Norwich took another way. Football is an art, not a mathematic equation. There is no one 'right' way. For every West Ham there is a Mark Hughes QPR. but, wouldnt you trust adkins to deleiver with a few older heads.....or are you saying he is no better than mark hughes. would you not trust our scouts/chairman to deliver decent older heads rather than give bosingwa £65k a week..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 All these 'nothing can go wrong with the Don in charge' posts are starting to remind me of those 'this ship is unsinkable' headlines from a while back ... It's not so much 'the Don can do no wrong' as 'the Don ISN'T doing anything wrong'. If we had were offering 3 year £60kpw contracts to players like Bosingwa (and many would have us doing that because he is 'Premier League experience' then I would be worried. As it is we are buying £12m young players who we can sell for £12m if needed. We are buying £200k houses, whilst QPR are buying £200k Ferraris and Reading have a 2 man tent. Who is going to have the most valuable assets in 3 years time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 but, wouldnt you trust adkins to deleiver with a few older heads.....or are you saying he is no better than mark hughes. would you not trust our scouts/chairman to deliver decent older heads rather than give bosingwa £65k a week..? I would have more faith in signing talented youngsters with a point to prove then a group of mercenaries. Nigel Adkins has made of a career on getting people to overperform and play good football, it would be a dramatic and suspicious change of strategy if we were to divert away from that. I do trust our scouts, which is why I am looking forward to what Astori can do if he signs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 I would have more faith in signing talented youngsters with a point to prove then a group of mercenaries. Nigel Adkins has made of a career on getting people to overperform and play good football, it would be a dramatic and suspicious change of strategy if we were to divert away from that. I do trust our scouts, which is why I am looking forward to what Astori can do if he signs. fair enough..just that a few months ago..pretty much the reason for our appalling start was no "prem experience" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 fair enough..just that a few months ago..pretty much the reason for our appalling start was no "prem experience" We are certainly more experienced after 4 months of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Nervous? Yes, but its easy to forget we paid the lowest amount of money to agents & our wage bill will be a lot less than West Ham etc. They are paying £50k pw for the likes of Cole & Nolan. We MIGHT be paying something similar for Ramirez (who knows?), but with a greater likelyhood that we will get some kind of return on our money if we sell on. Without doubt we need to slim down the squad. Barnard, Hammond, Guly, Seabourne, Dickson, Butterfield, Forecast etc's salaries would probably pay for a seasoned PL player if we were to let them go. You have to look at the combination of transfer fee, agents fee, signing on fee & players salary not just how much we have paid a player. The real answer will be in May. If we go down the likes of Ramirez, Lambert, Lallana & Shaw will probably leave. You add that up & it does not take much to get to £25m. If we stay up I can see us spending another £30m!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Thing is, I offered S Davis as an example, who had 113 Prem appearances (not to mention being an international cpt.) under his belt. His retort was Crouch, who at the time of signing had 37 Prem appearances to his name. Kind of hard to take that argument seriously. ... will get shot down for this, but I dont buy the 'prem experience' card as being the be and end all - all depends on how quickly players can adapt - and we have seen some do this quite quickly - not much more so than any normal new player entering a side. We do lack a wiser leadership head at times, someone who rallies the troops when heads go down or when defending a lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 ... will get shot down for this' date=' but I dont buy the 'prem experience' card as being the be and end all - all depends on how quickly players can adapt - and we have seen some do this quite quickly - not much more so than any normal new player entering a side. We do lack a wiser leadership head at times, someone who rallies the troops when heads go down or when defending a lead.[/quote'] I'm totally with you on this. Been saying the same since the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windmill Arm 2 Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Uneasy about how the failure to close early deals suggest we are squabbling over the exact amounts like haggling at a Moroccan rug market ? Yes STAMP STAMP STAMP I WANT I WANT I WANT BOO HOO HOO Get a grip of yourself you uber-sized spoilt grizzling fanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 At the end of the day it is their money, how they spend it is nothing we can ever have direct influence over and lets face it we were bankrupt when they turned up and if we are bankrupt when they leave we are no worse off. My view is Cortese knows there is big money to be made by staying in the Prem and in the Prem we have to stay if he is to sell at a large profit. The stakes are high but so is the prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 All these 'nothing can go wrong with the Don in charge' posts are starting to remind me of those 'this ship is unsinkable' headlines from a while back ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 ... will get shot down for this' date=' but I dont buy the 'prem experience' card as being the be and end all - all depends on how quickly players can adapt - and we have seen some do this quite quickly - not much more so than any normal new player entering a side. We do lack a wiser leadership head at times, someone who rallies the troops when heads go down or when defending a lead.[/quote'] It isn't. And I don't think anyone has suggested it is either (or at least anyone sane). What people have previously said is that the player's ability is the most important thing; but that in addition to that we're missing one or two first team players who have some significant top level experience, know how and track record. Premier League experience would be ideal of course; but a wise old head and good communicator who had been there and done it over a number of years at a top league at some point in his career. Jimmy Case is the absolute perfect example. Roy Keane was a very rare example of an inspirational leader of his team from a young age. Typically you don't get that sort of effect from someone in their early 20s. No-one is saying we need a team full of them, no-one ever has. Some people are saying that one or two of them throughout the team is perhaps a decent idea. As it is Steven Davis is really the only one we have that fits the bill on the experience front and his talent doesn't get him into the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 With 30 million spent in the summer another 20 million on the training ground and the latest two players we are linked to, could be another 20 million, we are spending some serious cash - And that's before the wages......QUOTE] Have you seen that other thread that talks about the " reputed £300 mill." that Marcus Liebherr had supposedly left for " future development in the club "? now that we are up (to the Prem.) Cortese isn't going to let go without a fight. The talent he's buying should be the basis of a good /great side ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Ok then. After Crouch. Jason Euell. Remember we also signed Andrei Kanchelskis once. Rahdi Jaidi was an accomplished Premier League player, arguably Graeme Murty after his time at Reading, captained a team that finished comfortably in the top half one year. So we have not signed one for a while? I should of added not aged, unwanted and injury prone. A Premiership player on the up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 So we have not signed one for a while? We have. Steven Davis. As it happens though I couldn't care less about it. As proven by the names i've put, 'accomplished premier league players' are not the be all and end all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docker-p Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Well I'm worried. There is absolutely no evidence that the Liebherr family is the slightest bit interested in SFC. Cortese is borrowing large sums of money, and suppliers are suing for payment. There is enough there to worry about I think. Maybe the Liebherr family are continuing to bank roll us, if so great. Maybe the suppliers who went unpaid was just an administrative slip up, and maybe the loan Cortese took out was just to cover cash flow issues, all of which means there is nothing to worry about. But without knowing the facts, yes I'm worried. Coupled that with the fact Cortese has never run any sort of business before rolling up here we should all be worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Well I'm worried. There is absolutely no evidence that the Liebherr family is the slightest bit interested in SFC. Cortese is borrowing large sums of money, and suppliers are suing for payment. There is enough there to worry about I think. Maybe the Liebherr family are continuing to bank roll us, if so great. Maybe the suppliers who went unpaid was just an administrative slip up, and maybe the loan Cortese took out was just to cover cash flow issues, all of which means there is nothing to worry about. But without knowing the facts, yes I'm worried. Coupled that with the fact Cortese has never run any sort of business before rolling up here we should all be worried. Apart from them being photographed still turning up to matches? Or are you not including that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 we have. Steven Davis. As it happens though I couldn't care less about it. As proven by the names i've put, 'accomplished premier league players' are not the be all and end all. Steven Davis is a great player but was let go by others, he actually improved at Rangers and has gone back a step since his arrival which has surprised me, we also got him on the cheap as they were in administration but never let a ****e example get in the way. I care as it means we have a chance of staying up as opposed to gambling on Millions of pounds worth of possibly mediocre players, Mayuka? Yoshida? Rodriguez? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docker-p Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Apart from them being photographed still turning up to matches? Or are you not including that? When and how often? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Steven Davis is a great player but was let go by others, he actually improved at Rangers and has gone back a step since his arrival which has surprised me, we also got him on the cheap as they were in administration but never let a ****e example get in the way. I care as it means we have a chance of staying up as opposed to gambling on Millions of pounds worth of possibly mediocre players, Mayuka? Yoshida? Rodriguez? You asked for an 'accomplished prem player' Steven Davis is just that. Not sure what your point is. Yoshida is a good player and we paid bugger all for him. £2m in this division is peanuts. Mayuka is clearly highly rated in his country and clearly has potential but do agree he's an odd transfer as he's not played. And J-Rod has looked very good when he has played. His goal on Saturday was class and showed what he is capable of. Plus he's probably still worth what we paid for him anyway, it's not like he's 30, not played and suddenly only worth £1/2m! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Davis is way more accomplished now than Crouch was when we signed him. Still choosing to neglect this. Funny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 We paid nearly £3 Million for Yoshida I thought. £3 Million for Mayuka who does not play. £7 odd Million for a winger who is a striker, he is probably worth about £3 Million, we got well done on the price. Steven Davis was not an accomplished player as he was shipped out by two teams. Neil Moss a premiership goalkeeper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 We paid nearly £3 Million for Yoshida I thought. £3 Million for Mayuka who does not play. £7 odd Million for a winger who is a striker, he is probably worth about £3 Million, we got well done on the price. Steven Davis was not an accomplished player as he was shipped out by two teams. Neil Moss a premiership goalkeeper? Played nearly 3x the amount of games Crouch did, and International Captain, and played in Europe for Rangers. Also, he wasn't exactly 'shipped out'. He was sold for £4m and then £3m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Davis is way more accomplished now than Crouch was when we signed him. Still choosing to neglect this. Funny that. No I am not and I disagree as Crouch had already performed at premiership level, it just did not work out at Villa, always been a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 No I am not and I disagree as Crouch had already performed at premiership level, it just did not work out at Villa, always been a good player. He had only played at Villa in the Prem, scoring 6 goals. Hardly performed. Davis' shipping out as you put it is wrong. He left Villa to join up with Lawrie Sanchez @ Fulham, whom he had had success with for NI & then after Lawrie left he moved to Rangers - the team he supported as a boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docker-p Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 All these 'nothing can go wrong with the Don in charge' posts are starting to remind me of those 'this ship is unsinkable' headlines from a while back ... It's quite sweet in a funny way that some people are so insulated from the reality of life they think nothing can go wrong just because they have faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 Played nearly 3x the amount of games Crouch did, and International Captain, and played in Europe for Rangers. Also, he wasn't exactly 'shipped out'. He was sold for £4m and then £3m. International captain, I shall give you that but you are seriously scraping the barrel witht that as an example, he was shipped out by Fulham to Rangers, and him playing in Europe was always going to be a guarantee playing for Rangers at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 It's quite sweet in a funny way that some people are so insulated from the reality of life they think nothing can go wrong just because they have faith. Hence my reasoning between faith in players and a God, the clappers were up in arms wailing the difference yet there is none, they have no control over either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 We paid nearly £3 Million for Yoshida I thought. £3 Million for Mayuka who does not play. £7 odd Million for a winger who is a striker, he is probably worth about £3 Million, we got well done on the price. Steven Davis was not an accomplished player as he was shipped out by two teams. Neil Moss a premiership goalkeeper? Think he was Player of the year at Villa, wasnt he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 7 January, 2013 Share Posted 7 January, 2013 He had only played at Villa in the Prem, scoring 6 goals. Hardly performed. Davis' shipping out as you put it is wrong. He left Villa to join up with Lawrie Sanchez @ Fulham, whom he had had success with for NI & then after Lawrie left he moved to Rangers - the team he supported as a boy. Sanchez dropped him at Fulham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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