In Defence of Jos Hooiveld...

[Lighthouse]

A lot of people seem to think Jos would be a complete disaster in defence, based on the results earlier on in the season but I tend to think this is a bit harsh. There is more to it than that, for example.

 

1. In the games Jos played we had Davis in midfield, not Cork. I'm yet to be convinced by Davis, we look a lot weaker as a team defensively with him in the midfield instead of JC. Cork's return from injury 'magically' coincided with our improved form and much tighter defensive displays and Jos never got the benefit of this to make him look better.

 

2. He played in defence with Fonte and Fox but never got to play along side Shaw and Yoshi, who I would argue are better players. Yoshi reads the game better and makes interceptions which keep his partner out of trouble. Shaw is just better than Fox full stop.

 

3. The Arsenal game which many will point to as one of our worst displays this season. He scored a very unfortunate o.g. he could do little about but went off injured when we were only 1-0 down. The complete collapse happened after he had gone off. I'm not saying he played well but we were absolutely dreadful when he went off.

 

4. Other defenders looked much worse than him and have since improved and looked very good, whilst Jos didn't get the chance. I'm thinking specifically of Fonte and Clyne who were both a liability at times earlier in the season. Both made a lot of crucial errors which lead to goals.

 

I think if we had to rely on Hooiveld in defence for a while it wouldn't be the end of the world. Next to Yoshi and behind Cork and Morgan I think he would do much better than we've seen so far. Last season I had him down as one of our best players and better than Fonte, in a defence which was better than any except Reading. He didn't become a bad players overnight. We need a new CB but surely JH has done enough in the past to deserve a decent second chance.

[Saint Charlie]

Just too clumsy for me. Especially against the more cultured attackers.

 

Looking at his career as a whole there is nothing to suggest he can handle this level.

 

It's a harsh league and harsh decisions are required IMO.

[Chez]

I've said all along that he was written off far too quickly on here. The players around him, the shape and formation of the side and the tough opposition need to be factored in to early season performances.

 

He had a very good game at West Ham and Stoke and given the opportunity he will do a decent job for us going forward. Scoring own goals and conceding a penalty doesn't make him a poor player. He's no world beater but he will be fine. Perfect player to mark Benteke on Saturday.

 

People forget what a massive impact he had on our promotion season. He was outstanding and fundamental to our promotion.

[Window Cleaner]

I've said all along that he was written off far too quickly on here. The players around him, the shape and formation of the side and the tough opposition need to be factored in to early season performances.

 

He had a very good game at West Ham and Stoke and given the opportunity he will do a decent job for us going forward. Scoring own goals and conceding a penalty doesn't make him a poor player. He's no world beater but he will be fine. Perfect player to mark Benteke on Saturday.

 

People forget what a massive impact he had on our promotion season. He was outstanding and fundamental to our promotion.

 

Jos will need to have another good game at Villa. Still as they have Benteke and have re-activated Bent that might be just up his street.

[Saint Charlie]

I've said all along that he was written off far too quickly on here. The players around him, the shape and formation of the side and the tough opposition need to be factored in to early season performances.

 

He had a very good game at West Ham and Stoke and given the opportunity he will do a decent job for us going forward. Scoring own goals and conceding a penalty doesn't make him a poor player. He's no world beater but he will be fine. Perfect player to mark Benteke on Saturday.

 

People forget what a massive impact he had on our promotion season. He was outstanding and fundamental to our promotion.

 

We conceded 4 and then 3 in those games. Whilst that's not all his fault we have conceded at least 2 and often more in every game he has played this season.

[Saint Garrett]

Would have been tempted to play him vs Benteke anyway, although it does leave us in a very precarious position should either Yoshi or Jos get injured. And I worry when he plays against a nippy frontline.

[monkadill]

when he came on against Chelsea his first touches imposed himself in the defence, not his fault for the result on Saturday. The middle field fell apart

[Colbury]

Whilst many on this forum were creaming themselves over how good Jos was last season, I said he was clumsy, slow and would get found out big time in the prem. I was right.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I agree with the OP - Fonte has learned to adapt his game to the demands of the Premier League and I see no reason to believe that Hooiveld should not do likewise.

 

But I do hope he's a quick learner ...

[Doctoroncall]

It's better that he partners Yoshida than Fonte, that's for sure. Obviously has some talent with his time in Europe but I don't think we have seen close to it yet, hopefully we see it Saturday.

[Horley CTFC Saint]

A lot of people seem to think Jos would be a complete disaster in defence, based on the results earlier on in the season but I tend to think this is a bit harsh. There is more to it than that, for example.

 

1. In the games Jos played we had Davis in midfield, not Cork. I'm yet to be convinced by Davis, we look a lot weaker as a team defensively with him in the midfield instead of JC. Cork's return from injury 'magically' coincided with our improved form and much tighter defensive displays and Jos never got the benefit of this to make him look better.

 

2. He played in defence with Fonte and Fox but never got to play along side Shaw and Yoshi, who I would argue are better players. Yoshi reads the game better and makes interceptions which keep his partner out of trouble. Shaw is just better than Fox full stop.

 

3. The Arsenal game which many will point to as one of our worst displays this season. He scored a very unfortunate o.g. he could do little about but went off injured when we were only 1-0 down. The complete collapse happened after he had gone off. I'm not saying he played well but we were absolutely dreadful when he went off.

 

4. Other defenders looked much worse than him and have since improved and looked very good, whilst Jos didn't get the chance. I'm thinking specifically of Fonte and Clyne who were both a liability at times earlier in the season. Both made a lot of crucial errors which lead to goals.

 

I think if we had to rely on Hooiveld in defence for a while it wouldn't be the end of the world. Next to Yoshi and behind Cork and Morgan I think he would do much better than we've seen so far. Last season I had him down as one of our best players and better than Fonte, in a defence which was better than any except Reading. He didn't become a bad players overnight. We need a new CB but surely JH has done enough in the past to deserve a decent second chance.

Thankyou! Lets start worrying if Jos or Maya get injured and look to strengthen in the meantime

[david in sweden]

apart from the fact that we looked good for short periods in the first few games, the defence was totally unprepared for the onslaught of some of the experienced Prem.strikers.

 

Clyne was slipping all over the place in the Man.U game because he had the wrong boots on, Jos' own goal in the Arsenal (A) game was very unfortunate and unavoidable - and then he was injured and went off.

To blame him for the subsequent five goals that came afterwards is cruel to say the least. When Yoshida came on -( his first app.btw).. he had no chance to adapt and with Fox at LB ..we looked very sad.

 

Yoshida continued (as it was obvious that NA wasn't going to replace the more experienced Fonte) ...even though he was very poor in some of the subsequent games.

 

Jos is a bit unorthodox - but he is a brave, do-or-die type defender (as was Michael Svensson) - although not in the same class - of course). I think he deserves his chance and will get it because we have no alternatives at present.

[melmacian_saint]

I honestly don't understand why Jos gets so much defense in this forum while Fonte and Yoshida (and Clyne for the matter) get so much stick if things go wrong. Is it because he answers your tweets?

 

Hooiveld is too static and often defends too deep because he does not have the stamina or technical skill to challenge any PL striker without it being in the air or bulldozing him completely a la RVP. Hence why he settles deep and waits for a ball to come. This unsettles the back 4 and especially the fellow CB as he is constantly forced to look at what he is doing and try not to shatter the defensive line apart. Some people will claim he's bossy but what he does is nothing more than defending on his own, almost as if there's no one else there. He has not only scored 2 own goals, both because of his lack of ability but has been at fault for a couple more and the overall stress in the back four because of his reluctancy in communicating and coordinating with the other 3 and if it wasn't for Davis' penalty saves and RVP and Silva's charity none of you would be defending him.

 

People seem to forget that the defense started to settle down way before we got our clean sheets. In fact, it settled down in the Aston Villa game at home, and after a defeat at Everton the only other calamitous defensive show was against West Ham with...Hooiveld back on the side! (Oh, and shall we not forget his gifting of anything out of the game to Fulham with a show of how not to defend low balls into the area) And yet people said what good a job he made of Andy Carroll, but forget to say how he allowed them in the area by acting as a GK for their 2nd goal. How Fonte had to close down from his side for their 4th because he was messing around out of position and was too slow to come back. Everytime he's on the pitch, either Fonte or Yoshida are constantly looking at where he is, and this is what causes them to make mistakes. They are too worried making up for Jos' poor positioning.

 

Jos' season was only good because of the goals he scored. He is not a great defender, and can get away in the Championship because he is bigger than anyone in Hoofville.

I fail to see how any of his mistakes in 7 GAMES were any better or not worth the axing shouts Jose recieved after his bad day v. Reading. Oh btw, where was Hooiveld when Fonte "fouled" the Middlesbrough player? Yeup, you guessed it, OUT OF HIS POSITION. It was Hooiveld who was meant to be on that player, not Fonte. Oh and another, do you know who had been marking RVP for the whole game v.ManU bar that exact corner?? You guessed it again!!!

 

Also the fact that you fail to acknowledge Fonte as our most consistent performer at the back so far shows that you really just want to blindly get Jos to play out of loyalty or whatever feelings we should have to him. The MLT syndrome strikes again.

[Saint Fan CaM]

I honestly don't understand why Jos gets so much defense in this forum while Fonte and Yoshida (and Clyne for the matter) get so much stick if things go wrong. Is it because he answers your tweets?

 

Hooiveld is too static and often defends too deep because he does not have the stamina or technical skill to challenge any PL striker without it being in the air or bulldozing him completely a la RVP. Hence why he settles deep and waits for a ball to come. This unsettles the back 4 and especially the fellow CB as he is constantly forced to look at what he is doing and try not to shatter the defensive line apart. Some people will claim he's bossy but what he does is nothing more than defending on his own, almost as if there's no one else there. He has not only scored 2 own goals, both because of his lack of ability but has been at fault for a couple more and the overall stress in the back four because of his reluctancy in communicating and coordinating with the other 3 and if it wasn't for Davis' penalty saves and RVP and Silva's charity none of you would be defending him.

 

People seem to forget that the defense started to settle down way before we got our clean sheets. In fact, it settled down in the Aston Villa game at home, and after a defeat at Everton the only other calamitous defensive show was against West Ham with...Hooiveld back on the side! (Oh, and shall we not forget his gifting of anything out of the game to Fulham with a show of how not to defend low balls into the area) And yet people said what good a job he made of Andy Carroll, but forget to say how he allowed them in the area by acting as a GK for their 2nd goal. How Fonte had to close down from his side for their 4th because he was messing around out of position and was too slow to come back. Everytime he's on the pitch, either Fonte or Yoshida are constantly looking at where he is, and this is what causes them to make mistakes. They are too worried making up for Jos' poor positioning.

 

Jos' season was only good because of the goals he scored. He is not a great defender, and can get away in the Championship because he is bigger than anyone in Hoofville.

I fail to see how any of his mistakes in 7 GAMES were any better or not worth the axing shouts Jose recieved after his bad day v. Reading. Oh btw, where was Hooiveld when Fonte "fouled" the Middlesbrough player? Yeup, you guessed it, OUT OF HIS POSITION. It was Hooiveld who was meant to be on that player, not Fonte. Oh and another, do you know who had been marking RVP for the whole game v.ManU bar that exact corner?? You guessed it again!!!

 

Also the fact that you fail to acknowledge Fonte as our most consistent performer at the back so far shows that you really just want to blindly get Jos to play out of loyalty or whatever feelings we should have to him. The MLT syndrome strikes again.

 

An excellent expose.

[Chez]

I honestly don't understand why Jos gets so much defense in this forum while Fonte and Yoshida (and Clyne for the matter) get so much stick if things go wrong.

Fonte, Yoshida and Clyne haven't recieved as much stick as Jos on here. Jos has hardly played in the last few months so the other players will have come under the spotlight more. Jos has been slated right left and centre. I think I've been pretty much the only one on here saying that "he'll do just fine" since he was dropped. He'll make mistakes, all players do, but he'll do a decent job until Fonte returns.

 

Hooiveld is too static and often defends too deep because he does not have the stamina or technical skill to challenge any PL striker without it being in the air or bulldozing him completely a la RVP.

He's a big centre back. That's why he wins so many headers. With size you tend to have to sacrifice mobility. I've never seen a comment about his lack of fitness before. What's you obsession with his failure to prevent the best striker in the division from scoring?

 

This unsettles the back 4 and especially the fellow CB as he is constantly forced to look at what he is doing and try not to shatter the defensive line apart.

when he joined us the immediate result was that we looked a million miles more solid, improving Fonte's game as well.

 

He has not only scored 2 own goals, both because of his lack of ability but has been at fault for a couple more

own goals are an occupational hazard for defenders.

 

the overall stress in the back four because of his reluctancy in communicating and coordinating with the other 3

so he doesn't communicate now? Tell me another.

 

People seem to forget that the defense started to settle down way before we got our clean sheets. In fact, it settled down in the Aston Villa game at home, and after a defeat at Everton the only other calamitous defensive show was against West Ham

I certainly forgot, probably perhaps because it never happened. In the WBA and Spurs games we were a total shambles. No sign of Jos in either game.

 

And yet people said what good a job he made of Andy Carroll,

He had a decent game keeping Carroll extremely quiet. When we play them again I know which centre back I'd want to mark him.

 

Everytime he's on the pitch, either Fonte or Yoshida are constantly looking at where he is, and this is what causes them to make mistakes.

They should be looking where each other are. But do they only make mistakes when Jos plays?

 

Jos' season was only good because of the goals he scored.

rubbish, he was outstanding last season and his defensive ability was fundamental to our promotion. Save the rewriting of history for the skates. Edited 6 January, 2013 by Chez

[Chez]

An excellent expose.

 

not really. It's an opinion, no more no less.

[dronskisaint]

Fonte, Yoshida and Clyne haven't recieved as much stick as Jos on here. Jos has hardly played in the last few months so the other players will have come under the spotlight more. Jos has been slated right left and centre. I think I've been pretty much the only one on here saying that "he'll do just fine" since he was dropped. He'll make mistakes, all players do, but he'll do a decent job until Fonte returns.

 

He's a big centre back. That's why he wins so many headers. With size you tend to have to sacrifice mobility. I've never seen a comment about his lack of fitness before. What's you obsession with his failure to prevent the best striker in the division from scoring?

 

when he joined us the immediate result was that we looked a million miles more solid, improving Fonte's game as well.

 

own goals are an occupational hazard for defenders.

 

so he doesn't communicate now? Tell me another.

 

 

I certainly forgot, probably perhaps because it never happened. In the WBA and Spurs games we were a total shambles. No sign of Jos in either game.

 

He had a decent game keeping Carroll extremely quiet. When we play them again I know which centre back I'd want to mark him.

 

They should be looking where each other are. But do they only make mistakes when Jos plays?

 

rubbish, he was outstanding last season and his defensive ability was fundamental to our promotion. Save the rewriting of history for the skates.

 

A valid and reasoned opinion on an opinion in my opinion.

 

I also believe that Jos is capable of being a solid and competent defender at this level. He strikes me as being very much a confidence player - evidenced by his spell at Celtic where, in my opinion, he was treated poorly by fans and management but we all have our own crosses to bear in that department.

 

When he was playing regularly last season he played with enough skill and vision to make me (once again my opinion) think that he would not struggle at this level - I think it was probably the right decision to take him out of the firing line following the early matches and rebuild his confidence and we did have a competent replacement in Yoshida. It seems that he has the confidence of the rest of the team and I'd be comfortable with him coming in - not sure why people are making judgements based on so little after what he showed he was capable of last year?

[melmacian_saint]

so he doesn't communicate now? Tell me another.

 

I certainly forgot, probably perhaps because it never happened. In the WBA and Spurs games we were a total shambles. No sign of Jos in either game.

 

He had a decent game keeping Carroll extremely quiet. When we play them again I know which centre back I'd want to mark him.

 

They should be looking where each other are. But do they only make mistakes when Jos plays?

 

 

Evidence shows he doesn't communicate. When he came in against Chelsea, Yoshida looked around for him more often in those minutes than him and Fonte together for each other in all the matches they've been in for.

 

Spurs and WBA were poor team performances, and apart from Tottenham's first goal where Clyne left Bale unmarked none of them came from a clear defensive error. Just like Everton, where our midfield failed to put any pressure on their fast AMs. Also wasn't him being "big" the reason he played at Stoke? If you watch the replays, Jones is miles behind him, and he's not small, but still manages to get to the ball first and backheel it past him without Jos even making an attempt to challenge the ball. When a ball is being played from wide areas you HAVE to being watching out for the strikers. Zero tactical awareness right there, he clearly had no idea someone was coming for it. And again, what is he doing in the six yard box by himself????? I expected that to have gone out of his mind after the Fulham incidents but clearly no...

 

His ideal of "defending= just tackle/sweep/remove any ball coming towards the goal regardless" works for physical and strong leagues like the Championship or the Scandinavian leagues. Exactly where he did well. In the Prem you need more composure, it's more about tactical awareness, good positioning and anticipation, defending ways that can expose your goal rather than reacting to balls that are thrown at you, because you're playing against super-athletes anyway. Falls short of that IMO.

[SaintWill71]

His own goal v Arsenal was not 'very unfortunate', just very clumsy

[saintbob40]

The bigger issue is at CM where JWP and Davis are patently not holding/defensive mids. We need cover for JC and Morgan + ideally someone who can cover both RB and (right footed) CB.

[Leicestersaint]

Well let's hope you're right and that he can step up and take his chance. He looks tooslow and cumbersome to me - and gives away too many own goals, penalties and free kicks - but maybe he can come good.

[Lighthouse]

His own goal v Arsenal was not 'very unfortunate', just very clumsy

 

And Lallana, Lambert, Gaston, Puncheon, JRod and Morgan have all had very 'clumsy' shots which landed in the car park this year. The difference being the ball goes out for a goal kick and 10 minutes later it is pretty much forgotten about.

 

The joys of being a defender, all the headers, tackles and interceptions are pretty much forgotten about as soon as that ball rebounds off the 'keeper onto your shin and into the empty net from 2 feet out.

[Lighthouse]

Has been an absolute monster the last 2 games. No he isn't quick but the, 'get Forren in ASAP' comments are looking a bit obsolete this evening.

[Thedelldays]

have to agree....does not look out of place in the prem

[RobM]

He seems to be a confidence player, as he is getting better with each game he plays well in. I'll withhold judgement until he makes a mistake to see how he reacts, but so far so very good.

[Miltonroader07]

IMO he has good or bad games, cant do that in the Prem

[Olallana]

Maybe Yoshida is getting the best out of his CB partners?

 

First with Fonte this season after 9-10 games and now even Jos looks very decent (maybe even should say looking good....)

[Ewell]

Has been an absolute monster the last 2 games. No he isn't quick but the, 'get Forren in ASAP' comments are looking a bit obsolete this evening.

 

Spot on, absolutely outstanding today and was up there with Rickie and Jack Cork for my MOM award. He got a lot of stick earlier this season and it is nice to see he has turned it around.

[Saint Martini]

He had a great game today and was my MOTM but he has one problem that becomes a rather big one with our playing style and it is his lack of speed the first few yards. On the other hand, he managed to out-sprint Aguero today....

[saints-cris]

He's clearly a confidence player. He has been very good, and im really glad for the guy.

[Saint Garrett]

Outstanding today, my mom. Was a but worried about him v aguero, but he completely bossed Dzeko. Too drawer.

[Verbal Kint]

Whether he is the long term answer is open to debate, but having been ripped apart early season and written off it's fantastic to see him coming back so strong.

 

The word 'character' is overused in football but he has shown a huge amount of it. Good lad jos

[melmacian_saint]

Opportunists galore.

 

Credit where due though, he was good today.

[Chez]

bring back Chris Perry

[Berkshire Saint]

Immense today. Didn't think he had it in him!

[Saint Garrett]

Not bad for our 4th choice CB !

[Matthew Le Tissier]

Jos was very good today. IMO its not an ability issue its a confidence issue. Lack of brings nerves and clumsiness . A run of games he main regain his confidence. Can't fault his performance today. Long may it continue .

[JoeShmoe]

Jos was very good today. IMO its not an ability issue its a confidence issue. Lack of brings nerves and clumsiness . A run of games he main regain his confidence. Can't fault his performance today. Long may it continue .

 

Agreed, and its nice to see as obviously a good guy but he was all over the place early in the season but like others has really come on since Xmas

[Lazlo78]

Jos is one of the first players I've actually given up on this season (while still believing that de Ridder would come good ), so it's nice to see that he has improved a lot. Sorry Jos, won't happen again, I promise...

 

Time will tell whether he's a starter or a reserve, but I no longer dread to see his name on the team sheet. He adds depth and competition for places as well as an extra tactical dimension due to his height and physique.

[Dig Dig]

Very solid game today, won everything and didn't get turned too easily on the floor. Obviously adapting. Think he'll always be a little fragile at this level but no way near as bad as people have made out in the past

[Barry the Badger]

Love Jos. Even the way he waves his arms when trying to turn, like he's swimming.

[GAS]

A lot of people seem to think Jos would be a complete disaster in defence, based on the results earlier on in the season but I tend to think this is a bit harsh. There is more to it than that, for example.

 

1. In the games Jos played we had Davis in midfield, not Cork. I'm yet to be convinced by Davis, we look a lot weaker as a team defensively with him in the midfield instead of JC. Cork's return from injury 'magically' coincided with our improved form and much tighter defensive displays and Jos never got the benefit of this to make him look better.

 

2. He played in defence with Fonte and Fox but never got to play along side Shaw and Yoshi, who I would argue are better players. Yoshi reads the game better and makes interceptions which keep his partner out of trouble. Shaw is just better than Fox full stop.

 

3. The Arsenal game which many will point to as one of our worst displays this season. He scored a very unfortunate o.g. he could do little about but went off injured when we were only 1-0 down. The complete collapse happened after he had gone off. I'm not saying he played well but we were absolutely dreadful when he went off.

 

4. Other defenders looked much worse than him and have since improved and looked very good, whilst Jos didn't get the chance. I'm thinking specifically of Fonte and Clyne who were both a liability at times earlier in the season. Both made a lot of crucial errors which lead to goals.

 

I think if we had to rely on Hooiveld in defence for a while it wouldn't be the end of the world. Next to Yoshi and behind Cork and Morgan I think he would do much better than we've seen so far. Last season I had him down as one of our best players and better than Fonte, in a defence which was better than any except Reading. He didn't become a bad players overnight. We need a new CB but surely JH has done enough in the past to deserve a decent second chance.

Jos played great today. But as we are pressing high up the field he has far less of players running at him and basically less defending to do. Also Davies had a great game today and has been improving each game. Maybe this barca philosophy is working? all players seem to know just what to do and how to play - a good system?

[ottery st mary]

Jos played very well today.

 

Well done big man...keep it up.

 

COYS

[Lazlo78]

Jos played great today. But as we are pressing high up the field he has far less of players running at him and basically less defending to do. Also Davies had a great game today and has been improving each game. Maybe this barca philosophy is working? all players seem to know just what to do and how to play - a good system?

 

I would assume it works just the other way round when our pressing is unsuccesful. While we press high up the field our defensive line is very high too, which means that heavier players like Jos can't always sit deep and face attackers coming at them - they need to be more mobile, to make longer runs, to work sideways, make quick turns, and make quick decisions further up the field than usual. We gamble more to gain possession and consequently the defenders sometimes have to pick up the pieces with a lot of team mates much further upfield...

 

If that's true then it's even more impressive how Jos has improved. Defenders like Hill, Mertesacker, Dunne, Samba, Huth, Hangeland are all examples of players that IMHO would probably struggle in our tactic - they like to defend with their back to the goal and use their physique to dominate in the air. Pressing high upfield probably isn't on their Christmas wish list...

[ant]

Looking a lot more composed and generally in a happier place at the moment. Yes, Schneiderlin and Cork do a lot of the hard work in defence but that's why they're there. As a CDM in a 4-2-3-1 a hefty part of the job is to relieve pressure on the CBs.

 

If he can continue to play at the same level it gives the manager a nice (and somewhat unexpected) selection headache.

[skintsaint]

Towered over Dzeko many times last night which isn't an easy feat..that's the sort of player he looks good against.

 

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Hooiveld can stand in for Fonte easily enough because in truth there never was all that much of a difference in class between them - at least not that I could identify anyway. Both are perfectly capable - but not outstanding - defenders who took rather longer to adapt to the pace of the Premier League than you'd like.

 

So with the equally good Yoshida to add to the mix, this area of the squad would appear to be okay. But you can always improve, and finding a true top quality Centre Back - a Michael Svensson type - would make a real difference.

 

Sent from my old laptop using my fingers.

[david in sweden]

A lot of people seem to think Jos would be a complete disaster in defence, based on the results earlier on in the season but I tend to think this is a bit harsh. There is more to it than that, for example.

 

1. In the games Jos played we had Davis in midfield, not Cork. I'm yet to be convinced by Davis, we look a lot weaker as a team defensively with him in the midfield instead of JC. Cork's return from injury 'magically' coincided with our improved form and much tighter defensive displays and Jos never got the benefit of this to make him look better.

 

2. He played in defence with Fonte and Fox but never got to play along side Shaw and Yoshi, who I would argue are better players. Yoshi reads the game better and makes interceptions which keep his partner out of trouble. Shaw is just better than Fox full stop.

 

3. The Arsenal game which many will point to as one of our worst displays this season. He scored a very unfortunate o.g. he could do little about but went off injured when we were only 1-0 down. The complete collapse happened after he had gone off. I'm not saying he played well but we were absolutely dreadful when he went off.

 

4. Other defenders looked much worse than him and have since improved and looked very good, whilst Jos didn't get the chance. I'm thinking specifically of Fonte and Clyne who were both a liability at times earlier in the season. Both made a lot of crucial errors which lead to goals.

 

I think if we had to rely on Hooiveld in defence for a while it wouldn't be the end of the world. Next to Yoshi and behind Cork and Morgan I think he would do much better than we've seen so far. Last season I had him down as one of our best players and better than Fonte, in a defence which was better than any except Reading. He didn't become a bad players overnight. We need a new CB but surely JH has done enough in the past to deserve a decent second chance.

 

 

agree with your headline..and most of your points. Clyne has learned quickly, but many fans were convinced he was good by his attacking overlaps, but he was hopeless in the opening games; getting turned very easily, getting caught out of position, wearing the wrong boots etc. But they have all learned quickly... and he looks much better now.

 

Likewise Steve Davis had difficulty adjusting to a side that leaked in goals every game but looks 100% better in our new faster-game style. His opportunist goal v. Citeh was a good example.

 

Fox doesn't look a shaky as he once did and I don't tremble at the thought of him playing LB (when required) - as we all did in October.......

 

finally I think Jos is a good team player. His " do-or-die" attitude shows he's not afraid of confrontation with big name players (rather like Michael Svensson - though he's not in MS class) and I think he is a little less rash in his tackling now and his clearance of headers v. Citeh were commanding.

[Barry the Badger]

agree with your headline..and most of your points. Clyne has learned quickly, but many fans were convinced he was good by his attacking overlaps, but he was hopeless in the opening games; getting turned very easily, getting caught out of position, wearing the wrong boots etc. But they have all learned quickly... and he looks much better now.

 

Clyne was excellent at the start of the season, was just being left too exposed by our midfield.

 

If you think he was hopeless you're an absolute nutter.

[Dogs]

Jos seems a great deal leaner these days,so does Ricky,it must be a bonus as they have both been outstanding.