In our dreams!

[Weston Saint]

It has been reported that the clubs long term plan is to compete in Europe, particularly the Champions League.

 

We have a wealthy owner but I doubt there will be a glut of new investment long term. Mr Cortese suggests investment in the Academy will bring through future players meaning transfer costs will reduce. But what about player salaries?

 

Everton reported another loss yesterday. Their turnover for 2011-12 season was £80.5m. Their player salary bill was £63.4m. That is 75% of turnover. They are not one of the big 5 (if you include Spurs)

 

It is all well and good bringing great players through the Academy but you are then going to have to pay competitive salaries to avoid their heads turning to the big 5 or even overseas.

 

Will the owners keep their nerve and continue to invest in the hope of rich spoils when we eventually break into the “top group” or will we continue to be a selling club in the lower tier of the Premier or a good Championship side because we cannot afford to pay the sort of salaries needed?

 

Obviously our priority this season is to retain or Premier League status. There is promise that our stadium capacity will increase if we do but that will hardly dent the sort of salary bill we will need to progress at the speed the Owners and Mr Cortese wishes.

 

We have said we are not a selling club and have reportedly rejected an approach from West Ham for Lambert. If they are offering him substantially more in Salary then that must demotivate a player who is reaching the last period of his playing career. It must make Shaw wonder now he is establishing himself as a world class left back.

 

Is it all about money? Massive salary bills out of proportion with turnover suggest it is.

 

In my opinion the dream of future Champions League participation at Southampton is just that, a dream. I will settle for regular mid table with the occasional big wins against the top five.

[This Charming Man]

Here we go again...

 

We should just stick to trying not to get relegated.

[Saint Charlie]

Good point. The key unknown is the funding side of it. Pretty clear you can't really become a settled top half team psuhing consistently into Europe without continued investment in the playing squad.

 

But nobody really knows how much money we have access to, and that is the key point.

[jayrivers]

To a certain extent I think that is determined by the sort of player you have in your team? I feel Saints have been very careful about their player recruitment and put a lot of emphasis on the players personality. Personally I feel we have very few people who would jump ship at the first site of more money (there are going to be some exceptions). Obviously that might be different with new accademy players that may have not been chosen in the same manner. But you can cash in on some and keep the others. It all depends how many we are able to produce. 2 players a year should be more than sifficient to have 50% from the accademy. Also first team football is a big factor for some players. There is no way we can hold onto everyone, no matter who you are someone else will come sniffing. But keeping just a few more than we have been is a start. And I feel that will happen.

[Thedelldays]

the idea of saints playing in the CL is just daft...I know wes etc think it is possible...but it isnt WITHOUT seriously putting the club at risk

[Sour Mash]

It has been reported that the clubs long term plan is to compete in Europe, particularly the Champions League.

 

We have a wealthy owner but I doubt there will be a glut of new investment long term. Mr Cortese suggests investment in the Academy will bring through future players meaning transfer costs will reduce. But what about player salaries?

 

Everton reported another loss yesterday. Their turnover for 2011-12 season was £80.5m. Their player salary bill was £63.4m. That is 75% of turnover. They are not one of the big 5 (if you include Spurs)

 

It is all well and good bringing great players through the Academy but you are then going to have to pay competitive salaries to avoid their heads turning to the big 5 or even overseas.

 

Will the owners keep their nerve and continue to invest in the hope of rich spoils when we eventually break into the “top group” or will we continue to be a selling club in the lower tier of the Premier or a good Championship side because we cannot afford to pay the sort of salaries needed?

 

Obviously our priority this season is to retain or Premier League status. There is promise that our stadium capacity will increase if we do but that will hardly dent the sort of salary bill we will need to progress at the speed the Owners and Mr Cortese wishes.

 

We have said we are not a selling club and have reportedly rejected an approach from West Ham for Lambert. If they are offering him substantially more in Salary then that must demotivate a player who is reaching the last period of his playing career. It must make Shaw wonder now he is establishing himself as a world class left back.

 

Is it all about money? Massive salary bills out of proportion with turnover suggest it is.

 

In my opinion the dream of future Champions League participation at Southampton is just that, a dream. I will settle for regular mid table with the occasional big wins against the top five.

Agree with the majority of that. One never knows what can happen in football many years down the line, but at the moment, Champions League aspirations are pointless for a club our size.

 

However, a few points to pick you up on; Even if we were to match the "big 5" in wages, players will still move to the big clubs due to the chance to play in the Champs League, regularly win trophies, increased status and international chances etc.

 

Also, we haven't been "promised" a bigger ground if we stay in the Premier League.

Edited 4 January, 2013 by Sour Mash

[The Kraken]

Something about man climbing Everest to get to the moon.

[dubai_phil]

Fair comment in the OP.

 

Though I wonder whether there is a difference this time around.

 

We all read that the entire squad received Pay Rises on promotion (hence why poor old Ryan Dickson is sitting around watching football and tweeting all week long). We know many of our players were alleged to be up in the 30-40k a week salary - that's a big change from when we were last in the PL.

 

2 or 3 seasons of that kind of money sees anyone set up for life, PLUS for the likes of Cork/Morgan/Lambert they are playing football every week not sitting on a bench.

 

How much more would WHU have offered Lambert? Is he really a 60/80k a week player? At his age would he have got a 3 year contract at that value? How much is Quality of Life and playing PL football actually worth?

 

You can argue that Shaw would get a huge payrise going to Arsenal, but then when he hits 18 he could be on 1mil+ a year anyway?

 

Players will always move for money, I think we could all spot those in our current squad who would jump at the chance, but for the others? The team dynamic is strong, unlike last time in the PL we DO have a vision and a plan to be more than about "mid table".

 

Ignore the "CL argument" for a moment, but I do think that this time around things are slightly different. The squad have been together a long time and I know from my own experience that sometimes IF your staff are paid well, treated well and enjoy their work, they will often prefer not to move JUST for money.

 

Perhaps what I am saying is that players may now prefer to leave us for regular CL football/trophies, NOT simply for a pay day.

 

We'll simply become a feeder club for Real or Barca instead of Everton or Spuds or Arsenal.

[channonball]

If Everton can flirt with Champions League places occasionally there is no reason we can't. I think the key is retaining the players we develop. If you look at the Oxlaide deal, we've sold him for £10m and it would cost us £30m to buy him back. We've sold for £7m and it would cost us £50m. We are never going to be competitive without these types of talents, but when we do develop them we let the go for a fee that doesn't allow us to replace them. The key to keeping them is probably to buy a couple of marquee signings now in the ilk of Ramirez to show ambition and then offer them wages in excess of what they would get joining the big boys. Remember, they don't cost us a transfer fee...

[Alain Perrin]

I think Saints' business model is more sustainable than most. We have a strong academy production line which, to some extent, is self sustaining (the more good players we bring through, the more attractive we are to young good players etc.). That production line provides an income stream that other clubs don't necessarily have (at least consistently), it also means that we should have lower salary bills because young players cost less.

 

Investing in the squad now is key for several reasons, not least because it helps retain our Premiership status which is good for revenue, academy player attraction and young player retention (the longer we keep players like Shaw, the more he's worth).

 

I'm no expert, but I look at Everton and I see they have the drain of high salaries, a stadium they need to replace, an academy based more on luck than judgement and (as far as I know) have significant debts to service. Structurally I'd much rather be us; that said if Everton make the Champions League anytime soon then they may find a route out - but that depends on continued qualification which is a risky proposition.

 

With Saint's stated aim of 50% academy products in the team we should have a model that is potentially more sustainable than Everton's - but it still relies on success on the pitch and in the academy.

[Sour Mash]

Fair comment in the OP.

 

Though I wonder whether there is a difference this time around.

 

We all read that the entire squad received Pay Rises on promotion (hence why poor old Ryan Dickson is sitting around watching football and tweeting all week long). We know many of our players were alleged to be up in the 30-40k a week salary - that's a big change from when we were last in the PL.

 

2 or 3 seasons of that kind of money sees anyone set up for life, PLUS for the likes of Cork/Morgan/Lambert they are playing football every week not sitting on a bench.

 

How much more would WHU have offered Lambert? Is he really a 60/80k a week player? At his age would he have got a 3 year contract at that value? How much is Quality of Life and playing PL football actually worth?

 

You can argue that Shaw would get a huge payrise going to Arsenal, but then when he hits 18 he could be on 1mil+ a year anyway?

 

Players will always move for money, I think we could all spot those in our current squad who would jump at the chance, but for the others? The team dynamic is strong, unlike last time in the PL we DO have a vision and a plan to be more than about "mid table".

 

Ignore the "CL argument" for a moment, but I do think that this time around things are slightly different. The squad have been together a long time and I know from my own experience that sometimes IF your staff are paid well, treated well and enjoy their work, they will often prefer not to move JUST for money.

 

Perhaps what I am saying is that players may now prefer to leave us for regular CL football/trophies, NOT simply for a pay day.

 

We'll simply become a feeder club for Real or Barca instead of Everton or Spuds or Arsenal.

Is this great squad dymanic and collective team-spirit what saw Hammond, Harding and Sharp straight out of the door as soon as we got to the Prem. Football has always been a fairly cut-throat, ruthless business, and pretty much always will be.

[Depressed of Shirley]

I think that Everton's financial results show just how hopeless it is for any side outside the current top 4 of Man U, Man C, Arsenal and Chelsea, to regularly play in the Champs League. The issue isn't about inward investment, it is about once you are in the CL, the difference in income over the rest of the Prem means you have to really cock it up to not be in year after year.

 

Of the others, only Liverpool and Spurs have the potential, but each year they don't qualify and the others do, there is less chance of them making it the following year. The only potential light at the end of this depressing tunnel is the financial fair play rules, but even they will favour the current big 4 rather than anyone else.

 

As for players, of course they want to play at the highest level, but the CL money means that those that aren't playing don't need to be sold to balance the books. The top 4 just go on collecting players on huge wages, and don't let them go. To compete with these salaries is just madness, as Leeds found out.

 

I see no way that we or any other club in the Prem will be able to break the monopoly, unless Roman drops dead or just walks away, and Chelsea are faced with trying to finance the club on a normal basis. Even then, £40m per year of CL money means we probably couldn't compete until Chelsea have been out of the CL for about 4 years.

[mikee]

The only way we will be able to achieve these ambitions is by having our future teams made up of academy graduates - even then we won't be able to keep them all - so part of our strategy must include being a "selling club" as this will raise additional revenues and provide a home for our second tier graduates.

 

The problem if we do manage to break into the higher echelons of the Premiership is keeping our best academy prospects patient enough to wait a bit longer for their chance. At present we can blood the best of them at 16 or 17 but this will naturally change if we continue to get better. At the moment, offering a chance to play must be a big part of the attraction of SFC.

 

The good news in all of this - regardless of what happens - is that we will be able to attract the best young players to the academy as they know their chances of making it are better than at other academies. This is probably the biggest short term benefit, academy recruitment, and if that happens the rest may well follow- in time.

[This Charming Man]

If Everton can flirt with Champions League places occasionally there is no reason we can't. I think the key is retaining the players we develop. If you look at the Oxlaide deal, we've sold him for £10m and it would cost us £30m to buy him back. We've sold for £7m and it would cost us £50m. We are never going to be competitive without these types of talents, but when we do develop them we let the go for a fee that doesn't allow us to replace them. The key to keeping them is probably to buy a couple of marquee signings now in the ilk of Ramirez to show ambition and then offer them wages in excess of what they would get joining the big boys. Remember, they don't cost us a transfer fee...

 

 

Absoloutely ridiculous. The ignorance of some of our fans never ceases to amaze me.

 

If Reading fans were banging on about how they might qualify for the CL because Everton once did, there would be a 10 page thread on here deriding them for being the most deluded fans in the Premiership and everyone would be having a good laugh at them.

 

Oh and Everton didn't even make it past the qualifying round in the CL.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Everything you say is true Ron, it is all about money these days. I personally think the club will be sold in the next 2-3 years and everything will then depend on the new owners.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

the idea of saints playing in the CL is just daft...I know wes etc think it is possible...but it isnt WITHOUT seriously putting the club at risk

 

Perhaps, but aiming for Champions League and missing may result in upper to mid-table finishes.

 

Aiming to just scrape survival and missing = ?

[Dalek2003]

Here we go again...

 

We should just stick to trying not to get relegated.

 

 

Agreed. Or become a 'yoyo' club.

[Thedelldays]

Perhaps, but aiming for Champions League and missing may result in upper to mid-table finishes.

 

Aiming to just scrape survival and missing = ?

to aim for the champions league seriously will result in saints being in serious financial health...

 

unless you want to aim like rupert lowe aimed by hiring a legaue 1 manager and signing neil mccann..?

[This Charming Man]

If CL qualification is as simple as keeping your academy players, I don't understand why more teams haven't tried it... oh wait, that's because you also need to supplement it with hundreds of millions of pounds.

 

Anyone on here who thinks we will qualify for the CL within the next 25 years, without a Man City style spending spree is a moron.

[max_saints]

The key to keeping them is probably to buy a couple of marquee signings now in the ilk of Ramirez to show ambition and then offer them wages in excess of what they would get joining the big boys. Remember, they don't cost us a transfer fee...

 

the Pompey way

[Dalek2003]

to aim for the champions league seriously will result in saints being in serious financial health...

 

unless you want to aim like rupert lowe aimed by hiring a legaue 1 manager and signing neil mccann..?

 

Well, he was only responding to the ambitions of the vocal minority !

[John B]

It has been reported that the clubs long term plan is to compete in Europe, particularly the Champions League.

 

We have a wealthy owner but I doubt there will be a glut of new investment long term. Mr Cortese suggests investment in the Academy will bring through future players meaning transfer costs will reduce. But what about player salaries?

 

Everton reported another loss yesterday. Their turnover for 2011-12 season was £80.5m. Their player salary bill was £63.4m. That is 75% of turnover. They are not one of the big 5 (if you include Spurs)

 

It is all well and good bringing great players through the Academy but you are then going to have to pay competitive salaries to avoid their heads turning to the big 5 or even overseas.

 

Will the owners keep their nerve and continue to invest in the hope of rich spoils when we eventually break into the “top group” or will we continue to be a selling club in the lower tier of the Premier or a good Championship side because we cannot afford to pay the sort of salaries needed?

 

Obviously our priority this season is to retain or Premier League status. There is promise that our stadium capacity will increase if we do but that will hardly dent the sort of salary bill we will need to progress at the speed the Owners and Mr Cortese wishes.

 

We have said we are not a selling club and have reportedly rejected an approach from West Ham for Lambert. If they are offering him substantially more in Salary then that must demotivate a player who is reaching the last period of his playing career. It must make Shaw wonder now he is establishing himself as a world class left back.

 

Is it all about money? Massive salary bills out of proportion with turnover suggest it is.

 

In my opinion the dream of future Champions League participation at Southampton is just that, a dream. I will settle for regular mid table with the occasional big wins against the top five.

 

Yes you are quite right we have much more chance of getting relegated than getting to the Champions League

[The Kraken]

If CL qualification is as simple as keeping your academy players, I don't understand why more teams haven't tried it... oh wait, that's because you also need to supplement it with hundreds of millions of pounds.

 

Anyone on here who thinks we will qualify for the CL within the next 25 years, without a Man City style spending spree is a moron.

 

Precisely. Jack Rodwell, one of Everton's top prospects in years, out of the door as soon as Man City come calling with a £12M offer. And that's from Everton, who are consistently in and around the Europa places every year.

 

This notion of the 50% academy graduate first team is a nice idea, but anyone pinning CL qualification hopes on it is living in a dream world.

[Thedelldays]

I will find it utterly incredible if anyone thinks we are going for the CL any time soon..whilst sat 1 place above relegation on goal difference and below very bad teams like villa and sunderland

[FloridaMarlin]

I think the key to it all is how the Financial Fair play rules are implemented.

The whole idea of the FFP rules are to create more even competition across the piece, and try to make football succees a product of what it was in the past - of good scouting, recruitment coaching and development of players rather than those with the biggest wallets win.

Platini was pooh-poohed when he proposed the rules and accused of anti-Premier League jealousy, but I think people now see the value of the rules.

I'm old enough to remember the romance of a Brian Clough coached Nottingham Forest winning the European Cup, the sort of thing that has been eradicated since monetary might has been right.

Hopefully, the proper implementation of the FFP rules will enable smaller but well-run clubs to compete on a more even field, but I have my doubts.

As long as there are loopholes in the rules, clubs will exploit them so expect to continue to see Manchester City gain kit sponsorship deals worth hundreds of millions of pounds as their owners continue to bankroll them.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

to aim for the champions league seriously will result in saints being in serious financial health...

 

unless you want to aim like rupert lowe aimed by hiring a legaue 1 manager and signing neil mccann..?

 

It depends on how they go about doing it. If we do a Leeds, then yeah, there will probably be trouble.

 

But for some reason I trust a guy with a background in banking to be better at working these sorts of things out than myself or other people on here to be honest.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I will find it utterly incredible if anyone thinks we are going for the CL any time soon..whilst sat 1 place above relegation on goal difference and below very bad teams like villa and sunderland

 

Very few think it is likely any time soon.

 

Has Cortese said it is likely in the immediate future? I mean the next couple of years. Not a fleeting comment about maybe in the future?

[Thedelldays]

It depends on how they go about doing it. If we do a Leeds, then yeah, there will probably be trouble.

 

But for some reason I trust a guy with a background in banking to be better at working these sorts of things out than myself or other people on here to be honest.

there is no other way to go about it...look at the money spurs have spent over many years to be a challenger for 4th

[The Kraken]

I think the key to it all is how the Financial Fair play rules are implemented.

The whole idea of the FFP rules are to create more even competition across the piece, and try to make football succees a product of what it was in the past - of good scouting, recruitment coaching and development of players rather than those with the biggest wallets win.

Platini was pooh-poohed when he proposed the rules and accused of anti-Premier League jealousy, but I think people now see the value of the rules.

I'm old enough to remember the romance of a Brian Clough coached Nottingham Forest winning the European Cup, the sort of thing that has been eradicated since monetary might has been right.

Hopefully, the proper implementation of the FFP rules will enable smaller but well-run clubs to compete on a more even field, but I have my doubts.

As long as there are loopholes in the rules, clubs will exploit them so expect to continue to see Manchester City gain kit sponsorship deals worth hundreds of millions of pounds as their owners continue to bankroll them.

 

Why will it? The FFP rules will enable teams can only spend what they earn. Saints completely overspent in an effort to get from League 1 to the Premier League so quickly. We lost millions doing it (even despite selling an academy product for £15M) yet we can all see the competitive advantage we gained. Under true FFP we wouldn't have been able to do that; we would have had to live within our budget.

 

Those clubs with the largest incomes will always strive. And there will be easy ways around FFP, for example Etihad's £100M a year sponsiorship of Man City and PSG's even bigger deal with the Qatari tourist board.

[This Charming Man]

I think the key to it all is how the Financial Fair play rules are implemented.

The whole idea of the FFP rules are to create more even competition across the piece, and try to make football succees a product of what it was in the past - of good scouting, recruitment coaching and development of players rather than those with the biggest wallets win.

Platini was pooh-poohed when he proposed the rules and accused of anti-Premier League jealousy, but I think people now see the value of the rules.

I'm old enough to remember the romance of a Brian Clough coached Nottingham Forest winning the European Cup, the sort of thing that has been eradicated since monetary might has been right.

Hopefully, the proper implementation of the FFP rules will enable smaller but well-run clubs to compete on a more even field, but I have my doubts.

As long as there are loopholes in the rules, clubs will exploit them so expect to continue to see Manchester City gain kit sponsorship deals worth hundreds of millions of pounds as their owners continue to bankroll them.

 

And that is exactly what will happen. Nothing will change with the FFP rules.

[The Kraken]

It depends on how they go about doing it. If we do a Leeds, then yeah, there will probably be trouble.

 

But for some reason I trust a guy with a background in banking to be better at working these sorts of things out than myself or other people on here to be honest.

Yep, those guys in banking are always to be trusted and could never trigger a global financial collapse

[Lymsaint]

Fair comment in the OP.

 

Though I wonder whether there is a difference this time around.

 

We all read that the entire squad received Pay Rises on promotion (hence why poor old Ryan Dickson is sitting around watching football and tweeting all week long). We know many of our players were alleged to be up in the 30-40k a week salary - that's a big change from when we were last in the PL.

 

2 or 3 seasons of that kind of money sees anyone set up for life, PLUS for the likes of Cork/Morgan/Lambert they are playing football every week not sitting on a bench.

 

How much more would WHU have offered Lambert? Is he really a 60/80k a week player? At his age would he have got a 3 year contract at that value? How much is Quality of Life and playing PL football actually worth?

 

You can argue that Shaw would get a huge payrise going to Arsenal, but then when he hits 18 he could be on 1mil+ a year anyway?

 

Players will always move for money, I think we could all spot those in our current squad who would jump at the chance, but for the others? The team dynamic is strong, unlike last time in the PL we DO have a vision and a plan to be more than about "mid table".

 

Ignore the "CL argument" for a moment, but I do think that this time around things are slightly different. The squad have been together a long time and I know from my own experience that sometimes IF your staff are paid well, treated well and enjoy their work, they will often prefer not to move JUST for money.

 

Perhaps what I am saying is that players may now prefer to leave us for regular CL football/trophies, NOT simply for a pay day.

 

We'll simply become a feeder club for Real or Barca instead of Everton or Spuds or Arsenal.

 

These are good points, its also worth noting that players like Shaw have been with the club since they were 7 years old, that must give them a strong sense of "belonging" and loyalty to the club, some will leave for sure, but others like Adam will stay.

[Appy]

It is a million miles off, the only way it could possibly happen is if the current ownership is replaced with someone that has similar money to Man City's owners.

[Sour Mash]

Why will it? The FFP rules will enable teams can only spend what they earn. Saints completely overspent in an effort to get from League 1 to the Premier League so quickly. We lost millions doing it (even despite selling an academy product for £15M) yet we can all see the competitive advantage we gained. Under true FFP we wouldn't have been able to do that; we would have had to live within our budget.

 

Those clubs with the largest incomes will always strive. And there will be easy ways around FFP, for example Etihad's £100M a year sponsiorship of Man City and PSG's even bigger deal with the Qatari tourist board.

Exactly that. There are possibly some good intentions behind the FFP, but in practice it'll only aid the biggest of clubs. THe lkes of Wigan and Blackburn would probably have never competed in the Premier League the way they have.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

there is no other way to go about it...look at the money spurs have spent over many years to be a challenger for 4th

 

I agree to some extent, but I don't think it is quite as black & white as you make it out.

 

If you look at Everton, their net spend over the past few years has been relatively little, in comparison to some (their city neighbours for example) and they are there or there abouts.

 

The Rodwell thing is slightly skewed, he had a long term contract up there, but was falling out of favour fast. He hadn't developed as was hoped, and was injured a lot. Moyes felt taking that money and spending it elsewhere was better for the squad as a whole. He's hardly pulling up any trees at City.

 

It's an if, a very big if - but if the academy can keep producing top quality players like Theo, Oxo, Bale etc. then it will really help. If we can have the resolve to hold on there is no reason these sorts of players can help push us on further up the league. Cortese has already shown he can get a good deal for players (Oxo), which is likely to improve now we are in the Prem also. This extra revenue will, if spent wisely (i.e. Moyes), also help push us up the league.

 

I'm not saying necessarily all the way to the CL, but I highly doubt Cortese was talking about that being an immediate thing on getting back to the Prem. I personally have my doubts to the sincerity of such claims anyway. He hardly strikes me as the type to publicly come out and say "our aim is to get to the prem and look for 17th year in year out".

[This Charming Man]

Precisely. Jack Rodwell, one of Everton's top prospects in years, out of the door as soon as Man City come calling with a £12M offer. And that's from Everton, who are consistently in and around the Europa places every year.

 

This notion of the 50% academy graduate first team is a nice idea, but anyone pinning CL qualification hopes on it is living in a dream world.

 

In all fairness, £12m for Rodwell was seriously good business, he's so over-rated.

[Thedelldays]

as kraken said...if financial fair play was in place a few years ago...we probably wont be in the prem

 

we had a man city advantage over everyone else in league 1...that was not a problem for any of us...we even managed to spend in the NPC with no parachute payments.....we have even taken out a loan in order to do what ever this season..........

 

saints in the CL is not going to happen any time soon in the near, medium or long term future

[Thedelldays]

I agree to some extent, but I don't think it is quite as black & white as you make it out.

 

If you look at Everton, their net spend over the past few years has been relatively little, in comparison to some (their city neighbours for example) and they are there or there abouts.

.

and how many times have everton got into europe...let alone the CL..

 

they have a msaaive wage bill by the way...which will no doubt dwarf ours

[Doctoroncall]

There is much dependency on the academy set up to produce a good crop of youngsters that can easily integrate into the first team. If a few are capable to join at the same time it would help (used to playing together, camaraderie etc) rather than spending big money on transfers.

 

It's then how long can we hold on to them... how many more years could we have had Walcott, Chamberlain and Bale if we had been in the premeir league before they left, and how much larger would the fee be to invest (assuming the owners want to do this)?

 

Happy to be self sufficient to see the rise of good players and see where we can get to in the premier league and the cups. Champions League, I don't think so.

 

 

BTW, the CL money for finishing third or fourth in the league isn't that great unless the team make it to the league stage, even then, for a new team the media money cut isn't as generous as with the established CL teams.

[tajjuk]

In all fairness, £12m for Rodwell was seriously good business, he's so over-rated.

 

Exactly it's a bad example and they have re-invested it well, he wasn't even a regular for Everton so hardly one their best prospects. He might have been at 17 but he's 21 and hasn't progressed as much as was expected from him. It was a great deal for Everton.

 

Perhaps, but aiming for Champions League and missing may result in upper to mid-table finishes.

 

Aiming to just scrape survival and missing = ?

 

Agree with this, aiming just to stay up is what got us relegated. With a few quality signings in 2003 we could have been pushing on the European places, instead we sold our best player and bought a load of squad players.

 

The club has ambition and maybe the finances to match, there is no reason we can't be in and around the top 8 in the coming seasons and with a bit of luck you never know. Newcastle weren't far off from a Champions league place. But the priority now is staying up, if we do then next year with a year's experience under their belts the current team will be better and there will be new additions.

 

It seemed a bit of dream back in league 1 when the '5 year plan' was announced.

 

I also reckon it's better to try and fail than to go nowhere.

[Doctoroncall]

as kraken said...if financial fair play was in place a few years ago...we probably wont be in the prem

 

Not really, just like Man United would be able to spend more than most in the Premier League as they have the highest income, Saints would be in a similar state in league one. However, in the Championship, promotion would have been more difficult to achieve.

[Thedelldays]

Not really, just like Man United would be able to spend more than most in the Premier League as they have the highest income, Saints would be in a similar state in league one. However, in the Championship, promotion would have been more difficult to achieve.

then why did we (the owners) have to write off £33m loss..?

[The Kraken]

You realise you could all save time by just digging up the previous threads on this, as nothing has changed and you're all typing the exact same things.

 

As valuable a contribution as ever.

 

*points out forum rule of "if you haven't got any contribution to make to the thread other than sarcastic drivel, probably best not to make one at all"*

[KelvinsRightGlove]

and how many times have everton got into europe...let alone the CL..

 

they have a msaaive wage bill by the way...which will no doubt dwarf ours

 

Europe, quite a few. Cl - just the once, and not the group stages (getting Villareal was pretty unlucky).

 

The L1 point ignores our income relative to those around us. Yes there was investment, but our income was also probably a lot higher than our competitors at the time.

 

In the Champ last season I would be surprised if we were even the 3rd biggest spenders. West Ham and Leicester were throwing around silly money - and look where it got them.

 

I would be surprised if we are spending more on wages than QPR, and look at how it is serving them. I'm not denying the role of money, but it has to be spent wisely.

[The Kraken]

Exactly it's a bad example and they have re-invested it well, he wasn't even a regular for Everton so hardly one their best prospects. He might have been at 17 but he's 21 and hasn't progressed as much as was expected from him. It was a great deal for Everton.

Who are Everton's best prospects from the academy if England international Jack Rodwell is not one of them? There must be a few of them if Rodwell is not one of them. Interested to know.

[Doctoroncall]

then why did we (the owners) have to write off £33m loss..?

 

They didn't have to.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Who are Everton's best prospects from the academy if England international Jack Rodwell is not one of them? There must be a few of them if Rodwell is not one of them. Interested to know.

 

I'm not entirely sure.

 

But my old housemate is a massive toffees fan and the view he gave me was the majority of their fans were pretty pleased with the deal. As has been said, he hadn't developed as hoped, and felt that money would be better invested elsewhere, as the side seemed to be stronger without him. In fairness to the club, Moyes & Kenright are very adept at getting good deals for the club.

[The Kraken]

I'm not entirely sure.

 

But my old housemate is a massive toffees fan and the view he gave me was the majority of their fans were pretty pleased with the deal. As has been said, he hadn't developed as hoped, and felt that money would be better invested elsewhere, as the side seemed to be stronger without him. In fairness to the club, Moyes & Kenright are very adept at getting good deals for the club.

 

I'm sure they did feel they got a good deal; £12M is a lot of money and allowed them to reinvest elsewhere in the team. Just as £15M was a lot of money for us for Chamberlain, which also allowed us to reinvest elsewhere in the team and make the squad stronger than without him.

 

But then I guess the rules are different for us than to other teams that lose their academy prospects.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I'm sure they did feel they got a good deal; £12M is a lot of money and allowed them to reinvest elsewhere in the team. Just as £15M was a lot of money for us for Chamberlain, which also allowed us to reinvest elsewhere in the team and make the squad stronger than without him.

 

But then I guess the rules are different for us than to other teams that lose their academy prospects.

 

I don't really see how that is the case?

 

As long as the academy is producing, and we continue to be in a decent financial state and a Premiership team, it's only a win win situation.

 

As I said above, if we can keep the players - they can help us push on. If not, Cortese has shown how good he is at getting a deal that suits us. Let's remember we got more for Oxo, a 17 year old with 2/3's of a L1 season behind him, than Everton got from City (the club that spent around £30m+ on Jo and Santa Cruz) for an England International that had 80+ Prem appearances and Europa league experience.

[Pilchards]

It's great to have ambitions & a dream.

 

Greece had the same feelings when they won Euro 2000 (I think)