Impact of Fans in Relegation Battle

[Saint Charlie]

After watching Boruc make a few early mistakes yesterday in front of the fans who goaded him out of the team during the Spurs game it made me wonder what impact fans can really have on a relegation battle.

 

When there is a good atmosphere at a game it can really drive the players on. We have seen this at times at SMS and certainly the Stoke fans at the end of our game there made it a good home atmosphere to urge their players on, as we did at Fulham on Boxing Day in an away sense.

 

Here are a couple of questions:

 

Q1: Had the section of Chapel fans not taunted Boruc on his home debut would he have been dropped after the Spurs game (where he didnt do masses wrong)?

 

I don't think he would. This would have prevented the Gazza episode and dodgy goals vs Swansea and Norwich, and could see us with 4 more points.

 

In addition it would have prevented Davis from ending up back in goal (after replacing Gazza), and might well have added another 4 points from the Fulham and Stoke games where very soft goals were conceded due to KD's poor performance.

 

Potentially even with 3 more points from Boruc playing instead of Gazza/Davis we would be in a far healthier position in the league.

 

Q2: If the Chapel fans hadn't got on Boruc's back do you think we would had experienced a more stable keeper situation and might have more points because of it?

 

Q3: If we end up relegated this Boruc incident where home 'fans' abused him into a reaction would not make the national or local media, although will more than likley have cost more points than any other sole moment of the season.

 

Would you blame these supporters at all for their part in a relegation?

 

Q4: Is there any scenario where booing, abusing, reacting like this to your own players is ever likely to improve your chances in a relegation fight?

 

In Guly's case it maybe has made him play better but I have to admit the sight of a standing ovation from the same people who boo his name when its called out at the start is a bit baffling.

Edited 2 January, 2013 by Saint Charlie

[Steeleye Saint]

Booing or abusing your own players is never acceptable - unfortunately football attracts the type of person who thinks it's OK. It is counter productive and I just don't understand why people do it.

[Sour Mash]

Anyone who has attended games in our relegation battles from years gone by will notice how much worse our support is these days. OUr support used to really make a difference, particularly at home, in a similar way to Stoke. In contrast, this season has been really half hearted, with a few exceptions such as Fulham away.

[Saint Charlie]

Anyone who has attended games in our relegation battles from years gone by will notice how much worse our support is these days. OUr support used to really make a difference, particularly at home, in a similar way to Stoke. In contrast, this season has been really half hearted, with a few exceptions such as Fulham away.

 

QPR was decent as well I thought.

 

Hardly a suprise Boruc was nervous, he must hate playing at SMS after that incident, and needs support not ironic cheers when he catches a ball.

 

On paper he is the best keeper we have and if he hadnt been removed from the team due to that incident he would have found form and prevented some of the Gazzanitus we suffered from.

[sadoldgit]

One of Adkins key attributes to me is his possitivity. Booing is negative and does nothing to help the situation other than make the booee feel better. Can you put yourself in a situation where you are at work, do something wrong and the people around you start booing and slagging you off. Is that really going to make you try harder of just make you feel worse? Some will come on and say thet pay their money and they are entitled to boo. They may be right but by making the the poor sod feel like cr*p is that really just making things even worse? It has been said that the crowd can be the 12th man. If they react in a negative way that 12th man could end up helping the opponents.

[Dig Dig]

People should try turning their constant moaning, groaning and booing into something more positive. Too many miserable muppets who seemingly know F all about anything turning up to St Marys to sit and complain for 90 minutes, even when we are playing well and winning.

 

If you do this and are reading this, sort yourselves out, no one is forcing you to go to the games and you're not helping the team.

 

I've been critical of Boruc on here after his performance yesterday but the ironic jeering after his poor start doesn't help. You'd have thought he was the opposition 'keeper.

[charliegeorgesflymo]

I wouldn't mind but the Chapel is such a library - they should use the energy to get that end of the ground to sing!

[Sour Mash]

QPR was decent as well I thought.

 

Hardly a suprise Boruc was nervous, he must hate playing at SMS after that incident, and needs support not ironic cheers when he catches a ball.

 

On paper he is the best keeper we have and if he hadnt been removed from the team due to that incident he would have found form and prevented some of the Gazzanitus we suffered from.

Completely agree. The ironic cheers were a joke.

[merrimd]

Just for the record, no one in the Chapel Boo'd Boruc until AFTER he threw the water bottle at the crowd. One or two then got upset, and he started to goad the supporters. He then got boo'd.

 

Love how this has now turned into the Chapels fault. I wonder what would have happened if he had goaded the Uber fans in the Northam?

[Dig Dig]

Just for the record, no one in the Chapel Boo'd Boruc until AFTER he threw the water bottle at the crowd. One or two then got upset, and he started to goad the supporters. He then got boo'd.

 

Love how this has now turned into the Chapels fault. I wonder what would have happened if he had goaded the Uber fans in the Northam?

 

You and your Chapel mates should be ashamed of yourselves. If we are relegated we will all look back on the points you may have cost us so far.

[Sour Mash]

Just for the record, no one in the Chapel Boo'd Boruc until AFTER he threw the water bottle at the crowd. One or two then got upset, and he started to goad the supporters. He then got boo'd.

 

Love how this has now turned into the Chapels fault. I wonder what would have happened if he had goaded the Uber fans in the Northam?

So what you're telling us is that Boruc launched a bottle at fans for no reason? Hard to believe I'm afraid.

[Saint Charlie]

Just for the record, no one in the Chapel Boo'd Boruc until AFTER he threw the water bottle at the crowd. One or two then got upset, and he started to goad the supporters. He then got boo'd.

 

Love how this has now turned into the Chapels fault. I wonder what would have happened if he had goaded the Uber fans in the Northam?

 

He was disappointed because we conceded a goal - hardly crime of the century. We ask for players that care afterall...

[Saint Charlie]

So what you're telling us is that Boruc launched a bottle at fans for no reason? Hard to believe I'm afraid.

 

Agree - player in disappointed to concede a goal shocker:

 

BBC Sport:

 

Southampton keeper Artur Boruc is available for selection against Swansea on Saturday after the club concluded an investigation into an incident at the Tottenham game on 28 October.

 

The Poland international allegedly threw a water bottle into the crowd during the first half at St Mary's.

 

But after an internal inquiry Saints have decided to take no action.

 

[merrimd]

So what you're telling us is that Boruc launched a bottle at fans for no reason? Hard to believe I'm afraid.

 

No, as i said, one or two got upset, they may have shouted something out, he then threw the bottle. The reason for throwing the bottle was because he got the arse with people daring to suggest he might have done a touch better. The problem came when he started to offer out the fans.

 

Acceptable behaviour?

 

There will always be one or two in the crowd that get the hump when we concede. Other than the Northam, of course.

[Saint Charlie]

No, as i said, one or two got upset, they may have shouted something out, he then threw the bottle. The reason for throwing the bottle was because he got the arse with people daring to suggest he might have done a touch better. The problem came when he started to offer out the fans.

 

Acceptable behaviour?

 

There will always be one or two in the crowd that get the hump when we concede. Other than the Northam, of course.

 

Those one or two moaners have probably cost us points (and Im sure they will moan about that too).

[Sour Mash]

No, as i said, one or two got upset, they may have shouted something out, he then threw the bottle. The reason for throwing the bottle was because he got the arse with people daring to suggest he might have done a touch better. The problem came when he started to offer out the fans.

 

Acceptable behaviour?

 

There will always be one or two in the crowd that get the hump when we concede. Other than the Northam, of course.

No, it's not acceptable behaviour. The club have disciplined him for it according to Adkins, so that's enough for me. And no, there is no reason for supporters to have a go at a keeper for making a mistake or conceding a goal, they don't do it on purpose.

[merrimd]

Those one or two moaners have probably cost us points (and Im sure they will moan about that too).

 

In that case please allow me to apologise on behalf of those 2 and i shall endeavour to spur my team on by singing songs about a team 2 divisions below us. That should see us right.

[merrimd]

No, it's not acceptable behaviour. The club have disciplined him for it according to Adkins, so that's enough for me. And no, there is no reason for supporters to have a go at a keeper for making a mistake or conceding a goal, they don't do it on purpose.

 

I agree, we should back our players regardless of what mistake they make. Not the case though is it. Individuals will always shout abuse if a player screws up. You can hear the audible groan when Guly misplaces a pass. Surely it is up to the professional sportsman to not react to it? And when they do react, would it hurt to apologise afterwards?

[aintforever]

Those one or two moaners have probably cost us points (and Im sure they will moan about that too).

 

Football fans will always moan. IF Boruc didn't play because of the bottle incident (nonsense IMO) and IF him not playing cost us points then it's Boruc's own fault.

[ralph_wiggum]

LOL, what a joke, its the Chapels fault if we get relegated! Some people on this forum are complete morons! as are the ones who boo Guly!

 

Simple solution is we need a decent keeper, we dont have one with enough quality at the club at the moment, hopefully that will change in Jan!

[Dig Dig]

I agree, we should back our players regardless of what mistake they make. Not the case though is it. Individuals will always shout abuse if a player screws up. You can hear the audible groan when Guly misplaces a pass. Surely it is up to the professional sportsman to not react to it? And when they do react, would it hurt to apologise afterwards?

 

Using Guly as an example, why should he have to react positively to constant moans, jeers and boo's each time is name is announced or each time he misplaces a pass etc? This is a player who has helped us in achieving back to back promotions and works hard for the team.

[Saint Charlie]

In that case please allow me to apologise on behalf of those 2 and i shall endeavour to spur my team on by singing songs about a team 2 divisions below us. That should see us right.

 

Nothing about singing Pompey songs, its about not ruining the confidence of your own players.

 

Im sure when Gazzanitus struck vs Norwich and the two in question saw Snodgrass's free kick squirm in they called for a more experienced keeper to come in...oh the irony.

[aintforever]

Definitely, you can notice it online or just chatting to fans. Most used to really get behind weaker players like Benali and co., appreciate the workrate and realise moaning and booing wouldn't do anyone any favours. Yet someone like Guly, who is technically far better than many players we've made do with in the past, gets a lot of stick.

 

I think it's partly football fans being more easily frustrated and impatient due to high ticket prices and ridiculous wages. It was easier to be patient and supportive of what seemed like decent honest professionals. Yes they still earned a lot, but mid-90s or so most players still seemed vaguely normal and down to earth, which isn't the case at most clubs anymore. But understanding the frustration doesn't change the fact that booing etc does zero good for anyone.

 

I think the main problem are the fans who sit there and don't contribute any sort of support at all.

 

Face it, apart from the Northam and Northam Kingsland corner the rest of the fans might as well be at home watching the TV for all the good they do. The Chapel, Itchen and Kindsland's support is so poor.

[Sour Mash]

I agree, we should back our players regardless of what mistake they make. Not the case though is it. Individuals will always shout abuse if a player screws up. You can hear the audible groan when Guly misplaces a pass. Surely it is up to the professional sportsman to not react to it? And when they do react, would it hurt to apologise afterwards?

Do we know if these fans that were so badly hurt by Boruc's actions in the Spurs game have been apologised to or not? Yeah they probably shouldn't react, but I think if anyone came to our place of work and gave us stick we'd tell them to get lost as a minimum? Footballers are only human at the end of the day, reagardless of how much they get paid.

[Saint Charlie]

Football fans will always moan. IF Boruc didn't play because of the bottle incident (nonsense IMO) and IF him not playing cost us points then it's Boruc's own fault.

 

Its not nonsense. Adkins said he wasn't being considered whilst this was investigated so he clearly didnt play because of the incident.

 

In the next match KD was inept vs Leeds which we lost, then following that Gazza was shaky vs WBA and then cost us 2 points vs Swansea.

[Dig Dig]

I think the main problem are the fans who sit there and don't contribute any sort of support at all.Face it, apart from the Northam and Northam Kingsland corner the rest of the fans might as well be at home watching the TV for all the good they do. The Chapel, Itchen and Kindsland's support is so poor.

 

No, the main problem is the fans with their constant negative bile. If they were silent, it would make for a better atmosphere if you only heard the sections of the crowd who do want to make noise and get behind the team.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Still cannot begin to understand some of the abuse aimed at Guly.

 

Particularly after last night. The goal was just bad luck, if it was Rickie - which it could just have easily of been, there would be nothing like the reaction that Guly got.

 

Felt really sorry for the bloke, he looked absolutely gutted after being subbed - other than that I felt he put in a decent shift.

 

RE: Boruc it's hard to say really. We don't know for sure the reasoning behind his spell on the sidelines. Maybe it was fitness, lack of match sharpness, that incident or a combination of the 3.

[Saint Charlie]

No, the main problem is the fans with their constant negative bile. If they were silent, it would make for a better atmosphere if you only heard the sections of the crowd who do want to make noise and get behind the team.

 

The best is when we get put under pressure in midfield so the players pass back to Fonte and Yoshida (as instructed) to retain possession.

 

Sections of the crowd who lack footballing understanding shout to "get it forward". Eventually ball gets lumped forward and comes to nothing.

 

Cue groans from those same fans.

[aintforever]

Its not nonsense. Adkins said he wasn't being considered whilst this was investigated so he clearly didnt play because of the incident.

 

Just an excuse IMO. They could watch the incident on TV and make a decision in seconds. Saying there was an investigation was just better than saying he's unfit and needs an attitude adjustment.

[Sour Mash]

The best is when we get put under pressure in midfield so the players pass back to Fonte and Yoshida (as instructed) to retain possession.

 

Sections of the crowd who lack footballing understanding shout to "get it forward". Eventually ball gets lumped forward and comes to nothing.

 

Cue groans from those same fans.

That's another thng that does my head in. How hard is it to understand what we're doing and why we're doing it?

[Dig Dig]

The best is when we get put under pressure in midfield so the players pass back to Fonte and Yoshida (as instructed).

 

Sections of the crowd who lack footballing understanding shout to "get it forward". Eventually balls gets lumped forward and comes to nothing.

 

Cue groans from those same fans.

 

These fans just want us to be playing kick and rush and want the players to be running around at 100mph even if they are not doing anything effective.

 

Probably the same fans who call for Chaplow to be playing because he gets stuck in and who don't value the benefit of keeping possesion and dominating the midfield.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Definitely, you can notice it online or just chatting to fans. Most used to really get behind weaker players like Benali and co., appreciate the workrate and realise moaning and booing wouldn't do anyone any favours. Yet someone like Guly, who is technically far better than many players we've made do with in the past, gets a lot of stick.

 

I think it's partly football fans being more easily frustrated and impatient due to high ticket prices and ridiculous wages. It was easier to be patient and supportive of what seemed like decent honest professionals. Yes they still earned a lot, but mid-90s or so most players still seemed vaguely normal and down to earth, which isn't the case at most clubs anymore. But understanding the frustration doesn't change the fact that booing etc does zero good for anyone.

 

To be fair though, the big difference between Benali and Guly is that Benali was a grafter who got stuck in, whereas Guly has a style which makes him appear lazy (emphasising the work 'appear').

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Still cannot begin to understand some of the abuse aimed at Guly.

 

Particularly after last night. The goal was just bad luck, if it was Rickie - which it could just have easily of been, there would be nothing like the reaction that Guly got.

 

Felt really sorry for the bloke, he looked absolutely gutted after being subbed - other than that I felt he put in a decent shift.

 

RE: Boruc it's hard to say really. We don't know for sure the reasoning behind his spell on the sidelines. Maybe it was fitness, lack of match sharpness, that incident or a combination of the 3.

 

Agree he doesn't deserve blame for the own goal, but he does have a habit of doing other things that are a red rag to the crowd, like the open goal miss against Stoke and more generally not jumping for headers

[aintforever]

The best is when we get put under pressure in midfield so the players pass back to Fonte and Yoshida (as instructed) to retain possession.

 

Sections of the crowd who lack footballing understanding shout to "get it forward". Eventually ball gets lumped forward and comes to nothing.

 

Cue groans from those same fans.

 

Sometimes it makes sense to knock it up to Lambert instead of patting it around at the back getting nowhere, it's about getting the balance right. Lambert won everything in the air yesterday.

[Glasgow_Saint]

booing your own player is just stuuuuuupid

[Saint Charlie]

That's another thng that does my head in. How hard is it to understand what we're doing and why we're doing it?

 

My other favourite is where a team will play a long ball up to their target man and Fonte or Yoshida will win a 50-50 in the air whilst being pulled and tugged everywhere, but if the ball isn't cushioned down to one of our players immaculately then its just not good enough.

 

Also, where we play one up front and the GK of the other team has the ball. Our player is standing in the middle of their centre halfs, so he can close down whichever the GK plays the ball to.

 

Then fans howl at the player, Lambert or Ramirez to close the ball down. This is an effective tactic for two reasons:

 

1. It usually results in a goal due to a blocked clearance approximately once a decade.

2. It gives the GK an easy pass sideways to the CB who can then go unchallenged to the halfway line.

 

Our frontman is now tired, offside and getting an earful from NA (and also the crowd who now want him to hare back to slide tackle the marauding centre back.)

[CB Saint]

The best is when we get put under pressure in midfield so the players pass back to Fonte and Yoshida (as instructed) to retain possession.

 

Sections of the crowd who lack footballing understanding shout to "get it forward". Eventually ball gets lumped forward and comes to nothing.

 

Cue groans from those same fans.

 

God, this!! I have one of our enlightened brethren who sits behind me doing this all game.

 

What exactly is Maya or Fonte supposed to do if they have their back to the opposion and are being pressed by a striker - the keeper is there as a option so we use it. It's not negative, it's clever keep ball footie. After all, the opposition can't score if we've got the ball. I would love to know just how many of the long balls result in our possesion - sure RL might be first to a flick on, but more often than not the other side come up with the ball.

[SaintDominic]

The issue of some of our fans being clueless was summed up for me yesterday when a man a few rows behind me in Kingland North repeatedly yelled 'Get in to them J-Rod' for about 70 minutes but then bizarrely stopped once J-Rod came on to the pitch.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Fiorentina's best keeper of recent times not enough for you then?

 

Is he really better than Sebastien Frey? I thought he only came into the team after Frey was injured, and later sold?

[tartan_saint]

Face it, apart from the Northam and Northam Kingsland corner the rest of the fans might as well be at home watching the TV for all the good they do. The Chapel, Itchen and Kindsland's support is so poor.

 

The support from the Northam has been nothing special this season and for the recordm, the atmosphere and support from Blocks 2 & 3 have been, at times a lot better.

[tajjuk]

Is he really better than Sebastien Frey? I thought he only came into the team after Frey was injured, and later sold?

 

Frey was sold because he couldn't get back into the team because Boruc was good.

 

You aren't the number one at a club like Fiorentina in the Serie A for two years if you aren't a good keeper. Frey moved from Fiorentina to Genoa which is a bit of a step down.

 

Boruc was fairly solid against Spurs, not much he could have done about either goal (was far more bad defending) so the fan reactions were very stupid, but then so was his reaction.

 

I thought second half yesterday the fans got behind him and there was genuine applause when he calmly claimed some high balls at the end.

[SaintNeil90]

I was in the Chapel yesterday for the first time in years.

 

I couldnt believe the abuse Boruc was getting. At one point when the ball was rolling to him people were going 'ooooooooooooo' and cheering when he did something right.

 

Absolute disgrace. One reason I hate the Premier League, we get all these pathetic fans back.

[Saint Charlie]

I was in the Chapel yesterday for the first time in years.

 

I couldnt believe the abuse Boruc was getting. At one point when the ball was rolling to him people were going 'ooooooooooooo' and cheering when he did something right.

 

Absolute disgrace. One reason I hate the Premier League, we get all these pathetic fans back.

 

So people feel they can abuse but turn into wimpy pansies when the lad dares to throw a light plastic water bottle into the fans.

 

Sums it up really.

[Dig Dig]

Boruc's solid performances and our improved defensive displays in general certainly vindicates Saint Charlie's assumption that the Chapel fans have a lot to be sorry for regarding their behaviour towards Boruc.

 

The club should find the individuals involved and ban them IMO.

[Saint Charlie]

Boruc's solid performances and our improved defensive displays in general certainly vindicates Saint Charlie's assumption that the Chapel fans have a lot to be sorry for regarding their behaviour towards Boruc.

 

The club should find the individuals involved and ban them IMO.

 

Bans are harsh IMO but the individuals involved should be held accountable for the 3 or 4 points they have probably cost us by hounding him out the team.

 

Luckily class will out.

[Saint Charlie]

Good to see Boruc has a call up for Poland.

 

Wonder if the abusers in the Chapel are snivelling now? Pathetic fans.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Were you interviewing yourself at the start of this thread Charlie?

 

It reminded me of the Commitments.

[Saint Charlie]

Were you interviewing yourself at the start of this thread Charlie?

 

It reminded me of the Commitments.

 

 

I was hoping the Echo would copy and paste it onto their back page....they still might.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Do you ever put on other voices for the interviewer like the guy in the commitments does with Wogan? You could do Alan Brazil if reading it in the mornings, Jim White on transfer deadline day etc. Might add to the fun of it.

[Saint Charlie]

Do you ever put on other voices for the interviewer like the guy in the commitments does with Wogan? You could do Alan Brazil if reading it in the mornings, Jim White on transfer deadline day etc. Might add to the fun of it.

 

No - the words speak for themselves.

 

The Chapel fans who abused Boruc might well have cost us four vital points. If we go down it will be their fault IMO.