Are we a better side without Lallana?

[simo]

No !

[Smirking_Saint]

So in summery, should another fan dare to express an opinion about a player that differs from yours, you can see no possibly, other than prejudice, to explain this anomaly. Do you entirely dismiss the idea that fans can sometimes disagree about players in good faith?

 

You have quite a high opinion of yourself don't you?

 

A rather hypocritical last sentance there Chapel but Im going to assume you knew that.

 

No, basically I am saying I find it hard to see how anyone who has a balanced viewpoint can turn around and say that guly has produced no positives in the last year despite evidence that he obviously has.

 

I am perfectly happy to discuss and agree/disagree, please dont attempt to twist things and ignore the crux of the arguement.

[Turkish]

I wasn't impressed - what do you think?

 

Why not?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

A rather hypocritical last sentance there Chapel but Im going to assume you knew that.

 

No, basically I am saying I find it hard to see how anyone who has a balanced viewpoint can turn around and say that guly has produced no positives in the last year despite evidence that he obviously has.

 

I am perfectly happy to discuss and agree/disagree, please dont attempt to twist things and ignore the crux of the arguement.

 

How is a fan supposed to be "balanced" when (in my honest opinion) a certain player continues to underperform and yet some on here insist on constantly heaping any amount of undeserved praise on him? If for instance I said that Benito Mussolini was a warmongering Fascist bastard, but he made the trains run on time, would that satisfy your balance criteria? Balance is very overrated if you ask me.

 

It has been in the past, and it will continue to be in the future, my posting policy to express my opinions in a honest and forthright manner. Frankly I just don't give a damn if you think that criticizing this player makes be prejudiced - because I'll say what I think without fear or favour to anybody.

[Tamesaint]

We did miss lallana in the first match of the Christmas holidays aginst Sunderland. Who knows what could have been in that game if we had had his creativity.

 

Having sad that, in Guly we do seem to have a good shape to the team.

[Turkish]

How is a fan supposed to be "balanced" when (in my honest opinion) a certain player continues to underperform and yet some on here insist on constantly heaping any amount of undeserved praise on him? If for instance I said that Benito Mussolini was a warmongering Fascist bastard, but he made the trains run on time, would that satisfy your balance criteria? Balance is very overrated if you ask me.

 

It has been in the past, and it will continue to be in the future, my posting policy to express my opinions in a honest and forthright manner. Frankly I just don't give a damn if you think that criticizing this player makes be prejudiced - because I'll say what I think without fear or favour to anybody.

 

Why weren't you impressed with his performance today?

[Turkish]

We did miss lallana in the first match of the Christmas holidays aginst Sunderland. Who knows what could have been in that game if we had had his creativity.

 

Having sad that, in Guly we do seem to have a good shape to the team.

 

I suppose that leads onto another point. Away from home and against the top sides we need that extra defensive strength an balance so is there room for Ramirez and Lallana or is it one or the other? It's fine at home or against the weaker sides, but with them both in the side the teams might exploit it.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Why weren't you impressed with his performance today?

 

Why won't you share your opinion with us? - You're not known for being shy.

[Smirking_Saint]

How is a fan supposed to be "balanced" when (in my honest opinion) a certain player continues to underperform and yet some on here insist on constantly heaping any amount of undeserved praise on him? If for instance I said that Benito Mussolini was a warmongering Fascist bastard, but he made the trains run on time, would that satisfy your balance criteria? Balance is very overrated if you ask me.

 

It has been in the past, and it will continue to be in the future, my posting policy to express my opinions in a honest and forthright manner. Frankly I just don't give a damn if you think that criticizing this player makes be prejudiced - because I'll say what I think without fear or favour to anybody.

 

Your a clever chap, you know what I meant, congrats on glossing over the main points though, its inspiring how you so effectively avoid answering the most simple of questions.

 

Im not asking you to change your views, just cannot see how you can see no positives from Gulys inclusion

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Your a clever chap, you know what I meant, congrats on glossing over the main points though, its inspiring how you so effectively avoid answering the most simple of questions.

 

Im not asking you to change your views, just cannot see how you can see no positives from Gulys inclusion

 

I think even you would struggle to argue that his most significant contribution to todays game was not the own goal - but if you disagree then please explain why. It is a matter of fact is it not that this player has failed to score a goal in (other than todays OG that is) in nearly 12 months of football.

 

Now you may call that prejudice, I call it the truth.

[ottery st mary]

Lallana is class act and on the team sheet when fit.

 

We are a much better and more dangerous team with him in.

 

Guly was much improved today and worked very hard.

 

Well done Saints..

 

Whatever happens ...Fonte to retain the captain armband.........Let Adam concentrate on his football when he comes back.

[Turkish]

Why won't you share your opinion with us? - You're not known for being shy.

 

I thought that would fairly obvious given my comments about us looking a a more solid and balanced unit with him there. Now, tell us why he was so unimpressive. A lot of people seem to agree with me so I'm interested to know what you think and how you saw it so differently.

[Turkish]

I think even you would struggle to argue that his most significant contribution to todays game was not the own goal - but if you disagree then please explain why. It is a matter of fact is it not that this player has failed to score a goal in (other than todays OG that is) in nearly 12 months of football.

 

Now you may call that prejudice, I call it the truth.

 

Watch our goal again. Whose interception and pressure on the defender led to it?

[david in sweden]

Lallana has to play if fit. He's class. But it's good to have alternatives if Adam isn't working

 

I agree. I think the OP is just Turkish being a bit controversial ..??

 

It's good to see that we had a Plan B....and even a Plan C.....but longer term we would miss Adam if he weren't there, but it does give other players a chance to be seen....for better or worse.

[channonball]

We haven't won any games over Xmas. We miss lallana!

[david in sweden]

I think even you would struggle to argue that his most significant contribution to todays game was not the own goal - but if you disagree then please explain why. It is a matter of fact is it not that this player has failed to score a goal in (other than todays OG that is) in nearly 12 months of football. Now you may call that prejudice, I call it the truth.

 

 

there hasn't been 12 months of football for Guly since his last goal......that's quite extreme. He was joint leading scorer (with 10 goals) up until his last goal in January 2012.

After which he started only 7 times and made a few sub.apps......after the arrival of Lee and Sharp, and didn't even make the bench regularly in the meantime.

 

He played in two of the first 4 catastophic games this season (and wasn't the only player to be criticised) and lost his place to RAMIREZ.

His only other start was at WHam, until the game at Stoke when I thought that he was a good candidate for MOM .......and aside from the unfortunate OG yesterday.... I thought he put in his share v. Arsenal.

 

Saying 12 months of football sounds quite damning , when he's actually only started about a dozen games and had an hour or so of sub. apps in the that time. Quite unfair.

[david in sweden]

We haven't won any games over Xmas. We miss lallana!

 

We missed Lallana because he's not there, and my guess is that he's likely to be out for a while longer, so we need to get used to the idea.

.....but did you really expect us to get 9 points from our visits to; Fulham, unbeaten Stoke and the return fixture with Arsenal (considering their recent form)?

I didn't.

[Turkish]

I agree. I think the OP is just Turkish being a bit controversial ..??

 

It's good to see that we had a Plan B....and even a Plan C.....but longer term we would miss Adam if he weren't there, but it does give other players a chance to be seen....for better or worse.

 

Why? It's a geniune question. As usual a lot people missing the point, no one is disputing Lallanas ability. We've had two good results and two good performances against teams bang in form and barring a last minute screamer and a linesmans decision it sould have been 2 wins against a team with the best home record in the country and another team packed full of internationals banging in goals. This isn't just conincidence, it's because as a unit we've looked much more solid unit and a better team, IMO. Which is why i asked the question.

[tajjuk]

No.

 

Lallana has been our most consistent attacking threat this season, I'm pretty sure only Juan Mata in the league has created more oppurtunities for his teammates than Lallana.

 

Last time I checked that was a winger/attacking midfielders primary job and he does it way better than anyone else we have and consistently. Guly offered little going forward yesterday and Puncheon had one his frustrating 'only cuts inside' games, Lallana might have given us the extra cutting edge needed to get the win.

 

It's nice to see Guly is playing well and has filled in well but we are a worse team without Lallana.

 

As for the defensive side, I've not seen anyone work harder than Lallana, but as with all wingers/wide midfielders sometimes they will get caught ahead of the ball, unless you don't actually want them to attack. Guly worked tirelessly yesterday but Sagna still got into dangerous positions on a few occasions, same has happened with Lallana and Puncheon many times this season.

Edited 2 January, 2013 by tajjuk

[dubai_phil]

Until he REALLY learns to play football with his head up consistently I think you can make an argument for AL returning in place of Puncheon and Guly switching sides.

 

Puncheon is IMHO our most frustrating footballer, he is so close to being excellent but it is always around the box that something seems to panic in his head. He delays the final ball, it is too weak, picks the wrong optionb or he just doesn't shoot with conviction.

 

Since his return Guly seems to added the ability to "appear" to Saints fans to run around more hence less stick and does at least seem to have more conviction around the opponents box.

 

What are the pass completion stats again? Would wager more of Guly's are in the oppo half than Puncheon's

[pap]

Nothing wrong with the question. I like Ads a lot, but he can be just as frustrating as anyone else on his day. Funny thing is, if you'd have asked this a year ago, you'd have been shouted down in a cacophony. I certainly remember feeling a due sense of dread whenever Lallana or Lambert were out.

 

I don't feel like that anymore. So yep, of course we miss him. Most teams would. If we come through this patch with better team performances without Ads, we'd be mental not to try and work out why that is.

[channonball]

Yes I'd expect to win one game in 3. Fulham are in dire form and you've got to aim to win all your home games regardless of the opposition's status.

 

Besides those 3 games, Sunderland was the game I would have expected us to win.

[Turkish]

Yes I'd expect to win one game in 3. Fulham are in dire form and you've got to aim to win all your home games regardless of the opposition's status.

 

Besides those 3 games, Sunderland was the game I would have expected us to win.

 

When i looked at the fixture list over xmas i thought we'd do well to get a point. We're two points better off than i thought we'd be. We've played two good sides who are both in form. Fulham, perhaps we should have won but then they'd be thinking the same as well.

[david in sweden]

Why? It's a geniune question. As usual a lot people missing the point, no one is disputing Lallanas ability. QUOTE]

 

 

 

RESPONSE.......If you're looking for opinions ...and if you get enough people answering YES.... your NEXT question has to be .....what do we do with him?

 

(a) play him despite everything else that's happened?........(b)...leave him on the bench at the start and use him as an impact player?....©..sell him to the highest bidder (and there be few of those).

 

Which of those alternatives do you propose...... or do you have another idea?

 

You must have your own ideas otherwise you wouldn't have asked the question ?

Edited 2 January, 2013 by david in sweden

[Turkish]

Why? It's a geniune question. As usual a lot people missing the point, no one is disputing Lallanas ability. QUOTE]

 

.......and if you get enough people answering YES.... your NEXT question has to be .....what do we do with him?

 

(a) play him despite everything else that's happened?........(b)...leave him on the bench at the start and use him as an impact player?....©..sell him to the highest bidder (and there be few of those).

 

Which of those alternatives do you propose...... or do you have another idea?

 

I think what is evident is that if we play lallana and Ramirez, ie two flair players, against the better sides or away from home against most top half sides, it leaves us too open. We cant play them at their own game and expect to win, you've only got to look at our away form Pre injury to work that out. At home we can get away with it and when we have a lot of the ball and other teams come to defend. I dont think we can against the better sides. I think against these sides we play one or the other and set ourselves up to be a solid, compact unit and set out to defend well and be difficult to score against. Teams like Saints aren't successful by filling the team with attacking players, we have to be balanced and we will never get results against top sides by trying to outscore them.

[pap]

Not really Turkish's job is it?

 

However, my preference would be to play Lallana BUT to have a decent understanding of how to play optimally with him in the side.

[The Kraken]

I think what is evident is that if we play lallana and Ramirez, ie two flair players, against the better sides or away from home against most top half sides, it leaves us too open. We cant play them at their own game and expect to win, you've only got to look at our away form Pre injury to work that out. At home we can get away with it and when we have a lot of the ball and other teams come to defend. I dont think we can against the better sides. I think against these sides we play one or the other and set ourselves up to be a solid, compact unit and set out to defend well and be difficult to score against. Teams like Saints aren't successful by filling the team with attacking players, we have to be balanced and we will never get results against top sides by trying to outscore them.

 

Seems quite striking that we played the Stoke game with Ramirez out too.

 

As you say, at home its less of a problem to have two such flair players. Away from home and against the better sides we've looked vulnerable all season. I wonder if the Stoke result will encourage NA to try that again.

[david in sweden]

 

I think what is evident is that if we play lallana and Ramirez, ie two flair players, against the better sides or away from home against most top half sides, it leaves us too open. We cant play them at their own game and expect to win, you've only got to look at our away form Pre injury to work that out. At home we can get away with it and when we have a lot of the ball and other teams come to defend. I dont think we can against the better sides. I think against these sides we play one or the other and set ourselves up to be a solid, compact unit and set out to defend well and be difficult to score against. Teams like Saints aren't successful by filling the team with attacking players, we have to be balanced and we will never get results against top sides by trying to outscore them.

 

 

but I didn't see your answer Turkish. I'm interested to hear your viewpoint. Would you agree with (a) (b) © or.......some do you have another suggestion?.

 

You asked if we were a better side without Lallana...?

you've praised his qualities (and some others)...and talked tactics, but you must have your own opinion, surely?....or are you undecided?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

there hasn't been 12 months of football for Guly since his last goal......that's quite extreme. He was joint leading scorer (with 10 goals) up until his last goal in January 2012.

After which he started only 7 times and made a few sub.apps......after the arrival of Lee and Sharp, and didn't even make the bench regularly in the meantime ...

 

Firstly, I can see nothing "extreme" in pointing out that a forward player of ours has failed to score in 12 months - this is a matter of fact as you concede. Secondly, he never truly lost his place to Billy Sharp & Tadanori Lee - fairer to say he has been in and out of the team over the last year. Thirdly, your "few" substitute appearances (I believe Guly has made 14 appearances so far this season alone) amount to a significant amount of game time - certainly far more than either Lee or (the departed) Billy Sharp have enjoyed. It is also a matter of fact that Billy Sharp netted 9 times for this club during his brief stay here last season - for that matter we have central defenders who have scored more often than this striker/wide player.

 

 

But apart from these few points this is a good post.

[pap]

Am I on the wrong thread?

 

I thought this was about whether we're a better side with Ads out.

[Turkish]

 

 

but I didn't see your answer Turkish. I'm interested to hear your viewpoint. Would you agree with (a) (b) © or.......some do you have another suggestion?.

 

You asked if we were a better side without Lallana...?

you've praised his qualities (and some others)...and talked tactics, but you must have your own opinion, surely?....or are you undecided?

 

I think you need to read my post again David.

[CaneNero]

No. Start Lallana every game possible.

[david in sweden]

Firstly, I can see nothing "extreme" in pointing out that a forward player of ours has failed to score in 12 months - this is a matter of fact as you concede. Secondly, he never truly lost his place to Billy Sharp & Tadanori Lee - fairer to say he has been in and out of the team over the last year. Thirdly, your "few" substitute appearances (I believe Guly has made 14 appearances so far this season alone) amount to a significant amount of game time - certainly far more than either Lee or (the departed) Billy Sharp have enjoyed. It is also a matter of fact that Billy Sharp netted 9 times for this club during his brief stay here last season - for that matter we have central defenders who have scored more often than this striker/wide player.

But apart from these few points this is a good post.

 

 

THX ...but I think you must have diff. stats to me. My comment on the few subs. was referring to last season.

After he scored his last goal (Jan 2012) he played in only 9 games... came on as 2nd or 3rd sub. 6 times.... and didn't even make the bench in 4 other games.

 

This season ...as far as I can see...

Guly has started League games only 5 times, and has been 2nd and even 3rd sub. on only 7 occasions.... (I haven't counted the minutes, but once was in 89th min.)

 

He been an unused sub 4 times ...and wasn't even selected for the bench on at least 4 other occasions...(or maybe I'm wrong but I wrote my original post based on memory).

[david in sweden]

I think you need to read my post again David.

 

OK I did. So you're suggesting that we shouldn't look to pick pick BOTH Lallana AND Ramirez in every game?....or ....? is there something else I missed from an earlier post ?...... or ?

 

I'm only looking for a single sentence answer. Please

[pap]

 

OK I did. So you're suggesting that we shouldn't look to pick pick BOTH Lallana AND Ramirez in every game?....or ....? is there something else I missed from an earlier post ?...... or ?

 

I'm only looking for a single sentence answer. Please

 

You should go on Twitter.

[Turkish]

 

OK I did. So you're suggesting that we shouldn't look to pick pick BOTH Lallana AND Ramirez in every game?....or ....? is there something else I missed from an earlier post ?...... or ?

 

I'm only looking for a single sentence answer. Please

 

Do i really need to repeat myself? I thought my previus post was quite clear. Against the top sides and away from home then i dont believe we should start with Ramirez AND Lallana. It leaves us too OPEN and prior to Lallanas injury we'd lost every game expect one. Results seem to support this.

[pap]

 

Do i really need to repeat myself? I thought my previus post was quite clear. Against the top sides and away from home then i dont believe we should start with Ramirez AND Lallana. It leaves us too OPEN and prior to Lallanas injury we'd lost every game expect one. Results seem to support this.

 

Bold words, Turkish.

[CB Saint]

My seven year old nephew said yesterday that guly played well - out of the mouth of babes and all that.

[Sour Mash]

Think there is definitely the case for playing Guly in games where we need to be tighter defensively, particularly in tougher games. Playing Lallana, Ramirez and a striker away from home does leave us exposed at times.

[The9]

Oh yeah?

 

My 6 year old told me (entirely unprompted I might add) that "Guly is rubbish" - out of the mouth of babes as the saying has it. Now if a mere child can see this obvious truth why is it that grown men come on here after every game reciting the same tiresome old tripe about how great he supposedly is?

 

As for this team being better without Adam Lallana ... well that would be another opinion I can't agree with.

 

Jeeze, anyone would think that 6 year olds weren't mainly interested in repeating anything grown ups say to make themselves sound cleverer.

 

The alternative being of course that your 6 year old knows nothing about football.

[egg]

On balance we are a better side with AL, but I agree that it's difficult to make a case fro him, GR, JP and a striker in the team against the better sides and particularly away.

 

Guly offered great solidity and tracking back yesterday and was a very able, albeit very different, replacement for AL.

 

To those who judge a player by his goal scoring record alone, behave. Guly has scored many vital goals for us but over the christmas period he has been asked to play a supportive left sided role that has freed up space for others and offered support to Shaw. I doubt RL, or anyone, would score many goals in that role.

[Dellman]

I'm surprised we've managed as well as we have without AL, shows the manager is building a genuine squad, but I want AL back as soon as poss NOT as captain, let Fonte carry on he has been terrific and centre of defence is the best place for a captain

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

 

 

THX ...but I think you must have diff. stats to me. My comment on the few subs. was referring to last season.

After he scored his last goal (Jan 2012) he played in only 9 games... came on as 2nd or 3rd sub. 6 times.... and didn't even make the bench in 4 other games.

 

This season ...as far as I can see...

Guly has started League games only 5 times, and has been 2nd and even 3rd sub. on only 7 occasions.... (I haven't counted the minutes, but once was in 89th min.)

 

He been an unused sub 4 times ...and wasn't even selected for the bench on at least 4 other occasions...(or maybe I'm wrong but I wrote my original post based on memory).

 

OK then, how many years will this regular feature in our team have to go without scoring before your lordship would consider that fair grounds for comment? He's signed until 2014 I understand ...

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

On balance we are a better side with AL, but I agree that it's difficult to make a case fro him, GR, JP and a striker in the team against the better sides and particularly away.

 

Guly offered great solidity and tracking back yesterday and was a very able, albeit very different, replacement for AL.

 

To those who judge a player by his goal scoring record alone, behave. Guly has scored many vital goals for us but over the christmas period he has been asked to play a supportive left sided role that has freed up space for others and offered support to Shaw. I doubt RL, or anyone, would score many goals in that role.

 

Rather a long time ago.

 

You don't see goal scoring as an important feature in a forward players game?

[Turkish]

OK then, how many years will this regular feature in our team have to go without scoring before your lordship would consider that fair grounds for comment? He's signed until 2014 I understand ...

 

Sorry, still cant see where you've said why Guly was so unimpressive yesterday. I'm interested to know.

[Dig Dig]

Sorry, still cant see where you've said why Guly was so unimpressive yesterday. I'm interested to know.

 

His 6 year old said he was rubbish so how can you argue with that?

[The Kraken]

Rather a long time ago.

 

You don't see goal scoring as an important feature in a forward players game?

 

Depends what else he is doing, really. If he's setting up goals and/or working for the benefit of the team in a particular role that's not typically his own (and that he wouldn't be first choice for were it not for injuries) then he's doing a decent job.

 

If you're going to hold up goal scoring as the be all and end all then we also probably need to get rid of Mayuka and start being ready to ship out Rodriguez, what with their combined two league goals between them.

[SuperMikey]

Are you comfortable on that bandwagon Charlie? Try not to sit there for too long, you'll get piles.

 

Fact of the matter is that I can't really think of a game this season where Guly's been as awful as people say he is. He's put in some great performances and covered a hell of a lot of ground too. He may be unlucky not to have scored (having some very good long range efforts saved over the last few games), but it will come. You can tell he's looking more confident and he adds flair and quality to the team.

[Smirking_Saint]

OK then, how many years will this regular feature in our team have to go without scoring before your lordship would consider that fair grounds for comment? He's signed until 2014 I understand ...

 

All Im saying is I cannot concede how you cannot see that Guly adds something to the team, to say otherwise is nonsense. Should he start every game ? Probably not

 

Will Adam start ahead of him ? Probably

 

But he is definately the best option we have to balance the front four right now, and if you couldnt see his value yesterday and against Stoke then there really is no point discussing, you have made up your mind, and cannot see any positives at all.

 

If you cannot see how a forward player can effect the game without necessarily scoring a goal whats the point ?

[egg]

Rather a long time ago.

 

You don't see goal scoring as an important feature in a forward players game?

 

It is, but not the only one. It would be different if he was playing the full 90 up front week in and week out. Instead he's been mostly left on the sidelines, and over christmas played out wide with defensive responsibilities. He's done his job well. If you disagree, and as others have asked, what did Guly do wrong yesterday? If scoring goals is the only matter that suggests a good performance I presume you feel that lambert and puncheon were poor as well ?