alpine_saint Posted 2 January, 2013 Share Posted 2 January, 2013 When Cortese became involved we were a busted club. When Adkins came in we were near the botton of Div 1. Since then we have been promoted to Championship and then Premier in 2 seasons having had Cortese stabilize the club in his first year. I think I will trust their judgement on decision making/transfer stategy I get the gist of your post, R, but it still remains to be seen if their odd priorities and tardiness in other departments during the Summer has ultimately cost us our so hard fought-for return to the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 2 January, 2013 Share Posted 2 January, 2013 I thought the general opinion is that this issue doesnt have a lot to do with Nigel. My main problem with him is his substitutions. Personally, I find this hard to believe. Just because others also have a say, doesn't mean Nigel has none. Are we really so old fashioned that we cannot get our heads around the idea of recruitment being handled by several people? It seems a lot to ask of a manager in the modern game to cope with identifying players, negotiating with clubs, dealing with agents, etc etc etc whilst still handling all the other rigours of managing/coaching a football club. Seems unrealistic if you ask me. In no other business would you expect so much of one person, unless it were a very small company. For example, the company I work for have a policy where no person is hired unless they have been approved by 6 members of existing staff. This idea of using a committee really isn't that odd, I find it baffling how some think it is such an affront to Adkins. Just to be clear, this is not aimed specifically at you Alps, a lot on here have had plenty of moans about the 'committee' or Adders lack of control on transfers. I personally have no idea with transfers being a joint decision. Seems sensible when dealing with multi-million £ sums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 2 January, 2013 Share Posted 2 January, 2013 I get the gist of your post, R, but it still remains to be seen if their odd priorities and tardiness in other departments during the Summer has ultimately cost us our so hard fought-for return to the PL. How do you know? We only know who we signed and the rest was mostly paper gossip. Nothing to say we didn't line up brilliant transfers and have all the right ideas but they didn't come off for one reason or another (Buttner was the lb we all wanted, Butland we refused to pay over the odds, Phillips at Blackpool had some strange goings on at there end between chairman and manager ... these are just three high profile examples, may well have been more behind the scenes!). Crikey do you ever get bored of spouting the same tired line every week...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 2 January, 2013 Author Share Posted 2 January, 2013 I thought the general opinion is that this issue doesnt have a lot to do with Nigel. My main problem with him is his substitutions. Not my opinion. I do not understand his subs at times, it just seems to be for the sake of makings change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 2 January, 2013 Share Posted 2 January, 2013 Not my opinion. I do not understand his subs at times, it just seems to be for the sake of makings change. I really think sometimes people are blinded by Lambert. Yes, he is our talisman, and a massively important player for us. But if he is knackered, or ineffectual against a certain team (his lack of pace/mobility mean this will increasingly the case in the Prem I am afraid) then what is the point of keeping him on? Sometimes fresher, faster legs are a better alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints boy in Leeds Posted 2 January, 2013 Share Posted 2 January, 2013 Have we bought anyone yet? NA out! Chiiiill wiiiinston, its only day 2 !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 2 January, 2013 Share Posted 2 January, 2013 The usual pattern in the window for Saints will be followed again. 1. We know our weknesses and there are loads of rumours. 2. Nothing happens. 3. Mad panic in the last few hours. 4. Miss our main targets in key positions. We NEVER show urgency or intent and we never learn. I am afraid this attitude will almost certainly lead to relegation. Bury your heads in the sand, Alpine is right ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 2 January, 2013 Share Posted 2 January, 2013 The usual pattern in the window for Saints will be followed again. 1. We know our weknesses and there are loads of rumours. 2. Nothing happens. 3. Mad panic in the last few hours. 4. Miss our main targets in key positions. We NEVER show urgency or intent and we never learn. I am afraid this attitude will almost certainly lead to relegation. Bury your heads in the sand, Alpine is right ! Again you have absolutely no evidence for this. Total wind up merchant at work ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 3 January, 2013 Share Posted 3 January, 2013 The Board won't want to over-strengthen the squad and undermine their much-vaunted yo-yo policy. Having said that, I did encounter David Beckham and his missus buying petrol and The Daily Star this morning at Totton Esso garage. The usual pattern in the window for Saints will be followed again. 1. We know our weknesses and there are loads of rumours. 2. Nothing happens. 3. Mad panic in the last few hours. 4. Miss our main targets in key positions. We NEVER show urgency or intent and we never learn. I am afraid this attitude will almost certainly lead to relegation. Bury your heads in the sand, Alpine is right ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 3 January, 2013 Share Posted 3 January, 2013 The Board won't want to over-strengthen the squad and undermine their much-vaunted yo-yo policy. Having said that, I did encounter David Beckham and his missus buying petrol and The Daily Star this morning at Totton Esso garage. Nice try. That garage hasnt had any fuel since Christmas. Troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 3 January, 2013 Share Posted 3 January, 2013 Nice try. That garage hasnt had any fuel since Christmas. Troll. Oh the irony..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 3 January, 2013 Share Posted 3 January, 2013 The Board won't want to over-strengthen the squad and undermine their much-vaunted yo-yo policy. Having said that, I did encounter David Beckham and his missus buying petrol and The Daily Star this morning at Totton Esso garage. Daily Star ? That's a bit highbrow for them isn't it, more like Beano people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 4 January, 2013 Share Posted 4 January, 2013 The usual pattern in the window for Saints will be followed again. 1. We know our weknesses and there are loads of rumours. 2. Nothing happens. 3. Mad panic in the last few hours. 4. Miss our main targets in key positions. We NEVER show urgency or intent and we never learn. I am afraid this attitude will almost certainly lead to relegation. Seems like a reasonable summary to me, tbh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 4 January, 2013 Share Posted 4 January, 2013 The usual pattern in the window for Saints will be followed again. 1. We know our weknesses and there are loads of rumours. 2. Nothing happens. 3. Mad panic in the last few hours. 4. Miss our main targets in key positions. We NEVER show urgency or intent and we never learn. I am afraid this attitude will almost certainly lead to relegation. Bury your heads in the sand, Alpine is right ! Illiterate as well as a loon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 4 January, 2013 Share Posted 4 January, 2013 Yep, NC doesn't know what he is doing. That's why the squad hasn't improved in a single transfer window since his arrival. And why we have started every transfer window lower than we ended the last. Err hang on... That'swrong we have moved forward every single window... Maybe it you thats wrong...as usual! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 4 January, 2013 Share Posted 4 January, 2013 When the only two arguing one side are Alpine and Dalek, you know its time to quickly jump on board the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydie Posted 4 January, 2013 Share Posted 4 January, 2013 Wad ya mean NA out?! Nicola and Les out!!!! Have we not met Messi's €205 buy out clause yet?! If its only 205 euros ill f*cking buy him myself!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 4 January, 2013 Share Posted 4 January, 2013 Illiterate as well as a loon If that is the best you can do, then I will assume that my argument, which is the most important aspect of the post, is one you fully agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 4 January, 2013 Share Posted 4 January, 2013 Transfer news ....... Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing..Tick tock...nothing....Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 4 January, 2013 Share Posted 4 January, 2013 If that is the best you can do, then I will assume that my argument, which is the most important aspect of the post, is one you fully agree with. Sorry to disappoint you but i cannot remember every agreeing with any of the attention seeking garbage you have ever posted and certainly not your latest efforts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Sorry to disappoint you but i cannot remember every agreeing with any of the attention seeking garbage you have ever posted and certainly not your latest efforts Read my post again and work it out for yourselves. I am surprised you are so literal in your interpretation....then again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch01 Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 The usual pattern in the window for Saints will be followed again. 1. We know our weknesses and there are loads of rumours. 2. Nothing happens. 3. Mad panic in the last few hours. 4. Miss our main targets in key positions. We NEVER show urgency or intent and we never learn. I am afraid this attitude will almost certainly lead to relegation. Bury your heads in the sand, Alpine is right ! Yeah, thats probably why we haven't been very successful in the last few seasons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Read my post again and work it out for yourselves. I am surprised you are so literal in your interpretation....then again. Read your post again...no chance, once is more than enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 I'm in this camp:- Identify your targets and decide what you think they are worth As soon as the window opens get bang on the case If the selling club take the **** then move on, if not then buy Simple really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Read your post again...no chance, once is more than enough. Hmmm, your ability to make snap judgements without any form of analysis does not surprise me and your comments undermine and diminish any argument that you have ever made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 I'm in this camp:- Identify your targets and decide what you think they are worth As soon as the window opens get bang on the case If the selling club take the **** then move on, if not then buy Simple really Agree totally. Simple, shows intent and sorts out the problem efficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 I'm in this camp:- Identify your targets and decide what you think they are worth As soon as the window opens get bang on the case If the selling club take the **** then move on, if not then buy Simple really Have you been involved in multimillion pound transfer deals before? There's no way anyone can portray it in such a simple way unless they've been involved in some way or another. There is so much that goes on between both parties, it really isn't as straight forward as agreeing a fee and paying the money as it is on football manager. Plus, if we did move on as we couldn't agree, that would open a whole new negative debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Have you been involved in multimillion pound transfer deals before? There's no way anyone can portray it in such a simple way unless they've been involved in some way or another. There is so much that goes on between both parties, it really isn't as straight forward as agreeing a fee and paying the money as it is on football manager. Plus, if we did move on as we couldn't agree, that would open a whole new negative debate. It's easy brown paper bag and a motorway service station. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Have you been involved in multimillion pound transfer deals before? There's no way anyone can portray it in such a simple way unless they've been involved in some way or another. There is so much that goes on between both parties, it really isn't as straight forward as agreeing a fee and paying the money as it is on football manager. Plus, if we did move on as we couldn't agree, that would open a whole new negative debate. Never played football manager so havnt got a clue about that but what I've outlined is just a simplistic version of what I think should happen. Once a fee has been agreed with the selling club then the only problems you have to overcome is with the player/agent so the actual buying bit is easy......to me,if the selling club mess about for more than 48hrs then move on. I do count a few ex pros as friends so I do have a bit of an insight into how these things play out and I think a lot of the problems come down to the length of the transfer window itself,a month is a long time in football and in that month players get unsettled,they are left out of the squad to protect them,they refuse to play etc etc and it causes problems for clubs and also discontent with fans so I would either make the window shorter or extend it for the whole year as it was before this would ensure business is done quicker with little disruption. selling clubs tend to hold out for better deals and other offers until the last few hours. If other clubs can do deals quickly then so could we but we never do......tbh we could of done a deal to keep puncheon quickly but that hasn't even happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Hmmm, your ability to make snap judgements without any form of analysis does not surprise me and your comments undermine and diminish any argument that you have ever made. Hmmm, Your ability to make posts filled with ever increasing stupidity does not surprise me which in turn undermine any credible argument you may have ever attempted.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Every transfer window its the same here. No one has a clue what is going on behind the scenes but because nothing happens they assume that nothing is being done. Surely it is better to get your targets than ending up with players for the sake of it and for whatever reasons those targets do not always come off. We know that it is not Cortese's way to conduct his business through the press so there are probably less rumours floating around about us than other clubs. As Ron says, these people have proved themselves with back to back transfers so to suggest that they leave everything to the last minute, or don't know enough about the players we need when cyber jockeys on the Internet clearly do, is beyond laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCholulaKid Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Transfer news ....... Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing..Tick tock...nothing....Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing... Did you type all this out? Or did you copy and paste? Genuine question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 I'm in this camp:- Identify your targets and decide what you think they are worth As soon as the window opens get bang on the case If the selling club take the **** then move on, if not then buy Simple really Not rocket science, is it ? Really dont understand the pooving around that allows another 3 or 4 games to go down the plughole, and the risk of not securing anyone. Our weaknesses have been known for MONTHS. If the targets havent been identified for almost as long, our management arent doing their jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Never played football manager so havnt got a clue about that but what I've outlined is just a simplistic version of what I think should happen. Once a fee has been agreed with the selling club then the only problems you have to overcome is with the player/agent so the actual buying bit is easy......to me,if the selling club mess about for more than 48hrs then move on. I do count a few ex pros as friends so I do have a bit of an insight into how these things play out and I think a lot of the problems come down to the length of the transfer window itself,a month is a long time in football and in that month players get unsettled,they are left out of the squad to protect them,they refuse to play etc etc and it causes problems for clubs and also discontent with fans so I would either make the window shorter or extend it for the whole year as it was before this would ensure business is done quicker with little disruption. selling clubs tend to hold out for better deals and other offers until the last few hours. If other clubs can do deals quickly then so could we but we never do......tbh we could of done a deal to keep puncheon quickly but that hasn't even happened. Yep, this for me is concrete proof that this club turns transfer activity into a f**king circus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Yep, this for me is concrete proof that this club turns transfer activity into a f**king circus. Stfuayt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Did you type all this out? Or did you copy and paste? Genuine question. Probably got his yoyo to type it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Stfuayt There is no need for a false smiley, I reckon. I dont think the mods infract for abbreviations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Transfer news ....... Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing..Tick tock...nothing....Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing...Tick tock...nothing... It's ok we have MArk Draper and Uwe Rosler lined up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Compare with Joe Cole to West ham, immediate impact. We've been not getting decent centre halves in for years. And keepers. And centre midfielders. Really hoping we get reinforcements but have that sense, honed over years, that we might be a bit disappointed. This will only get worse when Villa win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Compare with Joe Cole to West ham, immediate impact. We've been not getting decent centre halves in for years. And keepers. And centre midfielders. Really hoping we get reinforcements but have that sense, honed over years, that we might be a bit disappointed. This will only get worse when Villa win. Yet there were still plenty on here who derided Joe Cole as a poor signing for West Ham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 5 January, 2013 Share Posted 5 January, 2013 Never played football manager so havnt got a clue about that but what I've outlined is just a simplistic version of what I think should happen. Once a fee has been agreed with the selling club then the only problems you have to overcome is with the player/agent so the actual buying bit is easy......to me,if the selling club mess about for more than 48hrs then move on. I do count a few ex pros as friends so I do have a bit of an insight into how these things play out and I think a lot of the problems come down to the length of the transfer window itself,a month is a long time in football and in that month players get unsettled,they are left out of the squad to protect them,they refuse to play etc etc and it causes problems for clubs and also discontent with fans so I would either make the window shorter or extend it for the whole year as it was before this would ensure business is done quicker with little disruption. selling clubs tend to hold out for better deals and other offers until the last few hours. If other clubs can do deals quickly then so could we but we never do......tbh we could of done a deal to keep puncheon quickly but that hasn't even happened. 0.5% of transfers would happen if anyone adopted that policy. Very few deals are clean cut and quickly concluded, that is why the last few days of every transfer window are bat**** mental as that is when people are forced to make decisions. For the calibre of player we need, there are very few clubs out there who would be in a position to accept an offer straight away without having to line someone up to replace them beforehand. If we had a great offer for an existing first team member who played for us we'd be mad to accept without first understanding who could replace them and then going through the process of learning if they were available etc. All of the transfers that have occurred at the start of this transfer windows have involved players unwanted / unneeded by their existing clubs. By and large those players aren't usually too much in demand and I would be far happier the club didn't panic sign and worked to sign the right player in the right deal for long term benefit. Saints have developed a big scouting network and the number of players they keep track on are staggering (as do all Premier League clubs). But there does have to be a very particular set of circumstances for a deal to happen. If we were to profile the sort of player the club are after with respect to spending decent money on them it could be broadly described as: 1. Best years ahead of them 2. Will retain value 3. Will grow with the club 4. Saints will be a step up for them (or at most a sideways step) so they retain hunger and ambition (and wages aren't too extravagant) 5. Must not have a greedy agent Then add on top of that the complexities of actually completing a deal even if the player was interested and met the criteria it is no wonder nothing happens too quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 6 January, 2013 Share Posted 6 January, 2013 0.5% of transfers would happen if anyone adopted that policy. Very few deals are clean cut and quickly concluded, that is why the last few days of every transfer window are bat**** mental as that is when people are forced to make decisions. For the calibre of player we need, there are very few clubs out there who would be in a position to accept an offer straight away without having to line someone up to replace them beforehand. If we had a great offer for an existing first team member who played for us we'd be mad to accept without first understanding who could replace them and then going through the process of learning if they were available etc. All of the transfers that have occurred at the start of this transfer windows have involved players unwanted / unneeded by their existing clubs. By and large those players aren't usually too much in demand and I would be far happier the club didn't panic sign and worked to sign the right player in the right deal for long term benefit. Saints have developed a big scouting network and the number of players they keep track on are staggering (as do all Premier League clubs). But there does have to be a very particular set of circumstances for a deal to happen. If we were to profile the sort of player the club are after with respect to spending decent money on them it could be broadly described as: 1. Best years ahead of them 2. Will retain value 3. Will grow with the club 4. Saints will be a step up for them (or at most a sideways step) so they retain hunger and ambition (and wages aren't too extravagant) 5. Must not have a greedy agent Then add on top of that the complexities of actually completing a deal even if the player was interested and met the criteria it is no wonder nothing happens too quickly. Oh come off it. Thats a load of cobblers that fits the facts. Bottom line is : money talks. We simply are unable or unwilling to match the big boys. This whole PL experiment is a house of cards because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 6 January, 2013 Share Posted 6 January, 2013 Oh come off it. Thats a load of cobblers that fits the facts. Bottom line is : money talks. We simply are unable or unwilling to match the big boys. This whole PL experiment is a house of cards because of it. It's not really a load of cobblers at all, it's exactly what happens all over the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 6 January, 2013 Share Posted 6 January, 2013 Oh come off it. Thats a load of cobblers that fits the facts. Bottom line is : money talks. We simply are unable or unwilling to match the big boys. This whole PL experiment is a house of cards because of it. In a nutshell you have it. We talk like the big boys but walk like the infants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 6 January, 2013 Share Posted 6 January, 2013 but walk like the infants. and keep falling over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambsaint Posted 6 January, 2013 Share Posted 6 January, 2013 We know that if we don't substantially strengthen our squad then it is probable that we will be relegated, as QPR under Redknapp certainly will, and our other competitors may. While I imagine that dealing with football agents is similar to swimming with crocodiles, they are regrettably not going to go away. We know that some of our rivals have considerable expertise in the transfer market. My concern is that we don't have the necessary knowledge or skills to compete in this market. I hope I'm proved wrong, particularly as rumour states that we have the resources and that NC is determined to stay in the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 6 January, 2013 Share Posted 6 January, 2013 We know that some of our rivals have considerable expertise in the transfer market. My concern is that we don't have the necessary knowledge or skills to compete in this market. I hope I'm proved wrong, particularly as rumour states that we have the resources and that NC is determined to stay in the Prem. wtf is that based on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 6 January, 2013 Share Posted 6 January, 2013 wtf is that based on? probably the fact that we haven't signed 10 new players by the 5th January I expect. It's pretty evident though that Saints don't like dealing with agents, many of our players seem to have been persuaded not to have an agent per se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cambsaint Posted 6 January, 2013 Share Posted 6 January, 2013 probably the fact that we haven't signed 10 new players by the 5th January I expect. It's pretty evident though that Saints don't like dealing with agents, many of our players seem to have been persuaded not to have an agent per se. Hardly the first part, I'm certainly not an impatient youngster, exactly the opposite in fact. I agree wholeheartedly regarding your second statement, but if you were a good footballer and quite reasonably wanting to earn as much as possible, wouldn't you want an agent to ensure that you got the best possible deal. Your skills are on the pitch not negotiating in the boardroom! It's simplistic and self-delusional to imagine that a club can avoid dealing with them in the Prem. Just think how we would feel if say QPR avoided relegation by successful transfer dealing and we didn't. I also consider that our summer dealings could have been better, which is also part of the basis for my worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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