LVSaint Posted 30 December, 2012 Share Posted 30 December, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza82 Posted 30 December, 2012 Share Posted 30 December, 2012 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2012/dec/30/russian-plane-crash-caught-camera-video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Windmill Posted 31 December, 2012 Share Posted 31 December, 2012 Why do so many people in Russia drive around with cameras on their dashboards? There are thousands of videos on Youtube and Liveleak etc where accidents are caught on these cameras. Does the Russian version of You've Been Framed pay particularly well for these videos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 31 December, 2012 Share Posted 31 December, 2012 Why do so many people in Russia drive around with cameras on their dashboards? There are thousands of videos on Youtube and Liveleak etc where accidents are caught on these cameras. Does the Russian version of You've Been Framed pay particularly well for these videos? It's part of their insurance requirements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 31 December, 2012 Share Posted 31 December, 2012 On the face of it looks like a right mess up by the pilots. Landing on snow is no big deal if R/W is long enough. I will say there was a recent crash in Siberia with a similar Tu 204 (Boeing 757 - 200 look alike) where the reversers and the brakes were supposed to have failed. Mind you brakes and icy R/W don't go together and reversers in a crosswind can cause weather cocking. I once landed a full Herald on a snow covered icy R/W at Jersey downhill and stopped easily. The atc asked what the braking was like and my reply was "I don't know I didn't use them". I just touched down on the very end of the R/W and let it roll. Amazing how quickly we stopped just with the props in ground fine pitch. The Tu 204 was empty so the approach speeds should have been pretty slow making it look like maybe they didn't get it down or maybe didn't deploy the spoilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 31 December, 2012 Share Posted 31 December, 2012 I'm amazed that the car that gets hit by the wheel manages to stay on the road and basically in control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 31 December, 2012 Share Posted 31 December, 2012 Vnukovo has a 3000m runway, which is plenty long enough to stop a Tu204 under normal conditions. Looking at that video it wasn't really snowing so the runway was also probably clear of any serious contamination. The aircraft went off the end at considerable speed too so it wasn't even close to stopping. My guess would be he either missed the touch down markers by about 1500m (incredibly unlikely) or some serious brake or spoiler failure which the pilots failed to go around from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSaint Posted 1 January, 2013 Author Share Posted 1 January, 2013 I once landed a full Herald on a snow covered icy R/W at Jersey downhill and stopped easily. Crikey, well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor_Saint Posted 1 January, 2013 Share Posted 1 January, 2013 Vnukovo has a 3000m runway, which is plenty long enough to stop a Tu204 under normal conditions. Looking at that video it wasn't really snowing so the runway was also probably clear of any serious contamination. The aircraft went off the end at considerable speed too so it wasn't even close to stopping. My guess would be he either missed the touch down markers by about 1500m (incredibly unlikely) or some serious brake or spoiler failure which the pilots failed to go around from. You're wasted in your job - brake failure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 1 January, 2013 Share Posted 1 January, 2013 Crikey, well done. Err I think Derry meant one of these :- HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 1 January, 2013 Share Posted 1 January, 2013 Err I think Derry meant one of these :- HTH. Thanks Ian, boy, did that bring back memories. I flew that aircraft a fair bit, we had twenty of them at one time. Noisy but so much nicer to fly than the Fokker F27. Last flew one early 1986 before moving on to the BAC 1-11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 1 January, 2013 Share Posted 1 January, 2013 Vnukovo has a 3000m runway, which is plenty long enough to stop a Tu204 under normal conditions. Looking at that video it wasn't really snowing so the runway was also probably clear of any serious contamination. The aircraft went off the end at considerable speed too so it wasn't even close to stopping. My guess would be he either missed the touch down markers by about 1500m (incredibly unlikely) or some serious brake or spoiler failure which the pilots failed to go around from. On most aircraft the auto deployment of spoilers have to be armed prior to landing. We had a 146 go off the end at ABZ with plenty of runway, just floated, pilots never twigged the spoilers weren't deployed. Manually just a simple pull on a lever if they don't deploy. I suspect not brake failure because of alternative and emergency brakes. We had an A320 where the brakes failed and the auto changeover failed due to corrosion. It was a temporary leased from Airbus waiting for new A320/321s so they picked up the bill. Pilots did well to stop it, nearly ended up in the sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 1 January, 2013 Share Posted 1 January, 2013 On most aircraft the auto deployment of spoilers have to be armed prior to landing. We had a 146 go off the end at ABZ with plenty of runway, just floated, pilots never twigged the spoilers weren't deployed. Manually just a simple pull on a lever if they don't deploy. I suspect not brake failure because of alternative and emergency brakes. We had an A320 where the brakes failed and the auto changeover failed due to corrosion. It was a temporary leased from Airbus waiting for new A320/321s so they picked up the bill. Pilots did well to stop it, nearly ended up in the sea. It is possible this accident is similar to the MD80 which crashed in Little Rock, Arkansas. The crew failed to arm the speed brake during the landing checks and failed to notice it hadn't deployed upon landing. That accident was largely attributed to stress, overload and fatigue however. The pilots were at the end of a long shift and trying to land in a severe thunderstorm in which weather conditions, including wind, were changing rapidly. It would take a high level of incompetance for that to happen in normal circumstances. Arming the speed brake is part of the landing checklist in most airlines and at least one of the pilots is supposed to confirm it has indeed deployed upon landing. I think we can rule out a reverse thrust problem too. On a 3000m uncontaminated runway it shouldn't be needed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 30 April, 2013 Share Posted 30 April, 2013 There's something that's both utterly fascinating, and at the same time very disturbing, about watching this type of awful footage. But if you don't mind this sort of thing then here's latest example of the caught on camera air crash: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 30 April, 2013 Share Posted 30 April, 2013 Bloody hell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSaint Posted 30 April, 2013 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2013 Incredible...... poor sods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 30 April, 2013 Share Posted 30 April, 2013 There's something that's both utterly fascinating, and at the same time very disturbing, about watching this type of awful footage. But if you don't mind this sort of thing then here's latest example of the caught on camera air crash: Weird sort of non reaction from the person / people filming it. The only sounds you hear is when someone in the vehicle steps on a dog. I know they were probably on the look out for some sort of Taliban attack, but even so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redondo Saint Posted 30 April, 2013 Share Posted 30 April, 2013 Terrible Centre of gravity loading could be the issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 30 April, 2013 Share Posted 30 April, 2013 A seemingly high nose-up attitude when the plane first comes into view, which gets even higher as the footage continues, before they drop a wing to drop the nose and try to pick up speed. Sadly, being so close to the ground there is no recovering. There is virtually no forward motion when it hits the ground. Only thing that is likely to put the nose up like that, IMO, is either the cargo coming loose and shifting back down the fuselage towards the tail, or a failure of the control surfaces. Other option, as always, is pilot error. Too much back stick forcing the stall perhaps, but that seems very unlikely. My money is on the loose cargo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 30 April, 2013 Share Posted 30 April, 2013 Terrible Centre of gravity loading could be the issue Well I'm no expert, but I suspect you may be right. I should add that as the Boeing 747 involved in this incident was a cargo version, there were only 8 people aboard at the time. No official word as yet on their fate, but it seems perfectly clear that this is a non survivable accident sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 30 April, 2013 Share Posted 30 April, 2013 Christ, watched it again out of morbid fascination... still chills me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 30 April, 2013 Share Posted 30 April, 2013 Why do so many people in Russia drive around with cameras on their dashboards? There are thousands of videos on Youtube and Liveleak etc where accidents are caught on these cameras. Does the Russian version of You've Been Framed pay particularly well for these videos? It's to protect them against corrupt police officers that stop them and say they drove way over the speed limit unless they pay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 30 April, 2013 Share Posted 30 April, 2013 It's to protect them against corrupt police officers that stop them and say they drove way over the speed limit unless they pay up. I have one too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSaint Posted 30 April, 2013 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2013 Looks as though the load master paid the ultimate price for his mistake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 30 April, 2013 Share Posted 30 April, 2013 Macabre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 1 May, 2013 Share Posted 1 May, 2013 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2317306/Kabul-plane-crash-Video-captures-moment-plane-dropped-sky-crashing.html More detail Killed in the crash were: pilots Brad Hasler of Trenton, Michigan, and Jeremy Lipka of Brooklyn, Michigan; First Officers First Officers Jamie Brokaw, of Monroe, Michigan, and Rinku Summan of Canton, Michigan; loadmaster Michael Sheets of Ypsilanti, Michigan; and maintenance crew Gary Stockdale of Romulus, Michigan and Timothy Garrett of Louisville, Kentucky. Thoughts with the families Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 1 May, 2013 Share Posted 1 May, 2013 A seemingly high nose-up attitude when the plane first comes into view, which gets even higher as the footage continues, before they drop a wing to drop the nose and try to pick up speed. Sadly, being so close to the ground there is no recovering. There is virtually no forward motion when it hits the ground. Only thing that is likely to put the nose up like that, IMO, is either the cargo coming loose and shifting back down the fuselage towards the tail, or a failure of the control surfaces. Other option, as always, is pilot error. Too much back stick forcing the stall perhaps, but that seems very unlikely. My money is on the loose cargo. Or an autopilot winding on full nose-up trim for some reason. Or the elevator trim incorrectly set full nose up prior to departure for some reason. There are far too many possibilities to speculate. The performance of a loaded 747 at 40 degree air temperatures would be marginal (if it was loaded and hot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 1 May, 2013 Share Posted 1 May, 2013 Or an autopilot winding on full nose-up trim for some reason. Or the elevator trim incorrectly set full nose up prior to departure for some reason. There are far too many possibilities to speculate. The performance of a loaded 747 at 40 degree air temperatures would be marginal (if it was loaded and hot). Yes of course, just my limited interpretation of the video and the fact that these guys will have accrued plenty of hours doing exactly this kind of flight during their careers... I believe their company has operated this route and others for some time so whilst it is perhaps wrong to speculate as to exact cause, I would suggest it is far less likely to be something that would be covered by a routine checklist item that this crew would've executed on every flight. Tragic nonetheless, thoughts with their families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 1 May, 2013 Share Posted 1 May, 2013 It's to protect them against corrupt police officers that stop them and say they drove way over the speed limit unless they pay up. Not sure its to battle corrupt police officers! You get a discount on your premium for having a dashcam, because it can help clear up any claim ambiguity, as the proof is there for all to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 1 May, 2013 Share Posted 1 May, 2013 Just a point to note. Back in the day many charter & freight airlines flew into Baghdad airport and, like at Bagram they had specific approach/descent & take-off protocols that are different from normal Airport operation. A fast spiralling descent within the confines of the airfield for approach & a fast pull up and turn inside the perimiter for takeoff. Main issue was for them to stay out of the range of RPG's. A mate of mine worked in Iraq and now works in Afghanistan & it "scares the beejuz out of me every time" is the polite description. At the moment HUGE amounts of kit are being repatriated out of Bagram as fast as possible with the "Obama Cuts" having made most of the big Logistics support operators pull out (KBR, Haliburton, Flour etc) While it is possible they had a load shift, it is also possible that they simply got their load/weights wrong, or were "pressured" into carrying as much as they could (there's Gold in them thar exit strategy deals at the moment) . Fast pull up and tight bank (stay out of RPG range) - seemed to be what they were trying to do in the clip Got it wrong somehow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 1 May, 2013 Share Posted 1 May, 2013 Sweet Jesus, those poor sods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 1 May, 2013 Share Posted 1 May, 2013 Yes, it looks like the plane was pulled into a stall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 1 May, 2013 Share Posted 1 May, 2013 Fast pull up and tight bank (stay out of RPG range) - seemed to be what they were trying to do in the clip Got it wrong somehow I very much doubt they deliberately pulled up that sharply and they weren't trying to bank tightly either. The wing drop would be purely down to the stall. The people in those vehicles are just lucky the right wing stalled first. If it had been the left wing which dropped, the plane could well have come down on top of them. I'd go along with the badly loaded or loose cargo theory for something like this. Stab trim runaway is possible but less likely. RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 1 May, 2013 Share Posted 1 May, 2013 I very much doubt they deliberately pulled up that sharply and they weren't trying to bank tightly either. The wing drop would be purely down to the stall. The people in those vehicles are just lucky the right wing stalled first. If it had been the left wing which dropped, the plane could well have come down on top of them. I'd go along with the badly loaded or loose cargo theory for something like this. Stab trim runaway is possible but less likely. RIP Not saying it was the only factor, but I remember from my PPL days that the moment the Stall warning goes off it is a motor function reaction to push the stick forward instantly. So the steep take off angle COULD have caused the load to shift in which case there would be no chance of recovery. OR it could have been a tech/set up error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 1 May, 2013 Share Posted 1 May, 2013 Not sure its to battle corrupt police officers! You get a discount on your premium for having a dashcam, because it can help clear up any claim ambiguity, as the proof is there for all to see. A few years back before these dashcams were common, I was on a coach in Moscow which had a minor collison with a BMW .... clearly the car driver's fault. There followed a very tense confrontation between frightened coach driver and agressive car driver, with the car driver obvously trying to get coach driver to accept the blame and/or pay up some cash there and then. As far as I could tell, it ended with both sides just driving away, with no pretence even of the car driver paying for the damage he'd caused , or giving insurance details. Our local guide was whispering about organised crime etc. Moscow in general felt as lawless as the Wild West... and even the 'honest' drivers drive like maniacs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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