Artur Boruc

[The9]

Having said I thought we might be getting rid of him earlier in the thread, was surprised to see him start.

 

Dodgy first couple of claims, not sure about fault for the og as I've only seen it once from the wrong end of the ground - and a few dubious kicks early on as well, but he grew into it and by the end was exuding arrogance - everything about his handling of the ball late on (especially the palming of the ball before distributing it) says he's an arrogant and superbly confident maverick, but his throws out were absolutely superb. If he can get his kicking more consistent and cut out the fumbles he made early on he's going to be the best of the three we currently have.

 

Let's face it, Nige knows goalkeeping.

[The9]

Yoshida? what's he got to do with it?

 

Yoshida was bloody awful for us for about his first 3/4 matches. He's now fully integrated into the defensive unit, because he was given time to settle into it. That's what he's got to do with it.

[The Kraken]

Yoshida was bloody awful for us for about his first 3/4 matches. He's now fully integrated into the defensive unit, because he was given time to settle into it. That's what he's got to do with it.

 

Not at centre-back he wasn't. I'd accept the Arsenal game and as I've said his forways at right back and left back, but at centre back he was instantly better than Hooiveld.

[Saint Charlie]

Having said I thought we might be getting rid of him earlier in the thread, was surprised to see him start.

 

Dodgy first couple of claims, not sure about fault for the og as I've only seen it once from the wrong end of the ground - and a few dubious kicks early on as well, but he grew into it and by the end was exuding arrogance - everything about his handling of the ball late on (especially the palming of the ball before distributing it) says he's an arrogant and superbly confident maverick, but his throws out were absolutely superb. If he can get his kicking more consistent and cut out the fumbles he made early on he's going to be the best of the three we currently have.

 

Let's face it, Nige knows goalkeeping.

 

Absolutely zero chance for the OG.

 

He is a weirdo maverick. When I watched MOTD last night you could see him muttering and twitching his face all the time.

[tajjuk]

Yoshida? what's he got to do with it? apart from when he played LB and RB he was an instant improvement on what we already had.

 

Are you really saying that, after it was identified by the coaching staff that Boruc had fitness issues and was put on a weight-loss programme (which he hasn't yet got close to the targets set) that he couldn't have done that since he arrived? That he could only do his fitness work in pre-season? That he couldn't have done extra fitness sessions in the past 3 months? Seems a strage sort of logic to me.

 

And yes, I'm making a decision on him after 3 games. Doesn't seem to different from your opinion of writing off Gazzaniga in favour of Boruc after you've only seen Boruc play 3 times and Gazzaniga single figures too :pointlessrollyeyething:

 

Many people were writing him off as not good enough after a handful of games, exactly what you are doing with Boruc.

 

Pre-season is important to all players fitness over the season, the work they do in July/August gets them though March/April. You can't do the same level of intensity during the season due to the midweek games, travelling, match preparation etc.

 

And as Nigel has said, he's been working hard in Training hence why he got a chance yesterday.

 

Also just because he's big doesn't equal unfit, people label Rooney as 'big', but he works as hard as anyone.

 

PG has had 8 games and not impressed in any, that's a fair few more than 3.

[The Kraken]

Many people were writing him off as not good enough after a handful of games, exactly what you are doing with Boruc.

 

Pre-season is important to all players fitness over the season, the work they do in July/August gets them though March/April. You can't do the same level of intensity during the season due to the midweek games, travelling, match preparation etc.

 

And as Nigel has said, he's been working hard in Training hence why he got a chance yesterday.

 

Also just because he's big doesn't equal unfit, people label Rooney as 'big', but he works as hard as anyone.

 

PG has had 8 games and not impressed in any, that's a fair few more than 3.

 

So you're making a decision that Boruc should play after 3 games (and not impressed in any of them) and that's acceptable, but deciding he shouldn't play after 3 games is unacceptable to do. Most strange. What's the number of games I can make a decision upon? Gazza has had 8 and you've written him off after those, is it 8 or less than that?

 

The rest of your ramble makes little sense. Boruc has for the most part not been travelling to games in midweek. Firstly because we've hardly played any midweek games, and secondly because he's barely been on the bench anyway so wouldn't have travelled in the first place. Since he's been here he's had more than enough time to sort his fitness out given his schedule, and there have been development squad games where NA could have played him if he thought his match sharpness was a problem.

Edited 2 January, 2013 by The Kraken

[Olallana]

So you're making a decision that Boruc should play after 3 games (and not impressed in any of them) and that's acceptable, but deciding he shouldn't play after 3 games is unacceptable to do. Most strange. What's the number of games I can make a decision upon? Gazza has had 8 and you've written him off after those, is it 8 or less than that?

 

The rest of your ramble makes little sense. Boruc has for the most part not been travelling to games in midweek. Firstly because we've hardly played any midweek games, and secondly because he's barely been on the bench anyway so wouldn't have travelled in the first place. Since he's been here he's had more than enough time to sort his fitness out given his schedule, and there have been development squad games where NA could have played him if he thought his match sharpness was a problem.

 

I think the big difference is that 8 games for Gazza is probably everything we have seen from him and he hasn´t been up to it judging by those games. I doubt that many of us has seen him play before he joined us.

 

With Boruc it is a situation, at least for me, that I have seen him play for many years before and know what he is able to do if you get him a run of games and I can assure you that THAT is much better than KD and gazza ever would be close to. He is in a perfect age for a GK and has been really good the last two years in Fiorentina.

 

And if you haven´t seen Boruc play before, get on youtube and watch some clips and you will see that he has never been a slimfit type of guy.

[The Kraken]

I think the big difference is that 8 games for Gazza is probably everything we have seen from him and he hasn´t been up to it judging by those games. I doubt that many of us has seen him play before he joined us.

 

With Boruc it is a situation, at least for me, that I have seen him play for many years before and know what he is able to do if you get him a run of games and I can assure you that THAT is much better than KD and gazza ever would be close to. He is in a perfect age for a GK and has been really good the last two years in Fiorentina.

 

And if you haven´t seen Boruc play before, get on youtube and watch some clips and you will see that he has never been a slimfit type of guy.

 

I've seen him play plenty of times for Celtic, so I'm more than aware of him. Which is why I've commented that the keeper we're seeing now is a shell of the player he was (and he is more overweight than he's ever been).

 

Boruc was the right type of signing; experienced, not too old. He just arrived miles out of shape and hasn't hit the ground running at all; I suspect due to the nature of his signing very little scouting was done, there simply wasn't the time. The booing/mocking by SFC fans was entirely stupid and unnecessary but it just adds to him being a bundle of nerves. And, as has been said, for him to still be out of shape at this stage of the season is unforgivable.

 

I don't see much difference in any of the three keepers we have now, none are noticeably better or worse than each other. Gazza should be kept and nurtured for the future, KD is IMO simply nowhere near good enough for the PL, and Boruc isn't doing it and doesn't look likely to IMO. Given that we're rumoured to be back in for Butland it suggests Adkins doesn't see Boruc as a long term choice either, so I think I'd be inclined to go with the manager for this one (although I'm unsure if Butland is the answer either). But Borucg being the (slightly) better option of the three we have now is not the same as him being the right choice for the rest of the season; it just shows the paucity of genuine options that we do have at this time.

Edited 2 January, 2013 by The Kraken

[tajjuk]

So you're making a decision that Boruc should play after 3 games (and not impressed in any of them) and that's acceptable, but deciding he shouldn't play after 3 games is unacceptable to do. Most strange. What's the number of games I can make a decision upon? Gazza has had 8 and you've written him off after those, is it 8 or less than that?

 

The rest of your ramble makes little sense. Boruc has for the most part not been travelling to games in midweek. Firstly because we've hardly played any midweek games, and secondly because he's barely been on the bench anyway so wouldn't have travelled in the first place. Since he's been here he's had more than enough time to sort his fitness out given his schedule, and there have been development squad games where NA could have played him if he thought his match sharpness was a problem.

 

I'm not making a decision based on 3 games, I'm merely not writing him off after 3 games, which is what you are doing, a HUGE difference.

 

He also has pedigree of performing well at the highest level, including last year. something neither of our other keepers have, Davis was a flop in the Premier League first time and has been again, Gazza looks very much the league 2 keeper he was last year. Boruc has regularly played top flight football, champions league football and international football. To write him off after what? a poor baptism of fire against West Ham, where the defence were even more shodddy, an ok game v Spurs where neither goal he could have done much about and were again down to poor defending and a slightly wobbly 20 minutes yesterday is plain stupidity.

 

Gazza got 8 games where he was dodgy in pretty much all of them, and cost us points. Boruc deserves at least that many games on reputation alone. Over the course of 90 minutes alone it looked like he regained his composure and confidence, given a run of games I think he will put all this talk of buying a keeper to bed.

[NickG]

I wonder if, we hadn't yet seen Boruc in a saint's shirt, and we had been only playing Gaza and KD, and were now linked to Boruc, sitting on the bench for Florentina - would people think he is the right type of experienced keeper for us?

 

Wonder if he is still seen as the experienced 1st choice for 12 months until Gaza, or Butland are ready?

 

Ten minutes in yesterday was desperate for us to sign a keeper..... Now reflecting whether he could be OK until Gazza takes over.

 

Reports of butland concern me that he is similar age and ability, possibly less reliable, than Gazza.

 

Not seen enough to personally judge

[The Kraken]

I'm not making a decision based on 3 games, I'm merely not writing him off after 3 games, which is what you are doing, a HUGE difference.

 

He also has pedigree of performing well at the highest level, including last year. something neither of our other keepers have, Davis was a flop in the Premier League first time and has been again, Gazza looks very much the league 2 keeper he was last year. Boruc has regularly played top flight football, champions league football and international football. To write him off after what? a poor baptism of fire against West Ham, where the defence were even more shodddy, an ok game v Spurs where neither goal he could have done much about and were again down to poor defending and a slightly wobbly 20 minutes yesterday is plain stupidity.

 

Incorrect. I'm saying he's not the right answer at this point in time. That he is well below par in terms of condition and shape than previously in his career. And that, at this point in time we may not have the time to stick with him in the hope that he regains his previous form. A HUGE difference.

 

Gazza got 8 games where he was dodgy in pretty much all of them, and cost us points. Boruc deserves at least that many games on reputation alone. Over the course of 90 minutes alone it looked like he regained his composure and confidence, given a run of games I think he will put all this talk of buying a keeper to bed.

If you got your way, we'd give Boruc his 8 games to see how he does. Then, if we decide that he's still not up to it, the transfer window is shut so its too late to make a decision. As said, the interest in Butland would suggest that the transfer committee may not see Boruc as the long term option. I agree with them, it seems as if you disagree with both them and me. So be it.

[Matthew Le Tissier]

What was he supposed to do, burst into tears?! Fúck me.

 

Chris Baird smoked and he won POTY for us before. As long as you keep your fitness levels up, what does it matter? And as for the drinking, he's Polish.

 

If I was the manager and my players thought it was funny when they made mistakes I wouldn't be very happy at all. He won't be around for long mark my words.

 

If you make a mistake that's fine, put your hand up gee yourself up and move on. At least act like you give a ****.

 

He's a idiot.

 

Just like me

[CanadaSaint]

Just looking back through this thread I'm hoping even more that we sign a quality keeper in the window.

 

If only to save us the complete forum meltdown that will occur if/when a Boruc error causes a loss instead of just heart flutters.

[The9]

Not at centre-back he wasn't. I'd accept the Arsenal game and as I've said his forways at right back and left back, but at centre back he was instantly better than Hooiveld.

 

No, he wasn't. He was an absolute liability for a good few weeks, I remember turning up for the Spurs match wondering if he'd still be in the team after the performances against Arsenal, West Ham and to a lesser degree Everton. And who were we playing when he made that massive balls-up with Gazzaniga ? He'd already played at least 3 times by then...

Edited 2 January, 2013 by The9

[The Kraken]

No, he wasn't. He was an absolute liability for a good few weeks.

 

Was he f*ck. Go back and read the match threads from his first few games. I read them earlier; hardly a cross word said about him when he played at centre back. At full back, yes and justifably so. Not at centre back (even the Arsenal game he attracted little negative comment).

 

Unless you can point out some other sources where, as you claim, he was written off by loads of fans?

 

Here we go. Arsenal post match reaction thread.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?40074-Arsenal-6-1-Saints-Post-Match-Reaction&highlight=arsenal+post+match

 

A thread started on Yoshida after his first full game against Villa.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?40187-Yoshida&highlight=yoshida

 

First comment: "I thought he was excellent today. Wont win everything in the air but very combatative and reads the game well. Very calm and composed, looks like he might be a class player for us."

 

And plenty of other similar comments. What a liability.

Edited 2 January, 2013 by The Kraken

[Lighthouse]

If you got your way, we'd give Boruc his 8 games to see how he does. Then, if we decide that he's still not up to it, the transfer window is shut so its too late to make a decision. As said, the interest in Butland would suggest that the transfer committee may not see Boruc as the long term option. I agree with them, it seems as if you disagree with both them and me. So be it.

 

I think we should let Kelvin try and find another club and try to replace him with someone decent, regardless of Boruc's form. His contract is up at the end of the season anyway and I would be pretty disappointed if he ended up being a regular for the rest of this season. If I were him I'd try and find an 18 month contract in the Championship somewhere because I doubt he will get an extension here.

[The Kraken]

I think we should let Kelvin try and find another club and try to replace him with someone decent, regardless of Boruc's form. His contract is up at the end of the season anyway and I would be pretty disappointed if he ended up being a regular for the rest of this season. If I were him I'd try and find an 18 month contract in the Championship somewhere because I doubt he will get an extension here.

 

Agreed. Kelvin has been a good servant but is not a Premier League keeper; and even if we go down would probably not be the answer for us in the Championship.

 

Its worth keeping Boruc as he's probably the better of the 3 we currently have. As I've said though I don't think that makes him the answer for the rest of the season, we need someone more reliable IMO.

[Mowgli]

Kelvin may well have reached the endof his playing career but his value to the coaching team would be immense.

[mafiboy27]

In Adkins we trust! Think Boruc looked better and better throughout the game v Arsenal. 1st choice for me. Don't mind Butland though

[Maggie May]

Stick with Boruc. If he'd been first choice since he signed, these goalkeeping threads would be irrelevant. I don't think the performances in his first two games were as bad as people are pointing out. We weren't the side we are now and with a settled, and improved, back four Boruc should thrive given a string of games. Butland is not the answer this season, maybe next year.

[The9]

Was he f*ck. Go back and read the match threads from his first few games. I read them earlier; hardly a cross word said about him when he played at centre back. At full back, yes and justifably so. Not at centre back (even the Arsenal game he attracted little negative comment).

 

Unless you can point out some other sources where, as you claim, he was written off by loads of fans?

 

Here we go. Arsenal post match reaction thread.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?40074-Arsenal-6-1-Saints-Post-Match-Reaction&highlight=arsenal+post+match

 

A thread started on Yoshida after his first full game against Villa.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?40187-Yoshida&highlight=yoshida

 

First comment: "I thought he was excellent today. Wont win everything in the air but very combatative and reads the game well. Very calm and composed, looks like he might be a class player for us."

 

And plenty of other similar comments. What a liability.

 

Good use of selective quoting there. What about the threads about Yoshida being a liability ? e.g. "If Yoshida isn't the answer..."

 

He was rubbish against Arsenal along with the rest and personally responsible getting spun for Gervinho's goal, along with Fonte not covering. Fine against Villa, other than the "massive mistake which almost led to us falling 2 behind" mentioned here : http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?40714-Yoshida-as-a-full-back&p=1505517#post1505517). And yes you can't judge him on the two matches out of position (when he was terrible), but he also cost us points with the backpass to Gazzaniga in a later match. So that's 4 matches early on when he was pants, no matter how much people wanted to say what a great player he was - and there was a lot of that based on nothing other than him winning some headers early on.

 

He does now look a lot more solid and to be honest it supports the people saying Fox getting caught upfield and a lack of defensive midfield were the problems, because he's still a shinner who slices simple passes into touch, he's just got fewer balls in behind him which he doesn't read making him look bad - though that was still happening even at QPR. Overall I think he's grown into it, but let's not pretend he came in as some kind of colossus, he looked inept on a few occasions and it's the other changes which have improved us far more.

Edited 3 January, 2013 by The9

[The Kraken]

Good use of selective quoting there. What about the threads about Yoshida being a liability ?

 

What is selective about it? You yourself said "Yoshida was bloody awful for us for about his first 3/4 matches". I just gave the match threads for his first 2 games. when he very clearly wasn't "bloody awful".

 

Which other threads should I look at? I didn't see those you mention, although I asked you to suggest some as I haven't read them.

 

Are you getting what my actual point was? That when he played full back he was pretty awful, but when he played centre back he was instantly better than what we have. I feel you've missed this from the start. But if there are threads in addition to the match threads (which typically said Yoshida did well) saying Yoshida is an absolute liability at centre back then I'll have a look at those if you can point them out to me please.

 

My view is that he was seen as instantly better at centre back than Jos. He played a ropey 3/4 of a game at RB against Fulham, and a bit of a shocker at LB against West Ham. Aside from that, his first game against Arsenal was well received, and as the thread I identified showed after the Villa game he was seen as a bit of a revelation. So, at centre back, not the "absolute liability" that you contend he was.

Edited 3 January, 2013 by The Kraken

[derry]

Kelvin may well have reached the endof his playing career but his value to the coaching team would be immense.

 

Yes, he could teach the goalkeepers not to catch crosses, stay on the line, bat the ball back out to the strikers, panic in possession and yell "away" that'll work.

[beatlesaint]

Yes, he could teach the goalkeepers not to catch crosses, stay on the line, bat the ball back out to the strikers, panic in possession and yell "away" that'll work.

 

You have forgotten his other weak spot which is letting in goals at his near post :-)

[ozzmeister]

Whats with all these random hyperlink to seemingly unlinked articles?

 

On topic, i think Boruc will come good, needs a bit of support but his record and experience speaks for itself. I think he's the kind of player that needs to feel 'loved' by the fans, and if he does will put in the performance.

 

Let him be the maverick we all love and other teams loath!

[The Kraken]

The weird thing is; I don't think Boruc is the answer but I'm thinking I'd actually prefer him to Butland. Gulp.

[Give it to Ron]

The weird thing is; I don't think Boruc is the answer but I'm thinking I'd actually prefer him to Butland. Gulp.

 

Me too....he is not what we need at all and as I have posted in the games I have seen him play - live and on TV he has looked worse than Gazza.

[Window Cleaner]

The weird thing is; I don't think Boruc is the answer but I'm thinking I'd actually prefer him to Butland. Gulp.

 

so would I, don't see much difference between Butland and Gazza myself. Just want to see where we are with Boruc after 5 or 6 more games . Pity that we've seen fit to only introduce him when the window is open.Then again NA's allegiance to KD is frightening. Wouldn't be at all surprised if it hasn't taken another good ass kicking from NC to make the change happen again. Don't hold with the Chairman interferring on team selection but when it gets out of hand and a player who's obviously not up to the job gets picked again and again maybe it's reasonable.

Edited 3 January, 2013 by Window Cleaner

[The9]

What is selective about it? You yourself said "Yoshida was bloody awful for us for about his first 3/4 matches". I just gave the match threads for his first 2 games. when he very clearly wasn't "bloody awful".

 

Which other threads should I look at? I didn't see those you mention, although I asked you to suggest some as I haven't read them.

 

Are you getting what my actual point was? That when he played full back he was pretty awful, but when he played centre back he was instantly better than what we have. I feel you've missed this from the start. But if there are threads in addition to the match threads (which typically said Yoshida did well) saying Yoshida is an absolute liability at centre back then I'll have a look at those if you can point them out to me please.

 

My view is that he was seen as instantly better at centre back than Jos. He played a ropey 3/4 of a game at RB against Fulham, and a bit of a shocker at LB against West Ham. Aside from that, his first game against Arsenal was well received, and as the thread I identified showed after the Villa game he was seen as a bit of a revelation. So, at centre back, not the "absolute liability" that you contend he was.

 

And as I identified, we had a lot of people ready to overlook all of his awful passes off the pitch and us conceding 6, as well as nearly giving away a critical goal against Villa. I thought it was the Fulham match he played that awful backpass in as well ? He did that from a CB position.

 

Anyway, the point, which is that people shouldn't write players off based on a few mistakes in their first few games, is valid whether either of us think he was crap or not.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

If we're not signing a keeper I can only assume that Boruc is intended to be number 1 and would have been playing for a couple of months if it wasn't for the bottle incident.

[Appy]

Let's get behind him, none of that ironic cheering b0llocks from Tuesday.

[jayrivers]

If we're not signing a keeper I can only assume that Boruc is intended to be number 1 and would have been playing for a couple of months if it wasn't for the bottle incident.

 

That is the assumption I am making

[St Chalet]

@SimonPeach: Nigel Adkins has confirmed #SaintsFC will NOT be bringing in a new goalkeeper this month.

 

Looks like Boruc it is.

[Window Cleaner]

@SimonPeach: Nigel Adkins has confirmed #SaintsFC will NOT be bringing in a new goalkeeper this month.

 

Looks like Boruc it is.

 

 

Unless he can find a reason to bring back his binky Davis.

[Crab Lungs]

Let's get behind him, none of that ironic cheering b0llocks from Tuesday.

 

Unfortunately, unless he plays a couple of blinders immediately, I think they'll be on his back irrespective.

[Saint Charlie]

Hopefully Boruc will play well at the weekend and then not look back.

[jjsaint]

Boruc seems a bit of an odd duck. I wouldn't be surprised if he does something really, really stupid this season.

My heart says Davis but my head says Christ no.

Not especially impressed with Gazzaniga.

 

If we do sign a new keeper, I hope he's miles better than what we have at the moment. We can't afford yet another gamble.

[norwaysaint]

So far the one that's looked the best to me has been Gazza, but they've all been ****ing up, so it's not saying much. Whichever one manages to be consistent during their turn will be the one then. That puts it all in Boruc's hands now. Let's hope he can hold onto it.

[The9]

I think Nige has played a blinder, bringing Boruc back has pushed Guly starting his first home game in months completely off the idiots' radar.

[JackFrost]

If it's a straight choice between Boruc and butland on current form I'd have Boruc.

 

We need experience in goal and I really hope Boruc will now cement the number one jersey with ease. Very poor in his first two games and no different in the first 10-15 mins against Arsenal. But fair play he looked very comfortable from then on and has the potential to be miles better than what we've had this season so far.

[derry]

Gazzaniga has an injury at the moment so was only replaced by Davis as a necessity, now replaced by Boruc the only alternative left. I still think that unless Boruc produces the class (not much evidence yet) he is supposed to possess, Gazzaniga will be back in as soon as he is fit. I just think he is Adkin's first choice unless Boruc changes things with outstanding performances. I will be delighted if he is outstanding.

[Thedelldays]

gazza is not injured is he...?

just no where near the first team for league games it seems....

 

 

 

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php

Edited 3 January, 2013 by Thedelldays

[Appy]

Gazzaniga isn't injured, Adkins confirmed this in his presser.

[derry]

Gazzaniga isn't injured, Adkins confirmed this in his presser.

 

He was definitely injured on Tuesday. From a senior player.

[Appy]

He was definitely injured on Tuesday. From a senior player.

 

Thank god.

[david in sweden]

@SimonPeach: Nigel Adkins has confirmed #SaintsFC will NOT be bringing in a new goalkeeper this month. Looks like Boruc it is.

 

well I hope he's got that one right ......anyway I agree...Boruc is clearly the best choice of the three that we have...

[Window Cleaner]

Gazzaniga isn't injured, Adkins confirmed this in his presser.

 

Gazzaniga was training with the other 2 in this week's video footage. Perhaps he has an injury that stops him from playing matches

[Thedelldays]

Gazzaniga was training with the other 2 in this week's video footage. Perhaps he has an injury that stops him from playing matches

or perhaps...as adkins say, he is just not injured

[derry]

or perhaps...as adkins say, he is just not injured

 

I thought he was fit and was surprised to be told he wasn't fit when I got to the ground on Tuesday. Maybe not allowed to play as not completely healed. I don't know what sort of shoulder injury it is.

[aintforever]

@SimonPeach: Nigel Adkins has confirmed #SaintsFC will NOT be bringing in a new goalkeeper this month.

 

Looks like Boruc it is.

 

I'm not convinced that is the right decision - I would bring someone in if I was Adkins.

 

If it is the case then it's Boruc or bust because the other two wouldn't keep us up IMO. Hopefully Boruc's mistakes are just down to him being a bit rusty and he proves to be a decent keeper. He didn't have much to do against Arsenal, should be able to judge him better on Saturday.