Thedelldays Posted 30 December, 2012 Posted 30 December, 2012 Butland is not what we need. We need a confident, experienced goalkeeper. seeing as friedel is staying spurs...to come in and do a job..who is probably available and for a decent fee paul robinson now watch people say "no, not what we need"
Turkish Posted 30 December, 2012 Posted 30 December, 2012 seeing as friedel is staying spurs...to come in and do a job..who is probably available and for a decent fee paul robinson now watch people say "no, not what we need" He is significantly better than we have.
dubai_phil Posted 30 December, 2012 Posted 30 December, 2012 He is significantly better than we have. And has been reported as playing very well in a poor Blackburn team
CaneNero Posted 30 December, 2012 Posted 30 December, 2012 I want to see him again now that he's had a chance to bond with the team, on paper he is our best keeper and should live up to what we desperately need this season
Lord Duckhunter Posted 30 December, 2012 Posted 30 December, 2012 Neville southall was a pretty decent keeper but nobody could ever accuse him of being a finely tuned athlete. Get the pole in nets or get a loan in during the window, there's plenty of keepers sitting on premiership benches better than Kelvin or Gaza
washsaint Posted 30 December, 2012 Posted 30 December, 2012 Jeez.....Boruc MAY have been good at one point in his career but he sure as hell isn't now. If this is the 'best GK' then why was he without a club for so long after not being retained by Fiorentina? And why did they not keep him. He's done and I trust Adkin's judgement far more than anyone on here.
saintstr1 Posted 30 December, 2012 Posted 30 December, 2012 Boruc should be in against Arsenal , He is a big game player and his experience would be needed against the gooners, Kelvin is a liability these days and is probably having sleepless nights just thinking about Arsenal and Gazza is not yet experienced enough for this sort of game. Boruc will perform in a game like this in front of the cameras. Quite honestly if we dont play him I cant see us getting anything so it is worth the gamble IMO.
Lord Duckhunter Posted 30 December, 2012 Posted 30 December, 2012 Jeez..... I trust Adkin's judgement far more than anyone on here. it would be a pretty boring forum if we just agreed with all the managers teams,tactics and signings
david in sweden Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 Why is Boruc not been in the first team... Finally, I don't believe his lack of games is just down to the Tottenham 'incident'. It must be something else. If it is only down to this incident, then I think it is confusing the management are costing us points with their decisions over a complaint from a few pathetic fans who can't take a show of passion or aggression from one of the players. That is just what we need to drag ourselves out of the relegation scrap in my opinion. If there isn't some sort of unspoken disciplinary measure here. I can only assume it means that NA still hasn't given up on KD and Gazzaniga.after all they are on contracts, and Boruc is only a loan. Personally, I'd play Boruc ......KD has a very limited future....and Gazzaniga great potential ....but he's not PL yet, by quite a way.IMO
derry Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 I believe Adkins rates Gazzaniga above the others from his recent remarks about how highly he rates him. Davis seems to have been given a final chance after Gazzaniga injured his shoulder, but has made more mistakes than saves. Nobody knows how he rates Boruc because he has never discussed him, but Davis warts and all was preferred to him. I think if he isn't in v Arsenal he is just a backup. Adkins may well bring back Gazzaniga who has played better than the other two for the club. Boruc was described by the Sky commentators at WHU as being nervous, having a bad day at the office, indecisive and glad when it's over. Against Spurs he wasn't impressive and in his game for the U21s v MU didn't show the class being claimed on here. The PL records show Davis conceded 19 in 8, Boruc 6 in 2 and Gazzaniga 12 in 9. I personally prefer Gazzaniga.
Thedelldays Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 (edited) I believe Adkins rates Gazzaniga above the others from his recent remarks about how highly he rates him. Davis seems to have been given a final chance after Gazzaniga injured his shoulder, but has made more mistakes than saves. Nobody knows how he rates Boruc because he has never discussed him, but Davis warts and all was preferred to him. I think if he isn't in v Arsenal he is just a backup. Adkins may well bring back Gazzaniga who has played better than the other two for the club. Boruc was described by the Sky commentators at WHU as being nervous, having a bad day at the office, indecisive and glad when it's over. Against Spurs he wasn't impressive and in his game for the U21s v MU didn't show the class being claimed on here. The PL records show Davis conceded 19 in 8, Boruc 6 in 2 and Gazzaniga 12 in 9. I personally prefer Gazzaniga. is gazza fit again...? i thought he was...if he was or when he is..if adkins rates him so much..surely he will be on the bench/in the team.. he is no where at the mo (thank god imo) Edited 31 December, 2012 by Thedelldays
derry Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 is gazza fit again...? i thought he was...if he was or when he is..if adkins rates him so much..surely he will be on the bench/in the team.. he is no where at the mo (thank god imo) I welcomed Boruc's signing, I just couldn't believe his performance v MU, then his poor display v WHU and not much better v Spurs. If you think he is the answer on what we've seen to date, we will see him in v Arsenal. I hope he is and plays well, if he isn't he won't play much. I think Adkins may well bring back Gazzaniga, he has by far the best record this season.
Thedelldays Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 I welcomed Boruc's signing, I just couldn't believe his performance v MU, then his poor display v WHU and not much better v Spurs. If you think he is the answer on what we've seen to date, we will see him in v Arsenal. I hope he is and plays well, if he isn't he won't play much. I think Adkins may well bring back Gazzaniga, he has by far the best record this season. gazza has also played against the worst sides in the league we have faced..and still made the biggest cock ups of the season.. its all a bit of a mess really
skintsaint Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 He's an embarrassment. why? admittingly i only watched the Spurs game and he didn't do anything wrong in that, in fact done a cracking save in the first min or two to keep Lennon out.
Turkish Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 It's quite a pathetic situation that we have 3 goal keepers, 2 of which are new signings and not one of them is reliable or an automatic choice. It's shambles.
Sour Mash Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 Out of the three 'keepers, Boruc has looked the best so far in the little we've seen of him. I can only assume there is a discipline/attitude/training issue that has stopped him continuing as first choice.
Chez Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 (edited) Gazza might be the most highly rated by Adkins and he certainly has excellent reactions and shot stopping ability if the Newcastle save is anything to go by, but he HAD to be taken out of the side when he did as he'd completely lost all confidence. The schoolboy wall organising and handling error was bad enough, but from that moment on he was routed to his line and didn't know what he was doing. His kicking selection was terrible, he came for nothing, he didn't even come to the edge of his area to collect over-hit passes, He needs time to get his confidence back, perhaps even a spell out on loan, as he simply can not be trusted right now. If he comes back it needs to be after serious repairs to his mental state. Boruc looked slow off his line against Spurs (I know that is debatable, but that's my opinion) and he may have come off his line for the first West Ham goal, but that's debatable even in my own mind. I thought his kicking was poor that day. He didn't **** up but he just hacked at things and didn't get his body in the right position. The ball went anywhere. That said, I'm not sure any of these things are reasons to drop him so it has to be the bottle/fans incident, which is crazy. I wonder what his fitness is like. He has always been a big fella so it's hard to tell. Davis hasn't been quite nearly as bad as some suggest since he returned. Compared to Gazza he has looked much more assured and the defence have benefited from that. His kicking selections have been spot on, something that could not be said about Gazza (who had lost the plot by the Norwich game) but his reactions are certainly not as sharp as they once were. He still comes, gets blocked off and flaps, but at least he comes. He has swept brilliantly behind the back four, something that can't be said of the other two. That is all forgotten though as soon as he spills something. I thought the Fulham `error' wasn't even the worst mistake in that goal and I feel the second goal at Stoke wasn't a mistake at all (again my opinion). He did flap at times, but I've seen pretty much every keeper do the same against SToke. Keepers come for things there that they wouldn't normally because defenders are being beaten by Jones/Crouch/Huth etc. I think he'll retain the jersey. Edited 31 December, 2012 by Chez
Chez Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 It's quite a pathetic situation that we have 3 goal keepers, 2 of which are new signings and not one of them is reliable or an automatic choice. It's shambles. sure is. What's the way out?
Turkish Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 (edited) sure is. What's the way out? sour Mash is right in as much of the three goal custodians we've played this season Boruc is the best bet. Whatever issue is preventing his from playing needs to be resolved, it cant be that bad as he is still here and not been paid up/sacked/Puncheoned. Either use him or lose him or bring another glovesman in. It's clear Davis and Gazza (at the moment) aren't the answer. Edited 31 December, 2012 by Turkish
Patrick Bateman Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 Gazza might be the most highly rated by Adkins and he certainly has excellent reactions and shot stopping ability if the Newcastle save is anything to go by, but he HAD to be taken out of the side when he did as he'd completely lost all confidence. The schoolboy wall organising and handling error was bad enough, but from that moment on he was routed to his line and didn't know what he was doing. His kicking selection was terrible, he came for nothing, he didn't even come to the edge of his area to collect over-hit passes, He needs time to get his confidence back, perhaps even a spell out on loan, as he simply can not be trusted right now. If he comes back it needs to be after serious repairs to his mental state. Boruc looked slow off his line against Spurs (I know that is debatable, but that's my opinion) and he may have come off his line for the first West Ham goal, but that's debatable even in my own mind. I thought his kicking was poor that day. He didn't **** up but he just hacked at things and didn't get his body in the right position. The ball went anywhere. That said, I'm not sure any of these things are reasons to drop him so it has to be the bottle/fans incident, which is crazy. I wonder what his fitness is like. He has always been a big fella so it's hard to tell. Davis hasn't been quite nearly as bad as some suggest since he returned. Compared to Gazza he has looked much more assured and the defence have benefited from that. His kicking selections have been spot on, something that could not be said about Gazza (who had lost the plot by the Norwich game) but his reactions are certainly not as sharp as they once were. He still comes, gets blocked off and flaps, but at least he comes. He has swept brilliantly behind the back four, something that can't be said of the other two. That is all forgotten though as soon as he spills something. I thought the Fulham `error' wasn't even the worst mistake in that goal and I feel the second goal at Stoke wasn't a mistake at all (again my opinion). He did flap at times, but I've seen pretty much every keeper do the same against SToke. Keepers come for things there that they wouldn't normally because defenders are being beaten by Jones/Crouch/Huth etc. I think he'll retain the jersey. Fantastic summary! It is a shame that we have 3 "good" goalies, but not one outstanding one. Having said that, I think Boruc still has a role to play - if he doesn't, we need to move him on and get a replacement in for the rest of the season. Would love Friedel on loan, but that won't happen.
St_Tel49 Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 Butland is not what we need. We need a confident, experienced goalkeeper. I agree with Turkish - I must go and lie down. Friedel on loan anyone?
JibMcdo Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 The last 30 minutes was the final nail in Davis' coffin. His save off of Crouch's header was absolutely farcical what the hell was he doing parrying it in to the goal area he could have stood there and caught the thing. Surely it's time for the keeper we have who was one of the highest rated in the world only two or three years ago and give him the time the other two have been given.
Window Cleaner Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 The last 30 minutes was the final nail in Davis' coffin. I wouldn't count on that.
kpturner Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 I agree with Turkish - I must go and lie down. Friedel on loan anyone? How is that going to happen when he has just signed a new deal with Spurs? I cannot see them giving him a deal at his age if they were prepared to ship him out on loan.
Restark19 Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 Personally i've always wanted to see Kelv given another chance in goal, unfortunately i think we've seen that he's not good enough. Imo from now on we either need to play Boruc or (preferably) bring in someone like Robinson/Friedel.
Window Cleaner Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 How is that going to happen when he has just signed a new deal with Spurs? I cannot see them giving him a deal at his age if they were prepared to ship him out on loan. Spurs need him anyway at least for the Cup and the Europa League. Lloris sometimes has off spells as well.
Crab Lungs Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 I've let the whole Boruc issue ride for months but now it is grating with me. He is a very good, international class keeper and he simply has to be play. We can afford no more experiments (Gazzaniga) or back-to-the-future selections (Davis). We've already seen us drop points because of goalkeeping foul-up's and it'll be f()cking grating if that's a huge contributory factor to being relegated. This situation isn't a difficult one to work out... play the best man for the job and that's Boruc. It's not a head scratcher and it doesn't warrant multiple pages IMO. Our fans have been superb this year but they need to get over the whole bottle-throwing incident and stop lamenting our own players, especially on their home debut.
ottery st mary Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 I've let the whole Boruc issue ride for months but now it is grating with me. He is a very good, international class keeper and he simply has to be play. We can afford no more experiments (Gazzaniga) or back-to-the-future selections (Davis). We've already seen us drop points because of goalkeeping foul-up's and it'll be f()cking grating if that's a huge contributory factor to being relegated. This situation isn't a difficult one to work out... play the best man for the job and that's Boruc. It's not a head scratcher and it doesn't warrant multiple pages IMO. Our fans have been superb this year but they need to get over the whole bottle-throwing incident and stop lamenting our own players, especially on their home debut. Totally agree with you.... It has driven me up the pole without a Saints flag;) Boruc in for me:) Saints to win 3-1 or 3-2
Crab Lungs Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 Totally agree with you.... It has driven me up the pole without a Saints flag;) Boruc in for me:) Saints to win 3-1 or 3-2 Fingers doubled crossed!!!
Crazy Diamond Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 why? admittingly i only watched the Spurs game and he didn't do anything wrong in that, in fact done a cracking save in the first min or two to keep Lennon out. Oh dear. Did you even read that post properly? Twonk. Blimey, an amazing array of opinions here, and hardly any of them based in fact! He was never wanted here. Nigel doesn't like him. He's an embarrassment. Christ, imagine if we had fans on the board. We'd be in the Wessex Premier with AFC Skates.
Window Cleaner Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 I've let the whole Boruc issue ride for months but now it is grating with me. He is a very good, international class keeper and he simply has to be play. We can afford no more experiments (Gazzaniga) or back-to-the-future selections (Davis). We've already seen us drop points because of goalkeeping foul-up's and it'll be f()cking grating if that's a huge contributory factor to being relegated. This situation isn't a difficult one to work out... play the best man for the job and that's Boruc. It's not a head scratcher and it doesn't warrant multiple pages IMO. Our fans have been superb this year but they need to get over the whole bottle-throwing incident and stop lamenting our own players, especially on their home debut. Davis is evidently Nigel's first choice keeper, if he persists and it costs us points again and again it will cost eventually him his job.
St Chalet Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 Boruc has to start tomorrow, if not he might as well leave.
Window Cleaner Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 Boruc has to start tomorrow, if not he might as well leave. which he no doubt will do when a juicy MLS contract comes along having re-established some sort of fitness with us.
St Chalet Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 Interesting to recall how excited we were when he joined! http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?40169-Artur-Boruc-signs-Official&highlight=Artur+Boruc+signs
Golac's Iron Gonads Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 I hope Boruc does play so we can see exactly how bloody wonderful he is, a lot of you must avidly follow the fortunes of Fiorentina and the Polish national team because, to me in the 2 Saints games I've seen him play, he's looked no better than what we've got. I feel it'll go the same way as Davis, there was plenty of clamour on here for Kelvin to be given another shot in goal, and that went really well! People seemed to suffer early season amnesia, because he was bad then and he was bad when he came back. I don't expect Boruc to be any better than he was against WHU and Spurs. Gazzaniga if he's fit, and in January get some experience in. If Gazzaniga's still injured play the Pole and let me enjoy seeing a 'seasoned, experienced, international' one last time.
krissyboy31 Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 I agree with Turkish - I must go and lie down. Friedel on loan anyone? Friedel just signed a new contact and Cudicini is off to MLS.
Saint Fan CaM Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 Robinson - all the way. Gazza for the future. Ship out Boruc - hardly a role model like KD.
Thedelldays Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 Robinson - all the way. Gazza for the future. Ship out Boruc - hardly a role model like KD. Why isn't he a role model Remember when kelv told a load of saints fans to f-off at a game once when they were on his back
Saint Fan CaM Posted 31 December, 2012 Posted 31 December, 2012 Why isn't he a role model Remember when kelv told a load of saints fans to f-off at a game once when they were on his back No. And even if he did (they deserved it not supporting their own players), it didn't seem to harm his chances getting Club Captain position did it? Proof enough for me. Boruc has not fitted in despite his credentials - free up the wage bill and get someone in who gives a damn.
david in sweden Posted 1 January, 2013 Posted 1 January, 2013 What's Shay Given up to these days? Aston Villa's bench?.......If they're not playing him as first choice at the moment , it must say something about his form..
Cabrone Posted 1 January, 2013 Posted 1 January, 2013 I've let the whole Boruc issue ride for months but now it is grating with me. He is a very good, international class keeper and he simply has to be play. We can afford no more experiments (Gazzaniga) or back-to-the-future selections (Davis). We've already seen us drop points because of goalkeeping foul-up's and it'll be f()cking grating if that's a huge contributory factor to being relegated. This situation isn't a difficult one to work out... play the best man for the job and that's Boruc. It's not a head scratcher and it doesn't warrant multiple pages IMO. Our fans have been superb this year but they need to get over the whole bottle-throwing incident and stop lamenting our own players, especially on their home debut. Couldn't agree with you more, this whole GK situation is utterly bizarre. Boruc is our best GK yet for some strange reason he isn't getting any games. Gazza and KD can't seem to take advantage so we seem to be in eternal GK limbo land. If we aren't going to play the Pole then let him go and get a top quality keeper that we will play. GK was my top priority at the start of the season and is still my top priority now. With a decent guy between the sticks we would be 6-8 points better off and comfortable mid table now. Sort it out please.
The9 Posted 1 January, 2013 Posted 1 January, 2013 Why is Boruc not been in the first team since his arrival? This is a goalkeeper who was a regular in Serie A last season, has vast international experience with 46 caps for Poland and experience playing in the Champions League. I don't agree with the argument that he is 'overweight' or fat. He has a big build and this has always been part of why he has been so good for the team's he has played for. At 6'4", his frame is very imposing and this helps his dominate his area. I feel he would have made a huge difference against Stoke's direct threat yesterday. Finally, I don't believe his lack of games is just down to the Tottenham 'incident'. It must be something else. If it is only down to this incident, then I think it is confusing the management are costing us points with their decisions over a complaint from a few pathetic fans who can't take a show of passion or aggression from one of the players. That is just what we need to drag ourselves out of the relegation scrap in my opinion. To be honest I think he underperformed against West Ham with his kicking which put Adkins on watch for mistakes from someone he was expecting to be a significant improvement, then marked his card with the Spurs incident (overblown though it has been) and I'd be surprised now if he wasn't already looking at being moved on by the club. Heard a few stories about his disruptive nature from Celtic, and they're not the kind of players we tend to keep around. I don't think he's fat either, fwiw.
Bucks Saint Posted 1 January, 2013 Posted 1 January, 2013 Aston Villa's bench?.......If they're not playing him as first choice at the moment , it must say something about his form.. Daren Bent is not playing. Why leave someone of his proven quality out when you are struggling? Financial reasons methinks, which may explain Given
The9 Posted 1 January, 2013 Posted 1 January, 2013 Aston Villa's bench?.......If they're not playing him as first choice at the moment , it must say something about his form.. Guzan has been superb in the last 3 matches for Villa, including the one they conceded 8 against Chelsea, and he got his chance because Given made a few mistakes in the first couple of matches following an unspectacular Euros not saving things for Ireland. I actually think the Gary Speed stuff might have knocked the stuffing out of his will to play and he's not necessarily going to want to get another contract with anyone.
Saint Stimp Posted 1 January, 2013 Posted 1 January, 2013 Maybe we should have signed Craig Gordon instead..
Mowgli Posted 1 January, 2013 Posted 1 January, 2013 Robinson - all the way. Gazza for the future. Ship out Boruc - hardly a role model like KD. Selective memory loss or subtle sarcasm?
BotleySaint Posted 1 January, 2013 Posted 1 January, 2013 Maybe we should have signed Craig Gordon instead.. Well, I think he's still out of contract? Odd really..
Window Cleaner Posted 1 January, 2013 Posted 1 January, 2013 Selective memory loss or subtle sarcasm? you can see why some might consider KD as a role model for Gazza though, he's already making the same kind of f*cks up.
melmacian_saint Posted 1 January, 2013 Posted 1 January, 2013 Maybe we should have signed Craig Gordon instead.. If Boruc's fitness was a state and has only been out for 2 months I can't imagine Craig Gordon who has 2 matches in almost 2 years or something like that....
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