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Davide Astori Southampton target?


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Other clubs managed to strengthen the areas that desperately needed strengthening OK. We spent a hell of a lot on two or three players (two of which aren't starters) yet failed to further strengthen where we needed to. I mean how vital was Rodriguez when we had the likes of the LM position and CB under strength (thank goodness we haven't had any real injuries to fonte and Yoshida.)

 

Agreed. An injury to Fonte or Yoshida could be fatal if we don't strengthen now. I am surprised how out of his depth Jos has looked this season because I thought he would be the one to step up. Fonte and Yoshida are becoming a good pair.

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If we had signed a back up left midfielder instead of Jay Rod you would have been the first moaning about our lack of depth up front and the fact we spuked millions on a back up to Lallana who is always a sub.

 

Fact is - all teams try to strengthen and some do better than others. A lot of teams fared worse than us in the transfer market this summer! QPR, Reading, Villa, Liverpool, Newcastle, Fulham to name a few.

 

Fact is- we had the entire summer and actually January as well to strengthen properly. We had a greater urgency to strengthen than the majority of clubs you mention due to us being newly promoted. There is no doubt that our failure to strengthen properly in the summer has had a big impact this year and could mean that we get relegated. Nixon saying we didn't know which defenders we wanted in the summer was of particular concern. With regards to your first comment, please don't put words in my mouth or assume you know what I would comment on.

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Agreed. An injury to Fonte or Yoshida could be fatal if we don't strengthen now. I am surprised how out of his depth Jos has looked this season because I thought he would be the one to step up. Fonte and Yoshida are becoming a good pair.

 

An injury would be fatal if we don't strengthen? Absolutely.

 

Will we strengthen? Yes

 

Anything to worry about? No

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Rodriguez is an important player for us, take him out of the equation and our striker options are not that great.

 

I still don't get why people assume signing X means we didn't prioritise other positions. As with everyone else, we are successful with some targets, unsuccessful with others but it doesn't mean that we sign players at the expense of other positions. We obviously have a very particular transfer policy and won't sign players unless they are thr right type, age, mentality and improve what we have.

 

This sums it up for me. I feel all the people moaning now would also have been the first to moan if we signed players that didn't improve what we have. I remember only a few weeks ago some people saying that yoshida was a waste and pointless signing and where is Aaron Martin!

 

The player has to fit with the team, want to be here, and improve what we have. For players like Rodriguez he's obviously for the future, but I don't think any of the players we signed were at the expense of signing someone else. Some deals just don't happen for whatever reason. Look at Buttner deal falling through. Also I don't want to end up like QPR signing everyone at over-inflated prices and high wages!

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Rodriguez is an important player for us, take him out of the equation and our striker options are not that great.

 

I still don't get why people assume signing X means we didn't prioritise other positions. As with everyone else, we are successful with some targets, unsuccessful with others but it doesn't mean that we sign players at the expense of other positions. We obviously have a very particular transfer policy and won't sign players unless they are thr right type, age, mentality and improve what we have.

 

We obviously put a hell of a lot of time and effort into signing Ramirez who is a good player. I do think we should have put more time and effort into getting soe more players that we desperately needed. Of course we can never say for sure that concentrating on one deal means we didn't get others over the line, but even if that were not the case, I think we should have had some contingency plans in place if we had not got our first choices.

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Fact is- we had the entire summer and actually January as well to strengthen properly. We had a greater urgency to strengthen than the majority of clubs you mention due to us being newly promoted. There is no doubt that our failure to strengthen properly in the summer has had a big impact this year and could mean that we get relegated. Nixon saying we didn't know which defenders we wanted in the summer was of particular concern. With regards to your first comment, please don't put words in my mouth or assume you know what I would comment on.

 

Regarding the GK situation I agree, but how so other areas? We have a strong midfield, a decent CB pairing (we need to strengthen there granted) and a forward line which scores goals. Other than getting Yoshida in a little earlier, not sure that our summer transfer policy is as dire as people make out. Ramirez, Clyne, Yoshida, Davis all have impoved us and Rodriguez is starting to look quality. Compare to Villa, Newcastle, Reading, we have done well to strengthen our squad sufficiently.

Edited by Dig Dig
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We obviously put a hell of a lot of time and effort into signing Ramirez who is a good player. I do think we should have put more time and effort into getting soe more players that we desperately needed. Of course we can never say for sure that concentrating on one deal means we didn't get others over the line, but even if that were not the case, I think we should have had some contingency plans in place if we had not got our first choices.

 

Lets face it. You know absolutely nothing about the effort we went to to sign anyone, who other targets were, reasons they didn't come off, offers we made, offers we rejected for our own players etc.

 

Nobody does. Apart from the small proportion reported in the media.

 

To say things like "I do think we should have put more time and effort into getting some more players we desprately needed" is pointless because you don't know the time nor effort we put in.

 

Knowing of Cortese and Adkins what we do, and how far the club has come I doubt they were twiddling thumbs this summer. Even Adkins said the other day he had no summer holiday.

 

Players sign or not for loads of reasons - to say its because we should have put "more time and effort" into it is poor and unintelligent IMO.

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We obviously put a hell of a lot of time and effort into signing Ramirez who is a good player. I do think we should have put more time and effort into getting soe more players that we desperately needed. Of course we can never say for sure that concentrating on one deal means we didn't get others over the line, but even if that were not the case, I think we should have had some contingency plans in place if we had not got our first choices.

 

Contingency plan signings are a very quick way of collecting a big squad of players, inflating the wage bill and having players who are not what you wanted.

 

Re Ramirez, no one knows the effort that went into that deal compared to other targets which didn't come off. Nixon mentioned a CB signing which would have been as big as Ramirez signing so it seems we were trying at least. I think towards the end of the window, when this particular signing didn't come off, we went in for Yoshida.

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Regarding the GK situation I agree, but how so other areas? We have a strong midfield, a decent CB pairing (we need to strengthen their granted) and a forward line which scores goals. Other than getting Yoshida in a little earlier, not sure that our summer transfer policy is as dire as people make out. Ramirez, Clyne, Yoshida, Davis all have impoved us and Rodriguez is starting to look quality. Compare to Villa, Newcastle, Reading, we have done well to strengthen our squad sufficiently.

 

But as I said, we HAD to strengthen significantly as a newly promoted team. Our need was greater than many of those teams. I would say it is debatable that Davis has improved us. I think we should have signed a winger in the summer but also we were unfortunate that Blackpool were so difficult to deal with. I don't think Rodriguez has been quality yet, as someone said he hasn't come on and really changed a game. As yet the signing of Mayuka has been a bit of a mystery and our lack of cover for Lallana means we are forced to play the likes of De Ridder (although he didn't do too badly in his last appearance.) As you said the goalkeeper situation was another one, I really think we should have made a couple more signings in the summer which could have got us a few more points and got us clear of danger.

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Agreed, we need to round up the hood rats from Council Estates across Southampton and get them to congregate outside the entrance to St Mary's drinking cans of lager and/ or fake red bull energy drinks in 1 ltr plastic bottles and swearing now and again for no reason ala Stoke and Everton.

 

I'm up for it. Lets do it. We can all wear club shirts, wave scarves and hold placards with lots of clench fists punching the air and fake cheering as SKy announce the news we have beaten off competitions from a host of top European clubs to securce the deadline say signing of Jan Von Witter from Dutch Erdelvise L2 challengers RKS Beersterhoogen. A player widely regared by ITKers in Holland as the new John de Wolf.

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I'm up for it. Lets do it. We can all wear club shirts, wave scarves and hold placards with lots of clench fists punching the air and fake cheering as we announce the news we have beaten off competitions from a host of top European clubs to sign Jan Von Witter from Dutch Erdelvise L2 challengers PSV Beersterhoogen. A player widely regared by ITKers in Holland as the Dutch Jasper Gorkss.

 

Kaspars Gorkss not Jasper.

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Personally I think that we probably had Yoshida and Rhys Williams lined up, but then Williams got that knee injury and then didn't want to just bring in anyone on the final day, so didn't.

 

Yoshi has turned out to be a very good player and we're lucky that neither him or Fonte have been injured or suspended. Other than that, every player (apart from Mayuka) we brought in in January has come in and done a decent job - and Mayuka has looked bright when he's played and gives us an alternative. Fact is that we were never going to bring in players on mega wages who have already peaked. We've clearly wanted to bring in players who we can shape to play the way we want to play, and grow into the lifestyle at the club. People were screaming about us not signing people like Boswinga and Benayoun, but the fact is there is zero value in that market. The players who we brought in in the summer will have only increased in value IMO apart from maybe J-Rod, but he'll stay with us next season if we go down anyway IMO.

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Lets face it. You know absolutely nothing about the effort we went to to sign anyone, who other targets were, reasons they didn't come off, offers we made, offers we rejected for our own players etc.

Nixon seemed to. He got a hell of a lot right in the summer yet said we didn't know who we wanted at the back. We clearly wanted Butland in the summer (IMO the wrong choice for first choice keeper at the moment) and when we were outpriced we went for Gazzanigga who again was the wrong choice at this time. We then panicked and went for Boruc who it is too early to tell but hasn't played up until now. No I don't know everything that went on but we can judge by looking at the players we got and the positions we didn't strengthen that we needed to. We clearly had huge ambition to do well this year as evidenced by blowing a huge amount on Ramirez, I'm disappointed that our strategy (for whatever reason) failed to get us a few more players that would most likely have left us higher up the table than we are now.

 

Nobody does. Apart from the small proportion reported in the media.

 

I agree see above.

To say things like "I do think we should have put more time and effort into getting some more players we desprately needed" is pointless because you don't know the time nor effort we put in.

I know we can't have put enough time and effort in because the end result is that we didn't get the players we needed. We should have tried harder and it wasn't just one area, it was a few (winger, gk and cb.) We were very fortunate that we didn't get a couple of injuries to the defence that would have exposed us big time.

 

Knowing of Cortese and Adkins what we do, and how far the club has come I doubt they were twiddling thumbs this summer.

 

I agree

 

Even Adkins said the other day he had no summer holiday.

 

Players sign or not for loads of reasons - to say its because we should have put "more time and effort" into it is poor and unintelligent IMO.

I disagree for the reasons outlined above. Other clubs were able to strengthen and we had a greater need due to being newly promoted. If we stay up then it will all be mostly academic anyway because no doubt we will do better next season. It would be incredibly unfortunate if our failure to gain points at the start of the season (something directly influenced by our failure to strengthen in certain areas.) meant that we were relegated and never got a chance to see this very promising team develop.

Edited by hypochondriac
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But as I said, we HAD to strengthen significantly as a newly promoted team. Our need was greater than many of those teams. I would say it is debatable that Davis has improved us. I think we should have signed a winger in the summer but also we were unfortunate that Blackpool were so difficult to deal with. I don't think Rodriguez has been quality yet, as someone said he hasn't come on and really changed a game. As yet the signing of Mayuka has been a bit of a mystery and our lack of cover for Lallana means we are forced to play the likes of De Ridder (although he didn't do too badly in his last appearance.) As you said the goalkeeper situation was another one, I really think we should have made a couple more signings in the summer which could have got us a few more points and got us clear of danger.

 

Of course we had to strengthen and the reality is that we did. Rare that any club has a perfect transfer window which covers every single area and also brings in players which hit the ground running straight away. Especially one which has a bit more to do than other established prem teams. Is it realistic to address all areas in one transfer window?

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I'm up for it. Lets do it. We can all wear club shirts, wave scarves and hold placards with lots of clench fists punching the air and fake cheering as SKy announce the news we have beaten off competitions from a host of top European clubs to securce the deadline say signing of Jan Von Witter from Dutch Erdelvise L2 challengers RKS Beersterhoogen. A player widely regared by ITKers in Holland as the new John de Wolf.

 

Absolutely up for that, my only grip is that with the cold weather I'll need to wear my shirt over a McKenzie hoodie bought in the final days of the JJB January sale, I'll be sat atop a stolen mountain bike that's seen better days purchased for a tenner up Bursledon Car Boot sale with some gormless mates that don't like football but like swearing and drinking cheap energy drinks with an ambition to burp on live TV when asked their opinion on the competition Luke Shaw will be getting from new Portuguese veteren LB signing Javi De Lamos Mourientez Gomes!

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Hypo, you place a lot of emphasis on what Nixon said about not knowing what we want. That may have just been his opinion of the situation as he may have been hearing different names linked to us at the time. He tweeted something to that effect just before we signed Yoshida and in addition, you are ignoring the fact that prior to this, Nixon had said we were after a CB which would shock the Premier League and would be in the same league as Ramirez signing. We were clearly not idle in the summer.

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Of course we had to strengthen and the reality is that we did. Rare that any club has a perfect transfer window which covers every single area and also brings in players which hit the ground running straight away. Especially one which has a bit more to do than other established prem teams. Is it realistic to address all areas in one transfer window?

 

I think we could have done more to address certain areas where the need was greater. It would almost certainly given us a few more points and meant that we weren't so precariously close to the relegation zone and everyone was crossing their fingers hoping we didn't get too many injuries until we could get to January and strengthen.

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Hypo, you place a lot of emphasis on what Nixon said about not knowing what we want. That may have just been his opinion of the situation as he may have been hearing different names linked to us at the time. He tweeted something to that effect just before we signed Yoshida and in addition, you are ignoring the fact that prior to this, Nixon had said we were after a CB which would shock the Premier League and would be in the same league as Ramirez signing. We were clearly not idle in the summer.

 

I didn't say we were idle.

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I think we could have done more to address certain areas where the need was greater. It would almost certainly given us a few more points and meant that we weren't so precariously close to the relegation zone and everyone was crossing their fingers hoping we didn't get too many injuries until we could get to January and strengthen.

 

Until you know what we did and didn't do in the detail required and the reasons why, a statement like "could have done more" is really meaningless.

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Alright then, it seems we were trying hard then.

 

I think we should have tried harder. I think we should have had contingency plans in place if we did not get our first or second choices. Our failure to strengthen in the summer in certain areas could mean we get relegated and all our good work in the last season or two will be wasted.

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Until you know what we did and didn't do in the detail required and the reasons why, a statement like "could have done more" is really meaningless.

 

The product of our endeavour is evidenced by the players we signed. In some areas that was clearly very good but in others we didn't do so well. I maintain that we should have signed some more in other areas as other teams had done.

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I think we should have tried harder. I think we should have had contingency plans in place if we did not get our first or second choices. Our failure to strengthen in the summer in certain areas could mean we get relegated and all our good work in the last season or two will be wasted.

 

very good Hypo, another wasted debate where you ignore most of what is written and repeat the same thing.

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I think we should have tried harder. I think we should have had contingency plans in place if we did not get our first or second choices. Our failure to strengthen in the summer in certain areas could mean we get relegated and all our good work in the last season or two will be wasted.

 

We did have a contigency plan as we didn't get most of our first choice signings.

 

Butland - we got Gazza

Danny Simpson - Nathaniel Clyne

That big bid we had for a centre half that went wrong - Yoshida

Liam Trotter - Davis

Gary Hooper - Rodriguez

Lens & Phillips - Mayuka

In fact The only player we signed who was out first choice was Ramirez and that was because no one else wanted him

 

So pipe down sunshine.

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what I find odd..was a newly promoted club spending £10m on strikers to warm the bench..one of which was at the time our record signing

 

half a season and 2 league goals to show for it...what a waste of money

 

* wonders if that chat will take off at the next home game when Rodriguez comes off the bench *

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what I find odd..was a newly promoted club spending £10m on strikers to warm the bench..one of which was at the time our record signing

 

half a season and 2 league goals to show for it...what a waste of money

 

I didn't realise that Jay was about to retire.

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what I find odd..was a newly promoted club spending £10m on strikers to warm the bench..one of which was at the time our record signing

 

half a season and 2 league goals to show for it...what a waste of money

 

Why is it a waste of money? We don't just need 11 players, we need a squad. Mayuka and Rodriguez are 22 and 23 years old respectively. Rodriguez in particular is the replacement should anything happen to Lambert, plus he is his long term replacement given he is 7 years younger.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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what I find odd..was a newly promoted club spending £10m on strikers to warm the bench..one of which was at the time our record signing

 

half a season and 2 league goals to show for it...what a waste of money

 

Indeed. Whilst I know spending money does not necessarily equal success, it does seem odd that we successfully brought in these strikers for a shed load of cash yet where the need was greater we were unable to strengthen sufficiently. I don't think Jay Rod or Mayuka were particularly important signings.

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We didn't get most of our first choice signings.

 

Butland - we got Gazza

Danny Simpson - Nathaniel Clyne

That big bid we had for a centre half that went wrong - Yoshida

Liam Trotter - Davis

Gary Hooper - Rodriguez

Lens & Phillips - Mayuka

 

In fact The only player we signed who was out first choice was Ramirez and that was because no one else wanted him

 

Do you have any evidence for all of this?

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Why is it a waste of money? We don't just need 11 players, we need a squad. Mayuka and Rodriguez are 22 and 23 years old respectively. Rodriguez in particular is the replacement should anything happen to Lambert, plus he is his long term replacement given he is 7 years younger.

 

Both have made little impact for a lot of money this season. This season is the important one because it is about staying up and then developing a team to go forward with for the long term. Both Mayuka and Jay Rod have potential but are evidently not the answer for the here and now.

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Why is it a waste of money? We don't just need 11 players, we need a squad. Mayuka and Rodriguez are 22 and 23 years old respectively. Rodriguez in particular is the replacement should anything happen to Lambert, plus he is his long term replacement given he is 7 years younger.

I firmly believe that when a team like saints and a team that has just come up to the premier league...if they are going to spend £10m they should be players that are good enough to be a starter from the off...especially as one is our record signing (at the time)..

 

that is my opinion and no response you will throw and continue to throw at me will change my mind...

 

anyone looking in would say "what a waste of money".....like we would had say, reading or norwich had a £7m striker benched every week with 2 league goals to his name

 

had we been an established prem team half way up the table and looking up rather than being out of the bottom 3 on goal difference and having played a distorted amount of home games..I would say that he would add to the squad nicely....we dont have that luxury and as a result, we are going to have to spend even more money to finish where wigan and hull have done in the past on the fraction...etc

 

I believe ramirez, clyne, davis and yosh to be good...but those two for around £10m is just way too much for the impact that have given to that what we needed this season...

Edited by Thedelldays
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We did have a contigency plan as we didn't get most of our first choice signings.

 

Butland - we got Gazza

Danny Simpson - Nathaniel Clyne

That big bid we had for a centre half that went wrong - Yoshida

Liam Trotter - Davis

Gary Hooper - Rodriguez

Lens & Phillips - Mayuka

In fact The only player we signed who was out first choice was Ramirez and that was because no one else wanted him

 

So pipe down sunshine.

 

Good point Turkish, but then in other areas we barely strengthened when we needed to like getting a decent experienced keeper in and further strengthening at CB and cover for Adam. Did we have first choices for those positions?

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I firmly believe that when a team like saints and a team that has just come up to the premier league...if they are going to spend £10m they should be players that are good enough to be a starter from the off...especially as one is our record signing (at the time)..

 

that is my opinion and no response you will throw and continue to throw at me will change my mind...

 

anyone looking in would say "what a waste of money".....like we would had say, reading or norwich had a £7m striker benched every week with 2 league goals to his name

 

Stoke have had a 12m striker on the bench for the last month. Reading had 60k a week Pog on the bench for most of the season.

 

They would probably laugh more if we dropped Lambert to play Rodriguez just because of his transfer fee.

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Good point Turkish, but then in other areas we barely strengthened when we needed to like getting a decent experienced keeper in and further strengthening at CB and cover for Adam. Did we have first choices for those positions?

 

Probably, we didn't sign them either.

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Both have made little impact for a lot of money this season. This season is the important one because it is about staying up and then developing a team to go forward with for the long term. Both Mayuka and Jay Rod have potential but are evidently not the answer for the here and now.

 

I firmly believe that when a team like saints and a team that has just come up to the premier league...if they are going to spend £10m they should be players that are good enough to be a starter from the off...especially as one is our record signing (at the time)..

 

that is my opinion and no response you will throw and continue to throw at me will change my mind...

 

anyone looking in would say "what a waste of money".....like we would had say, reading or norwich had a £7m striker benched every week with 2 league goals to his name

 

Southampton's system uses one real striker with Ramirez behind, Lambert hasn't been injured or suspended and has scored 8 league goals. In the summer how much quality did we have in the striking department beyond Lambert to work at Premier League level?

 

Had we not signed Rodriguez or Mayuka, who would you suggest play if Lambert were to be injured/suspended?

 

To criticise Rodriguez for only scoring 2 goals is daft, he has been used out on the left and come on for brief cameos. Rarely has he been played as a striker. As I said, he is 7 years younger than Lambert, he is his replacement this season in case of injury/suspension etc and in the long term can be groomed to be his successor.

Edited by Matthew Le God
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I firmly believe that when a team like saints and a team that has just come up to the premier league...if they are going to spend £10m they should be players that are good enough to be a starter from the off...especially as one is our record signing (at the time)..

 

that is my opinion and no response you will throw and continue to throw at me will change my mind...

 

anyone looking in would say "what a waste of money".....like we would had say, reading or norwich had a £7m striker benched every week with 2 league goals to his name

 

I completely agree with this. My suspicion is we were expecting Jay Rod to adapt to the Premiership better than he has. I reckon we were hoping he would be first choice and then perhaps we would have quietly got rid of Rickie and replaced him with the younger model (hence where these rumours of him leaving have come from in the summer and now.) Hasn't quite worked out like that though which is OK because at least we gave it a go.

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Stoke have had a 12m striker on the bench for the last month. Reading had 60k a week Pog on the bench for most of the season.

 

They would probably laugh more if we dropped Lambert to play Rodriguez just because of his transfer fee.

i dont care what stoke are doing..they have not just come up...they are well and truely established (despite what people think on here)

and pog has scored and is scoring goals...damn sight more impact that rodriguez

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Southampton's system uses one real striker with Ramirez behind, Lambert hasn't been injured or suspended and has scored 8 league goals.

 

Had we not signed Rodriguez or Mayuka, who would you suggest play if Lambert were to be injured/suspended?

 

 

They would probably suggest Sharp. Or they won't have a response for you because you are right.

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