Why no CBs from the Accademy?

[eelpie]

On the whole topic: its hard to find players who are able to marry the attributes of being strong and mobile enough for PL football whilst a good enough defender and also capable on the ball.

 

Facing some of the best attackers around its probably the toughest position for a young player to break into.

 

Stephens, Turnbull and McCarthy are decent players but you need to be more than decent for regular PL games.

 

Alfie Jones could break the mould, he looks very promising and composed. Still think Stephens could get some games for us, maybe in Europe and is versatile too.

 

The Europa League matches are going to be fascinating, because after a busy summer of internationals and a shorter pre-season/ holiday period for some players there is going to be a need to be able to call on a wider pool of first team players, else early season exhaustion might be an issue. Could this be an opportunity for the manager to give more youngsters like Stephens first team experience?

[david in sweden]

Have to admit .....all this discussion about CB's set me to thinking back and thumbing my copies of All the Saints / In that Number with some interesting memories.

 

At the time Lawrie McMenemy took charge, local boy Paul Bennett was still in the pecking order and eventually finished his career in 1976 after 137 starts.

By that time Jim Steele (200) and Mel Blyth (135) had been bought into the club and were the backbone of the defence in / after the 1976 Cup Final side.

An outstanding CB of this era was Mark Wright who came (via Oxford Utd) made his debut aged 19 and then onto play for England whilst clocking up 222 Saints games.

 

By the time Steele and Blyth had departed Lawrie had debuted a whole series of Youth products that included; Malcolm Waldron (217 games), Rueben Agboola (111) Manny Andruszewski (98), and less-remembered names such as; Mark Whitlock(65) John Gittens (44) and Mark Blake (24) and the almost unforgettable memory of ; Forbes Phillipson-Masters ....who made just 10 starts....but they all had chances and DAJFU. Even Jason Dodd and Francis Benali played in the middle on the odd occasions.

 

Chris Nicholl (a former CB) never used local talent but instead brought in the likes of toughie Neil Ruddock (who brought back memories of 70's legend John McGrath)

 

Those early Premiership days saw Ken Monkou (224 games) as main man, and the later signings of Dean Richards (78), Michael Svensson (86) and El Khalej (51) were eclipsed by the 400 + games of Claus Lundekvam, who partnered them all at one time or another in a Saints' career stretching over 10 seasons.

 

Whilst the Academy began producing the likes of ;Wayne Bridge, Theo Walcott, Gareth Bale and Alex O-C ..it was still painfully devoid of good CB graduates.

Those who were ...came and went. Martin Crainie made just 17 starts, and his Academy CB partner Matt Mills - even less (5) ....before he departed.

Chris Baird (as mentioned before) had to wait for the mother-of-all injury crises ..before he got a regular start after 5 years with Saints, and his following performances

were good enough to persuade Fulham to spend £3 million on him, at a time when we were really stretched for cash.

 

The other lads around at the time had little or no chance of getting a look-in and moved onto pastures new. Garry Monk played just 10 games before ending up as a legend (and eventual manager) at Swansea, whilst teenage prospect Mike Williamson never got even one start with Saints, but ended up in Newcastle Prem. side in better days.

 

Our present crop of potential ex-Academy CB's reads; Jack Stephens, Jordan Turnbull, and even Jason McCarthy (lately loan RB with Wycombe) started as a good CB.

The have had game time elsewhere but it's difficult to see where they fit in to a back line of Fonte and Van Dijk, especially with Yoshida and Gardos also on the books.

 

One way or another they will need to make a good impression with Ronald Koeman, as the injury-struck U21 side saw two excellent prospects in Ollie Cook and Alfie Jones step up from the U18's this (last) season and DAJFU that surprised everyone.

 

Whilst we can expect other Academy lads to step up.... if the call comes, the CB's I fear .... will need to wait ....quite a bit longer.

Edited 28 May, 2016 by david in sweden

[eelpie]

Thanks David, informative and brought back some very good memories. I remember being impressed with Matt Mills and had forgotten he only made five starts. I was quite gutted when he left as he would have done well for us, I think.

 

Mentioning Claus's ten seasons at the back, did he ever get a testimonial? His leaving coincided with difficult times for us, but he was terrific in his day. A legend.

[VectisSaint]

The have had game time elsewhere but it's difficult to see where they fit in to a back line of Fonte and Van Dijk, especially with Yoshida and Gardos also on the books.

They don't fit into a back line with Fonte and van Dijk, and no-one would expect them to. They need to challenge Yoshida and Gardos though, to be available when either for our first choice CBs are unavailable, or when we go three at the back. Fonte is coming towards the end of his career, maybe another 2 seasons, so need to be ready to step up then. We used 5 CBs last season (including Bertrand and Caulker) and will probably need 5 again this season. Is Gardos really that far ahead of Stephens? Or even Yoshida? That's the question. I would expect to see Stephens in the squad next season, and at least get some serious involvement in the LC, FA Cup and maybe the Europa. If he is not given that chance next season then quite honestly we may as well let him move on. Turnbull is a year or so behind Stephens, so not the same issue there.

[david in sweden]

They don't fit into a back line with Fonte and van Dijk, and no-one would expect them to. They need to challenge Yoshida and Gardos though, to be available when either for our first choice CBs are unavailable, or when we go three at the back. Fonte is coming towards the end of his career, maybe another 2 seasons, so need to be ready to step up then. We used 5 CBs last season (including Bertrand and Caulker) and will probably need 5 again this season. Is Gardos really that far ahead of Stephens? Or even Yoshida? That's the question. I would expect to see Stephens in the squad next season, and at least get some serious involvement in the LC, FA Cup and maybe the Europa. If he is not given that chance next season then quite honestly we may as well let him move on. Turnbull is a year or so behind Stephens, so not the same issue there.

 

Agree with all of that Vectis.

 

My wording was a response to one or two others (on here) who (apparantly) seem to think we should have another CB from the Academy beating down the door and challenging for a first team spot.....nothing could be further from reality.

 

The stats. I researched / published on #103 ..show that first team CB's who come through the Academy - are one of the rarest commodities you can expect to find.