£4.9 Million Loss reported/players to be sold

[St Marco]

Smily faces. You're a ****ing ***** mate. Are you one of those who wanted us to lose at the weekend.

 

I think it is unbelieveable that we have people in the fanbase who take joy at this because of Rupert Lowe. How can you hold that much against someone, when (and you can't deny this because if you do the whole, he's trying to save his money etc argument doesn't work) he is trying his best to save the club from administration, which would be, without doubt an unmitigated disaster (trust me).

 

The problem is Lowe and Wilde where the ones who put us in this position. Lowe got us relegated = loads of money lost. Wilde spent the little money we did have on trying to get re-promoted = loads more money lost. Then they blame it on everyone else but themself. Lowe is the reason we are headed for administration, he is not trying his best to stop it he is making further mistakes which in say 3-4 years time we will look back on and say they were wrong.

This press release will be a key piece of evidence to show just how deluded those 2 really are.

[Gorgiesaint]

I think the statutory accounts that go to companies house are far more detailed than those that are issued to the LSE.

These accounts aren't particularly detailed compared to previous ones, no directors emoluments and all that, no highest earner,no player salary mass.

 

Thanks - be interesting to get a copy of those accounts when they get published

[Mole]

Thanks - be interesting to get a copy of those accounts when they get published

 

Will the accounts show how much it cost to pay off Lowe and Cowen and pay off the Wildes execs?

[thefuriousb]

That being so, the reality NOW is this :-

 

Poortvliet IS starting to get results from a basically Young Team

 

To enable that to develop, the Team he has "Built" MUST be kept together

 

That means that, come January, the Young players MUST be kept, and the "expensive" Luxury's got rid of

 

IF Lowe goes down the route of selling off Schneiderlin, Suirman and Lalana, that will have various effects :

 

1) We will get SOME monies in, but NOT, IMHO, enough Mega Bucks to make any significent difference to our Overal debt.

 

2) Results on the pitch will SLUMP, as, at best, three virtually untried players will have to be drafted in

 

3) Attendances will DROP even further .... WHY ?? because the Fans will see that after all the very hard work that Poortvliet has put in to assemble a Team to keep us in the CCC, Lowe will have sold off the very players that can make that happen ...... a negative spiral will have been started

 

IF Rupert Lowe REALLY wants to put Saints back on an even keel on the pitch, he MUST NOT sell off any player he can get money for. Even the Bank must realise that without a credible Team on the pitch, there will be even less success, therefore even less Support, and even LES money coming in ...... As a BUSINESS, it MUST Attract, NOT Detract

 

What he MUST do, is to allow Poortvliet to consolidate on the Team he has now got

 

If he does that, he will see a "reverse" spiral ..... more consistant results, Saints moving UP the table thus attracting MORE Supporters, which means more Revenue etc etc

 

Unfortunately, however, I know what my money would be on come January 1st .......... Another Lowe Fire Sale, and all Poortvliets work will have been for nothing

 

It must be a very very cold day as I have to agree with you for once.

 

Though that is probably explained more by the fact that you didn't let your feelings over Lowe totally take over.

 

It is more important that we lose Rudi, Saga, Rasiak & Stern - too a lesser degree Euell as I would hope we could keep him.

 

Have to do all we can to keep Drew, Lallana and Schneiderlein until the end of the season. Must keep Kelvin too!!

[Window Cleaner]

Will the accounts show how much it cost to pay off Lowe and Cowen and pay off the Wildes execs?

 

The Lowe and Cowan pay offs figure in the 2007 accounts yes. The statutory accounts (which appear in time in the Annual report section of the OS) are different to these. Usually happens after the AGM.

They are nicely presented, about 20/30 pages long with photos and detailed accounts. Check those for Year to 30th June 2007 out on the OS if you want to see what I mean. Shareholders get them in the post, or at least I did.

[Gorgiesaint]

The problem is Lowe and Wilde where the ones who put us in this position. Lowe got us relegated = loads of money lost. Wilde spent the little money we did have on trying to get re-promoted = loads more money lost. Then they blame it on everyone else but themself. Lowe is the reason we are headed for administration, he is not trying his best to stop it he is making further mistakes which in say 3-4 years time we will look back on and say they were wrong.

This press release will be a key piece of evidence to show just how deluded those 2 really are.

 

So what else should he be doing that he already isn't?

 

Lowe got us relegated? - some of his decisions certainly didn't help but I think that you'll find it was the team that actually got us relegated on the pitch

 

I'm no fan of Lowe & would rather he and Wilde (& Crouch for that matter) were out of our club, but until we find someone with some money to buy out their shares, we are stuck with what we have got.

[thefuriousb]

Spurs £5m.

 

Having just stated the need to keep Lallana...... £5m?!?!?!

 

That is in the "too tempting to turn down/silly money" territory. May even be able to do a loan until the end of the season deal?

 

 

This scenario is a bit of a dilemma - heart or the head?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

The problem is Lowe and Wilde where the ones who put us in this position. Lowe got us relegated = loads of money lost. Wilde spent the little money we did have on trying to get re-promoted = loads more money lost. Then they blame it on everyone else but themself. Lowe is the reason we are headed for administration, he is not trying his best to stop it he is making further mistakes which in say 3-4 years time we will look back on and say they were wrong.

This press release will be a key piece of evidence to show just how deluded those 2 really are.

 

Lowe didn't solely get us relegated, let's dispell that myth. There are many reasons we got relegated, the 3 managers (Lowe's fault) was one as well as poor player acquisitions for the previous 2 seasons. Maybe it was the fact that it was just our time (look at Charlton, they spent £14m and then got relegated the same season)...

 

Little money? They spent £7m, without even looking at wages. That's not little money and that is what we're currently paying for. Using an inexperienced manager (thank god Pearson's been a manager for the last 15 years)

 

What mistakes is Lowe making now that he made before? Trying a little bit of spin to try to win over the meat heads who can't tell their @rse from their elbow and continue to hurt the club by using the fact that he's back to make them feel less guilty about being **** fans.

 

It's pathetic. You support the club, not the board.

[Jez]

Surely if we've currently got a £4.9m loss, we don't have to instantly pay it all off now. We'll be paying in installments, won't need to sell x amount of players to raise all of the monies, but just a limited amount so we can pay off some of the debt.

 

Its not like we'll have to pay it all off to become the only football team in England without debts! So sure we'll have to raise some funds, but it might be that just selling those (that admittedly no one previously wanted and are all on loan now) might be enough, or else we might have to lose 1 of the players no one wants to see leave, rather than all of them.

 

Why is everyone thinking its all or nothing? If we can keep most of our team, and start getting some results, then the attendance will increase and we'll have greater funds for paying off debts etc. Of course, result dependant, but aren't all football teams?

[Mole]

What mistakes is Lowe making now that he made before? Trying a little bit of spin to try to win over the meat heads who can't tell their @rse from their elbow and continue to hurt the club by using the fact that he's back to make them feel less guilty about being **** fans.

 

It's pathetic. You support the club, not the board.

 

Lowes sneering comments that only just fall short of his "lunatic fringe" and "clingon" comments are hardly likely to win over the majority of fans who despise him.

 

Lowe Out.

[Wes Tender]

No one wants to be in the situation we're in, no one wants the split fanbase, but what are the other options... there arent any!

 

Yes there are. Lowe laughably claimed that he and five directors resigned from the board for the sake of unity, when in reality everybody knows that was the last thing on his mind. He would have stayed had it not been crystal clear that he would have been defeated in a shareholders vote at the EGM called by the Quisling.

 

If he is remotely interested in unity, he would acknowledge that he himself is the biggest single cause of disunity in the club's history and would resign from the board for good, to be replaced by a board of independent directors of high reputation and ability but with no history of baggage that would alienate the fanbase. But naturally his judgement is clouded by his ego which still tells him that he can be the club's saviour, precisely at the same time that his very presence is dragging the club closer to the precipice.

 

I wonder whether Lowe and Wilde would be kind enough to explain precisely what they mean by this paragraph though:-

 

In the event that the Group do not comply with the terms of the new overdraft facility being discussed and the agreement still to be reached with the loan note holder such that the facilities would be withdrawn, alternative financing would need to be found for the Group to continue as a going concern. The Directors would then consider seeking additional opportunities for finance from internal sources.

[saint1977]

It does appear very childish and futile to boycott the club because the Chairman is not liked.

 

 

What does that really achieve - probably less points this season as players will have to be sold

 

Read the e-mail John and you'll see that I'm not but you have to recognise - and if you do have access to board members please feel free to point this out - that Rupert is genuinely hated by a majority of fans, not me as I hate very few people and certainly no-one in football but his active presence is counter-productive to progress. He could still influence in a background way via the more sensible Cowen but chooses not to. The statement on the fans even you have to admit John was not neccessary when fan-club relations are at an all-time low (no pun intended).

 

I will be there again tommorrow for Plymouth by the way.

[Saints67]

Lowes sneering comments that only just fall short of his "lunatic fringe" and "clingon" comments are hardly likely to win over the majority of fans who despise him.

 

Lowe Out.

 

*sigh* I believe even Lowe wants Saints to win all their games. Unlike yourself.......

I really hope you can get over whatever hatred you have for that man and it must be horrendous to stop you supporting your team. Swallow your pride and get back to enjoying the game and try really, really hard to forget who the chairman is. The football isn't that bad you know. You never know you may just enjoy yourself.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Lowes sneering comments that only just fall short of his "lunatic fringe" and "clingon" comments are hardly likely to win over the majority of fans who despise him.

 

Lowe Out.

 

Slow hand clap for you, you've succesfully managed to win that discussion with your well put, well thought out, accurate and downright damning argument.

 

Does anyone else on this board read posts from all these anyone but Lowe posters, and just shake their head in disbelief at the pureile, inconsistent and factually incorrect clap trap they spout. Personally, I don't want Lowe here but ****ing hell guys, this is a joke. People are entitled to their own opinions but only if the opinions are led by fact, otherwise you just make yourself look stupid.

[St Marco]

So what else should he be doing that he already isn't?

 

Lowe got us relegated? - some of his decisions certainly didn't help but I think that you'll find it was the team that actually got us relegated on the pitch

 

I'm no fan of Lowe & would rather he and Wilde (& Crouch for that matter) were out of our club, but until we find someone with some money to buy out their shares, we are stuck with what we have got.

 

Lowes decisions lead to our eventual relegation. There is no way of getting around it but the failure to back the previous manager and employ 2 nobodies in 1 season in the premiership was never going to work. Cheap options when we didn't need to be cheap cost us.

 

And he should be seen to be doing his job, not using the media to attack not only the previous people (which includes Wilde) and the supporters. He takes zero responsibility himself for when things go wrong, and when they do go wrong he will remind you of the things he did that were good, even if they were not even good. Point being his ego and pure ignorance must infest in every single thing he does. He simply cannot make the right choices when they matter most. It is easy to run a club when you have the cash cow of the premiership, i think we could all do that. But when it comes to not having that money his policies fail.

Do not forget Crouch had the support of the bank. If we were losing nearly 5m under his plans would the bank go ahead and support it? Hell no.

[Gordon Mockles]

Your argument is flawed because it relies on the belief that Burley was a bad manager, when in fact he was pretty good for us.

 

Is this a loaded statement or baiting as it constitutes the most ridiculous statement ever on this forum! LMFAO :smt076

[Gorgiesaint]

Yes there are. Lowe laughably claimed that he and five directors resigned from the board for the sake of unity, when in reality everybody knows that was the last thing on his mind. He would have stayed had it not been crystal clear that he would have been defeated in a shareholders vote at the EGM called by the Quisling.

 

If he is remotely interested in unity, he would acknowledge that he himself is the biggest single cause of disunity in the club's history and would resign from the board for good, to be replaced by a board of independent directors of high reputation and ability but with no history of baggage that would alienate the fanbase. But naturally his judgement is clouded by his ego which still tells him that he can be the club's saviour, precisely at the same time that his very presence is dragging the club closer to the precipice.

 

I wonder whether Lowe and Wilde would be kind enough to explain precisely what they mean by this paragraph though:-

 

In the event that the Group do not comply with the terms of the new overdraft facility being discussed and the agreement still to be reached with the loan note holder such that the facilities would be withdrawn, alternative financing would need to be found for the Group to continue as a going concern. The Directors would then consider seeking additional opportunities for finance from internal sources.

 

You don't need Lowe or Wilde to explain it. I believe (IMHO) that it means that with our current income levels we cannot afford to pay the loan on the stadium & reduce the overdraft with Barclays in the way they have requested, therefore we are trying to negotiate new terms with the loan note holder which would allow us to afford the repayments. Failure with either the loan note holder or the bank and it's administration for us.

[saint1977]

Lowe didn't solely get us relegated, let's dispell that myth. There are many reasons we got relegated, the 3 managers (Lowe's fault) was one as well as poor player acquisitions for the previous 2 seasons. Maybe it was the fact that it was just our time (look at Charlton, they spent £14m and then got relegated the same season)...

 

Little money? They spent £7m, without even looking at wages. That's not little money and that is what we're currently paying for. Using an inexperienced manager (thank god Pearson's been a manager for the last 15 years)

 

What mistakes is Lowe making now that he made before? Trying a little bit of spin to try to win over the meat heads who can't tell their @rse from their elbow and continue to hurt the club by using the fact that he's back to make them feel less guilty about being **** fans.

 

It's pathetic. You support the club, not the board.

 

You are one who is pathetic. I'm going to the games AND oppose Lowe so that's your easy category neatly knackered then. As for "meathead", I am University of London educated with a Chartered Postgraduate year so wrong on that too I'm afraid. Please try harder.

 

This does not excuse the Execs or Crouch not doing their job properly in 07/08 or the splurge on 06/07, not in any way shape or form. I'm just sick of Lowe's PR companies coming on here and telling us how none of this is his fault - well, he was in charge in 05/06 and we leaked like a sieve then as well. Wilde is the worst culprit though, he has been at the centre of all of it although I see Rupert's mobile PR machine has tried to claim elsewhere on the thread on that Mike "was pushed off" by "fans on the board". Spin and fabrication. Wilde was pushed off as he didn't deliver on promised investment and pushed off by Execs WILDE appointed.

 

This subject was always going to be emotive but let's at least use some facts and cut out some of the personal stuff eh folks? Just because someone doesn't agree with your point of view it doesn't make them a neanderthal or a lesser being. Look at the divisions on this board and can you still tell me Rupert being in the frontline helps the club?

[SaintRichmond]

Good luck to lowe and co.

really hope they can sort this out and keep the team together.

 

Come on saints

 

 

 

I must admit ............ that is the best laugh I've had for ages ........

 

......... Lowe to keep the Team together ???? ......... Lowe simply views the Team as Lumps of Meat he can sell off in January, to supplement the requirements of HIS PLC

 

......... Let me know your update after Feb 1st ................

[Gorgiesaint]

Lowes decisions lead to our eventual relegation. There is no way of getting around it but the failure to back the previous manager and employ 2 nobodies in 1 season in the premiership was never going to work. Cheap options when we didn't need to be cheap cost us.

 

And he should be seen to be doing his job, not using the media to attack not only the previous people (which includes Wilde) and the supporters. He takes zero responsibility himself for when things go wrong, and when they do go wrong he will remind you of the things he did that were good, even if they were not even good. Point being his ego and pure ignorance must infest in every single thing he does. He simply cannot make the right choices when they matter most. It is easy to run a club when you have the cash cow of the premiership, i think we could all do that. But when it comes to not having that money his policies fail.

Do not forget Crouch had the support of the bank. If we were losing nearly 5m under his plans would the bank go ahead and support it? Hell no.

 

Crouch had the support of the bank & Lowe has the support (just) at the moment.

 

I agree Lowe's ego is the major problem & you are right when things go wrong, but name a plc chairman who will comment on his own failings in public. Sorry but they won't ever.

 

Right now we are stuck with Lowe & Wilde until someone comes along with (much) deeper pockets & buys the three ego's out. Lowe is unpopular and a small part of that is down to having to make some tough decisions now. I wasn't in favour of his return but have to admit out of him, Wilde & Crouch - I would choose Lowe to be the one making those decisions.

[St Marco]

Lowe didn't solely get us relegated, let's dispell that myth. There are many reasons we got relegated, the 3 managers (Lowe's fault) was one as well as poor player acquisitions for the previous 2 seasons. Maybe it was the fact that it was just our time (look at Charlton, they spent £14m and then got relegated the same season)...

 

Little money? They spent £7m, without even looking at wages. That's not little money and that is what we're currently paying for. Using an inexperienced manager (thank god Pearson's been a manager for the last 15 years)

 

What mistakes is Lowe making now that he made before? Trying a little bit of spin to try to win over the meat heads who can't tell their @rse from their elbow and continue to hurt the club by using the fact that he's back to make them feel less guilty about being **** fans.

 

It's pathetic. You support the club, not the board.

 

Firstly dont lecture me about support. I go to nearly every away game and every home game and have done so for the best part of 20 years. I have seen good times and i have seen bad times. So by your stupid logic would mean we support the name Southampton right? So if that is the case why are you not out supporting all the other local teams with the name Southampton in it? I support Southampton FC because the way the old teams played matched the way majority of us lived our lives. The under dog with not much chance somehow punching above our weight and standing tall. "The Spirit Of Southampton". I guess you need to read that up and understand what it means. There is nothing in a name, it is just a name, the character behind the name defines what it is, you need to understand that.

As i have said time and time again this is not a charity, this is not a dictatorship. We do not simply jump because someone tells us to jump. We do hand over our cash because were told were a **** supporter if we dont and so on. The fans of this club are amongst the most passionate and loyal i have met. They pay stupid amounts of money to watch what has been for the majority of it pure **** football. When you have watched that for as long as they have and paid as much as they have then you will understand why people would be unhappy about it.

 

The "Little Money" we had was big money to us but little money in the football world. Wilde spent that money not Crouch. Crouch did not spend anything. He put his own money into the club something Lowe and Wilde have never done and never will. So you can try and spin history to your own point of view but it was Wilde and Wildes chosen board who wasted that money, the same guy saying the old board are to blame....

 

And the mistakes Lowe is making is clear to see. We have taken a huge massive gamble on un-proven players. They are talking like we have won the league or something when we have not only the worst home record in the league but the worst GD and are just 1 game from the relegation zone. Hardly time to start saying they done good!

 

So please don't lecture me about the word support because you clearly have no idea what that even means.

[John B]

No the arrument is perfectly accurate. Burley was a bad manager for us. he was made to look good for one season by the appointment of a top calls and much underrated assistant manager in Glyn Snodin, whose arrival coincided with a vast improvement in the team, and whose departure coincided with the downward spiral that resulted eventually in the near-relegation experience.

 

It amazes me with the figures today, that the blame is heaped on the "previous board" and yet no mention of the fact that the previous board was appointed by the current Football Club Chairman. It is patently true that Dulieu and his team pushed for promotion at the expense of financial prudence and came a cropper in a big way. It is also patently true, as can be seen from the accounts, that without the efforts of Leon Crouch and Lee Hoos the first half of 2008, that the position would be far worse that it was (due to the loan fees for Rasiak and Skacel, and the putting in place of the plans to close the stadium corners and realign the transport agreements).

 

How can Lowe continue to work with Wilde when he was the architect of this sorry mess? (other than the obvious answer that without his support Lowe would not be in power). It is quite clear that if we have to have Lowe at this Club, the obvious power sharing should be with Crouch, not Wilde. Sadly we lost the services of Lee Hoos, who has been shown to be one of the few directors with any particular skill, either financially or football wise. I dislike Lowe intensely, and wish he was not associated with the Club, but the real villain in the piece is MW.

 

Yes it would appear to be the case

[Window Cleaner]

Lowes decisions lead to our eventual relegation.

 

 

This is why we got relegated Marco.

This and this only, why I think Lowe could have donned his boots and done a better job than some of these blokes.

Our relegation was decided by being 2-0 up and throwing it away and capitulating at Nottarf, nothing that Lowe might have done would have changed that.

We had a get out of jail card, even after the Wigley and Sturrock f*cks up,

we lost 2 matches because the players were **** poor on the day and cost the club it's 28 year top flight stretch.

For those claiming Niemi was Saints best ever keeper look at the note he got here.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/article382141.ece

[saint1977]

You don't need Lowe or Wilde to explain it. I believe (IMHO) that it means that with our current income levels we cannot afford to pay the loan on the stadium & reduce the overdraft with Barclays in the way they have requested, therefore we are trying to negotiate new terms with the loan note holder which would allow us to afford the repayments. Failure with either the loan note holder or the bank and it's administration for us.

 

Some common sense at last. This is the current position, my point is that it is FACTUALLY inaccurate to blame fans for this mess. Bad decisions have been made by every board 2003 onwards yet none of those sitting on them have ever taken responsibility.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

You are one who is pathetic. I'm going to the games AND oppose Lowe so that's your easy category neatly knackered then. As for "meathead", I am University of London educated with a Chartered Postgraduate year so wrong on that too I'm afraid. Please try harder.

 

This does not excuse the Execs or Crouch not doing their job properly in 07/08 or the splurge on 06/07, not in any way shape or form. I'm just sick of Lowe's PR companies coming on here and telling us how none of this is his fault - well, he was in charge in 05/06 and we leaked like a sieve then as well. Wilde is the worst culprit though, he has been at the centre of all of it although I see Rupert's mobile PR machine has tried to claim elsewhere on the thread on that Mike "was pushed off" by "fans on the board". Spin and fabrication. Wilde was pushed off as he didn't deliver on promised investment and pushed off by Execs WILDE appointed.

 

This subject was always going to be emotive but let's at least use some facts and cut out some of the personal stuff eh folks? Just because someone doesn't agree with your point of view it doesn't make them a neanderthal or a lesser being. Look at the divisions on this board and can you still tell me Rupert being in the frontline helps the club?

 

When I said meatheads I meant the ones that stay away due to Lowe...

[Graffito]

I think he might be astute enough to prepare a capital reserve in the event of a rights issue yes. A rights issue dilutes current share holding. If you read the provisos which exist on the proposed 2 million investment some time ago ,it states that, in the event of a rights issue the 2 million would count against new shares.

He has a 16.46 holding, he doesn't want it diluted to an 8 or 10% holding in the event of a RI.If that happened and he couldn't ante up,well then Lowe,Crouch orUncle Tom Cobley could hoover up his rightful share. Not good for him at all as he would no longer be the kingmaker and we'd probably be back to the status quo pre June 2006.

 

Yes and isn't it a reasonable expectation of Lowe and Wilde that they back their judgement by investing in more shares through a rights issue. In their judgement, of course, our young team can achieve success given time. It's their strategy, why not back it by putting your money where your mouth is? Whereas what we read is that there will be a rights issue in the event that the club must be protected as a going concern.

[saint1977]

When I said meatheads I meant the ones that stay away due to Lowe...

 

The point is DBS that in any walk of life, people can and do disagree. Personally, I'm not in the boycott camp but some of those "meatheads" have put a lot of money into SFC over 20,30,40 and in some cases 50+ years. Where would the club be without that? Probably extinct already.

 

This is a stressful, emotive and turbulent time to be a Saints fan, some of the arguments on here but also in the stands at games I've been at sadden me greatly as we all stuck together and got behind the club as we fought to hang on the PL during the 1990s so SMS could be built. Now that spirit is moribund for a variety of reasons, not just Rupert Lowe.

 

We're all fans at the end of the day so we can disagree but let's show each other a little respect?

[Wes Tender]

You don't need Lowe or Wilde to explain it. I believe (IMHO) that it means that with our current income levels we cannot afford to pay the loan on the stadium & reduce the overdraft with Barclays in the way they have requested, therefore we are trying to negotiate new terms with the loan note holder which would allow us to afford the repayments. Failure with either the loan note holder or the bank and it's administration for us.

 

It was this part that I would like further clarification on:-

 

The Directors would then consider seeking additional opportunities for finance from internal sources.

 

What does that mean? A rights issue, digging into their own pockets, selling off players or other assets? What precisely?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Firstly dont lecture me about support. I go to nearly every away game and every home game and have done so for the best part of 20 years. I have seen good times and i have seen bad times. So by your stupid logic would mean we support the name Southampton right? So if that is the case why are you not out supporting all the other local teams with the name Southampton in it? I support Southampton FC because the way the old teams played matched the way majority of us lived our lives. The under dog with not much chance somehow punching above our weight and standing tall. "The Spirit Of Southampton". I guess you need to read that up and understand what it means. There is nothing in a name, it is just a name, the character behind the name defines what it is, you need to understand that.

As i have said time and time again this is not a charity, this is not a dictatorship. We do not simply jump because someone tells us to jump. We do hand over our cash because were told were a **** supporter if we dont and so on. The fans of this club are amongst the most passionate and loyal i have met. They pay stupid amounts of money to watch what has been for the majority of it pure **** football. When you have watched that for as long as they have and paid as much as they have then you will understand why people would be unhappy about it.

 

The "Little Money" we had was big money to us but little money in the football world. Wilde spent that money not Crouch. Crouch did not spend anything. He put his own money into the club something Lowe and Wilde have never done and never will. So you can try and spin history to your own point of view but it was Wilde and Wildes chosen board who wasted that money, the same guy saying the old board are to blame....

 

And the mistakes Lowe is making is clear to see. We have taken a huge massive gamble on un-proven players. They are talking like we have won the league or something when we have not only the worst home record in the league but the worst GD and are just 1 game from the relegation zone. Hardly time to start saying they done good!

 

So please don't lecture me about the word support because you clearly have no idea what that even means.

 

I think people have misunderstood my point. I’m not saying everyone who opposes Lowe is a a bad supporter. However, I believe that those who decided not to renew this year because of Lowe and are purposefully hurting the club to remove him are way out of line, and I feel I have the right to call them bad fans because of this. If we no longer have a club to support no amount of ‘I told you so’s. Get in. smily face cartoon etc’ will be good enough, which is what I feel they are doing.

I’m not saying that Wilde isn’t to blame, in fact he is more to blame in my eyes than anyone else. However, I see him as a non-entity now, he is in a job where he does nothing, and will be disposed of at some point. The problem I have with Crouch is he continued to spend unwisely, and increased the wages to an unsustainable level. As far as I can see he doesn’t have the financial savvy and has made some big mistakes with that as well.

And to be fair, if you like being the underdog, then there is no better time than the present.

To those of you who oppose Lowe and still go I say fairplay, but I am finding it so damn difficult coming on here and reading crap from people who don’t even bother going to the matches. Frustrates the living hell out of me.

[Window Cleaner]

Yes and isn't it a reasonable expectation of Lowe and Wilde that they back their judgement by investing in more shares through a rights issue. In their judgement, of course, our young team can achieve success given time. It's their strategy, why not back it by putting your money where your mouth is? Whereas what we read is that there will be a rights issue in the event that the club must be protected as a going concern.

 

No doubt it was part of the plan but just now isn't a great time for rights issues. If itbecomes absolutely necessary no doubt it will happen but what will be the outcome remains to be seen. I wouldn't have thought that Lowe,Wilde,Wither,Cowan etc would want large blocks of unsubscribed shares becoming available to Loose Cannons and Dissenters like Fulthorpe et al;

They'd have to be pretty sure that they could take up their share at least and know where the other 54% might end up;Big risk for a few swans that you can raise elsewhere. Hence the overdraft as long as possible.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

The point is DBS that in any walk of life, people can and do disagree. Personally, I'm not in the boycott camp but some of those "meatheads" have put a lot of money into SFC over 20,30,40 and in some cases 50+ years. Where would the club be without that? Probably extinct already.

 

This is a stressful, emotive and turbulent time to be a Saints fan, some of the arguments on here but also in the stands at games I've been at sadden me greatly as we all stuck together and got behind the club as we fought to hang on the PL during the 1990s so SMS could be built. Now that spirit is moribund for a variety of reasons, not just Rupert Lowe.

 

We're all fans at the end of the day so we can disagree but let's show each other a little respect?

 

Alright man, it just really is killing me now. It is a situation that is past blame, and all we need to do is get behind the team. I used to think SF was bad but this forum is a different kettle of fish.

[La BoIS Saint]

Actually just seen the last paragraph

 

The auditors have reported on those accounts; their report was unqualified and did not contain statements under Section 237 (2) or (3) of the Companies Act 1985. However, it did contain an emphasis of matter paragraph which drew attention to the material uncertainties surrounding the going concern assumptions as set out above.

 

The auditors report attached the last set of accounts was particularly damning - why would their report be unqualified this time around? Not sure if anything should be read into this but just seems a little odd.

 

Just checked last year's audit report and it is not remotely "Damning".

 

Simply the bog standard paragraph where there are going concern issues, as there are with many companies.

[Saintmike666]

The club is in a state of financial crisis! Or are some people struggling to grasp that?!

 

We unfortunately are not in a position to be able to turn down any decent offers for players, it’s a shame but it’s true.

 

Perhaps if our home attendances were a bit better then it might not be quite as serious? Of course, not for a second would I blame our current plight on the supporters, but it is a valid point.

[WealdSaint]

The man who should step forward and take responsibility for this mess is Michael Wilde!

[Mole]

I think people have misunderstood my point. I’m not saying everyone who opposes Lowe is a a bad supporter. However, I believe that those who decided not to renew this year because of Lowe and are purposefully hurting the club to remove him are way out of line, and I feel I have the right to call them bad fans because of this. If we no longer have a club to support no amount of ‘I told you so’s. Get in. smily face cartoon etc’ will be good enough, which is what I feel they are doing.

I’m not saying that Wilde isn’t to blame, in fact he is more to blame in my eyes than anyone else. However, I see him as a non-entity now, he is in a job where he does nothing, and will be disposed of at some point. The problem I have with Crouch is he continued to spend unwisely, and increased the wages to an unsustainable level. As far as I can see he doesn’t have the financial savvy and has made some big mistakes with that as well.

And to be fair, if you like being the underdog, then there is no better time than the present.

To those of you who oppose Lowe and still go I say fairplay, but I am finding it so damn difficult coming on here and reading crap from people who don’t even bother going to the matches. Frustrates the living hell out of me.

 

It's my money and if i choose not to spend it on the Lowe/Wilde PLC then that's my business.

[saint1977]

The club is in a state of financial crisis! Or are some people struggling to grasp that?!

 

We unfortunately are not in a position to be able to turn down any decent offers for players, it’s a shame but it’s true.

 

Perhaps if our home attendances were a bit better then it might not be quite as serious? Of course, not for a second would I blame our current plight on the supporters, but it is a valid point.

 

Spot on, as long as the offers are decent, that is true. What the board need to do is hold the line with the bank far enough so that we remain competitive whilst continuing to reduce our outgoings.

 

There is something that you are all missing though - the academy. It's brought through some fantastic players but has also increased the overheads substantially. It probably takes the best part of £5-7m p.a to run, maybe more, yet we are barely able to service it. I'm a supporter of the academy but the Bank might not be in the short-term - at it's current size. Water it down any more though and you only have a Centre of Excellence - no more Bales or Surmans or Lallanas can be attracted then.

 

People have to realise that it isn't just transfer dealings and paying off the huge turnover of managers and coaches that have made the club unsustainable.

[saint1977]

The man who should step forward and take responsibility for this mess is Michael Wilde!

 

Hit.Nail.On.Head.

 

This is why I respect Lowe far more than I'll ever respect Mike Wilde. I don't like Lowe but Wilde really does hide when the going gets tough.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

It's my money and if i choose not to spend it on the Lowe/Wilde PLC then that's my business.

 

Then if I choose to call you a **** supporter that's my business.

[Mole]

Then if I choose to call you a **** supporter that's my business.

 

That's your opinion, but IMO every fan that is boycotting the Lowe/Wilde PLC is making a sacrifice for the long term good of the club.

[Gordon Mockles]

The 2007/08 football season was a major disappointment with the Club finishing 20th in the Coca Cola Championship, only surviving relegation on the final day of the season.

“Having been so close to promotion in the 2006/07 season, and losing in a penalty shoot out in the play off semi-final, the Board backed its football manager George Burley, to strengthen the squad with transfer fees and increased player wages to make a further challenge for promotion to the lucrative Premier League”

 

What utter spin! So funny. Lowe's board - They're characters eh?! They've more front than Harrods!

 

So, in one breath, Jones is praising an element of the board (which we must assume is Wilde and co), in essence, as we got “so close to promotion in the 2006/07 season, and losing in a penalty shoot out in the play off semi-final, the Board backed its football manager George Burley…” but failing to acknowledge that the method of that very “backing” was the massive over-spend (in money we didn’t have) by Mike Wilde himself.

 

Then Jones goes on to state that “The cost of this player expenditure, together with the loss of the parachute payment from the Premier League, has had a materially adverse impact on the financial results, which show a 36% reduction in revenue from £23.3m to £14.9m and an increase in the loss before taxation from £0.9m to £4.9m, despite a £12.7m profit on disposal of players' registrations” (This must now be attributed to Crouch as this is the negatively critical part)

 

Unbelievable! Let's have our cake, and eat it! And who oversaw a large part of that? Errrrr, Well…according to Wilde, Jones and Lowe, the chief culprit/scapegoat is Leon Crouch (unless it's positive in which case it must be Wilde and the good things he inherited from Lowe)

 

Yes, Leon inherits ALL THE BLAME for the failings of Lowe and, more conclusively, Wilde in a few short months (Leon's tenure). That is, despite most of this financial overspend and damage being instigated by Wilde and his failed appointments (Hone and co - who took the club siege and dished out ludicrous contracts to players while Wilde stepped down, leaving Leon to sort out the mess of a club he left in utter turmoil).

 

Rich words Jones! Rich indeed - laughable really (but hypocrisy is the mantra of the current axis in charge). You can’t write comedy like that. Maybe we should blame the fans too...

 

All very convenient, this critical news all piggy backs on the back of a very positive win for Saints! Great timing. Purely coincidence of course!

[Mole]

Rich words Jones! Rich indeed - laughable really (but hypocrisy is the mantra of the current axis in charge). You can’t write comedy like that. Maybe we should blame the fans too...

 

In case you missed it Lowe does get his customory sneer in at fans who oppose him. It wouldn't be Lowe if he didn't blame everyone apart from himself.

[The Rover]

Then if I choose to call you a **** supporter that's my business.

 

 

IMHO that's insulting and against the rules of the forum but what do I know.

[Arizona]

I just don't get where the money is going. I really don't.

 

We must surely have one of the lowest wage bills in the CCC now. Appart from Davis, Skacel, Thomas, Euell and BWP, all our players are either cheap loans, cheap free transfers or from the accademy.

 

Even with the drop of attendances, 14,000 plus is still pretty healthy for this League. Teams like Colchester, Barnsley, Burnley, Plymouth, Blackpool and Scunny have gotten by with less in recent years.

 

Is it really the stadium debt that's crippling us? I was under the impression that we had a 25 year mortgage, with payments of just over £1m a year, which adds up to around £2m a year when you add in the interest.

 

Surely the accademy doesn't cost that much. What have we got, a cloning lab in there?!

[Gorgiesaint]

Just checked last year's audit report and it is not remotely "Damning".

 

Simply the bog standard paragraph where there are going concern issues, as there are with many companies.

 

I quote -

 

These conditions, together with the other matters explained in the Statement of Accounting Policies, indicate the existence of a material uncertainty which may cast doubt about the Group’s ability to continue as a going concern.

 

Auditors casting doubt about a companies ability to continue as a going concern - pretty damning from where I'm sitting!!

[Mole]

IMHO that's insulting and against the rules of the forum but what do I know.

 

Thanks for that, but it's par for the course from the vile creatures that support Lowe.

[Chez]

Will the accounts show how much it cost to pay off Lowe and Cowen and pay off the Wildes execs?

 

Yes. £600,000.

[Wopper]

In case you missed it Lowe does get his customory sneer in at fans who oppose him. It wouldn't be Lowe if he didn't blame everyone apart from himself.

 

The man has the mentality of a spoit child so what do you expect.

[Chez]

I just don't get where the money is going. I really don't.

 

We must surely have one of the lowest wage bills in the CCC now. Appart from Davis, Skacel, Thomas, Euell and BWP, all our players are either cheap loans, cheap free transfers or from the accademy.

 

Even with the drop of attendances, 14,000 plus is still pretty healthy for this League. Teams like Colchester, Barnsley, Burnley, Plymouth, Blackpool and Scunny have gotten by with less in recent years.

 

Is it really the stadium debt that's crippling us? I was under the impression that we had a 25 year mortgage, with payments of just over £1m a year, which adds up to around £2m a year when you add in the interest.

 

Surely the accademy doesn't cost that much. What have we got, a cloning lab in there?!

 

The figures are for last years accounts. Nothing done since Lowe returend has any effect on this set of accounts.

 

The £5M loss comes through an increase in wages from last summer (low earners like Jones, Bale, Pele, Baird leave and replaced by high earners such as John, Thomas, R Wright etc.), the loss of the parachute payment and 3000 less on the gate every week (and the knock on effect that has in terms of matchday expenditure).

 

Not rocket science really. When the parachite payment was stopped we should not have signed John and Saga when we had enough strikers. And we should have been able to find defenders that cost us a lot less then the £1.2m we paid for Thomas.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

In times like the present, where expenditure is almost outweighing income by 2:1, selling players is the only realistic option....

 

Clubs who are looking at our players are far more likely to be looking at the younger players as they will be perceived as providing better value. While they might be a bit more expensive in terms of transfer fees, they won't command overinflated salaries and they'll probably have a good sell-on value in a few years' time as well.

 

A depressing scenario.

 

If our expenditure is CURRENTLY outweighing income by 2:1, without selling, we need to approximately double our home crowd. That isn't going to happen. Selling players helps the overdraft if the capital receipt is used to pay it off, but it only helps a bit on the excess expenditure because it won't and cannot all count as current period income.

 

The "benefit" of selling players is the saving of costs that are all charged to the financial period - i.e. wages/salaries, but if we can only unload youngsters who are earning relatively small wages then I can't see that saving anything like enough. And if agents' fees are chargeable wholly to profit and loss rather than deducted from the capital realised, selling might not be as beneficial as people think.

 

In the football industry a 4.5m loss is not normally such great shakes, Saints have lost more is some years when we were at the Dell. The problem is serious however if there is little prospect of getting into profit again.

 

The real killer in my opinion was in year 1 following relegation, not last year. Were we going to try to get back into the Prem, or not? If the plan was not to try, then costs should have been cut much more drastically then.

I'm sorry if people see this as another anti-Lowe rant, but it seems to me that he cut costs to a degree but never set out a real plan. We drifted along more in the hope of getting back. And that ultimately posed a real problem for the incoming board - push the boat out in a last effort, or carry out even more ruthless cuts than Lowe seemed to envisage. But fans' expectations had already been raised by Wilde.

 

Without major savings on the stadium repayments, I don't believe we can ever get back into the black. And with Lowe there, a rights issue will not succeed, because I can't see him and his cronies taking it up.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that Crouch would have been the better person to run Saints this year, and I have a sneaking suspicion that's what Barclays might be thinking as well.

[Chez]

Having just stated the need to keep Lallana...... £5m?!?!?!

 

That is in the "too tempting to turn down/silly money" territory. May even be able to do a loan until the end of the season deal?

 

 

This scenario is a bit of a dilemma - heart or the head?

 

when was the last time Harry spent £5m on an unproved nipper? Can't see that myself.