Adkins tactically astute, overall?

[Mr X]

He is good a getting the best out of mediocre players the last two seasons has proved that beyond doubt I also admire his positivity even when we've played as badly as against Sunderland he focuses on the positives and is upbeat like we nearly won.

 

Tactics don't seem to be his main strength and he seemed neither to have a clear strategy at the start of the Sunderland game or the finish when it was clear mayuka and lambert wasn't working he waited till eighty mins to make a change

 

cant help but feel Adkins puts the pretty passing game ahead of everything else and we have no plan b even when that isn't working do you feel Adkins can mix it up when it's not working or is he a little one dimensional?

[beatlesaint]

He had a definite plan yesterday which involved getting at Sunderland with pace, hence the selection of Mayuka and substitution involving De Ridder.

 

Unfortunately it didnt work tho !

 

I found it a little strange that Jay Rod had his best game for us against Reading last time out and never got on the pitch yesterday, and that Mayuka who has been warming the bench since he came here suddenly gets a start when in 10 days time he will be off the the ACN. Why oh why Mayuka wasn't tried out wide was beyond me, his best cameo for the club being against Spurs when he ran at them and scared the living daylights out of them from the right wing.

 

Just like the game itself the selections, tactics and general approach all seemed a bit "meh" really.

Edited 23 December, 2012 by beatlesaint

[Olallana]

He is good a getting the best out of mediocre players the last two seasons has proved that beyond doubt I also admire his positivity even when we've played as badly as against Sunderland he focuses on the positives and is upbeat like we nearly won.

 

Tactics don't seem to be his main strength and he seemed neither to have a clear strategy at the start of the Sunderland game or the finish when it was clear mayuka and lambert wasn't working he waited till eighty mins to make a change

cant help but feel Adkins puts the pretty passing game ahead of everything else and we have no plan b even when that isn't working do you feel Adkins can mix it up when it's not working or is he a little one dimensional?

 

You do know that he substituted Mayuka after 55 mins and switched Ramirez into the no10-role at that moment.....??

[Mr X]

You do know that he substituted Mayuka after 55 mins and switched Ramirez into the no10-role at that moment.....??

 

Ahh yes I am incorrect about that then I just thought he brought de-ridder on for puncheon around about ten minutes to go

[The Kraken]

Unfortunately I think the loss of Lallana led Adkins to make a number of mistakes yesterday in trying to find the best way to cope without him:

 

Decided on playing a 442.

Playing Mayuka off Lambert; they've not really played together before and it showed.

Plonking Ramirez out on the wing; it negates his effectiveness and I feel doesn't play to his strengths.

 

I don't think we'll see that starting formation again any time soon. And I hope we won't see 442 again either; the midfield gets too overrun, and if we're going to have a £12M man lets have him in his proper position.

 

I was also quite worried at the number of times we kept lumping up chipped balls to Lambert. It was obviously a deliberate tactic that we kept repeating over and over without really learning. Appalling distribution didn't help that, to be fair.

Edited 23 December, 2012 by The Kraken

[Kingsland Red]

In fairness to NA, he was trying to get Mayuka and Lambert closer together to play off each other for most of the first half, if our interpretation of his 'accordian' hand signals was correct.

[Pedro]

I can't understand why we kept JR on the bench when we were losing. 1.0 down and we brought on those match winners DeRidder, Guly and Davis. Clearly Mayuka was not having a good game, Gaston looked lost and overpriced, a winnable game lost.

[The Kraken]

In fairness to NA, he was trying to get Mayuka and Lambert closer together to play off each other for most of the first half, if our interpretation of his 'accordian' hand signals was correct.

 

God knows that didn't work. Even when Lambert did win a knock down it very rarely went to one of our players, they seemed miles away from him.

[LGTL]

4-4-2 was terrible. Should have stuck with what we were doing and bring in a direct replacement for Lallana on the left. Problem is, we don't really have one.

[Saint86]

His tactics were horrendus yesterday.

 

1.) you don't beat a team camped in their 18 yard box with pure pace. What is there to get behind, the touchline?

 

2.) Wtf, we lose our best player in Lallana, so he compounds the error by taking Ramirez, and sticking him out of position on the left, where he is not involved and is wasted. Everything he did was when he came into the middle of the pitch. So basically we were missing our both of our best creative midfielders, (you need them to unlock a team camped on their 18 yard line)! Nice way to help Villa and handicap ourselves.

 

However,

 

His changes were good. De ridder got at villa with some actual skill and was dribbling through quite a few of them. actually gave us some penetration. (Shock appearance though, but I think he did allright tbh.) Only downside to him was his delivery swasn't brilliant, although 50% accuracy on crosses. Puncheon on the other hand was a **** stain all evening. I don't want to even go there with him, just dribbles like a headless chicken then never looks up or got the ball caught in his feet. He sucked donkey balls.

 

Guly did okay, had some good ball control and strength which is what we needed, keep forgetting what a tank he can be. Personally we should have had JRod on for Lambo, Guly on for punch and de ridder on for mayuka - all on 50min, gone for a 4-3-3 and got at them with ramirez in the whole, but as per usual, Nigel left it to late to and made the wrong subs for me.

 

 

I love nigel to bits, but yesterday the tactics were off and the players let him down big time. Especially Lambert, punch, cork, morgan and Gaston. To be honest, the only player who stood out for us was 17 year old shaw, and even at 80min he was one of the most positive energetic players we had, still doing a driving run into the box when certain other players had long since switched to half arsed mode!

[Dalek2003]

Why did De ridder get at Villa yesterday ?, I thought we played Sunderland. Must be that pesky Dr mucking up the hand of Omega again !

[Wade Garrett]

Ramirez down the left didn't work yesterday. He didn't really work the line with Shaw, and is easier to deal with in a more constrained role than his normal one behind the centre-forward.

 

I'm not sure though, that yesterday was just a poor performance. He plays on the left for Uruguay after all. But to me, he didn't look interested in playing wide, and did his best work in the middle.

 

Hard to blame the manager for players poor performances yesterday. But to me, Lambert can't play the deep position that Ramirez did and Ramirez isn't suited, and doesn't want to, play wide. I was disappointed with our corners as well, the high floater to the back post that is easier to defend than a ball fired in with pace. We tried that one once yesterday and Fonte nearly scored.

 

I reckon Strachan would have accused us of playing 'propoganda' football yesterday. Compare our passing game with that of Swansea, theirs is quicker and more penetrative than ours was yesterday. As Adkins said, it looked flat, to me it seemed a bit slow and laboured. We missed Lallana.

 

The players let the manager down yesterday.

[John B]

I think Adkins has done well despite having a a poor squad

 

We have a reasonable first team but not much if these players get injured suspended or lose form temporarily

[captainchris]

Unfortunately I think the loss of Lallana led Adkins to make a number of mistakes yesterday in trying to find the best way to cope without him:

 

Decided on playing a 442.

Playing Mayuka off Lambert; they've not really played together before and it showed.

Plonking Ramirez out on the wing; it negates his effectiveness and I feel doesn't play to his strengths.

 

I don't think we'll see that starting formation again any time soon. And I hope we won't see 442 again either; the midfield gets too overrun, and if we're going to have a £12M man lets have him in his proper position.

 

I was also quite worried at the number of times we kept lumping up chipped balls to Lambert. It was obviously a deliberate tactic that we kept repeating over and over without really learning. Appalling distribution didn't help that, to be fair.

12m man can only play in one position and even then is suspect ! 12m - sorry I want more for my money haven't seen enough yet to justify 3m..... Yes Adkins has to sort his mind out too but hey Ramirez needs to step it up and pronto because as yet he isn't producing value for money.....

[captainchris]

God knows what Adams worth is if Ramirez is worth 12m because he is not as good as AL!

[david in sweden]

He is good a getting the best out of mediocre players the last two seasonsQUOTE]

 

.....whilst I agree witht he basis of your text, there is no room for mediocre players in the Prem. which means we have a few more to look closer at before deciding what can be done...if anything to upgrade them.

[lydlinch saints]

clueless

[david in sweden]

He is good a getting the best out of mediocre players the last two seasons has proved that beyond doubt I also admire his positivity even when we've played as badly as against Sunderland he focuses on the positives and is upbeat like we nearly won.

 

Tactics don't seem to be his main strength and he seemed neither to have a clear strategy at the start of the Sunderland game or the finish when it was clear mayuka and lambert wasn't working he waited till eighty mins to make a change . cant help but feel Adkins puts the pretty passing game ahead of everything else and we have no plan b even when that isn't working do you feel Adkins can mix it up when it's not working or is he a little one dimensional?

 

 

...hardly this. .......he's always talking about " changing the shape" .and no-one seems to complain when we do win points..but TBF we don't have the "strength in depth " we had when in Championship.

[Itchen_block4]

I think Nigel was trying to be too clever against Sunderland. Wouldn't be the first time, but it's better than having a manager at the other end of the spectrum entirely who religiously doesn't change a thing and just lets the rot happen when a big player gets injured. He got it wrong and I've got plenty to say on that, but the real test of his nous will be how he sets up this afternoon.

[david in sweden]

In fairness to NA, he was trying to get Mayuka and Lambert closer together to play off each other for most of the first half, if our interpretation of his 'accordian' hand signals was correct.

 

I agree, but it's typical isn't it. When we win no-one complains about anything, when we lose...... the tactics were wrong .....and it's all NAs fault.

 

If it was left to the manager...we'd win 6-0 before the kick-off....so what do you do when players don't do as they're told ?...

[S-Clarke]

I agree, but it's typical isn't it. When we win no-one complains about anything, when we lose...... the tactics were wrong .....and it's all NAs fault.

 

If it was left to the manager...we'd win 6-0 before the kick-off....so what do you do when players don't do as they're told ?...

 

It's the world of a football fan though, we're all football managers in our heads and we all think we know better! So when we lose, we know of why and how to fix it in our heads....!! If only the real world was a straight forward as that!

[stevegrant]

Much like the rest of the team, he has learned a lot since the start of the season. Of course he'll continue to make mistakes, nobody's perfect, even Sir Alex Ferguson continues to make mistakes with his team selections despite being the most successful manager in British history.

 

At the start of the season, we'd go into games attempting to win them by playing our "normal" way, and then ended up looking clueless when that didn't work. 3-4 months on, you can clearly see differences in how we're set up on a game-by-game basis. For example, against Sunderland we put pace into the team having seen that they play a high defensive line to apply pressure to their opponents, so we utilised the long ball into channels with Mayuka's pace. Sunderland countered that in the second half of that game by dropping 20 yards deeper, so we then brought De Ridder on to attack the full-back.

 

Yesterday, when I saw the lineup it looked like we were going for 3 central midfielders in an attempt to outnumber them, but then it became clear that Steven Davis was in there to play just behind Lambert. The system made sense but I probably would have put Guly in that position instead, and Davis was pretty ineffective there really.

[max_saints]

i think the past two games has shown that, like the team, even NA is steadily improving up to premier league quality. his tactics have been masterfully spot on both games, far cry from earlier on in the season when he just seemed to not know what his best team was. credit also has to be given to the team for sticking to the plan.

 

a decent analysis of our tactics against arsenal: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/name/tacticsandanalysis/id/632?cc=4716

[Toadhall Saint]

i think the past two games has shown that, like the team, even NA is steadily improving up to premier league quality. his tactics have been masterfully spot on both games, far cry from earlier on in the season when he just seemed to not know what his best team was. credit also has to be given to the team for sticking to the plan.

 

a decent analysis of our tactics against arsenal: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/blog/_/name/tacticsandanalysis/id/632?cc=4716

 

That link would seem to suggest (correctly IMO) that NA out thought AW. That can't be right surely? I mean this is Wenger we're talking about. Full marks mr Adkins.

[Greenridge]

That link would seem to suggest (correctly IMO) that NA out thought AW. That can't be right surely? I mean this is Wenger we're talking about. Full marks mr Adkins.

 

Several very positive reports in various media of Adkins tactical approach to the game.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

I think he's pretty good tactically.

 

Even at the start of the season when we were leaking goals like infection from a whores lip the shape was pretty good, we were just making countless suicidal mistakes individually. Something which no amount of coaching or tactical astuteness can combat.

 

In recent weeks we have in general had a very good shape, and looked pretty resolute - again part of adkins tactics paying off.

 

I also agree with some of his selections/substitutions which others go into a blind rage about simply if Rickie is taken off/starts from the bench. Yes he is our talisman, but sometimes you need to make changes for specific threats. We are not a team that can impose ourselves and our game on every team in the League. If Adkins thinks a game is more likely to be won by us on the counter attack, Sir Rickie starts to become isolated and ineffective. Left on his own up top there is little he can do, and it becomes easy for defenders to hold a high line. Players more mobile make more sense in the instances I think. Just because we have lost these games, doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do, these are often games we would be expected to lose.

[david in sweden]

Despite the reams of complaints about NAs tactical skill / lack of it ....I'd say he put out a good side yesterday ....considering that Clyne and Lallana were still unavailable.

...Also for not putting KC through the nightmare of remembering his visit to the Emirates.... and finally giving Boruc a chance.

[The Kraken]

I wasn't sure of yesterday's line-up with Cork at right-back; especially so with Richardson left on the bench. That said, Cork played a blinder and it worked out well. Not sure where that leaves Richardson though....

 

Guly at LM was a good move too, gave the midfield a lot more solidity. Substitutions were understandable enough too. So in retrospect no complaints on yesterday, and Steven Davis did a bit more to suggest that Morgan and Cork don't necessarily have the starting midfield berths all to themselves.

[ottery st mary]

The boy done gooood.

 

Improving all the time.

 

Big learning curve this big boyz league.

 

I was advised by one of the most astute football brains in the world ( that is enough about my daughter)...

 

That Uncle Nigel ain'T HALF BAD AT THIS FOOTER GAME...

 

Well done Nige..keep going:)

 

 

The timing for the cheer for NA came at a bad time...they bloooody well scored.

 

 

COYS

[stevegrant]

I wasn't sure of yesterday's line-up with Cork at right-back; especially so with Richardson left on the bench. That said, Cork played a blinder and it worked out well. Not sure where that leaves Richardson though....

 

Guly at LM was a good move too, gave the midfield a lot more solidity. Substitutions were understandable enough too. So in retrospect no complaints on yesterday, and Steven Davis did a bit more to suggest that Morgan and Cork don't necessarily have the starting midfield berths all to themselves.

I thought last night was, by some margin, Davis' best game for us so far. He has set the bar relatively low, though, so just as we wouldn't necessarily write someone off after one bad game, I'm not yet convinced he's likely to nail down a starting spot on a regular basis.

[The Kraken]

I thought last night was, by some margin, Davis' best game for us so far. He has set the bar relatively low, though, so just as we wouldn't necessarily write someone off after one bad game, I'm not yet convinced he's likely to nail down a starting spot on a regular basis.

 

I thought he looked ok at the start of the season; decent when introduced against Man City and good against Man Utd. But then his performances flattened off a bit. The West Brom game was a particular low point for me, he looked off the pace and too reluctant to get amongst it all. Yesterday he looked much different, very keen to get in and break up play, and also supported the front line quite well too. Hopefully plenty more of that to come.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

clueless

 

Is this a confession or are you just an idiot?

[Bucks Saint]

Several very positive reports in various media of Adkins tactical approach to the game.

 

I will not believe its true until DPS says it's so

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Our tactical diversity since the start of the season has been quite dramatic. The first month of the season was full of the 'Southampton Way' and an almost arrogant insistance by the club (be that Manager or Owner depending on who you believe) that we would play one way with one formation - and we paid the price accordingly. I even remember Adkins getting short with one interviewer when asked about tactics when he said something like 'listen, we're going to play 4-2-3-1, right'.

 

Whilst we saw a little change in terms of personnel for games in the system it did seem set in stone. Then we started to mix it up - not just in terms of formation but also our style of play - and lets be honest, we've hit Rickie on the long ball far more often in our last 10 games than in our first 10 games. Whilst there are other things that have helped us in our upturn of form (introduction of Cork and Shaw, a general acclimatising to the league and for new signings) I also think our tactical diversity (in terms of shape and style) has also played a significant part. And when was the last time we heard the 'Southampton Way' when Adkins talked tactics?

 

So the change has happened and we can speculate as to why and where in the chain of command someone caved in (be it Adkins, Cortese, or Reed). I thought we went too far the other way in the Stoke game when I saw the teams, almost changing far too much in respect of the opposition but I was shocked at how well we stood up to them and played. The defenders struggled to cope with us and in midfield we were strong too, and coped well enough at the back. In fact I thought we did so well I thought Adkins would be half tempted to play so direct and physical against Arsenal.

 

So now it poses a new problem for us. It is no longer about us insisting on playing one way, we have developed a few different ways to play and shown we can apply ourselves well accordingly. The challenge is now for Adkins to select the right tactic in each game now, so he almost has a different pressure altogether. I trust Adkins to do enough to see us do well enough, but he will make mistakes as well and we shouldn't jump on him all the time for them.

 

It will be interesting to see the sort of player we go for now - I suspect (based on nothing but a hunch) we'll learn towards physical players who have traits you can't coach and trust our club to develop them as footballers. Then we'll see a squad who can play both a physical game and passing game when required moving forward.