Thedelldays Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 Maybe if Schneiderlin gave him the ball instead of passing backwards and sideways we'd get more out of him. agree..but ramirez probably gives the ball away more than anyone in our team....not always his fault but he does give it away a great deal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 Maybe if Schneiderlin gave him the ball instead of passing backwards and sideways we'd get more out of him. this but not just Morgan, speed of brain is as important as speed of foot. without Lallana we struggle in the football brain stakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 agree..but ramirez probably gives the ball away more than anyone in our team....not always his fault but he does give it away a great deal.... Often trying that special pass though, a lot more risky an a sideways 10 yarder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 Don't you just love one eyed football supporters? One half against villa, when everyone played well, and people are coming in their pants over him. If he's worth the money we paid then my cocks a carrot. Guly gets a load of clog, but this guy is supposed to be a star. Stop with the excuses , he has been really average. He was shocking today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 So we payed £12m, have him on a 4 year contract. Dividing that makes it £3m per year, and we haven´t even played half a season so that makes it a £1.5m spending so far. That gives you great value so far I would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 So we payed £12m, have him on a 4 year contract. Dividing that makes it £3m per year, and we haven´t even played half a season so that makes it a £1.5m spending so far. That gives you great value so far I would say. straight from the pompey book of logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born In The 80s Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 So we payed £12m, have him on a 4 year contract. Dividing that makes it £3m per year, and we haven´t even played half a season so that makes it a £1.5m spending so far. That gives you great value so far I would say. Jesus, what a way of looking at it! Well, carry on if it makes you feel better but length of contract means jack **** in today's game. 12 million was spent for Ramirez to produce the goods now. Not in 3 years time. Frankly, none of the summer signings (bar Clyne) have lived up to their billing. Make you realise how lucky we were last season to have guys like Rick, Adam, Cork and Schniederlin. If Ramirez is worth 12 million, what would the asking price be for Adam?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 straight from the pompey book of logic No, actually from the book titled "the people that dont make their judgements after 10-12 games" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 No, actually from the book titled "the people that dont make their judgements after 10-12 games" why cant we....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 why cant we....? it is VERY obvious that you can. But it makes no sense, and THAT was the point with what I said. Football is not a short term business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 Strange that when he was injured we were terrible, and as soon as he came back we started winning. Ah coincidences, you got to love them. I think that it was because Jack Cork came back into the team............apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 it is VERY obvious that you can. But it makes no sense, and THAT was the point with what I said. Football is not a short term business. actually..football is both short and long term...spending £20m+ for the future when we have just gone up is utter madness for our record signing and a pretty big signing in the league...I thought he would come and be more accomplished that what he is for the money a club like us have spent on him and his wages.. just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordswoodsaints Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 I would say....no, sadly This ^ Too much of a diver for me,he's obviously got talent but I don't think we will ever see the best of it. If I had to judge him on today's performance alone then I would have to say a complete waste of money but overall he's been average with a few glimpses of skilful talent.......must do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 I dont know why I support my club. Everyone is **** and I'd be better of spending the money going to the theatre. Didnt go today but gaston has been pretty good since he joined. Don't think anyone can deny his quality. Moaners **** me off on this site. He is our most talented player FFS support him!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 I dont know why I support my club. Everyone is **** and I'd be better of spending the money going to the theatre. Didnt go today but gaston has been pretty good since he joined. Don't think anyone can deny his quality. Moaners **** me off on this site. He is our most talented player FFS support him!!!!!! who isnt supporting him...? people are just commenting on that he has not looked like a record £12m player really...some dont agree and the world goes on and he still rakes home £45k a week he gets (as anyone) heaps of mega, spine tingling praise when he is on form...so it works the other way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 I dont know why I support my club. Everyone is **** and I'd be better of spending the money going to the theatre. Didnt go today but gaston has been pretty good since he joined. Don't think anyone can deny his quality. Moaners **** me off on this site. He is our most talented player FFS support him!!!!!! Totally with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 who isnt supporting him...? people are just commenting on that he has not looked like a record £12m player really...some dont agree and the world goes on and he still rakes home £45k a week he gets (as anyone) heaps of mega, spine tingling praise when he is on form...so it works the other way... But no player plays well all the time and he's played and linked up very well in pretty much every other game. Not to mention the fact he should have been in the hole instead of being out on the left. When he did get to cut in he looked better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 But no player plays well all the time and he's played and linked up very well in pretty much every other game. Not to mention the fact he should have been in the hole instead of being out on the left. When he did get to cut in he looked better. I dont think anyone is saying that is not true...just commenting on value for money....to me, if he was playing for another team you would think that £12m was too much....likewise, if steve de ridder cost £10m, you would say that was over priced there is a huge difference between the two players but the point is there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IOWSaintDaz Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 The guys only 22 FFS and is trying to adapt to the English game after playing in then slow paced Italian league in the best league in the world against the best players in the world so give him a break and judge him on his performances at the end of the season. I for one have faith he will come good in the end we are not a 1 man team we are 11 players vs 11 players and everyone has to perform together and that was why we lost today because we didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 So far he's been awful. Ridiculous assertion - you obviously haven't watched every match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 actually..football is both short and long term...spending £20m+ for the future when we have just gone up is utter madness for our record signing and a pretty big signing in the league...I thought he would come and be more accomplished that what he is for the money a club like us have spent on him and his wages.. just my opinion. fair enough. I dont make my judgements after 10 games on ANY new player. New players need time and thats why the team that you have from the year before has to be the foundation of the team and then the new addition will need time to fit in perfectly. And I certainly dont think we bought Gaston to do miracle in this condition in december. The conditions today played perfectly in Sunderlands hands... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 I dont think anyone is saying that is not true...just commenting on value for money....to me, if he was playing for another team you would think that £12m was too much....likewise, if steve de ridder cost £10m, you would say that was over priced there is a huge difference between the two players but the point is there IMO the only thing he hasn't done enough of is shoot. His touch, ability, vision etc is equal to and in some was better than Lallana's and we'd all agree he's worth at least 12 mill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 Ridiculous assertion - you obviously haven't watched every match. Not sure if he's being serious or not......if you are Botley, have a word mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 IMO the only thing he hasn't done enough of is shoot. His touch, ability, vision etc is equal to and in some was better than Lallana's and we'd all agree he's worth at least 12 mill. agree about shooting...also, he gives the ball away more than anyone else in the team...not always his fault but he does.... but would like to see him (and the team) shoot more around the area... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 agree about shooting...also, he gives the ball away more than anyone else in the team...not always his fault but he does.... but would like to see him (and the team) shoot more around the area... Especially on wet days like today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByTheGolacs Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 Did someone die today? We were flat, Sunderland seemed a bit more up for it and (as is often the case when these two happen), the bounces went their way and 50:50's were mainly won by them. We had a bad day. Ramirez was ok. Not brilliant, but far from the worst player on the pitch from both sides. I don't suppose a ****ing wet Saturday in the UK is something he has played a match in too often either. BUT WHAT A BUNCH OF BED-WETTERS WE HAVE ON THIS BOARD. JEEZ - TALK ABOUT GLASS HALF EMPTY KNOW IT ALLS. LOVE READING YOUR POSTS THOUGH. MAKES ME REALISE HOW MUCH I HAVE GOING ON IN MY LIFE COMPARED TO SOME ;-) JOG-ON!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggles31 Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 Lets be honest most of the team were awful in the second half. He was one of our best players first half. This season Ramirez has produced flashes of brilliance and he is often involved in moves that led to goals. He is obviously still adapting and we all know the best is yet to come. He seems to struggle against well organised 4-4-2 style teams but when we play passing teams he is more involved, Liverpool aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 I dont know why I support my club. Everyone is **** and I'd be better of spending the money going to the theatre. Didnt go today but gaston has been pretty good since he joined. Don't think anyone can deny his quality. Moaners **** me off on this site. He is our most talented player FFS support him!!!!!! Based on what? The fee? His reputation? Personally, I've yet to see he's our "most talented" player. If you ask me, he flatters to deceive. Maybe he'll come good, maybe he wont, but he has not done anything to indicate to me he's worth £12mil. The past few games he's played, he's been really really average. I suggest that had we not paid £12mil for him, he'd be sat on the bench by now. Surely as a supporter of 40 years, I'm alowed an opinion on players and as a member of this forum I'm allowed to reply to threads. The OP asked if he was good value, at the moment I dont think he is, you do-great, let's hope you're right and I'm wrong. But with Adam out, we needed him to stand up and be counted today and personally I think he went AWOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 Did someone die today? We were flat, Sunderland seemed a bit more up for it and (as is often the case when these two happen), the bounces went their way and 50:50's were mainly won by them. We had a bad day. Ramirez was ok. Not brilliant, but far from the worst player on the pitch from both sides. I don't suppose a ****ing wet Saturday in the UK is something he has played a match in too often either. BUT WHAT A BUNCH OF BED-WETTERS WE HAVE ON THIS BOARD. JEEZ - TALK ABOUT GLASS HALF EMPTY KNOW IT ALLS. LOVE READING YOUR POSTS THOUGH. MAKES ME REALISE HOW MUCH I HAVE GOING ON IN MY LIFE COMPARED TO SOME ;-) JOG-ON!!!!! Exactly. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colehillsaint Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 A football match is 90 minutes. You only need half of one of those minutes to score a pivotal goal and Ramirez is worth a lot of money because he has the vision and skill to create that situation even if many times things don't come off. It's not like a centre back who has to be fault free doing simpler things to look worth a lot of money. We were poor today. With AL out I think we gave the opposition less than half as much to worry about. Ricky looked sluggish and Mayuka looked lost in the first half, so not a fair day to judge Ramirez on. Anyway, £12m is not that much for a premier league player. We can all think of bargains that have come good, but in terms of wastes of money, Gaston would not get near a list for PL football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 If we had 3-5 more points than we do now, it's unlikely this question would never have arisen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 If we had 3-5 more points than we do now, it's unlikely this question would never have arisen. But we don't. And it has. £12M? I'm yet to see too much that would value him at more than the £7M we paid for Rodriguez. Awful today; absolutely awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 But we don't. And it has. £12M? I'm yet to see too much that would value him at more than the £7M we paid for Rodriguez. Awful today; absolutely awful. So you think the performances so far this season has been equaly good from Rodriguez and Ramirez?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 So you think the performances so far this season has been equaly good from Rodriguez and Ramirez?? That's clearly not what I suggested at all, is it? Rodriguez is also showing that he was vastly overpriced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 If we had 3-5 more points than we do now, it's unlikely this question would never have arisen. Had we spent the £12mil more wisely we may well have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 For £12m, for a club like Saints, he isn't what we needed. The guy is clearly a good player, he clearly has a lot of potential and is a close to a world class player as we've had since MLT. He is also 22 years old, playing in a team which isn't good at the moment and players around him who aren't on the same wave length. He won't be brilliant every week, he won't dominate a game, hes 22 FFS! What he is is a player of supreme class playing in team where most of those around him aren't anywhere near his level. Should he be here and should the £12m have been spent on 3 proven premier league players who have been there, done that and will keep us up? Well I have my own view on that, but if I revealed it in sure is be called a troll and subject to jokes about peodophiles and people ****gging my mum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 It is difficult in a struggling team for a flair player, who was injured for a long period of time, the came back only to have family bereavement. I still do not think he has been match fit this season, let alone have time to hit form in a team that have been tightening up at the back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmacian_saint Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 He is clearly our best player, but like Lallana, needs to get his head down to what his feet should do rather than what he wants them to do. The successive dead end passes to Lambert are a good example of this. He is too distracted with what he wants to be doing and his constant search to be able to do something great technically hinders his awareness. This makes him take too long on the ball, or miss good opportunities to play the ball out wide or find a break in the defensive lines. Both of them always seem very eager to produce something worthy of showboat clips whenever they have the ball. We don't need that. Too often good first moves are cancelled out by an exaggeration (Lallana's slalom or Ramirez's constant low flicks of the ball). What I am very concerned however is his lack of pace. He seems to be slow, which is not a good thing. I hope that once he gets a decent run of PL fitness preparation he will improve this, as will his aggressiveness but it is a well-documented case that of South American players whose lack of pace and nerve lets their amazing technical ability horribly down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Stimp Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 As much as I love Gaston, I can't help but look at Michu and think of what could have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 He is clearly our best player, but like Lallana, needs to get his head down to what his feet should do rather than what he wants them to do. The successive dead end passes to Lambert are a good example of this. He is too distracted with what he wants to be doing and his constant search to be able to do something great technically hinders his awareness. This makes him take too long on the ball, or miss good opportunities to play the ball out wide or find a break in the defensive lines. Both of them always seem very eager to produce something worthy of showboat clips whenever they have the ball. We don't need that. Too often good first moves are cancelled out by an exaggeration (Lallana's slalom or Ramirez's constant low flicks of the ball). What I am very concerned however is his lack of pace. He seems to be slow, which is not a good thing. I hope that once he gets a decent run of PL fitness preparation he will improve this, as will his aggressiveness but it is a well-documented case that of South American players whose lack of pace and nerve lets their amazing technical ability horribly down. Behave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 This is odd. I didn't get to see the game today, but the other times I've seen Ramirez, he's been a class above everybody else in the team. Seeming to be able to react and create things in the same time most players can manage a poor reaction shot. I would have said he was clearly a player that had the potential to be worth what we paid, but you need to see a player over a pretty long time to really know. I mean, no player can prove that value over ten games, or prove he's not worth it over a similar amount of games. After the last few games people seemed to be fairly unanimous in saying he was a superb talent. Yet after the game I've missed, everything seems to have turned on its head. Now it seems people have enough to decide his value. This must've been a very telling performance, that was enough to discount the talent we've seen before and rule out any other common reasons for a bad game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 This is odd. I didn't get to see the game today, but the other times I've seen Ramirez, he's been a class above everybody else in the team. Seeming to be able to react and create things in the same time most players can manage a poor reaction shot. I would have said he was clearly a player that had the potential to be worth what we paid, but you need to see a player over a pretty long time to really know. I mean, no player can prove that value over ten games, or prove he's not worth it over a similar amount of games. After the last few games people seemed to be fairly unanimous in saying he was a superb talent. Yet after the game I've missed, everything seems to have turned on its head. Now it seems people have enough to decide his value. This must've been a very telling performance, that was enough to discount the talent we've seen before and rule out any other common reasons for a bad game. I find it hilarious. On the one hand we make excuses for our performances because we've got a team of largely league one players yet in the next breadth slag off the player we have on genuine class as not being worth the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 Relatively speaking he is actually no more expensive than the £4m we paid for Delap in 2001. So maybe the real question should be who of those two would you prefer to see in the team? And forget today as most of them looked lack lustre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 I find it hilarious. On the one hand we make excuses for our performances because we've got a team of largely league one players yet in the next breadth slag off the player we have on genuine class as not being worth the money. I don't think anyone is slagging him off. But today was his worst performance for us so far IMO. And from what I've seen of him (which has been very good at times) I don't think he's shown that he's worth anywhere near £12M. Not yet. A bit like Rodriguez hasn't shown he's worth the £7M we spent on him. Both Rodriguez and Ramirez may well prove btheir worth in the future; but nearly £20M spent on future talent rather than an immediate massive impact is looking more and more like a questionable venture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 I find it hilarious. On the one hand we make excuses for our performances because we've got a team of largely league one players yet in the next breadth slag off the player we have on genuine class as not being worth the money. Agreed, how many 1st choice international players do we have? (Not including Scotland, or in the squad for England) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 I don't think anyone is slagging him off. But today was his worst performance for us so far IMO. And from what I've seen of him (which has been very good at times) I don't think he's shown that he's worth anywhere near £12M. Not yet. A bit like Rodriguez hasn't shown he's worth the £7M we spent on him. Both Rodriguez and Ramirez may well prove btheir worth in the future; but nearly £20M spent on future talent rather than an immediate massive impact is looking more and more like a questionable venture. But surely the whole team were pretty poor today, or at least the attacking players? I do not know, as I was not at the game, so a genuine question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 I don't think anyone is slagging him off. But today was his worst performance for us so far IMO. And from what I've seen of him (which has been very good at times) I don't think he's shown that he's worth anywhere near £12M. Not yet. A bit like Rodriguez hasn't shown he's worth the £7M we spent on him. Both Rodriguez and Ramirez may well prove btheir worth in the future; but nearly £20M spent on future talent rather than an immediate massive impact is looking more and more like a questionable venture. Which brings me to the point i made in my OP on this topic. Was Thr £12m spent on him worth it or better spent elsewhere? The reality is we could have got 3 proven, solid Premeir league players for that. But we were told inAugust we didn't need premier league experience......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 Which brings me to the point i made in my OP on this topic. Was Thr £12m spent on him worth it or better spent elsewhere? The reality is we could have got 3 proven, solid Premeir league players for that. But we were told inAugust we didn't need premier league experience......... it looks odd that you have £20m worth of talent...in Rodriguez, mayuka and Ramirez and have not had £20m with or input..no where near...ramirez has on occasions. for saints to spend £7m and £12m on players, they need to be in the team making a difference.. clyne has, and yoshida looks decent...steve davis is a decent squad player...but the two biggest could have had that money spent so much more wisely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 22 December, 2012 Share Posted 22 December, 2012 But we don't. And it has. £12M? I'm yet to see too much that would value him at more than the £7M we paid for Rodriguez. Awful today; absolutely awful. Sorry you're wrong - that was a poor SECOND half by the WHOLE team! Ramirez was our best player in the first half creating just about everything. Yes in the second half he struggled to have any influence going forward, as did all of the front four, but he didn't hide, wanting to make a difference! Frankly to say he was absolutely awful is rubbish, and not really helpful! We should be getting behind our team, and Gaston, so called fans on here need to either get a life, go out a bit more or worse..... our forum is an embarrassment...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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