Tokyo-Saint Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Well said the OP. Most people leave terms like "mong" and "spaz" behind when they leave primary school. Some carry on into secondary school. Unfortunately, a very small number of them continue even after that. And they all seem to be on here. If I were in a face-to-face conversation with anyone who used these terms, I'd think less of the person using them. The same applies on here. It's not being PC, it's just treating people with decency and not showing yourself to be a fool with limited vocabulary. What about the other words, mental, loon, crazy etc? Do they not have similar origins and are therefore insulting? I don't see how one word about a mental problem can be socially acceptable for one group but the same group get offended by another word with a very similar meaning/background. People need to look at the malice in which the word was delivered and how the user meant it. If I call Bearsy a dumb idiot, I'm joking, if I am chanting it and pointing at kids leaving a school for the deaf, it is completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 what if people do have a limited vocabulary...? are they not allowed to speak..? But the vocal minority who use those terms are quite articulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 What about the other words, mental, loon, crazy etc? Do they not have similar origins and are therefore insulting? I don't see how one word about a mental problem can be socially acceptable for one group but the same group get offended by another word with a very similar meaning/background. People need to look at the malice in which the word was delivered and how the user meant it. If I call Bearsy a dumb idiot, I'm joking, if I am chanting it and pointing at kids leaving a school for the deaf, it is completely different. The op referred to 2 specific words. In what context do you deem them acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 The op referred to 2 specific words. In what context do you deem them acceptable? surely, any word can be offensive to someone....I dont find the word mong offensive...nor do I personally know anyone who does..so to me, it is no issue. it is not an illegal term..I probably would not use it directly at a genuine mong.....but on a football forum where very little is serious, I like to think it is fine.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 The op referred to 2 specific words. In what context do you deem them acceptable? Why are they unacceptable but "mental" is? You say yourself "nutter" is okay. Yet arent lunatic asylums often refered to as "the nut house"? Surely this is just as offesive as "Mong" or "spaz" if you were easily offended by such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Can we also refrain from calling people "bed wetters"? It's not called for and offensive to those with bladder control issues like Turkish who was brave enough to share his issues with us on this fine mungboard. For those who do say it, just remember you are in a dumb minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 surely, any word can be offensive to someone....I dont find the word mong offensive...nor do I personally know anyone who does..so to me, it is no issue. it is not an illegal term..I probably would not use it directly at a genuine mong.....but on a football forum where very little is serious, I like to think it is fine.. That's the point. If you wouldn't call a disabled person a mong or spaz then you do understand the terms to be offensive, surely? The fact that the words themselves aren't illegal doesn't make it socially acceptable to use them! Its about commonsense. Those using the terms on here clearly have the vocabulary to use alternatives. Instead, they choose to use terms which me, the op and others find unacceptable in any context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 surely, any word can be offensive to someone....I dont find the word mong offensive...nor do I personally know anyone who does..so to me, it is no issue. it is not an illegal term..I probably would not use it directly at a genuine mong.....but on a football forum where very little is serious, I like to think it is fine.. This thread is about two words. Don't veer off course to try to justify your use of these offensive terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 That's the point. If you wouldn't call a disabled person a mong or spaz then you do understand the terms to be offensive, surely? The fact that the words themselves aren't illegal doesn't make it socially acceptable to use them! Its about commonsense. Those using the terms on here clearly have the vocabulary to use alternatives. Instead, they choose to use terms which me, the op and others find unacceptable in any context. When in doubt, I follow the lead of the mods of the :spaz:board. Mixed messages? (look at its goggly eyes and the snot running down its face- i cant help staring at it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 When in doubt, I follow the lead of the mods of the :spaz:board. Mixed messages? (look at its goggly eyes and the snot running down its face- i cant help staring at it) We have mods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 That's the point. If you wouldn't call a disabled person a mong or spaz then you do understand the terms to be offensive, surely? The fact that the words themselves aren't illegal doesn't make it socially acceptable to use them! Its about commonsense. Those using the terms on here clearly have the vocabulary to use alternatives. Instead, they choose to use terms which me, the op and others find unacceptable in any context. No one has the right to never be offended. It's a football forum FFS, I'm sure you, the OP and others have the ability to just move on to the next post if you see anything you don't like. Or is the alternative to tailor the forum in such a way that it doesn't ever offend anyones sensibilties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 We have mods? when they're not at the curryhouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 What about Plum, plank, lemon, mug and bulb. Are these offensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 No one has the right to never be offended. It's a football forum FFS, I'm sure you, the OP and others have the ability to just move on to the next post if you see anything you don't like. Or is the alternative to tailor the forum in such a way that it doesn't ever offend anyones sensibilties? It's this bedwetting, mongy behviour which is ruining this forum and why all the good posters dont bother anymore and i can see why!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 when they're not at the curryhouse Thats offensive it should be called a Restaurant of Ethnic Asian Cuisine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 This thread is about two words. Don't veer off course to try to justify your use of these offensive terms. but the two words are just part of the whole issue.... what is a mong exactly..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 but the two words are just part of the whole issue.... what is a mong exactly..? When you are "monged" it's usually because you are hungover or on a comedown is it not? Or it could be the shorted name of a mongoose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 What about Plum, plank, lemon, mug and bulb. Are these offensive? in the context of: The plum plank was being painted lemon with the paint in a mug and a flower bulb being used as a brush. No cant find any of that offensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00l8nhp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00l8nhp Dont you get groups of people "outraged" by everything these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Dont you get groups of people "outraged" by everything these days? Possibly. Maybe have a chat with the lady who broke down at the end of that interview and take it from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Egg, why don't you answer the question re: nutter/looney etc? Do we really need to start another thread about these words? Seems like a get out to me. These words are possibly offensive to some, derive from mental health problems but you still use them. Why? Also, what's all this about vocal minority? This is a discussion not an election. I was putting my point across to input to the discussion. There has not been a poll or an election as far as I am aware and at no point was I campaigning. Also, the strategy of saying the mods are not doing those job for letting the discussion run is pretty pathetic. If the mods fall for this and close the discussion, I despair. Move it to the lounge but don't close it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00l8nhp Difficult not to sympathise with the lady, particularly at the end ! Personally I would never use words like mong and spaz or anything which could be considered derogatory to disabled people either physical or mental ! There is a wider issue however, about usage of words, ie : A Scot from Scotland or a Brit from Britain are considered ok, but a Paki from Pakistan is taboo and could land you in jail ! I suppose that everyone has their own limits but most people surely should be careful never to mock the afflicted ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 I read the first few posts of this thread and soon got bored. If someone could let me know what words we're all supposed to be offended by now it would be much appreciated. Is there a book of condolences I can sign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 (edited) Difficult not to sympathise with the lady, particularly at the end ! Personally I would never use words like mong and spaz or anything which could be considered derogatory to disabled people either physical or mental ! There is a wider issue however, about usage of words, ie : A Scot from Scotland or a Brit from Britain are considered ok, but a Paki from Pakistan is taboo and could land you in jail ! I suppose that everyone has their own limits but most people surely should be careful never to mock the afflicted ! And there's the rub really. If you're using the term mong or spaz directly to someone with learning difficulties then the connotation is directly clear; its bullying and its out of order. But using it to one of your mates in jest, the connotation changes entirely. Its akin to calling a mate a cripple after he's been taken out by a hefty challenge on the football pitch and is limping off. Its akin to calling someone blind if they can't see something obvious, or calling people deaf if they don't hear something. All of those are, by the exact definition, mocking the afflicted. But they're not, really. I speak as someone who has a sister who has been severely mentally handicapped since birth. If someone described her as a mong or a spaz then I'd likely find it very offensive. Using it as a general term in parlance with your mates is entirely different IMO, and I don't necessarily have a problem with it. The lady on the radio was entirely correct; she was upset about the terms being used as express and direct terms of bullying towards her and her family. And Ricky Gervais also stepped over that line with his "they" comment. The trick is finding where that line is; and in truth it'll be different for everyone. Edited 18 December, 2012 by The Kraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Do people not agree there is a big difference between standing on a street corner shouting at disabled people "Mongy, Mong, gets everything wrong, thicko, spazy, mongy mong" and calling someone who makes a stupid comment on an anoynomous internet football forum a mong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Difficult not to sympathise with the lady, particularly at the end ! Personally I would never use words like mong and spaz or anything which could be considered derogatory to disabled people either physical or mental ! There is a wider issue however, about usage of words, ie : A Scot from Scotland or a Brit from Britain are considered ok, but a Paki from Pakistan is taboo and could land you in jail ! I suppose that everyone has their own limits but most people surely should be careful never to mock the afflicted ! Exactly my point. I don't use the word/words very much other than when talking to or quoting Turkish. However, I am against the word police and the ever tightening line of political correctness. BTW - anyone see Mitch Le tissier's joke on twitter the other day? If you want to talk about offensive, start there and work your way to the other words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 And there's the rub really. If you're using the term mong or spaz directly to someone with learning difficulties then the connotation is directly clear; its bullying and its out of order. But using it to one of your mates in jest, the connotation changes entirely. Its akin to calling a mate a cripple after he's been taken out by a hefty challenge on the football pitch and is limping off. Its akin to calling someone blind if they can't see something obvious, or calling people deaf if they don't hear something. All of those are, by the exact definition, mocking the afflicted. But they're not, really. I speak as someone who has a sister who has been severely mentally handicapped since birth. If someone described her as a mong or a spaz then I'd likely find it offensive. Using it as a general term in parlance with your mates is entirely different IMO, and I don't necessarily have a problem with it. The lady on the radio was entirely correct; she was upset about the terms being used as express terms of bullying towards her and her family. And Ricky Gervais also stepped over that line with his "they" comment. The trick is finding where that line is; and in truth it'll be different for everyone. Nail on the head mate! (this is in no way an insult to people who have been injured on building sites, just means I think he got his point right on the mark). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Nail on the head mate! (this is in no way an insult to people who have been injured on building sites, just means I think he got his point right on the mark). Yes, a very good post from Krackers as usual. Now i'm sure we'll have the "if one person is offended that is one person too many" brigade jumping up and down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Exactly my point. I don't use the word/words very much other than when talking to or quoting Turkish. However, I am against the word police and the ever tightening line of political correctness. BTW - anyone see Mitch Le tissier's joke on twitter the other day? If you want to talk about offensive, start there and work your way to the other words. What was the joke toke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Yes, a very good post from Krackers as usual. Now i'm sure we'll have the "if one person is offended that is one person too many" brigade jumping up and down. This is offensive to those with a disability preventing them form having a full range of movement and motion. I hope the mods take action Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 (edited) Do people not agree there is a big difference between standing on a street corner shouting at disabled people "Mongy, Mong, gets everything wrong, thicko, spazy, mongy mong" and calling someone who makes a stupid comment on an anoynomous internet football forum a mong? True, but the mother I linked to on the radio show was making a connection between people using the word "for a laugh" and those that then go on to use it to be directly spiteful to people with a disability. Now, we can sit here all day long arguing whether your average playground bully feels empowered to use such words to be spiteful because he's heard someone use them in jest (i.e. in another context) but we'll probably never reach a conclusion on that as none of us are psychologists. I certainly remember when I was at school people using words they had heard on TV in a spiteful bullying fashion on the playground the next day (e.g. "Joey", "spastic", etc), so it does happen (people taking what might be acceptable in one context as a green flag to use it in a less acceptable context) She may have a valid point, she may not. Given how distressed a mother of a child with a disability got over the issue I'm happy to give her the benefit of any doubt. Edited 18 December, 2012 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Yeah nice try dig dog, has bear paid you to get me banned? Let's just say the joke involved the small paralympic medal winning swimmer, snow white and 6 dwarfs. Now that was out of order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Yeah nice try dig dog, has bear paid you to get me banned? Let's just say the joke involved the small paralympic medal winning swimmer, snow white and 6 dwarfs. Now that was out of order. He also referred to Tottenham as "Yid Army", which is another hot potato of late. I think Mitch is a little bit of a renegade, bless him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paris Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Be interesting to see figures of how many where coming on here two years ago compared to today's ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 This is offensive to those with a disability preventing them form having a full range of movement and motion. I hope the mods take action You really are spiteful. How you haven't been banned yet I will never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 What about calling people racists? Is this allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 You really are spiteful. How you haven't been banned yet I will never know. What's happened to you? You used to be such a nice little boy on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Be interesting to see figures of how many where coming on here two years ago compared to today's ..... Today's what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 What's happened to you? You used to be such a nice little boy on here. Im not the one whose contributions on this thread have undermined the OP and most people's sense of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 This is offensive to those with a disability preventing them form having a full range of movement and motion. I hope the mods take action I hear women with no legs make great strawbery pickers. so there is one job we'd all like to do that straight away they excel at. Jammy c*nts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 I hear women with no legs make great strawbery pickers. so there is one job we'd all like to do that straight away they excel at. Jammy c*nts. Wrong....... But Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 He stole that joke from mitch le tiss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudders Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 We could maybe come up with some wacky alternatives like mung for mong, Spuz for spaz. I'm not happy about this Turkish, sometimes people shorten my user name to Spudz and I feel the word Spuz could cause confusion around if people are referring to me or a spaz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Egg, why don't you answer the question re: nutter/looney etc? Do we really need to start another thread about these words? Seems like a get out to me. These words are possibly offensive to some, derive from mental health problems but you still use them. Why? Also, what's all this about vocal minority? This is a discussion not an election. I was putting my point across to input to the discussion. There has not been a poll or an election as far as I am aware and at no point was I campaigning. Also, the strategy of saying the mods are not doing those job for letting the discussion run is pretty pathetic. If the mods fall for this and close the discussion, I despair. Move it to the lounge but don't close it. Tokyo, firstly I haven't said anything to suggest I want the thread to end. My comment was light hearted, and frankly, was meant as a statement that I rarely see any evidence of effective modding anywhere on the forum. Secondly, I have said that this thread is about thje use of two words (it is) although I have given a reply to Turkish (i think) about a couple of others and stated that context is crucial to the use of some words. Kraken made some good points on that. Broadly I agree with him, but the difference is that using words like spaz around your mates (without others over hearing) is different to using it around anonymous people on a forum and in the knowledge that otheers will read it. I apperciate that some post all day on here. I've got better things to do with my time than give an opinion on the use of various words. If I get into a discussion on certain words, then you and others will bang on all day. The op makes a point that I agree with. You don't and I'm not interested in extending the discussion. Vocal minority is a simple concept. You,and a few others, have more to say than most others on most topics - this included. You are, therefore, the minority of posters but collectively the most vocal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian lord Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Looks like we should just stick to calling people f u c k ing c u n t s then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Shhhhhh Adrian, Egg is a busy man you know. This discussion is over, he said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Shhhhhh Adrian, Egg is a busy man you know. This discussion is over, he said so. It's over for me, but others may have an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 The funny thing is, I don't think we differ too much in our opinions if we both agree with Kraken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 I shall be using "spud" from hereon in. Surely no-one can complain about being liked to the honest, bland, upstanding, ugly, solid, lumpy, wholesome potato or sharing its advanced intellectual capacity ? Spud, Spuddie and Spudulike (that's spud-ooh-lick-uh, not spud-you-like) are the future. Strange how people can ascribe enough meaning to "mongtard" to be offended though, it's a completely made up word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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