Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 Why is it that the Premier League is seen as the be-all and end-all? Personally I miss us winning most weeks with a genuine belief of success in the lower divisions. We're all told the Premier League is the 'Best Division in the World ' but is it really all that? Is testing ourselves against the best teams in the country and losing better than playing poorer teams and winning? I don't know myself, but taking the emotions felt whilst watching football surely all we want is to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 Premier League is the pinnacle of ambition. Championship is better fun when you're actually going to matches. IMO, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 Has to be Premiership We all want to win every week, but we also want to see the team every week and those of us not living in the UK cannot do that unless we are in the top division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintrich Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 Playing at the top level gives us the chance to keep and sign top players. What I don't understand is people saying they would rather we be in League One again. Rolling over teams like Gillingham and Hartlepool with players such as James, Mills, Trotman etc was ok for a couple of seasons and it was nice to go to some new grounds and cheaper games, but it would have grown tiresome in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 The Championship was only fun when we were winning. As a fan I want to see my club competing at the highest level it possibly can. The wins at this level feel more meaningful, the goals more joyful, the extra profile at rubbing shoulders with the best clubs in the country more satisfying. Premier League all the way for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 Playing at the top level gives us the chance to keep and sign top players. What I don't understand is people saying they would rather we be in League One again. Rolling over teams like Gillingham and Hartlepool with players such as James, Mills, Trotman etc was ok for a couple of seasons and it was nice to go to some new grounds and cheaper games, but it would have grown tiresome in the end. I'm pretty sure I've never seen anyone say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 It's by far the most competitive league top division. Look at Spain, two horse race every year. The gap from Barca in 2nd to Valencia in 3rd was 30 points, or 39 points from Real in 1st to Valencia in 3rd. By comparison, well we all know how close the race between 1st & 2nd was. Fulham in 9th place finished 37 points behind Utd & City. This is where the 'Best League in the World' title comes from. Week-in, week-out the Premiership show cases some of the best footballers on the planet, with the favourite teams often coming unstuck. Personally, it's my view that as a fan, I want to see Saints be the best they can be. I want to see the best possible players play for the club, against the best possible opposition. Why do so many people watch the Olympics or the World Cup? Because it is the best competing against the best. So yeah, we might lose more often than when we were facing Rochdale, Gillingham and Notts Co week in week out, but that's the price you pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 At a means of comparison; I was at Cardiff v Peterboro this weekend, top of the table versus bottom, Cardiff with 10 wins from 10 at home this season, the biggest home banker in football. Peterboro won 2-1, the scoreline could have just as easily been 7-3 to Peterboro. For me it epitomised Championship football; the bottom clubs can always beat the top clubs, its much more unpredictable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 The championship is great, yes. and I'd rather we were winning pretty much every week and going to away games half expecting to take 3 points, than losing every week. BUT if we're competing in the Premiership and giving a good account of ourselves and winning the odd game then I'd definitely rather be in the Prem. Would you rather be where Reading are - or where Cardiff are at the moment? Reading are barely even competing in this league at the moment and haven't really done all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 I loved league 1, the championship and the premier league. It may just be the team more than anything else really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinR Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 Watching football isn't about solely winning, or we'd all happily be in league 2 beating teams 4 nil all season. Its about watching the football at its pinnacle of quality. Sorry you just don't get that in the championship. The gap in quality is much bigger than I was expecting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 How is that any different to the top flight where bottom clubs regularly beat top clubs? We did it for years, Wolves beat Man Utd, Norwich MU and Arsenal, Blackburn won at Old Trafford last season. There's always a chance of upsets. Its akin to Manchester City v Reading. Man City's first defeat at home in about two and a half seasons or more came recently; against 2nd placed Man United. Man City's record at hom last season was W18 D1 L0. Their record this season was standing up to that until they were beaten by the team in second place. The top of the Premier League is a closed shop. The top of teh Championship isn't. There's your difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 I don't remember having too much fun in the championship in 07/08 or 08/09 The problem is, there isn't a gaurentee of success. Going down would open the door for a hell of a lot of our players to leave, so in many ways we'd need to start again and probably wouldn't be competitive for a few months. Ask the question to Blackburn or Bolton fans...I'm sure they're loving it down there, and I'm pretty sure they'd have been saying the ''championship isn't all that bad'' last year as well. I just want to see us competing as high up as we can, and we need to be in the PL to achieve that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 (edited) I don't remember having too much fun in the championship in 07/08 or 08/09 The best day I ever had at St. Mary's was staying up on the last day of the season against Sheffield United. Different strokes for different folks. I went to far, far more games in the Championship and League 1 than I had done and do go to in the Prem (I've been to 4 games this season, and while I'll be going to Sunderland and Fulham I'll probably not do too many games in the New Year). Simply put; I'm not too fussed about being in the top league. Its a strange dichotomy, granted; the desire to win all your games and aspire to promotion. I just enjoyed Saturday games much more away from the glitz and glamour of the PL, and going to games is very much the most important thing for me. I'm enjoying the Prem, of course. But nowhere near as much as I did our play-off year. Plus the seemingly non-stop Saturday game, midweek game, Saturday game, midweek game was a brilliant factor. In the PL there's much less games and its all dictated by European schedules, which I find a massive pain the arse. Edited 17 December, 2012 by The Kraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaucho Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 If you keep winning in the lower leagues you don't stay there! Premiership all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 The best day I ever had at St. Mary's was staying up on the last day of the season against Sheffield United. Different strokes for different folks. I went to far, far more games in the Championship and League 1 than I had done and do go to in the Prem (I've been to 4 games this season, and while I'll be going to Sunderland and Fulham I'll probably not do too many games in the New Year). Simply put; I'm not too fussed about being in the top league. Its a strange dichotomy, granted; the desire to win all your games and aspire to promotion. I just enjoyed Saturday games much more away from the glitz and glamour of the PL, and going to games is very much the most important thing for me. I'm enjoying the Prem, of course. But nowhere near as much as I did our play-off year. Plus the seemingly non-stop Saturday game, midweek game, Saturday game, midweek game was a brilliant factor. In the PL there's much less games and its all dictated by European schedules, which I find a massive pain the arse. I do totally get where you are coming from, and I do miss the fact that the season is kept alive until the last 2 weeks in the championship for e.g. That makes it exciting to be fair, and I did also enjoy the classic mid-week games under the flood lights. They were always a good atmosphere, but as a fan of this club I just want us to be as successful as we can be. I want to see us with more Gaston Ramirez's in the team, more young players coming through and staying etc, and even though the Championship is a good crack, that wouldn't be possible down there. It's easy to stagnate as well, very easy. and you find yourselves on a slope towards a relegation battle really easily in that league. Luckily we had the finance to get ourselves out and swing our fortunes around, but if you're a club which has stagnated, doesn't have a massive amount of finance etc, then you're in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 There is no ideal scenario for what I want. I want a successful side in the championship; but that then leads to the Premier League! In any case, I'm not really fussed. The PL is alright, we may be towards the bottom but at least we have our own mini-league. Just a shame it doesn't encompass the whole league is all. I really hope we give the FA Cup a proper go though. If not, then there's really no point in us being here. Its one thing that we can genuinely look at and hope to win (and fingers crossed Chelsea don't take it too seriously). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 There is no ideal scenario for what I want. I want a successful side in the championship; but that then leads to the Premier League! In any case, I'm not really fussed. The PL is alright, we may be towards the bottom but at least we have our own mini-league. Just a shame it doesn't encompass the whole league is all. I really hope we give the FA Cup a proper go though. If not, then there's really no point in us being here. Its one thing that we can genuinely look at and hope to win (and fingers crossed Chelsea don't take it too seriously). Sure they will, being holders, being out the champions league, and not going to win the league... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 There is no ideal scenario for what I want. I want a successful side in the championship; but that then leads to the Premier League! In any case, I'm not really fussed. The PL is alright, we may be towards the bottom but at least we have our own mini-league. Just a shame it doesn't encompass the whole league is all. I really hope we give the FA Cup a proper go though. If not, then there's really no point in us being here. Its one thing that we can genuinely look at and hope to win (and fingers crossed Chelsea don't take it too seriously). Perhaps unsurprisingly, given our different views on the matter, I am happy for us to forget the FA Cup this year. I'm not saying this would be the case forever, but for me, staying in the PL is and should take far greater precedence in terms of importance. I would much rather we played some of the kids, got a beating then left it in the passed and focused solely on staying up. Whilst I still feel we have enough about us to stay up, it is going to be a long, hard slog. Once we are a bit more established, I would like to see us giving the FA Cup another run. Some of my favourite Saints moments link to the '03 Cup run, about the time I became a full-time Saints fan. I was at SMS for the 4-0 against Spurs, and the 'Hoddle, what's the score?!' chants, and I absolutely loved it. Would love to have all that again, plus, I live pretty close to Wembley, so would be great if we were to get there again . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 Sure they will, being holders, being out the champions league, and not going to win the league... It was more wishful thinking than anything else. Besides they may get complacent and think their second string is good enough to thrash us anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 Perhaps unsurprisingly, given our different views on the matter, I am happy for us to forget the FA Cup this year. I'm not saying this would be the case forever, but for me, staying in the PL is and should take far greater precedence in terms of importance. I would much rather we played some of the kids, got a beating then left it in the passed and focused solely on staying up. Whilst I still feel we have enough about us to stay up, it is going to be a long, hard slog. Once we are a bit more established, I would like to see us giving the FA Cup another run. Some of my favourite Saints moments link to the '03 Cup run, about the time I became a full-time Saints fan. I was at SMS for the 4-0 against Spurs, and the 'Hoddle, what's the score?!' chants, and I absolutely loved it. Would love to have all that again, plus, I live pretty close to Wembley, so would be great if we were to get there again . I see where you're coming from, and its a valid point. The flip side is that there's also the possibility that a cup run could galvanise the squad and give us something else to build upon. The JPT was often billed as a distraction but our form from February onwards was actually very good, it was a bit of a myth that we struggled because of cup games. I could see how it could easily go the other way though, so I take the point. Certainly if we stay up this year I'd hope there's never a case where we don't have the FA Cup as a priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 The Premiership is the best league in the world and naturally i'd rather Saints were in the top league. The thing is I imagine the few saying they prefer The Championship are basing that on last year rather then the other seasons we had there getting stuffed i.e getting relegated. That season was possibly the worst team I have seen us have ever. The football was awful and don't think there were any good momments at all. The best feeling I had when we were in the chamionship was surviving that last day against Sheff Utd. But in comparison to surviving in the PL the emotion was not even close. For me the games you win in the PL are more meaningful as they don't happen as often. If you win every week you tend to forget them as they don't stand out. Like we can all remember beating Utd 6-3 but do we remember beating Exeter on boxing day? And that is why I think the PL is better. Although we lost against the Manchester clubs when we went 1-2 up at Manchester City the chaos in that stand was amazing. We almost beat the champions and i'd much rather be doing that week out week in then win against a team that is of a lower level. Because a week or so later it is forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 The premier league is bad for these reasons Uncompetitive Full of happy clappy mong fans Greed and money oriented Full of arrogant c*nt players Over televised Full of mongs who go to games to see the other teams Over commercialised Extortionate ticket prices People without a clue about football try to talk to you about it Boring as f*ck hearing arm chair united/city/Liverpool fans talking about who they are going to sign run by *****s and sky who seem to think football began in 1992 Other than that its alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 The premier league is bad for these reasons Uncompetitive Full of happy clappy mong fans Greed and money oriented Full of arrogant c*nt players Over televised Full of mongs who go to games to see the other teams Over commercialised Extortionate ticket prices People without a clue about football try to talk to you about it Boring as f*ck hearing arm chair united/city/Liverpool fans talking about who they are going to sign run by *****s and sky who seem to think football began in 1992 Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 The premier league is bad for these reasons Uncompetitive Full of happy clappy mong fans Greed and money oriented Full of arrogant c*nt players Over televised Full of mongs who go to games to see the other teams Over commercialised Extortionate ticket prices People without a clue about football try to talk to you about it Boring as f*ck hearing arm chair united/city/Liverpool fans talking about who they are going to sign run by *****s and sky who seem to think football began in 1992 Other than that its alright. journos getting all excited about "mind games" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbojones10 Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 after some of the football ive witnessed this season and everything else that is bigger and better in the prem. i couldnt think of anything worse then going back to the champ, and watching average players in half empty stadiums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 Why is it that the Premier League is seen as the be-all and end-all? Personally I miss us winning most weeks with a genuine belief of success in the lower divisions. We're all told the Premier League is the 'Best Division in the World ' but is it really all that? Is testing ourselves against the best teams in the country and losing better than playing poorer teams and winning? I don't know myself, but taking the emotions felt whilst watching football surely all we want is to win? Only problem with this is that if we stayed in the championship with no ambition then we would not attract good players we would run out of money and eventually we would be mid to bottom table and not winning there either! (look at the likes of sheffield wednesday) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 Had we not got promoted from League One when we did, we may have lost Lallana, Morgan and Lambert. Had we not got promoted from the Championship last season, as well as potentially losing those three, we could've lost Cork too, and though we didn't know what effect he'd have had, even Shaw could've been snapped up, as Arsenal were interested. Being in the Premier League (and hopefully staying here) allows us to keep these players if we wish and then strengthening their team mates with even better. Rory Delap's record transfer would perhaps never have been broken had we not made it back to the Prem. Don't get me wrong, I love the Championship, I think it's exciting and competetive and is my favourite League. But football is a financial game these days, and there's only one place to be for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints Fan Dan Posted 17 December, 2012 Share Posted 17 December, 2012 Always the PL. We spent a total of 5 seasons in the Championship and the only good season was last season. The alternative to winning every game and getting promoted again is struggling in a fairly average league and we know how crappy that was. A win in the PL feels like 2 in the Championship and even when Saints are losing more than winning it's still a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilko Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 My two favourite years watching Saints were the two League One seasons. Premier League grounds are over-priced and the atmosphere is usually rubbish. Take me back to Brentford, Orient and Stockport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Loved seeing us climb from -10 in League One to the Premier League in 3 short seasons. 2005-2009....hmmm....not so much.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Had we not got promoted from League One when we did, we may have lost Lallana, Morgan and Lambert. Had we not got promoted from the Championship last season, as well as potentially losing those three, we could've lost Cork too, and though we didn't know what effect he'd have had, even Shaw could've been snapped up, as Arsenal were interested. Being in the Premier League (and hopefully staying here) allows us to keep these players if we wish and then strengthening their team mates with even better. Rory Delap's record transfer would perhaps never have been broken had we not made it back to the Prem. Don't get me wrong, I love the Championship, I think it's exciting and competetive and is my favourite League. But football is a financial game these days, and there's only one place to be for money. Which is exactly what it wrong with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 Means nothing, saints went there and could have won. Some other club will. It's just one season. No it doesn't mean nothing adrian. You may think otherwise, but could have won is a tiny bit different from actually winning. The two are not the same thing, they really aren't. I don't really want to lower my expectations of my side such that I'm 100% satisfied when they could have won. Carry on if that's good enough for you, by all means though. It's just not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 18 December, 2012 Share Posted 18 December, 2012 If it wasn't for the money that the club gets from the premier league i woul be happy to oscliate between the Championship and the premier league. However, next year the premier leaugue mone will be immnese and the longer you are in the Premier the easier it will be able tostay in. Norwich are a good example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 19 December, 2012 Share Posted 19 December, 2012 (edited) this is a very old debate subject isn't it ? would you prefer to be beating second-rate teams in the (second) division, or testing yourself against the best (in the World ?).although that's questionable I think there are more " world-wide " international players in the Prem. than in any other major league. I'm sure that players with ambition who want to play for their country and the Championship is not the right place to fulfill that dream PLUS of course the salaries are much higher in the Prem. IF we did play every season inthe Championship we wouldn't have such a good side, or ...we would be promoted every season..or fail to win the play-offs which means that we wouldn't be the "best side " and all the very best players would be sold off every season. SO ......do you want to be the "fourth-best " team in the Championship every year ?...Not for me. When we were promoted in 1966, we struggled from day 1..but managed to survive half-a dozen seasons..then came the 27 seasons after the second promotion..(1978) but rarely getting above half-way, except for the Fantastic McMemeny years in the early 1980's. The up side was ; those occasions .(and they were more a few), when we knocked over one of the top four... .and did it with style. For me, I'll happily take another 27 seasons in the lower reaches of the Prem. thank you .....unless Messers Cortese and Adkins have other ideas. after having wrirren this, I saw that it amply describes a side like ...CARDIFF (at least in the time that DJ was there.) Edited 20 December, 2012 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 19 December, 2012 Share Posted 19 December, 2012 It's effectively the case of the ninnies on here, proving what we all already no - they don't want Saints to win. We are in the Prem at present - wanting us to not be there means you want us to get relegated which equates to not winning games. Wanting us to be in the Champ/L1 - means we would not be winning that many games as we would be perpetual Play-Off fodder/losers or mid-table obscurity. Discussion over. let's see how many bites that gets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanW Posted 20 December, 2012 Share Posted 20 December, 2012 Has to be Premiership We all want to win every week, but we also want to see the team every week and those of us not living in the UK cannot do that unless we are in the top division. This. HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 20 December, 2012 Share Posted 20 December, 2012 I would suggest that the gap between the top 6 of the npc and the lower half of the prem is wider than most thought...despite this year being a pretty poor premier league year in terms of standards.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 21 December, 2012 Share Posted 21 December, 2012 (edited) I would suggest that the gap between the top 6 of the npc and the lower half of the prem is wider than most thought...despite this year being a pretty poor premier league year in terms of standards.... I've been writing just that phrase for several years past... ...for some newly-promoted clubs it's a case of " one small step for man, one giant step for....." .(no sorry, that one's been said before hasn't it ?) *the real difference is....if the promoted side has a stable squad who are just starting to play well when promoted, or has played itself out in the effort of getting there.... I think we were sort....of half-and-half. Edited 21 December, 2012 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
September Saint Posted 21 December, 2012 Share Posted 21 December, 2012 Premier League is the pinnacle of ambition. Championship is better fun when you're actually going to matches. IMO, of course. Whatever division Saints are in! We all want to win so the obvious manifestation of this is playing in the PL but did enjoy our time in the lower leagues (and would again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 21 December, 2012 Share Posted 21 December, 2012 I would suggest that the gap between the top 6 of the npc and the lower half of the prem is wider than most thought...despite this year being a pretty poor premier league year in terms of standards.... It's a hell of a lot better in quality than it has been in recent years IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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