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Saints finish mid-table


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By your own admission, you are only here to **** stir. I have no idea what you think, most of the time it's not what you post about, you're just on a wind up - usually to the detriment of the forum. For a long time now I have stopped reading your posts properly.

 

So you admit you don't read them, don't know what I think yet make sweeping statements about what I think and what I would do. Odd.

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Cork is clearly on of the four of the fourteen who have been a good signing.:rolleyes:

 

Yeah, but when you put your list up you somehow "forgot" to list the bad signings pre-Adkins.....or as you put it, the signings that aren´t good enough to make it to the first XI in PL...

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Yeah, but when you put your list up you somehow "forgot" to list the bad signings pre-Adkins.....or as you put it, the signings that aren´t good enough to make it to the first XI in PL...

 

Because the point, which you have clearly missed as usual, is that 7 of our first XI last week were here before Adkins wasabi we've spent c£20m in the last 3 windows on players who aren't good enough for the premier league at the moment.

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What would be your thoughts on Adkins IF in 3 seasons, Saints go from bottom of league 1 to a mid-table finish in top flight?

 

All Saints supporters who lived and breathed the "27 years" mostly only knew of mid-table mediocrity and occasionally escaping relegation by the skins of our teeth so what would de different? We are a small town team and that's about our place in the scheme of things. Of course, we'd all like things to be better than that but as long as we can banish the fear of relegation as a repetitive feature of every season then many would settle for that at least over the next few years.

 

Europe football doesn't interest me at all and by all accounts doesn't interest very many fans outside Manchester & London judging by attendance's and team selections. Ok so I'm an older fan whose boyhood memories are full of Magpies and Throstles and Wolves who were once great teams but I still get far more kicks from the anticipation of a Wearsiders visit than Steaua Bucharest or Levski Sofias or any number of anonymous football teams from Europe's minor leagues.

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Because the point, which you have clearly missed as usual, is that 7 of our first XI last week were here before Adkins wasabi we've spent c£20m in the last 3 windows on players who aren't good enough for the premier league at the moment.

 

I might be missing your very strange points yes.....perhaps because I dont understand why a player outside the starting XI automatically is considered not good enough for the premier league.....

 

Does that go for all teams in the league??

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I might be missing your very strange points yes.....perhaps because I dont understand why a player outside the starting XI automatically is considered not good enough for the premier league.....

 

Does that go for all teams in the league??

 

How any players outside of ours, right now, not in the future, are?

 

And you still haven't answer who have been our most consistent performers this season.

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For me it´s Cork followed by Clyne and Fonte.

 

But what I dont agree on is the way you judge signings by if they were picked in the XI this last weekend.

That´s not the way I judge signings, and therefore I earlier put my view down on every player on the list you made...

And by the way, you never answered on that ;)

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For me it´s Cork followed by Clyne and Fonte.

 

But what I dont agree on is the way you judge signings by if they were picked in the XI this last weekend.

That´s not the way I judge signings, and therefore I earlier put my view down on every player on the list you made...

And by the way, you never answered on that ;)

 

Apart from Ramirez and Davis it's been the same starting team for the last 5 games. Clearly Nige thinks its his best side barring injuries. So you don't think Puncheon, Schniderlin, Lambert and Lallana have made a significant impact this season?

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Well it depends on how long list I have to make....but all those are good signings yes.

 

But that´s not what I first reacted about, it was the way of determining signings the way you did cause I dont think that every signing is about getting in to the starting lineup NOW, some signings will always be squad signings and other will always be for the future cause that´s the only way a club can and should do their work..

 

Well, we can agree that we dont agree I presume... :)

Tome for me to hit the sack, always fun to discuss things, espacially when all people dont share your own view.

G´night!

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You mean players like Rickie Lambert? Like Jack Cork? Like Morgan Schneiderlin? All signed while we were in the lower leagues. And we've added to that with Jason Puncheon, Nathaniel Clyne and Jose Fonte. That's more than half our first team made up from players from the NPC or below. Hardly strange.

 

It is most definitely rare. None of Lambert, Schneiderlin, Puncheon or Fonte would have been good enough for the PL when we first signed them. They have grown into Premier League players in their time here, and for that the credit should be shared by Pardew and Adkins (although in my view Adkins should take most of the plaudits). My point was that it is not easy to cherry-pick signings who can a) get you out of the Championship and b) not then struggle in the Premier League. Hooiveld, Fox and Sharp all fall into category a) but not b). Hence their falling out of favour: they have done what they were brought in to do, and now we must move on.

 

We have risen up the leagues faster than we expected, and therefore many of the players we signed in the last 18 months have become somewhat redundant to us; victims of their own success in many ways. I just hope SFC doesn't become a victim of its own rapid success come May.

 

I maintain that it is foolish to completely write of Mayuka, Rodriguez, Davis as wasted money; there is no reason to conclude that they cannot become valuable members of the squad in the coming seasons (although I myself have some doubts over Davis, he doesn't look quite good enough for the modern day PL in my opinion).

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It is most definitely rare. None of Lambert, Schneiderlin, Puncheon or Fonte would have been good enough for the PL when we first signed them. They have grown into Premier League players in their time here, and for that the credit should be shared by Pardew and Adkins (although in my view Adkins should take most of the plaudits). My point was that it is not easy to cherry-pick signings who can a) get you out of the Championship and b) not then struggle in the Premier League. Hooiveld, Fox and Sharp all fall into category a) but not b). Hence their falling out of favour: they have done what they were brought in to do, and now we must move on.

 

Fonte was playing top half championship for Palace and getting decent plaudits before we (somehow) got him in League 1. Lambert; God knows what he's been doing playing lower leagues for so long, he's a cut above and it seems like diet and a proper exercise programme more than anything have sorted him out. Puncheon played PL for Blackpool before us, how you can say we've developed him is amazing. No, its perhaps not easy to pick players like that. But neither is it totally strange. Have a look at Norwich, they've also still got players they picked up in L1. Its not as bizarre and rare as you are making out.

 

We have risen up the leagues faster than we expected, and therefore many of the players we signed in the last 18 months have become somewhat redundant to us; victims of their own success in many ways. I just hope SFC doesn't become a victim of its own rapid success come May.

 

I maintain that it is foolish to completely write of Mayuka, Rodriguez, Davis as wasted money; there is no reason to conclude that they cannot become valuable members of the squad in the coming seasons (although I myself have some doubts over Davis, he doesn't look quite good enough for the modern day PL in my opinion).

Of those 3 I'd say Davis is the transfer I have the least problem with. He cost next to nothing, has PL experience and will be a very good squad addtion. The other two cost £10M and offer nothing except something from the bench. Simply not good enough for a club like us that require more of an immediate impact this season.

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Fonte was playing top half championship for Palace and getting decent plaudits before we (somehow) got him in League 1. Lambert; God knows what he's been doing playing lower leagues for so long, he's a cut above and it seems like diet and a proper exercise programme more than anything have sorted him out. Puncheon played PL for Blackpool before us, how you can say we've developed him is amazing. No, its perhaps not easy to pick players like that. But neither is it totally strange. Have a look at Norwich, they've also still got players they picked up in L1. Its not as bizarre and rare as you are making out.

 

We have risen up the leagues faster than we expected, and therefore many of the players we signed in the last 18 months have become somewhat redundant to us; victims of their own success in many ways. I just hope SFC doesn't become a victim of its own rapid success come May.

 

 

Of those 3 I'd say Davis is the transfer I have the least problem with. He cost next to nothing, has PL experience and will be a very good squad addtion. The other two cost £10M and offer nothing except something from the bench. Simply not good enough for a club like us that require more of an immediate impact this season.

 

Fonte was mid-table NPC at best at Palace, they never threatened promotion back then. He has improved significantly since 2010. Lambert, even when coaxed to fine fitness in L1, wasn't half the player he is now; he offers so much more now than he did - it is a pleasure to watch. Puncheon contributed next to nothing in the Premier League for Blackpool/QPR when he was there last; the man management of Nigel and Nicola has brought this excellent form out of him.

 

Norwich's example for bringing through lower league players is special. I was ready to write them off this year, I thought they would struggle with classic second season syndrome: new manager and lower division players. How wrong I was; the likes of Snodgrass, Pilkington and Holt have continued to perform despite the loss of momentum/manager. We should aspire to the same level of commitment and intensity in the coming years.

 

Re. Davis: From what I have gleaned from the forum he is one of our highest earners. I appreciate his attitude but I have yet to see any real PL ability to match said earnings. I would love to be proven wrong. Mayuka was excellent when introduced vs Villa and Spurs, so forgive me for not writing him off after Leeds in the league cup; I would hope we make signings on the basis of something more substantial than a few good games in front of our scouts. He is one for the future. I always wanted us to sign Rodriguez rather than Sharp last January, but it has worked out very well; I think he has a great deal of potential - it is Nigel's job to realise that in the coming months/years. Once again, I see no reason to write him off now.

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Fonte was mid-table NPC at best at Palace, they never threatened promotion back then. He has improved significantly since 2010. Lambert, even when coaxed to fine fitness in L1, wasn't half the player he is now; he offers so much more now than he did - it is a pleasure to watch. Puncheon contributed next to nothing in the Premier League for Blackpool/QPR when he was there last; the man management of Nigel and Nicola has brought this excellent form out of him.

 

Norwich's example for bringing through lower league players is special. I was ready to write them off this year, I thought they would struggle with classic second season syndrome: new manager and lower division players. How wrong I was; the likes of Snodgrass, Pilkington and Holt have continued to perform despite the loss of momentum/manager. We should aspire to the same level of commitment and intensity in the coming years.

 

Re. Davis: From what I have gleaned from the forum he is one of our highest earners. I appreciate his attitude but I have yet to see any real PL ability to match said earnings. I would love to be proven wrong. Mayuka was excellent when introduced vs Villa and Spurs, so forgive me for not writing him off after Leeds in the league cup; I would hope we make signings on the basis of something more substantial than a few good games in front of our scouts. He is one for the future. I always wanted us to sign Rodriguez rather than Sharp last January, but it has worked out very well; I think he has a great deal of potential - it is Nigel's job to realise that in the coming months/years. Once again, I see no reason to write him off now.

 

Well lets get your Fonte facts sorted out first, shall we. Palace finished 5th in his first season with them (arrived midway through the season and played pretty much every game from then on). They qualified for the playoffs. That we got him was as much as anything due to Palace's financial implosion, and it was amazing that he took a backwards career step when he could easily have gone the other way. Your Puncheon statement I just find baffling; if the way Puncheon was bombed out on loan and made to train with the kids is an example of man-management and how to get the best out of players, then we'll have to leave that one there. Not that Puncheon didn't dserve it, but claiming it as a masterstroke from NA and NC in terms of player development is bizarre.

 

Its odd how you say plucking players while in the lower leagues is really rare but then in the same post say that Norwich are special for doing exactly that. To those you've already listed you can add Wes Hoolahan, John Ruddy, Russell Martin, plus perhaps one or two others. All signed in the lower league, all capable of stepping up. So I do find it really odd that you think its really rare for clubs to buy players that can step up. It happens all the time. And in ours and Norich's cases, including some players acquired while in the third division. It happens.

 

As for your last parapgraph, i think that's the second time you've accused others of writing off some of our signings. I'm not doing that; but more pointing out that, in our particular case at that point in time, £10M on Mayuka and Rodriguez would have been psent much more wisely.

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What would be your thoughts on Adkins IF in 3 seasons, Saints go from bottom of league 1 to a mid-table finish in top flight?

 

Same as they are now, heck of a job, nice bloke.

 

If you'd asked me in May 2010 if I'd have taken 17th in the Prem in May 2013 I'd have had your arm off, and we'd already won the JPT and shown we were a likely 2011 League One top side by then.

 

If you'd asked me in September 2009 if we could even BE in the Prem 3 years later I'd have removed most of your bodily parts.

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Well lets get your Fonte facts sorted out first, shall we. Palace finished 5th in his first season with them (arrived midway through the season and played pretty much every game from then on). They qualified for the playoffs. That we got him was as much as anything due to Palace's financial implosion, and it was amazing that he took a backwards career step when he could easily have gone the other way. Your Puncheon statement I just find baffling; if the way Puncheon was bombed out on loan and made to train with the kids is an example of man-management and how to get the best out of players, then we'll have to leave that one there. Not that Puncheon didn't dserve it, but claiming it as a masterstroke from NA and NC in terms of player development is bizarre.

 

Its odd how you say plucking players while in the lower leagues is really rare but then in the same post say that Norwich are special for doing exactly that. To those you've already listed you can add Wes Hoolahan, John Ruddy, Russell Martin, plus perhaps one or two others. All signed in the lower league, all capable of stepping up. So I do find it really odd that you think its really rare for clubs to buy players that can step up. It happens all the time. And in ours and Norich's cases, including some players acquired while in the third division. It happens.

 

As for your last parapgraph, i think that's the second time you've accused others of writing off some of our signings. I'm not doing that; but more pointing out that, in our particular case at that point in time, £10M on Mayuka and Rodriguez would have been psent much more wisely.

 

Obviously my final paragraph was only aimed at those on this thread who have actually suggested Mayuka/Rodriguez signings were a waste if money.

 

I can accept what you are saying about Fonte. It was a massive surprise when we tempted him to drop a division, he has been a vital signing for the club despite going off the boil slightly last season. I am hoping that he proves to be one of those players who is capable of making the step up despite it being relatively late in his career to do so. Puncheon's career has not exactly been a massive success story before these last few months. He was excellent for a while under Pardew (particularly home games vs Leeds and Huddersfield), but for whatever reason never settled and never particularly impressed when loaned to the PL. NC and NA thought it best to get him out of the club, hence the harsh measures you have alluded to. Since then he has apologised and was given a second chance, and was slowly reintegrated into the group. So yes, I do call that very good man management.

 

In response to your second point, what exactly is confusing you? I have said it is rare to be able to pick the right players from lower leagues and make it work, and then I have praised Norwich as 'special' for being able to do so. Because it is a rare feat, and difficult to do. Usually a thriving PL club requires a core group of established players from europe's top divisions - I can't think of another side doing well in this league that have as many young players, recently acquired from the NPC and below. It is often a recipe for relegation, but they are pulling it off very well with a few good additions in the form of Bassong and Tettey. I was just expressing surprise.

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What would be your thoughts on Adkins IF in 3 seasons, Saints go from bottom of league 1 to a mid-table finish in top flight?[/QUOTE]

 

 

....suits me fine.

We were there.... or there abouts.... for 27 seasons before. I'd be happy with that....or are you suggesting we take a leaf out of Chelsea's book and sack him as soon as we bomb out of the Champions League?

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What would be your thoughts on Adkins IF in 3 seasons, Saints go from bottom of league 1 to a mid-table finish in top flight?[/QUOTE]

 

 

....suits me fine.

We were there.... or there abouts.... for 27 seasons before. I'd be happy with that....or are you suggesting we take a leaf out of Chelsea's book and sack him as soon as we bomb out of the Champions League?

 

I think he's an excellent manager and the teamwork ethics and unity at the club are a great credit to his management style.

 

I believe he will be a long term success at our great club.

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