Plastic fans=Middle Class?

[VectisSaint]

For lots of Surrey residents Chelsea is their nearest team.

Surely Fulham is nearer Surrey, as it is on the bank of the Thames (and of course ignoring non-PL teams that are actually in what was the County of Surrey).

[Turkish]

Surely Fulham is nearer Surrey, as it is on the bank of the Thames (and of course ignoring non-PL teams that are actually in what was the County of Surrey).

 

Isn't Surrey our catchment area?

[VectisSaint]

so who should ppl in Surrey support? I cant think of a stable and consistent league club between Chelsea/Fulham, reading and saints....

Crystal Palace, Charlton, AFC Wimbledon. I'm sure I've missed someone.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

so who should ppl in Surrey support? I cant think of a stable and consistent league club between Chelsea/Fulham, reading and saints....

 

Brentford maybe..? I've been to see them a couple of times (I'm North Surrey).

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Surely Fulham is nearer Surrey, as it is on the bank of the Thames (and of course ignoring non-PL teams that are actually in what was the County of Surrey).

 

Surrey is pretty big. For example, Palace are in Surrey aren't they being in (near enough) Croydon?

[Saint86]

I am very confused - In order to be a regular spectator at St Mary's you are by definition not working class? I admit that I have grown up post working class/middle class war, but surely to have £30 a week to splash on leisure doesn't quite seem to be working class to me. That or you are spending peoples taxes (benefits) on tickets and tea/beer - whatever is your fancy?

 

Now you can work hard for a living, but if you've got a bit of cash as a result you aren't middle class surely?

[JackanorySFC]

I was recently reading an interview with Jonathan Meades (that's how I roll - he's also a Saints supporter) and he was discussing social class and the so called north / south divide. He made the following observation about Liverpool and Southampton in the 1970s which made me smile:

 

"Oh, I don't think the South is a paradise, that's a complete nonsense. I have a friend who grew up in Liverpool 8 above a pub and he went to university in Southampton and he said that Liverpool will kick you but then say, ‘Sorry wack.' But Southampton will just kick you. We're talking about places that are hard, without any doubt; especially port towns."

 

There was also an interview with Bob Paisley in the early 80s when he compared the port/football demographics of Liverpool and Southampton. I can remember several occasions in the 70s and 80s when northern and London clubs came to Southampton for some bumpkin bashing and got the shock of their lives, due to the docks being on short time or catching large contingents of local nutters in certain pubs by accident. There were also away games where all the local faces plus entourages would show up, all ages, in large numbers, the Brighton FA Cup away game in 1986 sticks in the mind. Anyway, in terms of the original post, in my opinion certain clubs are irrevocably linked to the social identity of their city, and where the city has a history of toil / industry you will have a hardcore of rooted working class tribal support, even if they don't go to matches. Not sure what Reading is built on apart from chocolate and Oscar Wilde, Brighton nudism and dirty weekends - perhaps there is something in this...

 

True, when working in London most thought of Southampton as a working class, Port City that was a little backwards. I took a load down for a weekend in Bournemouth Fri, then Southampton Sat. They were shocked at how different both cities were - especially the lad from Bermondsey that asked: "where's ya beach fella, it's all cranes and ships - I want sand if I'm at the coast". Didn't have the ehart to send him to Weston Shore...

 

Basically the City of Southampton itself is a proudly Labour voting, working class place basically made up of Council Estates and terraced houses that avoided ze Germans and/ or 60's slum clearance along with Bitterne, Bassett and parts of "Upper" Shirley thrown in. The areas around it like Hamble to the east, New Forest to the west and Winch to the north are all pretty affluent and that's where a lot of our support comes from. A reason why I think where we are is such a quality place to live.

[JackanorySFC]

As for Chelsea, their "traditional" support comes from the rather more punchy parts of Surrey. Leatherhead, Feltham etc. Surbiton for example is a massive Chelsea area. Only post Abramovich have the Weybidge etc areas of Surrey come out the woodwork. Same as a lot of Spurs support comes from Herts, and West Ham Essex etc.

[PhilippineSaint]

I am very confused - In order to be a regular spectator at St Mary's you are by definition not working class? I admit that I have grown up post working class/middle class war, but surely to have £30 a week to splash on leisure doesn't quite seem to be working class to me. That or you are spending peoples taxes (benefits) on tickets and tea/beer - whatever is your fancy?

 

Now you can work hard for a living, but if you've got a bit of cash as a result you aren't middle class surely?

 

As nobody has defined what and who working Middle and Upper Class people are with there sub classes it is going to be very difficult to come to any conclusion as to what type of people attend St Mary's or any other ground. A lot of Pikeys are very rich because they never pay tax and collect benefit for as much as possible so as they have expendable income they are middle class ?

[Saint Luke]

I'm middle class, live in Surrey now, grew up in Winchester, was born in St Bartholomews in London (makes me a cockney - but don't talk like it)

Where do I fit in? I also don't have money each week to go to a footie match or the time what with traipsing my son around to play football at the weekends

[PhilippineSaint]

I'm middle class, live in Surrey now, grew up in Winchester, was born in St Bartholomews in London (makes me a cockney - but don't talk like it)

Where do I fit in? I also don't have money each week to go to a footie match or the time what with traipsing my son around to play football at the weekends

 

How do you know you are middle class? Do you have a job? does your housemaid live in? what is the criteria for being middle lower working or upper class I am just bursting to know?

[CB Saint]

How do you know you are middle class? Do you have a job? does your housemaid live in? what is the criteria for being middle lower working or upper class I am just bursting to know?

 

This definition might help

 

The working class is sometimes separated into those who are employed but lacking financial security, and an underclass—those who are long-term unemployed and/or homeless, especially those receiving welfare from the state

[PhilippineSaint]

If you employ somebody are you working class if you also have a job ?

 

My housemaid also employs a housemaid, as I have a job are we all working class or only the housemaids maid?

we all watch football by the way so should we stand sit or get the executive boxes?

[solentstars]

This definition might help

 

The working class is sometimes separated into those who are employed but lacking financial security, and an underclass—those who are long-term unemployed and/or homeless, especially those receiving welfare from the state

when i first went to football working class fans use to be in manufacturing industry,dockers,miners, builders,chippies,plasterers, etc, and lived on council estates or flats and was solid old labour in those days the type which is derided by the modern football fan at st marys nowadays and society in general. football is middle class and has far has i,m concerned will never have the passion of the old days.

[JPTCount]

Crystal Palace, Charlton, AFC Wimbledon. I'm sure I've missed someone.

 

palace and charlton are both SE postcodes, and east of a direct line between shouthampton and fulham, so they are not between reading, chelsea and southampton.

 

AFC wimbledon are not a stable and consistent club, they play at someone else's non-league ground, i've been there, it's ****, you have to stand.

[scotty]

Nothing says "Middle Class" quite like this...

 

[Barry Sanchez]

In essence it's groups of well dressed, clued up lads. Don't confuse this with groups of lads looking for a fight.

 

What it isn't is

Blokes dressed as clowns and In gimp suits

Scruffy blokes singing different songs to the same tune over and over again

Fat blokes in replica shirts clapping like coked up seals

Soppy tarts that take their birds to games

Blokes that rush home after the game to watch X factor

 

There are small pockets of the top group about but the vast majority of our fans fall into the second.

 

My man.

[adrian lord]

I was recently reading an interview with Jonathan Meades (that's how I roll - he's also a Saints supporter) and he was discussing social class and the so called north / south divide. He made the following observation about Liverpool and Southampton in the 1970s which made me smile:

 

"Oh, I don't think the South is a paradise, that's a complete nonsense. I have a friend who grew up in Liverpool 8 above a pub and he went to university in Southampton and he said that Liverpool will kick you but then say, ‘Sorry wack.' But Southampton will just kick you. We're talking about places that are hard, without any doubt; especially port towns."

 

There was also an interview with Bob Paisley in the early 80s when he compared the port/football demographics of Liverpool and Southampton. I can remember several occasions in the 70s and 80s when northern and London clubs came to Southampton for some bumpkin bashing and got the shock of their lives, due to the docks being on short time or catching large contingents of local nutters in certain pubs by accident. There were also away games where all the local faces plus entourages would show up, all ages, in large numbers, the Brighton FA Cup away game in 1986 sticks in the mind. Anyway, in terms of the original post, in my opinion certain clubs are irrevocably linked to the social identity of their city, and where the city has a history of toil / industry you will have a hardcore of rooted working class tribal support, even if they don't go to matches. Not sure what Reading is built on apart from chocolate and Oscar Wilde, Brighton nudism and dirty weekends - perhaps there is something in this...

 

Best post of 2012.

[Charlie Wayman]

For lots of Surrey residents Chelsea is their nearest team.

 

Nah! The whole of Surrey is closer to Fulham and Palace.

[sotonjoe]

Did anyone see the group at the he game on Saturday dressed as Santa and his reindeer? One of them looked just like Turkish from behind.

[This Charming Man]

Did anyone see the group at the he game on Saturday dressed as Santa and his reindeer? One of them looked just like Turkish from behind.

 

You should know that view better than most.

[VectisSaint]

palace and charlton are both SE postcodes, and east of a direct line between shouthampton and fulham, so they are not between reading, chelsea and southampton.

 

AFC wimbledon are not a stable and consistent club, they play at someone else's non-league ground, i've been there, it's ****, you have to stand.

Your question was "who should ppl in Surrey support" (I assume ppl means people), so the answer Palace, Charlton and AFC Wimbledon was perfectly correct. since the clubs are (or at least historically were) in Surrey. If you read your own post you will understand the answer given.

[Rasiak-9-]

In essence it's groups of well dressed, clued up lads. Don't confuse this with groups of lads looking for a fight.

 

What it isn't is

Blokes dressed as clowns and In gimp suits

Scruffy blokes singing different songs to the same tune over and over again

Fat blokes in replica shirts clapping like coked up seals

Soppy tarts that take their birds to games

Blokes that rush home after the game to watch X factor

 

There are small pockets of the top group about but the vast majority of our fans fall into the second.

 

I didn't expect to but I actually mostly agree with you.

[Turkish]

As St Mary's has no terracing is that possibly why?

 

Another clueless comment.

[adrian lord]

What we need is a healthy mix of grizzly older veterans from the 70s, 80s and early 90s who by now will be late 30s to 50+ (and earning good money for some serious designer clobber, watches, nice motors, and all the other trimmings) giving a fine example to the younger generation of lads, who themselves will take the culture and fashion on, modernise it and develop it into the future.

 

Class isn't necessarily correlated with plasticity. Plasticity and general mongdom are both no respecters of class boundaries.

[Miltonaggro]

What we need is a healthy mix of grizzly older veterans from the 70s, 80s and early 90s who by now will be late 30s to 50+ (and earning good money for some serious designer clobber, watches, nice motors, and all the other trimmings) giving a fine example to the younger generation of lads, who themselves will take the culture and fashion on, modernise it and develop it into the future.

 

Class isn't necessarily correlated with plasticity. Plasticity and general mongdom are both no respecters of class boundaries.

 

You are right Adrian,

[JPTCount]

Your question was "who should ppl in Surrey support" (I assume ppl means people), so the answer Palace, Charlton and AFC Wimbledon was perfectly correct. since the clubs are (or at least historically were) in Surrey. If you read your own post you will understand the answer given.

 

and i also added that i couldn't think of a club in the area between chelsea, reading and saints. yes, there's a small part of surrey south of croydon, but most of it is either side the a3 going south, from kingston to liphook. charlton is nowhere near surrey anyway.

 

actual location and location based on connectivity are two very different things, having spent alot of the past 6 years living in and around kingston and wimbledon i can tell you that chelsea definitely feels like the closest club. croydon is a **** to get to as you have to go to clapham to go back on urself, or get a 2 hour bus, chelsea is quicker to get to. and the valley is east london, it takes for ****ing ever to get to east london. going on experience, i have travelled to four grounds from sw london, the bridge, SMS, WHL and wembley, and that is the order of convenience respectively, both travelling to and from. we can not all travel like as the crow does, and perception is also added in to time. Exact proximity is not the only factor to how close someone is to something. we live in an age where transport is incredible, not only day to day but families are much more widespread too, and alot of ppl have historic connections to places, or even newer ones. my missus is a spurs fan, but she was born and raised in the midlands, but because her mums side of the family are all spurs, and still all live in norf. these links are also pushed upon us, even if it is sub conscious. for me chelsea are my second team as my unlce is a season ticket holder at the bridge, and used to always see a few games a year, whenever his mate couldn't make it. (actually going full circle here as he grew up in woking while chelsea were the closest, top performing club to him)

 

wimbledon is now actually closer to surrey as they play in norbiton, but they are still only in league 2. this brings me to my next point, and that alot of ppl support their local premiership team, some take it to the extreme and support a current champion, classic 'glory hunting' even if they may support a local team but its hard to follow lower leagues, especially if football isn't your life. it also makes following the season more exciting for even for those who do take it that seriously, and enjoy entertainment over commitment. and why cant you follow your two local sides, especially if they don't compete. I know a guy who is from fleetwood and has season tickets for both them and blackpool, and has supported both clubs his whole lifetime.

 

and finally there is the non conformist among us, many ppl support a team just to be different, and just because some ppl are like that.

 

as you can see, there are so many more reasons to supporting a football club than just where you live, or were brought up. the tribalism and thuggery that goes with this actually interests me quite alot, especially as in anything else as our allegiances and preferences are based on real judgement and opinion and not just a matter of proximity. football is family entertainment now, yet the 80s hooliganism mentality still lingers. we also live in a largely classless society through capitalism, even if you are middle class, or working class we all live in the same areas, drink in the same bars, buy the same phones, you can't tell from looking at someone what they do or how much they earn anymore. and ultimately why the **** should it matter to you how 'plastic' anyone is, a good mate of mine, whos from surrey, and supports saints first, then reading second, actually wanted us to draw last weekend, of course i ripped him for it but i'm not gonna fight over it, or think any less of him because he has an affinity for both teams.

 

let's kick neanderthalism out of football

[Miltonaggro]

What we need is a healthy mix of grizzly older veterans from the 70s, 80s and early 90s who by now will be late 30s to 50+ (and earning good money for some serious designer clobber, watches, nice motors, and all the other trimmings) giving a fine example to the younger generation of lads, who themselves will take the culture and fashion on, modernise it and develop it into the future.

 

Class isn't necessarily correlated with plasticity. Plasticity and general mongdom are both no respecters of class boundaries.

 

I'll try that again:

 

You are right Adrian, the concept of the 'plastic fan' is not necessarily related to a class construct it's more about culture. In the good old days, or the bad old days if you believe FA quangos and David Mellor, football 'culture' was predominantly working class, as was playing football in the evenings and at the weekends. Football was very much linked to youth culture, so when I started going as a kid in the late seventies there was good smattering of skinheads and architypal older 'bovver boys' (BR, FW, Fords donkey jackets and work boots everywhere), which then flowed into the casuals in the eighties - designer labels but still very much working class in the main in terms of background and job - the 'family club' existed, but only in certain areas of the Dell. Post Taylor and Premier it's a sea change, and moving from the Dell certainly decimated the demographic. Clubs that seem to have held on to the old school fans seem to be the ones that have stayed in historical stadia and thus the areas loyal to them - this would explain the nature of Spurs and West Ham support, which retains a core of grizzly locals and their off-spring. Obviously Saints had no choice but to move as the Dell was so restricted, but when I bump into a lot of people that I used to go home and away with their choice is augmented by not liking the 'new ground', or simply not liking 'modern football, modern footballers, or indeed modern fans' seldom money. Youth culture seems to be dead, so it's unlikely that terrace culture can be resurrected in a meaningful way...

[Barry Sanchez]

and i also added that i couldn't think of a club in the area between chelsea, reading and saints. yes, there's a small part of surrey south of croydon, but most of it is either side the a3 going south, from kingston to liphook. charlton is nowhere near surrey anyway.

 

actual location and location based on connectivity are two very different things, having spent alot of the past 6 years living in and around kingston and wimbledon i can tell you that chelsea definitely feels like the closest club. croydon is a **** to get to as you have to go to clapham to go back on urself, or get a 2 hour bus, chelsea is quicker to get to. and the valley is east london, it takes for ****ing ever to get to east london. going on experience, i have travelled to four grounds from sw london, the bridge, SMS, WHL and wembley, and that is the order of convenience respectively, both travelling to and from. we can not all travel like as the crow does, and perception is also added in to time. Exact proximity is not the only factor to how close someone is to something. we live in an age where transport is incredible, not only day to day but families are much more widespread too, and alot of ppl have historic connections to places, or even newer ones. my missus is a spurs fan, but she was born and raised in the midlands, but because her mums side of the family are all spurs, and still all live in norf. these links are also pushed upon us, even if it is sub conscious. for me chelsea are my second team as my unlce is a season ticket holder at the bridge, and used to always see a few games a year, whenever his mate couldn't make it. (actually going full circle here as he grew up in woking while chelsea were the closest, top performing club to him)

 

wimbledon is now actually closer to surrey as they play in norbiton, but they are still only in league 2. this brings me to my next point, and that alot of ppl support their local premiership team, some take it to the extreme and support a current champion, classic 'glory hunting' even if they may support a local team but its hard to follow lower leagues, especially if football isn't your life. it also makes following the season more exciting for even for those who do take it that seriously, and enjoy entertainment over commitment. and why cant you follow your two local sides, especially if they don't compete. I know a guy who is from fleetwood and has season tickets for both them and blackpool, and has supported both clubs his whole lifetime.

 

and finally there is the non conformist among us, many ppl support a team just to be different, and just because some ppl are like that.

 

as you can see, there are so many more reasons to supporting a football club than just where you live, or were brought up. the tribalism and thuggery that goes with this actually interests me quite alot, especially as in anything else as our allegiances and preferences are based on real judgement and opinion and not just a matter of proximity. football is family entertainment now, yet the 80s hooliganism mentality still lingers. we also live in a largely classless society through capitalism, even if you are middle class, or working class we all live in the same areas, drink in the same bars, buy the same phones, you can't tell from looking at someone what they do or how much they earn anymore. and ultimately why the **** should it matter to you how 'plastic' anyone is, a good mate of mine, whos from surrey, and supports saints first, then reading second, actually wanted us to draw last weekend, of course i ripped him for it but i'm not gonna fight over it, or think any less of him because he has an affinity for both teams.

 

let's kick neanderthalism out of football

 

Lets kick "entertainment" "product" and "plastic" out of football.

[Barry Sanchez]

I'll try that again:

 

You are right Adrian, the concept of the 'plastic fan' is not necessarily related to a class construct it's more about culture. In the good old days, or the bad old days if you believe FA quangos and David Mellor, football 'culture' was predominantly working class, as was playing football in the evenings and at the weekends. Football was very much linked to youth culture, so when I started going as a kid in the late seventies there was good smattering of skinheads and architypal older 'bovver boys' (BR, FW, Fords donkey jackets and work boots everywhere), which then flowed into the casuals in the eighties - designer labels but still very much working class in the main in terms of background and job - the 'family club' existed, but only in certain areas of the Dell. Post Taylor and Premier it's a sea change, and moving from the Dell certainly decimated the demographic. Clubs that seem to have held on to the old school fans seem to be the ones that have stayed in historical stadia and thus the areas loyal to them - this would explain the nature of Spurs and West Ham support, which retains a core of grizzly locals and their off-spring. Obviously Saints had no choice but to move as the Dell was so restricted, but when I bump into a lot of people that I used to go home and away with their choice is augmented by not liking the 'new ground', or simply not liking 'modern football, modern footballers, or indeed modern fans' seldom money. Youth culture seems to be dead, so it's unlikely that terrace culture can be resurrected in a meaningful way...

 

Moving from the Dell has taken an awful lot from our club, I am grateful sometime I dont live there and see them as much as I used to, fans with clubs looking at relocating beware.

[Miltonaggro]

Moving from the Dell has taken an awful lot from our club, I am grateful sometime I dont live there and see them as much as I used to, fans with clubs looking at relocating beware.

 

Par for the course, Barry, it's progress. It would take a Mad Max scenario to return it to the way it was, Portsmuff are attempting their own doomsday programme at the moment so it will be an interesting test case - down there it's less plastic, more cling film wrapped dog turd...

[Saint Fan CaM]

Nobody really knows what working class and middle class means now - these two classes have been melded together due to a number of factors many of which originated from Thatchers 80's. The difference in days gone by was that working class were the people on the shopfloor or at the 'coalface' metaphorically speaking. As an example, I cannot imagine a qualified gas engineer/fitter considering him/her self as a working class individual - they earn more a lot more than most office workers I would imagine, drive BMW's or equivelent, go on at least one foreign holiday a year and their kids enjoy the best life has to offer.

 

Today IMO we have the following social classes: the Poor/Homeless, the Financially Secure, the Affluent. You will never see the lowest class in a league football stadium now.

[ericb]

I'll try that again:

 

You are right Adrian, the concept of the 'plastic fan' is not necessarily related to a class construct it's more about culture. In the good old days, or the bad old days if you believe FA quangos and David Mellor, football 'culture' was predominantly working class, as was playing football in the evenings and at the weekends. Football was very much linked to youth culture, so when I started going as a kid in the late seventies there was good smattering of skinheads and architypal older 'bovver boys' (BR, FW, Fords donkey jackets and work boots everywhere), which then flowed into the casuals in the eighties - designer labels but still very much working class in the main in terms of background and job - the 'family club' existed, but only in certain areas of the Dell. Post Taylor and Premier it's a sea change, and moving from the Dell certainly decimated the demographic. Clubs that seem to have held on to the old school fans seem to be the ones that have stayed in historical stadia and thus the areas loyal to them - this would explain the nature of Spurs and West Ham support, which retains a core of grizzly locals and their off-spring. Obviously Saints had no choice but to move as the Dell was so restricted, but when I bump into a lot of people that I used to go home and away with their choice is augmented by not liking the 'new ground', or simply not liking 'modern football, modern footballers, or indeed modern fans' seldom money. Youth culture seems to be dead, so it's unlikely that terrace culture can be resurrected in a meaningful way...

 

Brilliant post

[JPTCount]

money is here to stay, if its that big an issue cant u just follow totten? or eastlegh? or does the tribalism run too deep. you see i love my club despite the fans i dont like, and i put up with the **** they do, but some of the stuff i've seen in the last two years at sms is actually disgusting. season ticket waving, the sly comments about leaving early, and some of the verbal abuse handed out to families with very small kids, and i was appauled at the abuse patrick bamford got last season, a 17yo wonderkid who played a blinder, scored a stunning goal and another 3. banter is part of the game, but ppl take it too far, i'm all for chanting "robbie savage, what a ******" but ppl just take it too far. and there are 32000 ppl at the stadium most matchdays atm, to think they are all gonna be like you and share your beliefs and dress sense is just beyond stupid. at least when the plastics come to a game they actually come to watch the football.

[Barry Sanchez]

Par for the course, Barry, it's progress. It would take a Mad Max scenario to return it to the way it was, Portsmuff are attempting their own doomsday programme at the moment so it will be an interesting test case - down there it's less plastic, more cling film wrapped dog turd...

 

True, safe standing may bring an atmosphere missing for many years, football is not what is was, theres good and bad in that.

[buctootim]

The death of youth culture and football tribalism is linked to all kinds of things - but mainly because football is seen as just another leisure activity now. All kinds of reasons for that - people dont take much pride in the local anymore, preferring global brands, holidays, tv programs and they have more money and access to other things to do on a Saturday. All kinds of community based stuff has fallen away, from local pubs to scouts to the cinema. People 'consume product' now in all walks of life, mostly at home, fed by what sky and advertising tell them to like. Real loss imo

[Barry Sanchez]

Nobody really knows what working class and middle class means now - these two classes have been melded together due to a number of factors many of which originated from Thatchers 80's. The difference in days gone by was that working class were the people on the shopfloor or at the 'coalface' metaphorically speaking. As an example, I cannot imagine a qualified gas engineer/fitter considering him/her self as a working class individual - they earn more a lot more than most office workers I would imagine, drive BMW's or equivelent, go on at least one foreign holiday a year and their kids enjoy the best life has to offer.

 

Today IMO we have the following social classes: the Poor/Homeless, the Financially Secure, the Affluent. You will never see the lowest class in a league football stadium now.

 

 

Maybe we should as football was designed for all to see, that can not happen any longer, when its more expensive to watch a game in the 4th tier of English football than it is in the Bundesliga you know something is very very wrong.

[Barry Sanchez]

The death of youth culture and football tribalism is linked to all kinds of things - but mainly because football is seen as just another leisure activity now. All kinds of reasons for that - people dont take much pride in the local anymore, preferring global brands, holidays, tv programs and they have more money and access to other things to do on a Saturday. All kinds of community based stuff has fallen away, from local pubs to scouts to the cinema. People 'consume product' now in all walks of life, mostly at home, fed by what sky and advertising tell them to like. Real loss imo

 

Its a great shame, anyone who says now football is better than it used to be needs to take the red pill and escape the matrix.

[adrian lord]

Maybe we should as football was designed for all to see, that can not happen any longer, when its more expensive to watch a game in the 4th tier of English football than it is in the Bundesliga you know something is very very wrong.

 

The Bundesliga shows that there is a workable 'football business model' that offers much cheaper more accessible admission prices and therefore huge passionate, less plastic crowds. OK, so they can't afford the Ronaldos of this world but in my book that ain't a bad thing and it doesn't seem to harm Dortmund, or Munchen etc so much in the fabled holy grail of the Champions League.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Maybe we should as football was designed for all to see, that can not happen any longer, when its more expensive to watch a game in the 4th tier of English football than it is in the Bundesliga you know something is very very wrong.

 

Completely agree. I find it coldly amusing that I've worked my way up in life moving from what one might call a working class background where I aspired to be able to own an ST to see my club play, to now owning that ST but feeling that something has been lost on the way. I know this will sound daft to some, but our days in L1 were some of the happiest memories since being able to afford an ST. Strange that.

[solentstars]

Nobody really knows what working class and middle class means now - these two classes have been melded together due to a number of factors many of which originated from Thatchers 80's. The difference in days gone by was that working class were the people on the shopfloor or at the 'coalface' metaphorically speaking. As an example, I cannot imagine a qualified gas engineer/fitter considering him/her self as a working class individual - they earn more a lot more than most office workers I would imagine, drive BMW's or equivelent, go on at least one foreign holiday a year and their kids enjoy the best life has to offer.

 

Today IMO we have the following social classes: the Poor/Homeless, the Financially Secure, the Affluent. You will never see the lowest class in a league football stadium now.

 

I think your spot on with that post from someone who remembers the real working class rather than the pretend ones who are the middle class who go to st Mary nowadays.never heard of working class fans buying Tory trash like the daily mail in the 60s and 70s.

 

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk 2

[Junction 9]

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about then.

 

I've been watching Saints at home every Saturday since 1987. I GUARANTEE I know what I'm talking about.

[david in sweden]

I am refering to clubs newer on the scene but there is some truth say that our teams support is more middle class/conservative than them down the road but ironically its a Labour City and has been for sometime.

 

...maybe it's just that the fans aren't Labour types, though you can't expect the fanbase to be a cross-section of society in every city. I always remember the (politcal majority )to have been 51 / 49 to one party or the other.

[John Boy Saint]

I am confused, I have a season ticket, to some I earn f**k off money, where do I fit into this equation?

[PhilippineSaint]

I am confused, I have a season ticket, to some I earn f**k off money, where do I fit into this equation?

 

Thats what I keep asking Who's who in this scenario and how do we define them but nobody can give me an answer

 

Think we may just have to accept being Saints fans from all area's of life all denominations or non denoms of religion and that should about cover it.