Dig Dig Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 A CB of the same level as Rodriguez would be the type of quality you were looking for though... I'd want a CB of the same quality as Dos Santos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 A CB of the same level as Rodriguez would be the type of quality you were looking for though... Do you have a life mate? Going back through the summer picking people up on posts, for no reason. I don't get your point. Get out there and get yourself a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 A CB of the same level as Rodriguez would be the type of quality you were looking for though... Yep - would be happy if we got a CB in who had the same ability/potential as Jay Rod and Clyne - like the profile of these players - young, hungry, talented. Miles better than targetting an Upson. Craig Dawson of WBA fits the bill. Maybe Chester at Hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpin4rizeal Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Agree with the confidence bit. Think how many starts JR has had in his favoured position in our first XI ie not in the cup. I can only think of WH away, WBA away (both when the whole team was dire) and then Saturday. Thats three games. Surely we can only judge him after say 10/15 qames? Thats what I will be doing anyway. That is fair, trouble is if lallana is out for a period we might see rickie drop behind rodriguez and gaston out wide left like 2nd half yesterday ramirez looks much more effective playing off striker. Its taking 2 of our key men out of favoured positions so hes really gonna have to take the chance with both hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 What? Of course I can. I'm not paid to run and manage our football club am I. Fair enough, the way you criticised me in the Summer for saying they weren't good enough I would have thought you'd stick by your convictions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 (edited) Do you have a life mate? Going back through the summer picking people up on posts, for no reason. I don't get your point. Get out there and get yourself a job. I'm on my lunch hour thanks! To be fair I am just doing going through the one thread from the Summer and I couldn't remember if it was you or SC that said it. The argument was that they weren't top 10 players this Season, which is fair (although I will happily admit I was wrong on Clyne). Edited 10 December, 2012 by Dibden Purlieu Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Yep - would be happy if we got a CB in who had the same ability/potential as Jay Rod and Clyne - like the profile of these players - young, hungry, talented. Miles better than targetting an Upson. Craig Dawson of WBA fits the bill. Maybe Chester at Hull. How is Dawson the same? He's played numerous times in the Premiership for a decent side. JRod had never played above the Championship?? Haven't seen Chester in all honesty, but is he the no1 CB that we need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 How is Dawson the same? He's played numerous times in the Premiership for a decent side. JRod had never played above the Championship?? Haven't seen Chester in all honesty, but is he the no1 CB that we need? Dawson is young, hungry (I assume) and talented, which is the criteria I was assessing. For me JR hits all those. If he doesn't for you then thats ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Fair enough, the way you criticised me in the Summer for saying they weren't good enough I would have thought you'd stick by your convictions... Convictions? They're thoughts on the abilities of footballers, not "convictions". Clyne has been brilliant, Davis "ok" and Rodriguez a bit of a disappointment, still wouldn't be particularly bothered about having McGregor or Gordon ahead of Davis, so don't think my "convictions" have been too bad thanks. How have yours been getting on? Not great based on all the threads that were dragged up the other week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Dawson is young, hungry (I assume) and talented, which is the criteria I was assessing. For me JR hits all those. If he doesn't for you then thats ok. Hmmm, no he doesn't. Not to the same levels. There are scales on how talented a player is, it's not just "Does he have talent? Yes/No". I would say Dawson is far further up the talent scale than JRod. A lot further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Dawson is young, hungry (I assume) and talented, which is the criteria I was assessing. For me JR hits all those. If he doesn't for you then thats ok. Not good enough SC, he want's an admission that you were wrong and the club were wrong. Had we have signed Dos Santos as DPS says we'd be much better off. Not ifs or buts there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Hmmm, no he doesn't. Not to the same levels. There are scales on how talented a player is, it's not just "Does he have talent? Yes/No". I would say Dawson is far further up the talent scale than JRod. A lot further. Opinions - I wouldn't say it is overly ludicrous to judge Dawson as being fairly similar to Jay Rod. Aside from a handful of Prem apps they have had similar paths. In fact I wouldn't be suprised if they had a very similar number of prem apps by the end of this season as Dawson rarely starts at WBA. And against my criteria of young, hungry, talented I would say JR hits all those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Convictions? They're thoughts on the abilities of footballers, not "convictions". Clyne has been brilliant, Davis "ok" and Rodriguez a bit of a disappointment, still wouldn't be particularly bothered about having McGregor or Gordon ahead of Davis, so don't think my "convictions" have been too bad thanks. How have yours been getting on? Not great based on all the threads that were dragged up the other week. Not too bad actually, I stand by them though as I have faith in my opinion on players. I maintain that Rodriguez is not the player we needed for this season, but could be good in a couple of years. Clyne started of shaky but has improved massively, and I hope he continues (I was worried if in a bad defence then he would lose faith in his ability - it happens often). Why the speechmarks around "convictions"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Not good enough SC, he want's an admission that you were wrong and the club were wrong. Had we have signed Dos Santos as DPS says we'd be much better off. Not ifs or buts there. Well that truce lasted long...again completely taking what is said out of context. No surprise you popped up following me around is there? Myself and Saint Charlie are discussing something sensibly and you stick your aggressive/nasty nose in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Opinions - I wouldn't say it is overly ludicrous to judge Dawson as being fairly similar to Jay Rod. Aside from a handful of Prem apps they have had similar paths. In fact I wouldn't be suprised if they had a very similar number of prem apps by the end of this season as Dawson rarely starts at WBA. And against my criteria of young, hungry, talented I would say JR hits all those. I think we'll have to agree to disagree then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Well that truce lasted long...again completely taking what is said out of context. No surprise you popped up following me around is there? Myself and Saint Charlie are discussing something sensibly and you stick your aggressive/nasty nose in. He probably doesn't know much about football so just antagonises like Jason Roberts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 I think we'll have to agree to disagree then... Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 I still don't think you're getting my point. This is not a question of whether Rodriguez is one for the future; we know that's what he's seen as. But for the money that we spent we could have had any of the players that I listed, all of whom I'd prefer to Rodriguez right now as I believe they would all challenge Lambert for the starting role or make a case to play alongside him. Rodriguez may be one for the future (it's debatable) but he's doing neither of those right now; he is an understudy and that's all. So, just to repeat myself (again) if we were going to spend £7M on a striker then I think our priority at that point in time and (if only for this season) should have been to bring in someone who can challenge right now, rather than in seasons down the line. As I said to Swedish Dave; if Rodriguez had cost £1M or £2M then its an irrelevant converstion, he's well worth the gamble. At the price he was I think it was the wrong gamble at that point in time. If Lambert gets injured then I simply don't think we as a side would have the necessary quality to just replace him with Rodriguez; our side wouldn't be good enough. If Lambert doesn't get injured then we'll have maybe gotten a tiny bit lucky. No I'm getting it, but I don't think it was possible. Lambert was always going to be our first choice striker this season, aside from Michu, getting someone in of his quality would have either cost us twice the price of Rodriguez (e.g. Fletcher) or would have been at a similar price but as old as Lambert and would cost us much more in wages. (e.g.Berbatov). The latter choice doesn't fit into our transfer policy so I doubt the club were ever going down that route. I simply don't think the club will pay any large sums for players who are 28+ so we might go for Boruc who was free or Davis at a cut price but even if Berbatov had been open to joining us, there is no way we would have stumped up £6 million + £60k a week for a 31 year old. We as fans have to understand this, it's the clubs philosophy so any big money signings are going to be of the 'young with potential' type. So we go down that roiute with Jay Rod, in comparison to similar young british players plying their trade in the championship £7 million seems about the market rate so I don't think we have overpaid. You also said that Jay Rod wasn't challenging Lambert for a place, yet he is because he has started in place of him on a few occasions. He's challenging and in the limited games he has got to start in his favoured position he has done ok and shown glimpses of real talent. Harsh to judge him as he hasn't got much game time, could he have done more? maybe but I don't think he has done badly and with a run of games who knows? 3 goals in a few starts up front is ok for a back up striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 He probably doesn't know much about football so just antagonises like Jason Roberts. I think using the word 'probably' is being a bit kind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Well that truce lasted long...again completely taking what is said out of context. No surprise you popped up following me around is there? Myself and Saint Charlie are discussing something sensibly and you stick your aggressive/nasty nose in. My nose is sweet and button like thank you. If you want a private chat with SC, do it over PM, not on a public forum, especially if you don't want others commenting. I've not taken anything you've said out of context. Just would like to know why you mentioned Dos Santos who hardly has any premier league experience which is something you often refer to as essential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 I think using the word 'probably' is being a bit kind... Good prediction that we would get 1 point in our last 5 games by the way. Great knowledge and foresight on your behalf there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 (edited) Good prediction that we would get 1 point in our last 5 games by the way. Great knowledge and foresight on your behalf there. I'm sure he didn't predict that. EDIT: Just looked at the thread...DPS man you need a shot of confidence in the Saints and NA! Edited 10 December, 2012 by Saint Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Good prediction that we would get 1 point in our last 5 games by the way. Great knowledge and foresight on your behalf there. Lol, when was that? I think that may well have been said tongue in cheek, or dependant on whether we changed the strange team selections/substitutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 My nose is sweet and button like thank you. If you want a private chat with SC, do it over PM, not on a public forum, especially if you don't want others commenting. I've not taken anything you've said out of context. Just would like to know why you mentioned Dos Santos who hardly has any premier league experience which is something you often refer to as essential? From watching Dos Santos last season the guy is pretty good, and I think would have been a more effective player to have this season ahead of JRod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 From watching Dos Santos last season the guy is pretty good, and I think would have been a more effective player to have this season ahead of JRod. He is an attacking midfielder though - would have been an alternative to Gaston. JR was signed to compete with RL - totally different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Not too bad actually, I stand by them though as I have faith in my opinion on players. I maintain that Rodriguez is not the player we needed for this season, but could be good in a couple of years. Clyne started of shaky but has improved massively, and I hope he continues (I was worried if in a bad defence then he would lose faith in his ability - it happens often). Why the speechmarks around "convictions"? Because the use of the term "convictions" to describe an opinion on the signing of a footballer is ridiculous. For some reason you chose to pick out a post I made in the middle of pre-season, when we'd signed Clyne, S. Davis and Rodriguez , with you lamenting the lack of quality in those signings. Looking back I thought Rodriguez would offer more than he has and didn't think/know we'd then go on to spend another £3m+ on a striker that was rarely going to play. Hard to make a full judgement on pre-season transfer activity half-way through. Just to clarify, do you think Clyne is a good enough signing for us or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 He is an attacking midfielder though - would have been an alternative to Gaston. JR was signed to compete with RL - totally different. Not saying that, but I think the money would have probably been better spent on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Lol, when was that? I think that may well have been said tongue in cheek, or dependant on whether we changed the strange team selections/substitutions. Oh, another thing which you've said which has been taken out of context. Seems like it happens to you quite frequently. Maybe use the emoticons a bit more wisely. After writing something like, "we will get 1 point from all those games, Norwich at home will be the one" it's difficult to realise that you didn't actually believe that especially given all your anti-Adkins guff this season (which was also all taken out of context it seems) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 I'm sure he didn't predict that. EDIT: Just looked at the thread...DPS man you need a shot of confidence in the Saints and NA! Lol, I think I had a bad day, and I couldn't see us changing the way we were going unless we changed things...luckily we did and we're up to 15th now!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Because the use of the term "convictions" to describe an opinion on the signing of a footballer is ridiculous. For some reason you chose to pick out a post I made in the middle of pre-season, when we'd signed Clyne, S. Davis and Rodriguez , with you lamenting the lack of quality in those signings. Looking back I thought Rodriguez would offer more than he has and didn't think/know we'd then go on to spend another £3m+ on a striker that was rarely going to play. Hard to make a full judgement on pre-season transfer activity half-way through. Just to clarify, do you think Clyne is a good enough signing for us or not? I think defensively he is still a bit suspect, and certainly quite a few goals that we conceded early in the Season were due to naive defensive mistakes, slips etc. However going forward he is excellent, and he has started to shore up defensively. Going forward, and especially from next season with a full Prem season under his belt he will be excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 (edited) No I'm getting it, but I don't think it was possible. Lambert was always going to be our first choice striker this season He should have been, granted. But leaving him out on opening day and hearing many rumours that he was being lined up with a transfer away from the club, I'm less sure. All innuendo though so not worth delving into further. aside from Michu, getting someone in of his quality would have either cost us twice the price of Rodriguez (e.g. Fletcher) or would have been at a similar price but as old as Lambert and would cost us much more in wages. (e.g.Berbatov). The latter choice doesn't fit into our transfer policy so I doubt the club were ever going down that route. I simply don't think the club will pay any large sums for players who are 28+ so we might go for Boruc who was free or Davis at a cut price but even if Berbatov had been open to joining us, there is no way we would have stumped up £6 million + £60k a week for a 31 year old. We as fans have to understand this, it's the clubs philosophy so any big money signings are going to be of the 'young with potential' type. So we go down that roiute with Jay Rod, in comparison to similar young british players plying their trade in the championship £7 million seems about the market rate so I don't think we have overpaid. You also said that Jay Rod wasn't challenging Lambert for a place, yet he is because he has started in place of him on a few occasions. He's challenging and in the limited games he has got to start in his favoured position he has done ok and shown glimpses of real talent. Harsh to judge him as he hasn't got much game time, could he have done more? maybe but I don't think he has done badly and with a run of games who knows? 3 goals in a few starts up front is ok for a back up striker. And what you say is fair enough; but you must understand that, in some cases, some people (i.e. me) believe there is a case when we shouldn't so rigidly stick to that transfer policy. That, as I droned on and on about in the summer, there is a place for one or two players in the squad with top level experience but who will cost a bit more. That there was maybe some worth in exploring the capture of someone like Berbatov, if not exactly him then someone like that (and yes £6M plus £60K a week would be too much, but I hear its less at £4M and if so and on a 2 or 3 year contract I think there's potential value there too). If we stay up this year, then I'd completely go along with the Rodriguez type of signing going onwards; I really would. Its refreshing we're not like QPR. But, at that stage, I maintain there was a case to bring on someone different to properly challenge RL and make a case to play alongside him. Rodriguez may have played instead of Lambert once or twice but I'd find it extremely hard to agree if you said it was the right choice, and even so he has barely played up front instead of him (and nor should have IMO). As I said to Minty; I don't think there's a right or wrong with this. You believe the risk was worth it to go for an unproven youngter who may get better, give a few year's service and have a resale value. I believe a better solution (if only for this season) would have been to go for someone like any of the other players on the list, just to consolidate ourselves this season and build on from there. And its impossible right now to say which one is correct; its all personal interpretation. Edited 10 December, 2012 by The Kraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Oh, another thing which you've said which has been taken out of context. Seems like it happens to you quite frequently. Maybe use the emoticons a bit more wisely. After writing something like, "we will get 1 point from all those games, Norwich at home will be the one" it's difficult to realise that you didn't actually believe that especially given all your anti-Adkins guff this season (which was also all taken out of context it seems) I did believe we'd get 1 point from those games unless we changed something. Thankfully we did. What are 'emoticons' by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 The only things which changed were what some people were saying at the time would make a difference....best 11 available to choose from, playing the teams around us, having a settled back 4, not playing Fox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 I did believe we'd get 1 point from those games unless we changed something. Thankfully we did. What are 'emoticons' by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 The only things which changed were what some people were saying at the time would make a difference....best 11 available to choose from, playing the teams around us, having a settled back 4, not playing Fox. Lambert starting every game, JRod not being shoe-horned into the side (apart from Saturday), not removing our best players when only 1 goal up etc. That has all changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 As I said to Minty; I don't think there's a right or wrong with this. You believe the risk was worth it to go for an unproven youngter who may get better, give a few year's service and have a resale value. I believe a better solution (if only for this season) would have been to go for someone like any of the other players on the list, just to consolidate ourselves this season and build on from there. And its impossible right now to say which one is correct; its all personal interpretation. At least we appreciate this, I do feel some people try to labour the points too much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Lambert starting every game, JRod not being shoe-horned into the side (apart from Saturday), not removing our best players when only 1 goal up etc. That has all changed. Jrod played in a 442 on Saturday so can't see how playing a striker is "shoe-horning". He only stopped playing when Ramirez came back.....quite significant....he only played on Saturday as Ramirez didn't start. Re Lambert and subs, obviously an element of learning required for all. Glad that the club at least showed some sense and stuck by the convictions which has gained us so much success to date and didn't react in a knee jerk short termist manner which so often plagues football in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 (edited) He should have been, granted. But leaving him out on opening day and hearing many rumours that he was being lined up with a transfer away from the club, I'm less sure. All innuendo though so not worth delving into further. And what you say is fair enough; but you must understand that, in some cases, some people (i.e. me) believe there is a case when we shouldn't so rigidly stick to that transfer policy. That, as I droned on and on about in the summer, there is a place for one or two players in the squad with top level experience but who will cost a bit more. That there was maybe some worth in exploring the capture of someone like Berbatov, if not exactly him then someone like that (and yes £6M plus £60K a week would be too much, but I hear its less at £4M and if so and on a 2 or 3 year contract I think there's potential value there too). If we stay up this year, then I'd completely go along with the Rodriguez type of signing going onwards; I really would. Its refreshing we're not like QPR. But, at that stage, I maintain there was a case to bring on someone different to properly challenge RL and make a case to play alongside him. Rodriguez may have played instead of Lambert once or twice but I'd find it extremely hard to agree if you said it was the right choice, and even so he has barely played up front instead of him (and nor should have IMO). As I said to Minty; I don't think there's a right or wrong with this. You believe the risk was worth it to go for an unproven youngter who may get better, give a few year's service and have a resale value. I believe a better solution (if only for this season) would have been to go for someone like any of the other players on the list, just to consolidate ourselves this season and build on from there. And its impossible right now to say which one is correct; its all personal interpretation. True, true, personally I agree in some respects had Berbatov been an option for us then I think he has so much quality above the current squad that you would go for it as an 'X factor signing', although I think Ramirez is our equivalent and he's only 21. Same should apply if we buy a centre back, if there is a top quality one out there that we could get for £6 million or so plus big wages then we should go for it even if he's 30+, because signings like that will take you to the next level and worth it for the two seasons or so. But I think the club's policy is pretty rigid and I can't see them changing it any time soon, but at least it means we are unlikely to go down the QPR route, we have a young hungry team with few egos who are improving and learning, they have already got better in their 16 games. If we go down we most of our players will have decent re-sale values and we won't be burgeoned with a massive wage bill. I always thought though that Lamberts iconic status makes it tough for any other striker at the club, someone filling in or replacing him has big foots to fill, maybe this + the big fee + new to the league has afffected Jay Rod. Any striker signing is going to be tricky to get right with Lambert around. I also think that Jay Rod will score some crucial goals for us this season. Edited 10 December, 2012 by tajjuk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Jrod played in a 442 on Saturday so can't see how playing a striker is "shoe-horning". He only stopped playing when Ramirez came back.....quite significant....he only played on Saturday as Ramirez didn't start. Re Lambert and subs, obviously an element of learning required for all. Glad that the club at least showed some sense and stuck by the convictions which has gained us so much success to date and didn't react in a knee jerk short termist manner which so often plagues football in general. I meant previously he had been shoehorned in, not on Saturday though... Re: the last point. I am happy too that they haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Jrod played in a 442 on Saturday so can't see how playing a striker is "shoe-horning". He only stopped playing when Ramirez came back.....quite significant....he only played on Saturday as Ramirez didn't start. Re Lambert and subs, obviously an element of learning required for all. Glad that the club at least showed some sense and stuck by the convictions which has gained us so much success to date and didn't react in a knee jerk short termist manner which so often plagues football in general. I think what Saturday showed us is that we don't have a realistic replacement for Lallana or the wide left position. As good as Ramirez is, he's not a wide midfielder. That Rodriguez played was IMO more to do with not having anyone else who can play left side rather than Rodriguez's talents forcing the managers hand for inclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 I think what Saturday showed us is that we don't have a realistic replacement for Lallana or the wide left position. As good as Ramirez is, he's not a wide midfielder. That Rodriguez played was IMO more to do with not having anyone else who can play left side rather than Rodriguez's talents forcing the managers hand for inclusion. i think a winger that can play on either flank, a youngster (think it may be a little bit lazy, but like Thomas Ince) would do us very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 (edited) Puncheon's not really a striker, Dave. Given that we had a bid for Matt Phillips in the summer; and given that Punch has been brilliant in some games but average in others, its not at all inconceivable that we're looking to replace him. Especially so since we've yet to agree any terms on an extension to a contract that expires in the summer. But yes; any additional striker costing £7M should IMO be giving Rickie Lambert a run for his money, and banging on the door to be picked ahead of him or as a genuine option to play alongside him as Rodriguez did on Saturday. JRod got a game not because he forced his way in there, but because Ramirez wasn't deemed worthy of a full 90 minutes. Put it this way; if Rodriguez had cost £1M or £2M, we wouldn't be having this debate. He would be deemed an ok backup to have in reserve; not as good as our first choice but he'll do a job. We're having this debate because he was £7M and, for a side such as us at that time, I feel that £7M should have provided us with a player who was ready to start regularly for the first team in the Premier League. OK Kraken, your answer is that Puncheon isn't a striker..(despite having scored 4 first team goals) so that means JayRod's only " challenger " is Rickie Lambert .... or ? As I recall there was a (fans) huge outcry when NA started him ahead of Lambert in the Man.City game. ......or did we forget that he was played in midfield and Guly was the sole striker at the start of that game. I think we'd all agree that Guly is not a contender for Lambert's place, but Puncheon has now taken the wide role that Jay Rod had in those following three games before being dropped, and most people agreed that JR wasn't suited to the wide role (rumour has it he said so himself)...so we are back to the same question. Jay Rod doesn't get to play unless he is...(proven to be) as good as / better than Lambert..........He may be tons better than RL (in training) but he's not going to get picked ahead of him....is he ? ...so it's a deadlock. A catch 22 situation. He won't score unless he plays ....and he's not getting more than 20 mins sub. time at present..and so has limited chances. He did score a good goal against Newcastle ...but the linesman made a wrong decision. It seems his only chance ....according to most on this board ......is if RL has a prolonged injury period (which of course none of us want)... and which the majority of the same think will be a disaster because he will never score (they say)....the way Rickie does. (Catch 22 again). ONE DAY...Ricky won't be there any more....and someone will HAVE to take his place...and will be forever dam*ed (by fans)...because he can't score the way (in the Prem) the way Rickie did ...back in those NPC / L1 days. The other issue I raised is that Prem. transfer fees are seldom so low as £1-2 million. We may have spent almost 50% of the summer money on one player, but lower league teams expect to cash in on their best players when selling to Prem. sides....as we did when selling Walcott, Bale and Alex O-C. Seeing the progress of those three players, somehow I feel we were robbed ! This is Prem.-land. Everything costs. Players salaries are higher.....and transfer fees more than most of us can ever imagine. I don't know about the rest of you but I didn't expect JayRod to come into the side ASAP ....as he was clearly RL's successor (as I think he will become - eventually) ...and then I'll come back and tell you the other James Beattie story !... Michu (were we EVER in for him) wasn't just a chance signing..he was all that Swansea could afford. They got a bargain (or so it seems at present) ...as we did when we signed RL from Bristol Rovers and people said that £1 million was far too much for an L1 striker... We got lucky. Edited 10 December, 2012 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Rodriguez is a class act and I for one hope to see him in the Saints team for a few years to come. Fellow players and staff think this lad has bundles of ability and will be a star in our team as we rise up the league. Top class player...So glad he is a Saints player... Go J ROD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 I read that twice Dave and I'm not sure what benefit it has to the discussion, if I'm honest. Just consider yourself part of the "I think Rodriguez has got potential and it was a worthwhile transfer" brigade, and I'll stay in the "it was a gamble we shouldn't have taken, we should have bought someone else" camp; and we'll revisit in 10 years time to see who was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 (edited) I read that twice Dave and I'm not sure what benefit it has to the discussion, if I'm honest. Just consider yourself part of the "I think Rodriguez has got potential and it was a worthwhile transfer" brigade, and I'll stay in the "it was a gamble we shouldn't have taken, we should have bought someone else" camp; and we'll revisit in 10 years time to see who was right. OK Kraken, that's fair. Let's agree to disagree on that one. BTW Matt Phillips is described as a winger and his tally of only 23 goals in over 160 games doesn't fill me with enthusiasm for his goal-scoring abilities. JayRod's stats.....are 36 goals in 120 games..if that's anything to go by ? Edited 10 December, 2012 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 OK Kraken, that's fair. Let's agree to disagree on that one. BTW Matt Phillips is described as a winger and his tally of only 23 goals in over 160 games doesn't fill me with enthusiasm for his goal-scoring abilities. Stats are probably thrown out of sync by his 1 season in the PL with Blackpool, 1 league goal, 27 games. Take that out of the equation and it comes down to 22 goals in about 135, 1 in 6, better than Lallana's PL strike rate to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Stats are probably thrown out of sync by his 1 season in the PL with Blackpool, 1 league goal, 27 games. Take that out of the equation and it comes down to 22 goals in about 135, 1 in 6, better than Lallana's PL strike rate to date. except that if you want to compare stats.without PL games ....it means that Lallana's 37 goals in 170 Saints games (around 1 in 4.6) gives him an even better strike rate than Phillips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 except that if you want to compare stats.without PL games ....it means that Lallana's 37 goals in 170 Saints games (around 1 in 4.6) gives him an even better strike rate than Phillips. Phillips is a good bit younger though, made his PL debuts at about 18 ish I think, Lallana's stats are a bit doped by the 20 odd he scored in our first league 1 campaign, subsequent seasons have seen him scoring less and less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 Played very well today, fast skilfull Good workrate, held the ball well. One to watch definitely. I honestly don't think he's shown us anything much yet. I actually thought his touch was pretty poor a lot of the time on Saturday and is one area where he can learn a lot from Lambert (and others), but his pace in behind was something that gave us a new dimension. There's no solidity to his touch and sometimes he's waving a weak ankle at it rather to deflect it, rather than trying to get hold of the ball and it seems to be a choice he makes. It's still going to take time, but at least he's getting a look in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 10 December, 2012 Share Posted 10 December, 2012 The only things which changed were what some people were saying at the time would make a difference....best 11 available to choose from, playing the teams around us, having a settled back 4, not playing Fox. Still mainly just this one. We'll only see whether best 11, settled back 4 and not playing Fox are relevant if we keep the same defence for the matches against the likes of Arsenal and Man City in the New Year - I think we still make enough minor errors back there that half-decent sides would take advantage of that it's only the failings of the opposition. Hopefully Shaw at the very least will prove to be an improvement in the longer run, certainly looking less exposed than Fox did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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