Seaford Saint Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 Played very well today, fast skilfull Good workrate, held the ball well. One to watch definitely.
shurlock Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 Thought he had a good first 15-20 mins but after that drifted in and out of the game -and didnt really look like scoring or creating anything. Continued to work hard and chase the channels but I expect more from a £7m signing.
Matthew Le God Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 Adkins with work with him to become Lambert's long term replacement given Rodriguez is 7 years younger. A shrewd signing in the current market for the £6 million he cost, which wouldn't have been all upfront in any case and based partly on clauses, bonuses and staggered payments.
Saint Garrett Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 Wasn't that bad at all Vs West Ham and showed good moments when he started Vs Everton. Thought he did very well today, but he's always going to be more of an 'Ormerod' than a 'Beattie'.
Matthew Le God Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 He's always going to be more of an 'Ormerod' than a 'Beattie'. What is that meant to mean? Can't see that comparison at all.
Saint Garrett Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 Even when he isn't scoring, he still pulls the defence all over the place with his energy, closing down and running. Feel he's a bit lightweight to play as Lambert's replacement at the moment, think he needs to bulk up a bit.
S-Clarke Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 His movement is top class, always has been. Will cause most teams problems. Just lacks in a bit of strength at the mo.
Dig Dig Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 Good movement as always but thought his first touch was off and actually wasn't that impressed with him today despite defending him on here in the past.
Colbury Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 He looks lightweight and short of confidence to me. There is a decent player in there somewhere but I expected more from him when he signed - here's hoping he comes good.
ollysaints1 Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 To be honest i dont think he will ever prove himself to be worth £7 million. However, his workrate and determination is head and shoulders above anyone else in the team.
Turkish Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 Thought he had a good first 15-20 mins but after that drifted in and out of the game -and didnt really look like scoring or creating anything. Continued to work hard and chase the channels but I expect more from a £7m signing. Are you mental? He was very unlucky in the second half with his chest and turn shot which went about a foot wide. Thought he looked decent throughout and always a threat. But then I thought Guly played well when he came on so I obviously know f*ck all.
sfc4prem Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 Played well today the lad. Constant thorn in their side, an absolute pain in the arse for their defence. Pace and workrate won us possession back several times and he looked dangerous making runs that no-one saw/decided not to pass to him. Will be a top player.
Turkish Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 Adkins with work with him to become Lambert's long term replacement given Rodriguez is 7 years younger. A shrewd signing in the current market for the £6 million he cost, which wouldn't have been all upfront in any case and based partly on clauses, bonuses and staggered payments. For once I actually agree with you. We've bought potential and he is a young man who at £6m is in reality not tht expensive for a young english striker. He'll come good and will be a big player for us if our dinlow fans don't ruin him first. People booing Guly coming on today, f*cking idiots.
captainchris Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 Thought he had a good first 15-20 mins but after that drifted in and out of the game -and didnt really look like scoring or creating anything. Continued to work hard and chase the channels but I expect more from a £7m signing. This is more accurate than the 7m valuation recognition. Really didn't see the 7m worth today I'm afraid. Quite lightweight did ok but not regular first team ok ....
VectisSaint Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 For once I actually agree with you. We've bought potential and he is a young man who at £6m is in reality not tht expensive for a young english striker. He'll come good and will be a big player for us if our dinlow fans don't ruin him first. People booing Guly coming on today, f*cking idiots. Its hard to admit to agreeing with Mr T, but for once I do. Though J-Rod was reasonably good today, but he clearly has potential. He was being targeted by the Reading "defenders" and while they were targeting him it gave others some room to exploit. The referee should have given the lad more protection today instead of seeing him being bundled over time and again.
itchen_dan Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 He looks lightweight and short of confidence to me. There is a decent player in there somewhere but I expected more from him when he signed - here's hoping he comes good. I think we all did if I'm honest with you, simply because we thought he was being brought in to play up alongside Rickie or Billy Sharp in a 4-4-2 formation. When he signed, little did we know that we'd end up using 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 / 4-2-3-1 where Jay would be used sparingly and when he did play, he was being played in the wrong position. This led to below par performances and a lack of confidence and fans were on his back straight away. E.G play Rickie on the left wing and he'll look nowhere near as good as he does in his natural CF position. When played like he was today as the striker furthest forward and playing in and around Rickie, Jay looked very good. Brilliant movement off the ball, decent-ish touch (will only get better) and runs the channels really well. As others have said, once he bulks up a bit and gets a bit more muscle on him as he matures and continues to learn, he will become a very very good player and some 'fans' will end up looking stupid for saying it was £7m wasted. I think he is a very good player and expect to see him get more and more game time as the season progresses.
Turkish Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 This is more accurate than the 7m valuation recognition. Really didn't see the 7m worth today I'm afraid. Quite lightweight did ok but not regular first team ok .... So are you questioning Adkins and Corteses valuation and transfer policy?
UpweySaint Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 Who expected him to come in and look class ? Could we have signed a quality striker in his prime on a fair wage for seven million (which was NOT all up front and therefore at this point he's more of a five million pound striker) I honestly have my doubts. Yes Ba, Michu etc there are rare examples but there are also many flops of big money "proven" players. Who remembers the brazillian goal machine Middlesborough signed a couple of seasons back for twelve million?!? Rodriguez will get better and we've invested in potential, that much im sure of, how long he takes to start hitting the back of the net regularly is beyond my foresight. Either way had a good game today, ok didn't set the world alight but not many would in a 1-0 against a defensive side, looked postive, good movement and almost had a goal.
ottery st mary Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 jrod will only get better and at times today his class shone through.. Some not giving him the benefit of the doubt re match fitness and that is why he tired into the second half and a good sub by NA....After a tremendous shift.. What I saw of this young striker today leads me to think he is value for money for a young English striker..... MORE GAMES TO COME and some of the Hockey and Netball players on this forum...... will see his value to the side.
supergoose Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 He's a young player with huge potential and he'll prove to be a great signing over time. Thought he looked good today.
TopGun Posted 8 December, 2012 Posted 8 December, 2012 I think it's unfair to compare Rodriguez to Lambert as they are not the same. Rodriguez has time to develop (like Lambert needed) but he ain't ever going to be the same old fashioned centre forward that Rickie is scaring defenders at set pieces and when crosses come in. But maybe Rodriguez will be better in different ways.
shurlock Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 Are you mental? He was very unlucky in the second half with his chest and turn shot which went about a foot wide. Thought he looked decent throughout and always a threat. But then I thought Guly played well when he came on so I obviously know f*ck all. Thought Guly was decent too when he came on. Rodriguez was more a nuisance than a threat IMO -not bad but reckon any number of alternatives would have worked as well, if not better.
The Kraken Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 I thought JRod was the very definition of average today; not a Premier League footballer. Not yet, and being harsh I don't think he ever will be. The difference between him and Rickie Lambert is night and day, and just like Rodriguez this is Lambert's first season in the top league. Guly; I like him, and he fits into our system really well (if not as a starting player). And he did really well when he came on today (I thought we looked much better than with Rodriguez). And to the many, many absolute c*nts that booed him: quite frankly, f*ck you all. I mean that: to anyone who booed; f*ck you. And full credit to the Northam for getting well above the ignorant pr*cks in our crowd and getting behind the man, full credit for that.
Matthew Le God Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 The difference between him and Rickie Lambert is night and day, and just like Rodriguez this is Lambert's first season in the top league. When Lambert was Rodriguez's age he was playing for Rochdale in League Two after being sold by Stockport in League One.
The Kraken Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 When Lambert was Rodriguez's age he was playing for Rochdale in League Two. I'm fully aware of that. What's that got to do with what I said? One is ready for the Premier League, one isn't.
Matthew Le God Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 I'm fully aware of that. What's that got to do with what I said? One is ready for the Premier League, one isn't. One is a first team regular, one is that first team regular's replacement if injury/suspension occurs and in years to come will be his successor - remember he is 7 years younger! We need squad depth and Rodriguez is that depth for Lambert. I'm fully aware Rodriguez isn't as good as Lambert (which is why he is often on the bench), but I certainly wouldn't write him off yet, I think he has a lot of potential and we have rarely seen him play this season in his best role as a centre forward as opposed to out wide.
The Kraken Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 One is a first team regular, one is that first team regular's replacement if injury/suspension occurs and in years to come his successor. We need squad depth and Rodriguez is that depth for Lambert. I'm fully aware Rodriguez isn't as good as Lambert (which is why he is often on the bench), but I certainly wouldn't write him off yet, I think he has a lot of potential and we have rarely seen him play this season in his best role as a centre forward as opposed to out wide. Missing the point. Yet. Again. £7M on squad strength. You think we should spend £7M on reserve players to make our squad deeper, and maybe hope for soemthing in one, two, three seasons time. Good for you, I don't.
shurlock Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 When Lambert was Rodriguez's age he was playing for Rochdale in League Two after being sold by Stockport in League One. 23 turning 24- same age as Cork, Lallana, Morgan etc. At his age, I don't expect him to be the finished article but for £7m I do expect him to be in the same bracket or nearabouts as those players. He isn't by quite a distance.
Matthew Le God Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 (edited) Missing the point. Yet. Again. £7M on squad strength. You think we should spend £7M on reserve players to make our squad deeper, and maybe hope for soemthing in one, two, three seasons time. Good for you, I don't. 23 turning 24- same age as Cork, Lallana, Morgan etc. At his age, I don't expect him to be the finished article but for £7m I do expect him to be in the same bracket or nearabouts as those players. He isn't by quite a distance. It wasn't £7m. As I said earlier in the thread... "£6 million, which wouldn't have been all upfront in any case and based partly on clauses, bonuses and staggered payments." £6m in the current climate is pretty much expected for a young English striker with potential, especially one with a good record in the Championship like Rodriguez had. If Lambert was to be injured/suspended and we didn't sign Rodriguez, who would you propose we play in the Lambert role this season? Edited 9 December, 2012 by Matthew Le God
The Kraken Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 It wasn't £7m. As I said earlier in the thread... "£6 million, which wouldn't have been all upfront in any case and based partly on clauses, bonuses and staggered payments." £6m in the current climate is pretty much expected for a young English striker with potential. If Lambert were injured and we didn't have Rodriguez, who would you propose we play in the Lambert role this season? If you've got proof it was "only" £6M Matthew, I'll go with that. Until then, I'll go with the figure I've heard from my sources which is a total figure of the deal of £7M. In any case; you're still massively missing the point. Yet. Again. Its not about who do we play instead of Lambert; its why we spent £7M on someone who isn't good enough to challenge our main striker; someone who will potentially only be good enough in years to come. It was entirely the wrong priority of player for us at the point in time we came to this league.
shurlock Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 It wasn't £7m. As I said earlier in the thread... "£6 million, which wouldn't have been all upfront in any case and based partly on clauses, bonuses and staggered payments." £6m in the current climate is pretty much expected for a young English striker with potential, especially one with a good record in the Championship like Rodriguez had. If Lambert was to be injured/suspended and we didn't sign Rodriguez, who would you propose we play in the Lambert role this season? You honestly think rodriguez would step up and carry the load this season if Lambert went down? Indeed, you yourself basically implying that he wont as you keep trotting out the 'potential' argument as defence for what have been pretty average performance
Give it to Ron Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 Did anyone think Ramirez was worth 12m then on his performances so far - yes the odd flash and obvious talent yet £12m???....Michu was signed for £2m yet Rodriguez gets slaughtered for not being worth £6m when he is work in progress. He was good today yet just needs a goal or two to up his confidence.
lordswoodsaints Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 Thought he had a good day today but he seems to shoot too often from bad positions and doesn't pull the trigger when in good positions.....still not convinced by him and I think we probably paid £5m too much for him.
shurlock Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 Did anyone think Ramirez was worth 12m then on his performances so far - yes the odd flash and obvious talent yet £12m???....Michu was signed for £2m yet Rodriguez gets slaughtered for not being worth £6m when he is work in progress. He was good today yet just needs a goal or two to up his confidence. Probably not but he's put in MOTM performances (Villa, Newcastle) where he was the standout player on the pitch, something echoed by the players who have been gushing in their praise. Its easier to see the 'potential' we've bought in GR's case (and he's younger than JR), though its equally valid to question whether he was the right priority at this moment in time.
S-Clarke Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 Did anyone think Ramirez was worth 12m then on his performances so far - yes the odd flash and obvious talent yet £12m???....Michu was signed for £2m yet Rodriguez gets slaughtered for not being worth £6m when he is work in progress. He was good today yet just needs a goal or two to up his confidence. In a few years, when the big clubs come calling with £25-30m offers, we'll realise what a decent deal we had. Top class player, who is only 22. Full of ability, more than anyone else in our team. He can be inconsistent throughout a game, but some of the stuff he can do - and most importantly, see - opens up our team to a completely different level.
Thedelldays Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 did well..good movement and fairly quick poor touch at times and needs a goal really
Gaucho Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 I thought he was average. His movement is good but attacks often broke down with him as he is easily pushed off the ball. Whether he will make it in the premier league is an open question.
Bucks Saint Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 I thought he was average. His movement is good but attacks often broke down with him as he is easily pushed off the ball. Whether he will make it in the premier league is an open question. Ref should have given a lot of the fouls against him
for_heaven's_Saint Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 Has the ability to become a great player, think his game is similar to Shane Long's and hope he can be as good. Just has to prove he has the touch and the finishing.
captainchris Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 So are you questioning Adkins and Corteses valuation and transfer policy? Sorry did I mention anything about 'transfer policy' ??? I answered a post on Jay's cost against value that was it...
channonball Posted 9 December, 2012 Posted 9 December, 2012 Sorry did I mention anything about 'transfer policy' ??? I answered a post on Jay's cost against value that was it... I think it's fair to question Adkins transfer policy. The spine of the team that won on Saturday was pardews. Adkins transfer have been pretty iffy in my view. He does on the other hand seem to get more out of the same players than pardew ever did.
Dig Dig Posted 10 December, 2012 Posted 10 December, 2012 I think it's fair to question Adkins transfer policy. The spine of the team that won on Saturday was pardews. Adkins transfer have been pretty iffy in my view. He does on the other hand seem to get more out of the same players than pardew ever did. Fonte, Lambert and Puncheon were the only Pardew signings starting yesterday. Clyne, Yoshida, Ramirez, Rodriguez, Cork were brought here under Adkins with the rest here already or brought through the academy. Pardew made some great signings for us but we long ago stopped being a Pardew team.
david in sweden Posted 10 December, 2012 Posted 10 December, 2012 Played very well today, fast skilfull. Good workrate, held the ball well. One to watch definitely. Agreed...and even the thought of signing another striker (Hooper?) .or the return of Billy Sharp(?) doesn't change my opinion. He needs a good run in a solid team and we'll see some goals . Like many others, his introduction to the Prem. was horrific...... and he had no chance to show any type of form.
david in sweden Posted 10 December, 2012 Posted 10 December, 2012 If you've got proof it was "only" £6M Matthew, I'll go with that. Until then, I'll go with the figure I've heard from my sources which is a total figure of the deal of £7M. In any case; you're still massively missing the point. Yet. Again. Its not about who do we play instead of Lambert; its why we spent £7M on someone who isn't good enough to challenge our main striker; someone who will potentially only be good enough in years to come. It was entirely the wrong priority of player for us at the point in time we came to this league. I have to agree with MLT on this one, Kraken. NO-ONE that I've read on here has ever suggested that Jay Rod was better than RL when we bought him. Clearly being 6 years younger than Rickie..and without the same experience / goal tally ....he was never going to replace him from day 1. It takes time for new players establish themselves - especially in the higher division I think he has great potential and sooner or later will replace RL who (despite his excellent Prem. start) definitely has a shelf life much shorter than JayRod. I recall James Beattie was less than worthless in his first two seasons...... before he found his form, and right striker partner(s).
The Kraken Posted 10 December, 2012 Posted 10 December, 2012 (edited) I have to agree with MLT on this one, Kraken. NO-ONE that I've read on here has ever suggested that Jay Rod was better than RL when we bought him. Clearly being 6 years younger than Rickie..and without the same experience / goal tally ....he was never going to replace him from day 1. It takes time for new players establish themselves - especially in the higher division I think he has great potential and sooner or later will replace RL who (despite his excellent Prem. start) definitely has a shelf life much shorter than JayRod. I recall James Beattie was less than worthless in his first two seasons...... before he found his form, and right striker partner(s). Then like MLG you also fail to miss the point being made, Dave. I'm not writing him off (although I'm starting to doubt if he'll ever be good enough for PL level). What I'm saying is that £7M spent on a player for the future was an ill-advised sum to spend by a team who had just been been promoted and should have been looking to consolidate in this league. It may have been a decent transfer for someone like, say, Fulham; who have been in the division for a while, already have a decent proven strike force and can afford the luxury of bedding in a new developing player. We don't have that luxury; we have Rickie Lambert firing them in (in his debut season) and no-one else with the requried quality to do that right now.m In any case, I think £7M is going to be seen as an overspend; I simply can't see him ever justifying that price tag. You've also made the Beattie comparison before. As I'm sure you've been told Beattie was 20 years old when he came to Saints, and we were an established Premier League side. Jay Rodriguez is 23, and we were a side that hadn't played Premier League for 7 years, and only have 2 players in our entire squad that have previously done so. So its not really a relevant comparison. Edited 10 December, 2012 by The Kraken
Turkish Posted 10 December, 2012 Posted 10 December, 2012 Sorry did I mention anything about 'transfer policy' ??? I answered a post on Jay's cost against value that was it... As was established on another thread, a player is only worth what a club is prepared to pay, are you suggesting that NC and NA dont have a handle on correct market values?
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