St Marco Posted 5 December, 2012 Share Posted 5 December, 2012 Another way of showing what im trying to say is look at this list here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_attendances_of_European_football_clubs Of the top 11 clubs in Europe in terms of average attendances 7 are German. Dortmund have the highest so is there no surprise that they now seem to be emerging as one of the biggest forces in football? Won the league two years in a row. Look dangerous in the CL. And they have a population of just 500k.... Shalke are a very good model for us to copy as we have very similar cities in terms of populations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 5 December, 2012 Share Posted 5 December, 2012 (edited) The thing is Saints could price the tickets to sell out every week but Cortese has already shown he is more interested in maximising revenue than putting bums on seats. The reason there are swathes of empty corporate seats going empty is because by all accounts, it's over-priced sh!te. But if the club are making twice the mark-up they only need to flog half as many to be quids in. Then when they do sell out for the big games they are raking it in. Like wise if the average ticket price is £40 you makes as much with a 24K attendance as you would with a full house at £30. I expect a banker would think that if every game is a sell out when we are bottom of the league then the prices are too cheap. Edited 5 December, 2012 by aintforever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 5 December, 2012 Share Posted 5 December, 2012 (edited) I don't think you seem to understand even what my point is (its not an argument, silly), MLG. Can you perhaps explain it for me. I gave it a go myself in posts #52 and #53, but if you could clarify it for me I'd be obliged. See number 2(a) below. It very much is an argument. ar·gu·ment (ärgy-mnt) n. 1. a. A discussion in which disagreement is expressed; a debate. b. A quarrel; a dispute. c. Archaic A reason or matter for dispute or contention: "sheath'd their swords for lack of argument" (Shakespeare). 2. a. A course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood: presented a careful argument for extraterrestrial life. b. A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason: The current low mortgage rates are an argument for buying a house now. c. A set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others. 3. a. A summary or short statement of the plot or subject of a literary work. b. A topic; a subject: "You and love are still my argument" (Shakespeare). 4. Logic The minor premise in a syllogism. 5. Mathematics a. An independent variable of a function. b. The angle of a complex number measured from the positive horizontal axis. 6. Computer Science A value used to evaluate a procedure or subroutine. 7. Linguistics In generative grammar, any of various positions occupied by a noun phrase in a sentence. Edited 5 December, 2012 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 5 December, 2012 Share Posted 5 December, 2012 Jesus. Thanks for going to that trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc1976 Posted 5 December, 2012 Share Posted 5 December, 2012 But if the main reason for us not selling out regularly at home is because of current poor form, why didn't we even sell out the first home game back in the prem after seven years on the back of a great performance away at the champions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 5 December, 2012 Share Posted 5 December, 2012 Thanks guys for reminding me that I must sort out my ticket for the New Year's Day match, being as it's the only one I can get to over the holidays, what with non-existant public transport and not being able to justify a hire car whilst I'm over. I'll pay what I need for the ticket, although the ticket was probably better value against Exeter a couple of years ago in L1 with the 30000 in the ground! With the possibility of moving back to the UK next year I'd be looking at a very tight budget. If a bigger ground will keep a check on prices I'm all for it. Otherwise I can see myself foregoing the season ticket and spending a few more quid down the nearest Sky equipped pub. That's the danger with the price of football these days, and in the crisis ridden country where I currently live the crowds are pretty poor for _most_ games, even though they're obsessed with football and the tickets are a lot cheaper. I don't see the UK economy being that much better, and the ticket prices are certainly out of kilter with the ones we see in Germany, for example. Apart from that, can we, as suggested above, have a separate thread on attendances, as it's all getting a bit repetitive and tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 5 December, 2012 Share Posted 5 December, 2012 Looks like another 500 or so tickets have gone on sale in the home end in block 43. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 5 December, 2012 Share Posted 5 December, 2012 Swansea haven't waited for years of top flight attendances to mull over... http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Swansea-City-aim-extend-Liberty-Stadium-12-000/story-17503362-detail/story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 5 December, 2012 Share Posted 5 December, 2012 Swansea haven't waited for years of top flight attendances to mull over... http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Swansea-City-aim-extend-Liberty-Stadium-12-000/story-17503362-detail/story.html A rather pertinent part of the article.... The stadium's current capacity is around 20,500, but the high-flying club is missing out on match-day revenue due to the demand to see them live. "We can do the east (stand) first probably if we want to, then decide on doing one of the other two or both at the same time," said Mr Jenkins. "But as we all know in football we don't know what's round the corner, so we have got be careful and make sure we do everything within what we can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 December, 2012 Share Posted 6 December, 2012 A rather pertinent part of the article.... The stadium's current capacity is around 20,500, but the high-flying club is missing out on match-day revenue due to the demand to see them live. "We can do the east (stand) first probably if we want to, then decide on doing one of the other two or both at the same time," said Mr Jenkins. "But as we all know in football we don't know what's round the corner, so we have got be careful and make sure we do everything within what we can afford. They still pressing forward despite it only being their 2nd season in the top flight. Even if done in stages, it isn't meeting your plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 6 December, 2012 Share Posted 6 December, 2012 They still pressing forward despite it only being their 2nd season in the top flight. Even if done in stages, it isn't meeting your plan. Dear Lord. Is this really your way of saying I'm wrong?! Swansea are asking for planning permission. Next year. A bit like Reading did years ago. A bit like I have previously suggested we might like to do too. And "my plan" is for Saints. Not Swansea. The two are separate cases, you see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmacian_saint Posted 6 December, 2012 Share Posted 6 December, 2012 Swansea haven't waited for years of top flight attendances to mull over... http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Swansea-City-aim-extend-Liberty-Stadium-12-000/story-17503362-detail/story.html True. But let's be honest, no matter the size of your town, a 20,500 stadium is not enough to sustain a team that is looking to cement a position in the top 10 of the PL without risking existence and our bankrupt neighbours are the best example of that. We've already got that extra capacity that Swansea are looking for and let's be honest, it's fine. In fact, if anything we should be looking at what would've happened if we had stayed in the old place down Archers Road. We would probably have one of the oldest grounds in the land, but my guess is we'd be just like Oldham or Preston. Football League classics that can't spend a day without looking at the photo album. Assuming past experience, and like it was mentioned, we needed a top 8 finish and a Christmas top 4 position to regularly sell out. This means that unless we can score Europa League qualification (so top 5-7), we will not sellout in a regular basis, hence we will not need a bigger stadium. Get the position right, then let's talk about this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 December, 2012 Author Share Posted 6 December, 2012 Thanks guys for reminding me that I must sort out my ticket for the New Year's Day match, being as it's the only one I can get to over the holidays, what with non-existant public transport and not being able to justify a hire car whilst I'm over. I'll pay what I need for the ticket, although the ticket was probably better value against Exeter a couple of years ago in L1 with the 30000 in the ground! With the possibility of moving back to the UK next year I'd be looking at a very tight budget. If a bigger ground will keep a check on prices I'm all for it. Otherwise I can see myself foregoing the season ticket and spending a few more quid down the nearest Sky equipped pub. That's the danger with the price of football these days, and in the crisis ridden country where I currently live the crowds are pretty poor for _most_ games, even though they're obsessed with football and the tickets are a lot cheaper. I don't see the UK economy being that much better, and the ticket prices are certainly out of kilter with the ones we see in Germany, for example. Apart from that, can we, as suggested above, have a separate thread on attendances, as it's all getting a bit repetitive and tiresome. Sorry, I didn't see anyone reminding you to buy a ticket for the new years day game, this is a thread about Saturdays game. Don't let that get in the way of an opportunity to talk about yourself again though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 6 December, 2012 Share Posted 6 December, 2012 Swansea haven't waited for years of top flight attendances to mull over... http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Swansea-City-aim-extend-Liberty-Stadium-12-000/story-17503362-detail/story.html They are at 99.2% capacity of a 20.5k seated stadium. Different club, different circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 6 December, 2012 Share Posted 6 December, 2012 They still pressing forward despite it only being their 2nd season in the top flight. Even if done in stages, it isn't meeting your plan. So your current arguments focus on Swansea (22k stadium) and rambling on about what if we were in Stoneham (we're not). I think I preferred the classic stuff about Chelsea 1984. Come on, play us one we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 6 December, 2012 Share Posted 6 December, 2012 I think I preferred the classic stuff about Chelsea 1984. Not sure why you have gone back a decade and hung onto one point I posted months ago about Chelsea in the mid 1990's averaging less in the Premier League than Saints did in League One. Oh yeah I do, because its CB Fry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 6 December, 2012 Share Posted 6 December, 2012 Another way of showing what im trying to say is look at this list here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_attendances_of_European_football_clubs Of the top 11 clubs in Europe in terms of average attendances 7 are German. Dortmund have the highest so is there no surprise that they now seem to be emerging as one of the biggest forces in football? Won the league two years in a row. Look dangerous in the CL. And they have a population of just 500k.... Shalke are a very good model for us to copy as we have very similar cities in terms of populations. Change is on the way for German football. At the moment, football is still very much for the fans over there. You have terracing, cheap tickets and can have a beer whilst watching the game. Football clubs are run properly, not by billionaire owners having a bit of fun. Though due to quite a bit of crowd trouble last year and some pretty high profile trouble on the final day of the season, the German government is looking to clamp down. Removing terracing is one thing that has been put forward. If they remove the terracing, the prices will go up. Once the prices rise, the clientèle will also start to change. What with the standard of German football improving and with it easily being the most exciting league other than the Premiership, I can see the Bundesliga following in the Premiership's footsteps in years to come. As for comparing our support to Dortmund's, whilst a small city they have massive support from all over Germany (due to past and recent success) and are no different to the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool on a home match day. Schalke's support is more impressive but Gelsenkirchen is an absolute khazi, the Middlesbrough of Germany if you will. There is literally nothing there to do other than go and watch Schalke - if the prices were ever to rise, their crowds would fall massively. It's a pretty poor, working class city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 6 December, 2012 Share Posted 6 December, 2012 Full minimum away allocation is 3000 minus seats necessary for segregation or 10% whichever is smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 6 December, 2012 Share Posted 6 December, 2012 Full minimum away allocation is 3000 minus seats necessary for segregation or 10% whichever is smaller. That's the regulation, yes. Saints give up to 3,200; due to the configuration of St. Mary's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Why don't you also send him tons of abuse by PM? That's the really cool and hard thing to do. I didn't get any. Turkish isn't that hard obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Block 43 now on sale to home supporters, also looks like its going to be very empty in the Itchen South tomorrow - but this has been the case for a number of games this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 The fact Reading's support hasn't even made block 43 is appalling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 How many tickets have we sold now then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 The fact Reading's support hasn't even made block 43 is appalling. Especially so when they filled the 3,200 last season for a Friday night game. And this is almost as much of a local derby as they're likely to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Is it a general demise in the popularity of football do you think? Anyone know how the attendance figures for the Prem are holding up this year versus the same time in the 2011/12 season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Especially so when they filled the 3,200 last season for a Friday night game. And this is almost as much of a local derby as they're likely to get. Us and QPR must be their closest games. They didn't even take the lower tier at QPR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Is it a general demise in the popularity of football do you think? Anyone know how the attendance figures for the Prem are holding up this year versus the same time in the 2011/12 season? Our average attendances are actually very good this season; 30,300 so far. Which is pretty much in line with anything we used to average in the Premier League before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 How many tickets have we sold now then? Around 2,100 home seats still available to buy; just under 500 of those in Block 43. The whole of Block 43 isn't available; only around 1/3 of it. I'd imagine (given the non-capacity turnout from both sides) that the segregated area will be fairly sizeable to make stewarding a bit simpler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Our average attendances are actually very good this season; 30,300 so far. Which is pretty much in line with anything we used to average in the Premier League before. Do you happen to know if that's the same for the Prem as a whole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Do you happen to know if that's the same for the Prem as a whole? I don't, but this shows the current total and average home league attendances for the PL. [TABLE=class: tablehead] [TR=class: oddrow team-600-360] [TD=align: right]1 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Manchester United [/TD] [TD=align: right]528,312 [/TD] [TD=align: right]75,473 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: evenrow team-600-359] [TD=align: right]2 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Arsenal [/TD] [TD=align: right]420,681 [/TD] [TD=align: right]60,097 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: oddrow team-600-361] [TD=align: right]3 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Newcastle United [/TD] [TD=align: right]397,082 [/TD] [TD=align: right]49,635 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: evenrow team-600-382] [TD=align: right]4 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Manchester City [/TD] [TD=align: right]374,590 [/TD] [TD=align: right]46,823 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: oddrow team-600-364] [TD=align: right]5 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Liverpool [/TD] [TD=align: right]357,783 [/TD] [TD=align: right]44,722 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: evenrow team-600-363] [TD=align: right]6 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Chelsea [/TD] [TD=align: right]333,117 [/TD] [TD=align: right]41,639 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: oddrow team-600-366] [TD=align: right]7 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Sunderland [/TD] [TD=align: right]241,613 [/TD] [TD=align: right]40,268 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: evenrow team-600-368] [TD=align: right]8 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Everton [/TD] [TD=align: right]256,102 [/TD] [TD=align: right]36,586 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: oddrow team-600-367] [TD=align: right]9 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Tottenham Hotspur [/TD] [TD=align: right]287,961 [/TD] [TD=align: right]35,995 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: evenrow team-600-362] [TD=align: right]10 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Aston Villa [/TD] [TD=align: right]242,080 [/TD] [TD=align: right]34,582 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: oddrow team-600-371] [TD=align: right]11 [/TD] [TD=align: left]West Ham United [/TD] [TD=align: right]275,596 [/TD] [TD=align: right]34,449 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: evenrow team-600-376] [TD=align: right]12 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Southampton [/TD] [TD=align: right]243,110 [/TD] [TD=align: right]30,388 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: oddrow team-600-336] [TD=align: right]13 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Stoke City [/TD] [TD=align: right]189,751 [/TD] [TD=align: right]27,107 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: evenrow team-600-381] [TD=align: right]14 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Norwich City [/TD] [TD=align: right]185,919 [/TD] [TD=align: right]26,559 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: oddrow team-600-370] [TD=align: right]15 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Fulham [/TD] [TD=align: right]178,915 [/TD] [TD=align: right]25,559 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: evenrow team-600-383] [TD=align: right]16 [/TD] [TD=align: left]West Bromwich Albion [/TD] [TD=align: right]200,461 [/TD] [TD=align: right]25,057 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: oddrow team-600-338] [TD=align: right]17 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Reading [/TD] [TD=align: right]168,682 [/TD] [TD=align: right]24,097 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: evenrow team-600-318] [TD=align: right]18 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Swansea City [/TD] [TD=align: right]162,795 [/TD] [TD=align: right]20,349 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: oddrow team-600-350] [TD=align: right]19 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Wigan Athletic [/TD] [TD=align: right]145,989 [/TD] [TD=align: right]18,248 [/TD] [/TR] [TR=class: evenrow team-600-334] [TD=align: right]20 [/TD] [TD=align: left]Queens Park Rangers [/TD] [TD=align: right]124,023 [/TD] [TD=align: right]17,717 [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance/_/league/eng.1/barclays-premier-league?cc=5739 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Is it a general demise in the popularity of football do you think? Anyone know how the attendance figures for the Prem are holding up this year versus the same time in the 2011/12 season? 1 Manchester United 75,387/75,473 2 Arsenal 60,000/60,097 3 Newcastle United 49,935/49,635 4 Manchester City 47,044/46,823 5 Liverpool 44,253/44,722 6 Chelsea 41,478/41,639 7 Sunderland 39,095/40,268 8 Tottenham Hotspur 36,026/35,995 9 Aston Villa 33,873/34,582 10 Everton 33,228/36,586 11 Stoke City 27,225/27,107 12 Norwich City 26,605/26,559 14 Fulham 25,293/25,559 15 West Bromwich Albion 24,798/25,057 18 Swansea City 19,946/20,349 19 Wigan Athletic 18,63318,248 20 Queens Park Rangers 17,295/17,717 http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance/_/league/eng.1/barclays-premier-league?cc=5739 http://soccernet.espn.go.com/stats/attendance/_/league/eng.1/year/2011/barclays-premier-league?cc=5739 First number is last season's average, second is this seasons average so a smaller sample obviously. No real difference there. Total attendances for the league will be higher this season because us, West Ham and Reading are averaging more than Wolves, Bolton and Blackburn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Around 2,100 home seats still available to buy; just under 500 of those in Block 43. The whole of Block 43 isn't available; only around 1/3 of it. I'd imagine (given the non-capacity turnout from both sides) that the segregated area will be fairly sizeable to make stewarding a bit simpler. So we are looking at about 29k then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 So we are looking at about 29k then? That would be a reasonable estimate I reckon. Not terrible by any means; just a surprise to not get through 30K given the proximity of the two sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 That would be a reasonable estimate I reckon. Not terrible by any means; just a surprise to not get through 30K given the proximity of the two sides. Considering last years attendance from both teams in the same game, it's apparent that there is a proportion of fans that prefer 'successful' football over 'premiership football' and that some fans will only turn up to see the bigger teams and players in the prem if their team isn't doing as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Around 2,100 home seats still available to buy; just under 500 of those in Block 43. The whole of Block 43 isn't available; only around 1/3 of it. I'd imagine (given the non-capacity turnout from both sides) that the segregated area will be fairly sizeable to make stewarding a bit simpler. Is this information easily available on the ticketing site, I know you and MLG quote the figures but buggered if I can find them?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Is this information easily available on the ticketing site, I know you and MLG quote the figures but buggered if I can find them?? It's easy but it takes about 5 minutes to put it together. You have to just go into the normal booking system and click into each section and keep a running total of available seats (it lists the number of available seats at the top of each page). I cheated a tiny bit for this one, from memory I know that typically blocks 22 thru 42 are usually pretty much full with a scattering of free seats, also blocks 5 - 10, so I predominantly looked at the other blocks (11-19 are the ones where the empties usually are) and added an extra 100 for the other blocks I didn't bother checking.......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones91 Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 Should have been cat C game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 7 December, 2012 Share Posted 7 December, 2012 It's easy but it takes about 5 minutes to put it together. You have to just go into the normal booking system and click into each section and keep a running total of available seats (it lists the number of available seats at the top of each page). I cheated a tiny bit for this one, from memory I know that typically blocks 22 thru 42 are usually pretty much full with a scattering of free seats, also blocks 5 - 10, so I predominantly looked at the other blocks (11-19 are the ones where the empties usually are) and added an extra 100 for the other blocks I didn't bother checking.......) Ah, cheers, 492 left in block 43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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