Matt Besler

[Hatch]

QPR and Southampton want Matt Besler of MLS club Kansas City

 

Source: Todays Sun

 

25yrs old and MLS defender of the year.

[DT]

Defender. Yes please. He's on twitter at @mbesler. Wiki says he is a practicing Catholic. This meaningless information brought to you to cheer your snowy morning.

[Window Cleaner]

Defender. Yes please. He's on twitter at @mbesler. Wiki says he is a practicing Catholic. This meaningless information brought to you to cheer your snowy morning.

 

Does he follow the pope on @pontifex

[DT]

No, but he does follow Bible Scripture. Probably good at crosses.

[tajjuk]

Bit worrying that he isn't a USA international?

[Saint_clark]

Bit worrying that he isn't a USA international?

 

He's been in the squad, though not since august.

[Window Cleaner]

He's been in the squad, though not since august.

 

so that would mean a work permit application might be difficult then. Don't think they'll believe us when we tell them he's an exceptional talent again, not with Tadanari Lee and Mayuka rotting in the U21s.

[The Kraken]

Excellent, another low risk target with bags of proven Premier League experience.

[Window Cleaner]

Excellent, another low risk target with bags of proven Premier League experience.

 

still probably not much agent's fee involved, seems to be a prime factor in our recruitment.

[Saint_clark]

I think everyone should remember this is another one sentence rumour from The Sun, they seem to have a random rumour generator.

[DT]

They probably just went big on the Saint/religious connection

[eelpie]

I think everyone should remember this is another one sentence rumour from The Sun, they seem to have a random rumour generator.

 

That's the Sun Sports Editor you're talking about.

[tajjuk]

so that would mean a work permit application might be difficult then. Don't think they'll believe us when we tell them he's an exceptional talent again, not with Tadanari Lee and Mayuka rotting in the U21s.

 

Was less worried about the work permit and more about the current USA defenders and what that says about his ability. Isn't Bocanegra still a USA regular at the back?

[Smirking_Saint]

I cant see him being a target for us or old satchel face at all tbh

[Patrick Bateman]

Was less worried about the work permit and more about the current USA defenders and what that says about his ability. Isn't Bocanegra still a USA regular at the back?

 

Yep and Stoke's Geoff Cameron.

[shurlock]

Was less worried about the work permit and more about the current USA defenders and what that says about his ability. Isn't Bocanegra still a USA regular at the back?

 

Still would give the England team a run for its money. Home-grown premiership players are overpriced garbage.

[The Kraken]

Still would give the England team a run for its money. Home-grown premiership players are overpriced garbage.

 

Yep. Every single one of them.

[shurlock]

Yep. Every single one of them.

 

Did I say that? Have a biscuit.

[DT]

you kind of did

[DT]

maybe if you'd said 'most' it would have prevented people thinking you meant what you wrote exactly.

[shurlock]

you kind of did

 

It was more 'in general' than 'every single one' or 'all'. Off the top of your head, who's the best value, home-grown player?

[The Kraken]

It was more 'in general' than 'every single one' or 'all'. Off the top of your head, who's the best value, home-grown player?

 

Value, as in value for their current side? Or as in who would provide the most value as a transfer?

[tajjuk]

Yep and Stoke's Geoff Cameron.

 

I think he is playing right back for Stoke, I know little of the USA national team but their current list of defenders (from wiki) is -

 

2 DF Timothy Chandler March 29, 1990 (age 22) 9 0 1. FC Nuremberg

3 DF Carlos Bocanegra (captain) May 25, 1979 (age 33) 110 14 Racing de Santander

7 DF Maurice Edu April 18, 1986 (age 26) 42 1 Stoke City

20 DF Geoff Cameron July 11, 1985 (age 27) 11 0 Stoke City

21 DF Clarence Goodson May 17, 1982 (age 30) 34 3 Brøndby

23 DF Fabian Johnson December 11, 1987 (age 24) 10 0 1899 Hoffenheim

 

Don't know much about Chandler or Johnson, Edu is more a midfielder and isn't playing for Stoke, Cameron is playing right back for Stoke, Bocanegra is playing for Santander who are second division and Goodson is playing for Brondby.

 

Not exactly a collection of people playing for top clubs keeping him out of the squad.

[shurlock]

Value, as in value for their current side? Or as in who would provide the most value as a transfer?

 

A transfer that has provided value for a current side - and preferably a recent transfer.

Edited 5 December, 2012 by shurlock

[once_bitterne]

Is he a CB or FB? At 6ft he's would not be a big imposing CB.

[The Kraken]

A transfer that has provided value - and a recent one.

 

Kyle Walker was decent.

 

Edit: not even sure where this is going. There are quite clearly some excellent value homegrown signings, just as there are some vastly overpriced ones too. Not dissimilar to foreign import signings.

Edited 5 December, 2012 by The Kraken

[JackanorySFC]

I think everyone should remember this is another one sentence rumour from The Sun, they seem to have a random rumour generator.

 

Having worked for the Sun I can assure you that is complete b*****s. Every rumour has been supplied by a source (mostly agents, but surprisingly often the PR manager of a club, ie Sibley, the player or the players parents) and is double checked.

 

Your impression of a bunch of blokes making stuff up for a laugh is miles away from the truth, would be interesting for people with clearly no understanding of how a sports desk works to spend some time with the genuinely talented (and incredibly well connected) scribes at a national. I remember Cortese in the office sucking up to Mike Dunn (Sun sports editor) over the "South Coast Club" thing! Having worked on the Times too whilst the main editorial are obviouely very different, the sports desks are incredibly competitive and of similar quality (columnists a different matter, The Times beasts any other national IMO with Slot, Dickenson, Marcotti etc).

 

By the way, I'm actually a huge fan of how our club seems water tight in terms of leaks, and the fact Cortese was doing what he thought was best at the time for SFC. Also I rarely read the Sun now I don't work there as the front half of the paper is admittedly full of rubbish about X Factor, I'm a celeb etc. Actually only buy it for the sport on a Monday. Just always amuses me that every time there is a newspaper rumour someone doesn;t like, they resort to the pathetic "well it's in the Sun/ Mirror/ Mail so it won't be true" etc etc.

[shurlock]

Kyle Walker was decent.

 

Edit: not even sure where this is going. There are quite clearly some excellent value homegrown signings, just as there are some vastly overpriced ones too. Not dissimilar to foreign import signings.

 

There was some paper done by economists showing that clubs overpay for home-grown players relative to their value -as measured by individual and team achievements. I'm not for buying unknown yanks just as I'm not for buying unknown japs but the real value is overseas.

[The Kraken]

Just always amuses me that every time there is a newspaper rumour someone doesn;t like, they resort to the pathetic "well it's in the Sun/ Mirror/ Mail so it won't be true" etc etc.

 

It is the way of the mongboard, unfortunately. Even Alan Nixon (who during the summer got all of our signings spot on in advance) was derided when the targets we were clearly looking at weren't acceptable to the SWF masses.

[The Kraken]

There was some paper done by economists showing that clubs overpay for home-grown players relative to their value -as measured by individual and team achievements. I'm not for buying unknown yanks just as I'm not for buying unknown japs but the real value is overseas.

 

Greater value? Lower cost, I'd suggest (which can lead to greater value).

 

But then sometimes its worth paying that bit extra because you have a much better idea of what you're going to get. Such as Saints; Yoshida is still a bit of an unknown roll of the dice, Clyne was by far the better value deal IMO.

[Village Saint]

Having worked for the Sun I can assure you that is complete b*****s. Every rumour has been supplied by a source (mostly agents, but surprisingly often the PR manager of a club, ie Sibley, the player or the players parents) and is double checked.

 

Your impression of a bunch of blokes making stuff up for a laugh is miles away from the truth, would be interesting for people with clearly no understanding of how a sports desk works to spend some time with the genuinely talented (and incredibly well connected) scribes at a national. I remember Cortese in the office sucking up to Mike Dunn (Sun sports editor) over the "South Coast Club" thing! Having worked on the Times too whilst the main editorial are obviouely very different, the sports desks are incredibly competitive and of similar quality (columnists a different matter, The Times beasts any other national IMO with Slot, Dickenson, Marcotti etc).

 

By the way, I'm actually a huge fan of how our club seems water tight in terms of leaks, and the fact Cortese was doing what he thought was best at the time for SFC. Also I rarely read the Sun now I don't work there as the front half of the paper is admittedly full of rubbish about X Factor, I'm a celeb etc. Actually only buy it for the sport on a Monday. Just always amuses me that every time there is a newspaper rumour someone doesn;t like, they resort to the pathetic "well it's in the Sun/ Mirror/ Mail so it won't be true" etc etc.

 

For once a post on here that has made me really laugh out loud. This is teh standard of irony that most posters can only dream of. Top marks.

[Lazlo78]

I think he is playing right back for Stoke, I know little of the USA national team but their current list of defenders (from wiki) is -

 

2 DF Timothy Chandler March 29, 1990 (age 22) 9 0 1. FC Nuremberg

3 DF Carlos Bocanegra (captain) May 25, 1979 (age 33) 110 14 Racing de Santander

7 DF Maurice Edu April 18, 1986 (age 26) 42 1 Stoke City

20 DF Geoff Cameron July 11, 1985 (age 27) 11 0 Stoke City

21 DF Clarence Goodson May 17, 1982 (age 30) 34 3 Brøndby

23 DF Fabian Johnson December 11, 1987 (age 24) 10 0 1899 Hoffenheim

 

Don't know much about Chandler or Johnson, Edu is more a midfielder and isn't playing for Stoke, Cameron is playing right back for Stoke, Bocanegra is playing for Santander who are second division and Goodson is playing for Brondby.

 

Not exactly a collection of people playing for top clubs keeping him out of the squad.

 

Clarence Goodson is shockingly bad. Really, really bad. His club is last in the top league and his non-performances have played no little part in this decline...

[Wes Tender]

Having worked for the Sun I can assure you that is complete b*****s. Every rumour has been supplied by a source (mostly agents, but surprisingly often the PR manager of a club, ie Sibley, the player or the players parents) and is double checked.

 

 

And therein lies the weakness in your argument, as the Agents are the ones with the largest pecuniary interest in fabricating rumours. They do so to raise interest in their clients, or to ratchet up the players' values by suggesting that there is widespread interest in their players, when often there is not.

 

It is precisely for these sorts of reasons that people are sceptical about what you admitted yourself to be "rumours". It would be quite possible to make up a "rumour" as a journalist and when questioned about it, say that you were not prepared to say from whom the information was received, so as not to jeopardise your source's identity. Undoubtedly the journos do have access to contacts in the game where they receive accurate information tip-offs, but the trouble is that unless they develop a reputation for getting them right, a giant pinch of salt is the perfect accompanyment to most of these rumours.

[Turkish]

It is the way of the mongboard, unfortunately. Even Alan Nixon (who during the summer got all of our signings spot on in advance) was derided when the targets we were clearly looking at weren't acceptable to the SWF masses.

 

Nixon was a classic. He was stalked by many on here, his word was gospel. Except for example the week before the transfer window when he said that we didn't know which centre back we wanted and that it we weren't in a good position. Then he was clueless, how would he know what was going on at our club and who we were interested in? etc etc.

[Dig Dig]

I think everyone should remember this is another one sentence rumour from The Sun, they seem to have a random rumour generator.[/quote

 

People will believe it or dis-believe it to suit their agenda as always.

[shurlock]

I think everyone should remember this is another one sentence rumour from The Sun, they seem to have a random rumour generator.[/quote

 

People will believe it or dis-believe it to suit their agenda as always.

 

Don't mention the a-word...plenty on here with a self-styled persecution complex.

[tajjuk]

Clarence Goodson is shockingly bad. Really, really bad. His club is last in the top league and his non-performances have played no little part in this decline...

 

 

Yet he's keeping one of transfer targets out of an average ish national team.

 

Also agree with the above that we need a more physically imposing centre back and at 6 foot he doesn't sound like one, we need an upgraded version of Jos as we have two centre backs in Fonte and Yoshida that are more the 'Ferdinand' mould than the 'Vidic' mould.

[Dig Dig]

All that's important really is just who is trying to sign the lad?

 

Adkins?

 

Non-Adkins?

 

Committee?

 

NC?

 

A combination?

 

As he's from abroad and I've never heard of him I'd say he is a non Adkins, semi committee Les Reed target.

[Saint Charlie]

All that's important really is just who is trying to sign the lad?

 

Adkins?

 

Non-Adkins?

 

Committee?

 

NC?

 

A combination?

 

As he's from abroad and I've never heard of him I'd say he is a non Adkins, semi committee Les Reed target.

 

I reckon this is an example of Reed acting outside the confines of the Committee. IMO if we sign him it is 100% Reed and Adkins won't even know who the lad is when he turns up for training.

 

The key will be if his agent agrees a "must play" clause with Reed - then we are in trouble because the lad must be crap because he doesn't play Intl footy.

[Dig Dig]

I reckon this is an example of Reed acting outside the confines of the Committee. IMO if we sign him it is 100% Reed and Adkins won't even know who the lad is when he turns up for training.

 

The key will be if his agent agrees a "must play" clause with Reed - then we are in trouble because the lad must be crap because he doesn't play Intl footy.

 

 

Seems that way to me. Reed will probably get the agent fee waived (which will of course please Cortese) in exchange for a "must play" clause I suspect.

 

Would love to be a fly on the wall to see Adkins reaction when this lad turns up for training unannounced and reports straight to Guly as per Reeds instructions.

 

Poor fella.

[Turkish]

And therein lies the weakness in your argument, as the Agents are the ones with the largest pecuniary interest in fabricating rumours. They do so to raise interest in their clients, or to ratchet up the players' values by suggesting that there is widespread interest in their players, when often there is not.

 

It is precisely for these sorts of reasons that people are sceptical about what you admitted yourself to be "rumours". It would be quite possible to make up a "rumour" as a journalist and when questioned about it, say that you were not prepared to say from whom the information was received, so as not to jeopardise your source's identity. Undoubtedly the journos do have access to contacts in the game where they receive accurate information tip-offs, but the trouble is that unless they develop a reputation for getting them right, a giant pinch of salt is the perfect accompanyment to most of these rumours.

 

but he quite clearly says that they aren't made up and come from a source which is checked. Hilarious Les telling people thier arguement is weak and trying to argue what journalists might do with someone who has worked at two national newspapers.

[Saint Charlie]

Seems that way to me. Reed will probably get the agent fee waived (which will of course please Cortese) in exchange for a "must play" clause I suspect.

 

Would love to be a fly on the wall to see Adkins reaction when this lad turns up for training unannounced and reports straight to Guly as per Reeds instructions.

 

Poor fella.

 

 

Why do you think some players have "must play" clauses but not others? I reckon Gaston and Yoshida have them TBH.

 

Lots of others teams also use them - I believe Messi has one (Reed probably discussed the approach with Barca when he did that coaching course with them) and I think Ronaldo also does at Madrid and possibly Van Persie at Utd.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I think he is playing right back for Stoke, I know little of the USA national team but their current list of defenders (from wiki) is -

 

2 DF Timothy Chandler March 29, 1990 (age 22) 9 0 1. FC Nuremberg

3 DF Carlos Bocanegra (captain) May 25, 1979 (age 33) 110 14 Racing de Santander

7 DF Maurice Edu April 18, 1986 (age 26) 42 1 Stoke City

20 DF Geoff Cameron July 11, 1985 (age 27) 11 0 Stoke City

21 DF Clarence Goodson May 17, 1982 (age 30) 34 3 Brøndby

23 DF Fabian Johnson December 11, 1987 (age 24) 10 0 1899 Hoffenheim

 

Don't know much about Chandler or Johnson, Edu is more a midfielder and isn't playing for Stoke, Cameron is playing right back for Stoke, Bocanegra is playing for Santander who are second division and Goodson is playing for Brondby.

 

Not exactly a collection of people playing for top clubs keeping him out of the squad.

 

Playing RB for Stoke. But isn't he a CB? Do we have to refer to him permanently as a RB now then?

[Dig Dig]

Why do you think some players have "must play" clauses but not others? I reckon Gaston and Yoshida have them TBH.

 

Lots of others teams also use them - I believe Messi has one (Reed probably discussed the approach with Barca when he did that coaching course with them) and I think Ronaldo also does at Madrid and possibly Van Persie at Utd.

 

Well I think the list of players you mention speaks for itself, Gaston, Yoshida and Guly are our relative equivalents.

[Chez]

Yep and Stoke's Geoff Cameron.

 

out of interest how has Cameron done?

[Big Bad Bob]

Yet he's keeping one of transfer targets out of an average ish national team.

 

Also agree with the above that we need a more physically imposing centre back and at 6 foot he doesn't sound like one, we need an upgraded version of Jos as we have two centre backs in Fonte and Yoshida that are more the 'Ferdinand' mould than the 'Vidic' mould.

 

Yes, but who did Heskie keep out of the England team all those times he was played. Must have had Les Reed as his scout for whoever the England incumbent was at that point...