The little evils of capitalism

[Lord Duckhunter]

It got nationalised, like Northern Rock and RBS. Lord D's suggestion was they should have been allowed to collapse and disappear.

 

That wasn't my suggestion at all. I was just pointing out that propping up failing banks/Companies is not Capitailism. Capitalism will only work if Companies that make bad decisions, Companies that are badly run and Companies that over reach themselves go bust.

 

The worst thing about Capitialism is it allows idiots to make greedy decisions. Take the demutalisation of the Building Societies. People loved it, free money. Not so free now is it? Cheap loans, 125% mortgages.

[pap]

Like saving the earth from meteorites?

 

Food security, energy security, health, prisons, police, housing, all that jazz.

 

It's an extreme view, I know.

[pap]

That wasn't my suggestion at all. I was just pointing out that propping up failing banks/Companies is not Capitailism. Capitalism will only work if Companies that make bad decisions, Companies that are badly run and Companies that over reach themselves go bust.

 

The worst thing about Capitialism is it allows idiots to make greedy decisions. Take the demutalisation of the Building Societies. People loved it, free money. Not so free now is it? Cheap loans, 125% mortgages.

 

And a firm going to the wall has no effect? Creditors, employees, etc.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I get these as well. I usually tell them that the line is bad and to call me back on 0161 234 9230, which just so happens to be the Action Fraud hotline. I would love to know if any of them did.

 

The other bugbear is PPI or personal injury texts. I have found that texting back "P!ss off" stems the tide somewhat.

 

I had one the other day for PI.

 

PI Company: Can I speak to ?

Me: Speaking.

PI Company: We have been informed that you are due £3k in compensation in relation to a crash you had 3 years ago.

Me: Oh really, OK.

PI Company: Can you please give me details of your crash so that we can estimate the compensation that you could claim.

Me: I thought you said it was £3k?

PI Company: Yes, we just have to confirm this. What was the date of the crash?

Me: I don't know, you were the one that told me I had a crash.

PI Company: Our records show that you did.

Me: What is the date on that record?

PI Company: We don't have a date on the record.

Me: You told me I had a crash 3 years ago.

PI Company: ........

Me: .......

PI company: Am I speaking to ?

Me: Yes, I'm speaking.

PI Company: On what date did you have your crash?

Me: Which crash, I had more than 1 crash?

PI Company: The one 3 years ago.

Me: 17th June.

PI Company: Which year?

Me: 3 years ago.

PI Company: So 2009?

Me: Sounds right.

PI Company: Was the crash your fault?

Me: Yes, I drove into a shop.

PI Company: ......

Me: ......

PI Company: Can I please speak to Mr

Me: *Hangs up*

 

Never had a crash (touch wood), but doing this really winds them up.

[the stain]

Food security, energy security, health, prisons, police, housing, all that jazz.

 

It's an extreme view, I know.

 

Oh. You confused me by saying "mission critical". I started to think of space and possible alien invasions. What is mission critical?

[Tokyo-Saint]

[video=youtube;-7OgWcwgB50]

[View From The Top]

[video=youtube;-7OgWcwgB50]

 

That's brilliant.

[Tokyo-Saint]

That's brilliant.

 

He has loads. He is the blueprint of how to deal with sales calls.

[pap]

Oh. You confused me by saying "mission critical". I started to think of space and possible alien invasions. What is mission critical?

 

I think more than anything, that's what we need to work out. But broadly, all those things I mention. I have a real sense of being collectively rudderless at the moment. There is no great commission, no real sense of collective purpose. Stripped of its ideological nemeses in the Eastern Block and its positive associations with concepts like liberty, the naked purpose of capitalism, to make more stuff or money, seems depressingly hollow, yet it's one of the few things we all have in common.

 

We need better ideas. Those can't come about unless we can come to some kind of consensus as to what is important. Right now, things are as important as their marketing budget dictates. Really no way to carry on.

[the stain]

I don't understand the term "mission critical".

 

What you have said, pap, is that food, housing,energy etc are mission critical. That doesn't help because I don't understand what that term means. It seems to be "something that is important". In which case you seem to be suggesting that all things that are important should be removed from private business and at the same time saying you're not advocating communism.

 

Basically, I have no idea what you're on about.

 

It would help a lot if you could define "mission critical".

[pap]

I don't understand the term "mission critical".

 

What you have said, pap, is that food, housing,energy etc are mission critical. That doesn't help because I don't understand what that term means. It seems to be "something that is important". In which case you seem to be suggesting that all things that are important should be removed from private business and at the same time saying you're not advocating communism.

 

Basically, I have no idea what you're on about.

 

It would help a lot if you could define "mission critical".

 

Mission critical = stuff we can't live without.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Like a diet coke version of mission impossible

[Turkish]

Mission critical = stuff we can't live without.

 

Saintsweb is misson critical. So are chips.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I don't understand the term "mission critical".

 

What you have said, pap, is that food, housing,energy etc are mission critical. That doesn't help because I don't understand what that term means. It seems to be "something that is important". In which case you seem to be suggesting that all things that are important should be removed from private business and at the same time saying you're not advocating communism.

 

Basically, I have no idea what you're on about.

 

It would help a lot if you could define "mission critical".

 

You know what he means. It's the base of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, those parts of life that are needed to be able to move onto the next stage, and something that is imperative to the way the species lives. The way I read it is that these provisions should be controlled by the state so that people can gain these without having to deal with capitalists trying to make money out of it. These baser principles would help to improve society.

[Colinjb]

There really needs to be a 'little evils of socialism' thread to balance this out.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Like a diet coke version of mission impossible

 

Mega Lolz.

[pap]

Saintsweb is misson critical. So are chips.

 

I endorse the first statement. Juvenile unit #1 would endorse the second.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I've just got off the phone with an Indian fellow called Peter. Nice chap. Took the trouble of making an international phone call to tell me that his company had detected problems with my computer. Of course, the poor fellow stumbled when I asked the simple question "what's my name". He was close to a breakdown, only able to utter the words "That's good to know" toward the end of our conversation, after an extended diatribe from myself, including the question "how do you look your kids in the eye and tell them that you make your living by trying to con English people into installing software they don't need or infecting their machines?". I do feel a bit guilty, but at the same time; this stuff really irks me. It's one of the little evils of capitalism.

 

There are many more. I'm sure even the most ardent right winger would have one or two in the locker; guaranteed if they've ever listened to talkSPORT.

 

What are your little evils of capitalism?

 

The trouble is he probably barely makes a living. I have made a point of being polite to these callers because they are after all just trying to earn a wage. It is their bosses I have my quarrel with.

[Barry Sanchez]

Never was a communist state either. There have been dictatorships with planned economies. Not quite the same thing.

 

As for people making billions after the fall of communism, the main Russian beneficiaries were the bureaucratic class. Abramovich's brilliant money-making scheme? Sell state- subsidised natural resources at market prices. That's it.

 

Capitalism shouldn't be allowed anywhere near anything that is "mission-critical". I'm all in favour of planned economy principles for the essentials of life.

 

What was never a communist state either? I dont disagree with you but what is your point exactly?

[Tokyo-Saint]

The trouble is he probably barely makes a living. I have made a point of being polite to these callers because they are after all just trying to earn a wage. It is their bosses I have my quarrel with.

 

They are still earning a living ripping people off, whether it is Roger the dodger or Fagan, they are both in the wrong, just one is richer than the other. They are computer literate English speakers in a booming economy, there would be other opportunities out there.

[pap]

The trouble is he probably barely makes a living. I have made a point of being polite to these callers because they are after all just trying to earn a wage. It is their bosses I have my quarrel with.

 

Yeah, that's why I felt a bit guilty. Hate the game, not the players, right Sergei?

[Barry Sanchez]

The game we all play though, do you own a house pap or rent one from social housing?

[Tokyo-Saint]

The game we all play though, do you own a house pap or rent one from social housing?

 

What size bra does your Mrs wear Baz?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

They are still earning a living ripping people off, whether it is Roger the dodger or Fagan, they are both in the wrong, just one is richer than the other. They are computer literate English speakers in a booming economy, there would be other opportunities out there.

 

My experience of dealing with BT is that they are not always computer literate and English speakers.

 

I am polite though and normally just make small talk about cricket before putting saying my goodbyes

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Yeah, that's why I felt a bit guilty. Hate the game, not the players, right Sergei?

 

The whole world plays the game.

[Barry Sanchez]

What size bra does your Mrs wear Baz?

 

God knows, the question is relevant.

[Tokyo-Saint]

My experience of dealing with BT is that they are not always computer literate and English speakers.

 

I am polite though and normally just make small talk about cricket before putting saying my goodbyes

 

Out sourced call centres set up by legitimate companies is a different from a call centre set up to defraud people by getting them to install software they don't need while posing as Microsoft.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Out sourced call centres set up by legitimate companies is a different from a call centre set up to defraud people by getting them to install software they don't need while posing as Microsoft.

 

I prefer the Nigerians, at least they aim big and just email me

[buctootim]

They are still earning a living ripping people off, whether it is Roger the dodger or Fagan, they are both in the wrong, just one is richer than the other. They are computer literate English speakers in a booming economy, there would be other opportunities out there.

 

 

The organisation I work for looked into setting up an office in Delhi last year and were horribly surprised how much they would have to pay for exactly those skills, not much different from the UK pay rates.

[Barry Sanchez]

I prefer the Nigerians, at least they aim big and just email me

 

[Barry Sanchez]

The organisation I work for looked into setting up an office in Delhi last year and were horribly surprised how much they would have to pay for exactly those skills, not much different from the UK pay rates.

 

But in the UK we have to pay insurance, possibly pensions, sickness and holidays. Outsourcing for cheap labour is immoral.

[the stain]

Mission critical = stuff we can't live without.

 

Thank you for clearing that up. I'd be happy if the state controlled all things deemed MC. For me, MC includes:

Energy

water

education

food

housing

 

However, id be concerned about the lack of competition in the food industry. Would there only be one type of state produced baken beans about? What would happen to all of the Heinz employees? Or do you mean agriculture? Do you think governments should set limits on the price of food?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Thank you for clearing that up. I'd be happy if the state controlled all things deemed MC. For me, MC includes:

Energy

water

education

food

housing

 

However, id be concerned about the lack of competition in the food industry. Would there only be one type of state produced baken beans about? What would happen to all of the Heinz employees? Or do you mean agriculture? Do you think governments should set limits on the price of food?

 

I think that's the only one in all honesty that would not really be possible nowadays, although I have to say I'm not that clued up on how Communist states produced and sold food.

[Barry Sanchez]

I think that's the only one in all honesty that would not really be possible nowadays, although I have to say I'm not that clued up on how Communist states produced and sold food.

 

They produced little and sold even less. Just look at the Chinese food famines and North Koreans.

[the stain]

I think that's the only one in all honesty that would not really be possible nowadays, although I have to say I'm not that clued up on how Communist states produced and sold food.

 

Here are my ideas:

1. Only a certain % of the crops grown in any country can be exported.

2. State controlled farms to operate in each country, along with private enterprise. State farms to produce crops which is turned into food at minimal cost and sold through state supermarkets, aimed at those on low income. There would obviously be fewer options and choices for consumers in these shops, but the alternative supermarkets would still exist.

3. A cerrtain % of land in urban environments to be designated for allotments which are offered to individuals on a annual lease which can be renewed, to a maximum of 4 years, if the person can prove land productivity. Vegetables etc produced can be eaten by person or sold on for profit.

4. International organisations such as UN and World Bank to invest heavily in education in rural areas of poor countries, providing agricultural education on efficient techniques which will boost food production.

5. Outlawing of commodity speculation, reducing it's impact on food prices.

6. An international pledge to ensure that the % of income spent on food per family in every country is set to a reasonable level, through increased food availability, state intervention and subsidies and a commitment to increasing wages in developing countries (bit harder to achiever this one)

[Barry Sanchez]

Here are my ideas:

1. Only a certain % of the crops grown in any country can be exported.

2. State controlled farms to operate in each country, along with private enterprise. State farms to produce crops which is turned into food at minimal cost and sold through state supermarkets, aimed at those on low income. There would obviously be fewer options and choices for consumers in these shops, but the alternative supermarkets would still exist.

3. A cerrtain % of land in urban environments to be designated for allotments which are offered to individuals on a annual lease which can be renewed, to a maximum of 4 years, if the person can prove land productivity. Vegetables etc produced can be eaten by person or sold on for profit.

4. International organisations such as UN and World Bank to invest heavily in education in rural areas of poor countries, providing agricultural education on efficient techniques which will boost food production.

5. Outlawing of commodity speculation, reducing it's impact on food prices.

6. An international pledge to ensure that the % of income spent on food per family in every country is set to a reasonable level, through increased food availability, state intervention and subsidies and a commitment to increasing wages in developing countries (bit harder to achiever this one)

 

I have only gotten to reading the first bit of the first bit but you have just killed Ukraine.

[Barry Sanchez]

Here are my ideas:

1. Only a certain % of the crops grown in any country can be exported.

2. State controlled farms to operate in each country, along with private enterprise. State farms to produce crops which is turned into food at minimal cost and sold through state supermarkets, aimed at those on low income. There would obviously be fewer options and choices for consumers in these shops, but the alternative supermarkets would still exist.

3. A cerrtain % of land in urban environments to be designated for allotments which are offered to individuals on a annual lease which can be renewed, to a maximum of 4 years, if the person can prove land productivity. Vegetables etc produced can be eaten by person or sold on for profit.

4. International organisations such as UN and World Bank to invest heavily in education in rural areas of poor countries, providing agricultural education on efficient techniques which will boost food production.

5. Outlawing of commodity speculation, reducing it's impact on food prices.

6. An international pledge to ensure that the % of income spent on food per family in every country is set to a reasonable level, through increased food availability, state intervention and subsidies and a commitment to increasing wages in developing countries (bit harder to achiever this one)

 

There are a few wholes in that whole process, oil and gas are the key elements for most things regardless of the whats produced to being cheap, human labour of course but as times goes by people become more and more empowered the wealthier they get.

[the stain]

Do you have any suggestions about food security? I'm nterested in hearing from pap who introduced this idea of mission critical issues.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

 

What are your little evils of capitalism?

 

Tories.

 

[Barry Sanchez]

Do you have any suggestions about food security? I'm nterested in hearing from pap who introduced this idea of mission critical issues.

 

Yes, unless we have a sole leader of the World (benign dictator) then the free market right or wrong will reign when it comes to the World's resources.

[the stain]

Thats not a suggestion. You seem to be saying you don't care.

[Hamilton Saint]

I phoned my local newpaper's subscription department to let them know that the paper had not been delivered that day. I got to speak with someone in Mumbai, India.

 

I thought that was pretty outrageous. So, I called the paper's business department to suggest they might employ local people to do that job, instead of shipping the work overseas, so that they could pay the employees less. The nice lady I talked to about this was in Kingston, Jamaica.

[the stain]

What had happened to your paper?

[pap]

Do you have any suggestions about food security? I'm nterested in hearing from pap who introduced this idea of mission critical issues.

 

Sorry mucker; haven't had the opportunity to respond until now.

 

First of all, it is encouraging to see the thought you put into your proposals. Few bother to qualify their opinions with quite as much clarity. As for workability, I think most sensible things are workable as long as the will exists to make them work. For me, it comes down to a question of priorities. My personal opinion is that our first priority as humans is to sort the basics out, the mission-critical stuff if you like.

 

I've mentioned this before but I've read an article which suggests that the UK would be 71% self-sufficient if imports stopped tomorrow. I'd actually back us to do better. We are very good in a crisis.

 

In terms of alternate ideas about how you might secure food security, I'd suggest that most of the systems are already in place to do that. Consider the supply chain scenario of your local supermarket. They have a finite range of products which are largely determined by market research and/or successful trials in other locations. Each product has a unique bill of materials. Whether TESCO do it themselves or contract a third-party to do it, collectively, humanity knows how to bring a sausage roll to market. You can be assured that when someone says "ah, yeah - 100K more sausage rolls for TESCO in Bursledon", a system will be working behind the scenes, generating the relevant work orders, purchase orders to make sure it happens.

 

I love the idea of a planned economy for basic food; as long as the basic standard is of a high quality; setting the standards for those who operate in the private sector. I've always found it amazing that the absolute cheapest food is the worst for you. I'd even argue that capitalism, and specifically, gradations within markets - have given rise to gastronomic abominations, such as the Pop Tart, Micro Chips or my personal favourite, the Pot Noodle - a dire product backed up by stupendously good advertising. Then you've got the purely practical decisions that people on low incomes are forced to make, buying sub-standard foods to hit a certain market. Bernard Matthews made his fortune on the premise that eating mechanically recovered turkey knackers was 'bootiful'.

[pap]

Yes, unless we have a sole leader of the World (benign dictator) then the free market right or wrong will reign when it comes to the World's resources.

 

Love that you're back, dune.

[the stain]

Sorry mucker; haven't had the opportunity to respond until now.

 

First of all, it is encouraging to see the thought you put into your proposals. Few bother to qualify their opinions with quite as much clarity. As for workability, I think most sensible things are workable as long as the will exists to make them work. For me, it comes down to a question of priorities. My personal opinion is that our first priority as humans is to sort the basics out, the mission-critical stuff if you like.

 

I've mentioned this before but I've read an article which suggests that the UK would be 71% self-sufficient if imports stopped tomorrow. I'd actually back us to do better. We are very good in a crisis.

 

In terms of alternate ideas about how you might secure food security, I'd suggest that most of the systems are already in place to do that. Consider the supply chain scenario of your local supermarket. They have a finite range of products which are largely determined by market research and/or successful trials in other locations. Each product has a unique bill of materials. Whether TESCO do it themselves or contract a third-party to do it, collectively, humanity knows how to bring a sausage roll to market. You can be assured that when someone says "ah, yeah - 100K more sausage rolls for TESCO in Bursledon", a system will be working behind the scenes, generating the relevant work orders, purchase orders to make sure it happens.

 

I love the idea of a planned economy for basic food; as long as the basic standard is of a high quality; setting the standards for those who operate in the private sector. I've always found it amazing that the absolute cheapest food is the worst for you. I'd even argue that capitalism, and specifically, gradations within markets - have given rise to gastronomic abominations, such as the Pop Tart, Micro Chips or my personal favourite, the Pot Noodle - a dire product backed up by stupendously good advertising. Then you've got the purely practical decisions that people on low incomes are forced to make, buying sub-standard foods to hit a certain market. Bernard Matthews made his fortune on the premise that eating mechanically recovered turkey knackers was 'bootiful'.

 

We're a couple of good eggs. We should pat ourselves on the back. Although I'm actually ow more concerned about Hamilton Saints newspaper situation. Is this included in Mission Critical?

[pap]

We're a couple of good eggs. We should pat ourselves on the back. Although I'm actually ow more concerned about Hamilton Saints newspaper situation. Is this included in Mission Critical?

 

It's certainly a little evil of capitalism, but not one that goes unremarked.

 

Outsourcing call centres to places like India has been a universally unpopular move. No-one likes it, and you have banks like NatWest trading on their local personnel. I think it's particularly hard to take in countries like the US and UK because we were told we'd be a service economy after all the manufacturing went - yet this huge part of our service economy was being moved too, audibly so.

 

Large corporations are shareholder-conscious. The moment one company is established in the Far East, its competitor will have to have a presence there to remain stock-competitive. If, over 10 years, company X looks like it'll makes more money than company Y because it has lower operational costs afforded by cheap labour, companies will buy company X stock. Doesn't matter how good your brand is; it's a race to the bottom.

[Barry Sanchez]

Love that you're back, dune.

 

You did not answer the question, do you have your own house or do you rent? Nice throw off about Dune, I am going to the game Saturday, I will be in the Arkles if you would like to join me and my mate for a pint, we are good fellows? Then you can defo vouch I am not this Dune or whatever.

[the stain]

That's all well and good but let's not forget the human face of this tragedy. Hamilton Saint doesn't have his newspaper.

[pap]

You did not answer the question, do you have your own house or do you rent? Nice throw off about Dune, I am going to the game Saturday, I will be in the Arkles if you would like to join me and my mate for a pint, we are good fellows? Then you can defo vouch I am not this Dune or whatever.

 

I didn't answer the question for a couple of reasons . First, it's not your business (but not important). Second, dune or not, you're a needy little bollix. Take it as read I won't be responding to every one of your posts. Last, you're probably dune.

 

If you're in the Arkles and you spot me, say hello.