washsaint Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Really encouraging seeing the Luke Shaw statement in the tabloids about how he loves it at Southampton and doesn't want to go anywhere else. And if we can tie him down to a 5 year contract like JWP then maybe we are on the verge of being able to keep our younger stars as opposed to feeding Arsenal, Spurs, etc. So, now we are in the Prem and have cash do we really believe we can keep hold of our brilliant young talent? And, for those lucky enough to see the U21s and U18s.....who do you think will be the next one(s) to make the breakthrough? It really feels like our club is going places and the support for NA at games (from what I have seen on the Tv here in the US) is real impressive...unlike some of the bedwetters that inhabit this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Even arsenal and United cannot keep their best players. What hope do we have? We will be able to hold onto them longer though if we stay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 I don't even understand the OP's question. If Arsenal offer £12m for Luke Shaw, what do you suggest we do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 What hypo said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 If Arsenal offer £12m for Luke Shaw, what do you suggest we do? If we need the money sell him, if we don't then don't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 If we need the money sell him, if we don't then don't? Youve listed possibilities but not answered the question - what should we do in that situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Youve listed possibilities but not answered the question - what should we do in that situation? Impossible to answer as I don't know what our financial situation is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 I don't even understand the OP's question. If Arsenal offer £12m for Luke Shaw, what do you suggest we do? If we need the money sell him, if we don't then don't? Youve listed possibilities but not answered the question - what should we do in that situation? We probably don't have the final say in truth, and the club is likely to be forced into accepting what the player and his agent insist upon. Contract or not, I can't see us saying "stay, or rot in the reserves" to keep a potentially disgruntled player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 I don't even understand the OP's question. If Arsenal offer £12m for Luke Shaw, what do you suggest we do? Demand 15 million like Oxo, take the money and run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Watch us try and cling on to Ramirez if he carries on playing the way he is. Big clubs will come knocking and he will be off. All we can hope for is that the don screws as much cash out of the deal as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 12m for shaw. Negotiate 20 with a 50% sell on clause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 One of the differences is I thought we were to build our side from the Academy...if that's the case we have to keep hold of these type of players going forward. But to answer your question, we are in a better position, but if a big team wants our players, the no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintmonkey1979 Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Watch us try and cling on to Ramirez if he carries on playing the way he is. Big clubs will come knocking and he will be off. All we can hope for is that the don screws as much cash out of the deal as possible And you know he will. He's very good at it in fairness, although I am too scared to contemplate his techniques Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 And you know he will. He's very good at it in fairness, although I am too scared to contemplate his techniques Maybr it's a Southampton thing cos Lowe was very good at it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 So, now we are in the Prem and have cash do we really believe we can keep hold of our brilliant young talent? If we stay in the PL, yes - that's really all there is too it. One can dream of parallels with the late 90's Man U - "you win nothing with kids"... Who's to say we cannot become giants of the south to challenge the might of the north? The new crop of kids seem to possess a level of loyalty far above anything that has gone before - probably a far better in-house culture - and most importantly they can see the opportunity to play regular top class football here if they're good enough which must be tremendous motivation. How many Brit kids do you see in other top PL sides? Fair do's to Theo & Gareth, they had to be sacrificed in the interests of survival as they were the only tradable assets we had, Oxy was plain greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 To answer the original question, no. We are far from established in the prem. If we go down, the young players who have had a chance in the bigtime may want to leave. It will be difficult to keep them. If we stay up, ambitious players could well have their heads turned by the big boys. Money and agents are big influences. Our current position assists, but players and bigger clubs usually get what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 If a Champions league club comes knocking..........no unless the player has some sense and actually wants to play some football, I mean JWP is struggling to get into our team so he would be no where near Man Utds etc. If we get relegated...............no, they might stay for a bit in the championship but if they started playing well they would go. We should be financially sound though to get good deals for them, eek out as muchmoney as possible and get good sell on clauses etc. Stay in the prem, get more established and we should be able to keep hold of most, but the most talented will go to the bigger clubs, but then that's the reality even for clubs like spurs and arsenal, I doubt they will be able to hold onto Bale for much longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 I don't even understand the OP's question. If Arsenal offer £12m for Luke Shaw, what do you suggest we do? Tell them he's not for sale and does not want to step down to Arsenal anyway. He has seen how they failed to develop Wallcott properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Tell them he's not for sale and does not want to step down to Arsenal anyway. He has seen how they failed to develop Wallcott properly. Failed Walcott Oh how I lol England regular, arsenal regular, been to a World Cup, champions league regular Tell you what, he will have a host of top clubs after him should he wish to leave arsenal As for the step down comment Oh, I lol'd again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 The only clubs in the World that are not selling clubs and stepping stones are Real Madrid and Barcelona for foreign players and Manchester United for English ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Failed Walcott Oh how I lol England regular, arsenal regular, been to a World Cup, champions league regular Tell you what, he will have a host of top clubs after him should he wish to leave arsenal As for the step down comment Oh, I lol'd again Walcott hasn't failed however - 'England Regular' - not really, squad regular maybe. 'Arsenal Regular' - not this season, has more substitute appearances than starts. 'been to a world cup' - didn't play and wasn't selected for 2010. Not a failure but maybe not as good as he could have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Walcott hasn't failed however - 'England Regular' - not really, squad regular maybe. 'Arsenal Regular' - not this season, has more substitute appearances than starts. 'been to a world cup' - didn't play and wasn't selected for 2010. Not a failure but maybe not as good as he could have been. I don't know. His lack of natural technique will always hold him back, and if there is one team that you would want a player struggling with technique to go to it would be Arsenal surely. I think his career, barring his injuries has gone pretty much as well as he could have hoped given his talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Back to the original question, yes, but we must keep in the Premiership if we're ever to fulfil the top ambition and hold the young stars from now on. Its not only holding them, first we have to produce them, we know about Shaw and JWP but are there more in the pipeline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsaint Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 I wouldn't get overly excited by the fact JWP signed a 5 year contract, they're not worth the paper they're printed on these days. All it means is if another club wants to sign him they'll have to fork out a hell of a lot more to do so, which is extra money in the clubs coffers. The club make a big song and dance about him pledging his future to the club, and it appeases the supporters, but it isn't hard to read between the lines. In response to the original question, we will always be a selling club, I'm afraid that's how modern football is. We'll never be big enough to tempt players to stay should the Man United's and Chelsea's of the world come a knocking, every player has a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 If the club is in a good financial position and the player is happy to stay then we should keep him. I think NC's idea is that like Ajax a player leaves and there is another starlet to follow. Perhaps we are in a new phase where players who wish to play first team football stay at clubs instead of sitting on the bench. Ultimately though the pull of the CL will become too much nd we will stay in the cycle of losing our top young players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingwing Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Even Barcalona and Real Madrid sell players when the right money comes along. We are in a great position to hang on to our kids not because of finances but because we can give them starting places in Premier League football. No other team in the prem has their first choice LB of Danny Fox and no second choice. Same for the midfield we only have 2 senior central midfielders that can defend and at least 2 who can attack, injuries and suspensions create first team opportunities there so long as the kids are good enough. It's exciting in a sense because we have bought real quality over the summer instead of quantity on the basis we can give the youth a chance. If we don't stay up then yeah it wont work as well but we should stay up which means more premier league places for more kids. United loose their youngsters because the kids of 15-20 years ago are still playing and Fergie has no confidence/wont give the new ones a chance. Completely different to us for now and I think we have a good opportunity to turn around to most premier league teams demand 20-30 million and probably have the player reject them because of lack of first team opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 I wouldn't get overly excited by the fact JWP signed a 5 year contract, they're not worth the paper they're printed on these days. All it means is if another club wants to sign him they'll have to fork out a hell of a lot more to do so, which is extra money in the clubs coffers. The club make a big song and dance about him pledging his future to the club, and it appeases the supporters, but it isn't hard to read between the lines. This is very true, however the signing of a 5-year contract is a significant statement IMO. If JWP was of the mindset that he wanted to jump ship as soon as a massive payday came knocking then he (or his agent, at least) would be very aware that being tied down to a 5-year contract is going to make it much harder for the interested club to do the deal, and because of the inflated transfer fee that we would demand, he would have to take a hit on the potential wages on offer as well. So although in signing he is not making a concrete commitment to stay another 5 years, he is definitely reducing the chances of leaving - unless we get relegated, or he turns out to be amazing and a ridiculous offer comes in from Barc/Real/ManU etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Failed Walcott Oh how I lol England regular, arsenal regular, been to a World Cup, champions league regular Tell you what, he will have a host of top clubs after him should he wish to leave arsenal As for the step down comment Oh, I lol'd again I expect Jermanie Pennant wishes he'd failed like Walcott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Walcott hasn't failed however - 'England Regular' - not really, squad regular maybe. 'Arsenal Regular' - not this season, has more substitute appearances than starts. 'been to a world cup' - didn't play and wasn't selected for 2010. Not a failure but maybe not as good as he could have been. He is a regular at arsenal bar a contract dispute and injuries He is a regular in the champions league and scored a few He gets picked for almost every squad when fit and plays in most competitive games... Either as a sub or a starter And that is a failure at 23, according to some??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 I don't even understand the OP's question. If Arsenal offer £12m for Luke Shaw, what do you suggest we do? Not sell him. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 The very top young players will always go to the top teams. Now we are in and if we stay in the premier league we will be in a position to hold on to them for longer, like AOC did they wont want and need to leave because they want premier league football. This will mean when we do come to sell we aren't selling uproven players with potential, we'll be selling excellent young players with premier league experience which means bigger ££££ for us. We should be able to keep hold of the level below that though, the level of Jame Beattie was at with us, not quite international level but not far off and then sell them when it's right for us or them, not because they get to 19 and want bigger and better things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
student Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Shaw will go in a few years imo but he is a 20m player for me. Going to be englands leftback for years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 To be a Prem side a club needs players who have transfer values in multi-million numbers. Buys such as JRod and Ramirez have already shown that. If Academy players are the solu8tion to avoid paying out so much in fees it would not make sense to sell them when their value rises because the outcome would probably be relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Mullet Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Yes, I do believe we can keep hold of our young talent. In fact I think we are in the best position to do that for many years. It does depend on the individual though. Some will run at the first sight of their favorite 'big team' (Walcott was like a kid in a sweet shop when Arsenal came calling and he had a chance to join his hero Henry) or by anyone offering stupid wages, sign-on fees etc (AOC). Some will also go elsewhere if their talent and personal ambition outweighs that being offered by the club (Bale) and for this reason we need to establish ourselves as a regular European competition side. On the other hand players like Adam L could have left long ago but love the club and may harbour a personal ambition to become the 'new MLT' and enjoy the benefits of being a big fish in a smaller pond. Fact is, if we nurture young talent and look after them and their families from a young age as we do I think we stand a better chance of hanging on to them. We seem to be instilling pride and loyalty into the youth and long may that continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Mullet Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Shaw will go in a few years imo but he is a 20m player for me. Going to be englands leftback for years I stopped watching the youth/development sides a few years back when the club made it difficult to do so. Do you really think he is that good? I've seen nothing to convince me that he is that good yet. Good for a 17year old and a better option than Fox, yes, but I don't think he's going to be world class. Bale on the other hand was winning games for us pretty much single-handedly at the same age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 I stopped watching the youth/development sides a few years back when the club made it difficult to do so. Do you really think he is that good? I've seen nothing to convince me that he is that good yet. Good for a 17year old and a better option than Fox, yes, but I don't think he's going to be world class. Bale on the other hand was winning games for us pretty much single-handedly at the same age. To be fair, Bale was playing one league down, in a team that won far more than it lost and was one of the strongest in the division. So its a difficult comparison to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itchen_block4 Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 I wouldn't get overly excited by the fact JWP signed a 5 year contract, they're not worth the paper they're printed on these days. All it means is if another club wants to sign him they'll have to fork out a hell of a lot more to do so, which is extra money in the clubs coffers. The club make a big song and dance about him pledging his future to the club, and it appeases the supporters, but it isn't hard to read between the lines. Silly statement. The difference between a long contract and no long contract is the difference between potentially £20m and £10m. If our demands arem't value for money, teams aren't going to pay them and if they do, we'll be laughing all the way to the bank. 5 years is largely symbolic, but it does mean that any negotiation is purely on our terms and he's unlikely to go anywhere for the next 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Not sell him. Simple. Exactly. Obviously there is little we can do to keep a player who is determined to leave, but increasingly it will be the case that provided we can stay in the Premiership and offer them football at a high level, they might prefer to stay here and play first team football rather than reserve football or bench-warming at some glory club. And as this policy of bringing on our academy players to play in our first team continues, they will enjoy the cameraderie of playing alongside their mates who they developed with. With a reputation now of bringing through some of the brightest names in English football within the past few years (and historically during decades before), now we are in the Premiership there is nothing stopping our players being selected for the National team either. Unless we can gain a better player by spending £12 million or so, as we did with Ramirez, why would we not save ourselves that expenditure if we have a player of that calibre already here? If we are offered stupid money and the player wants to move on, then fair enough. But if the player is happy to stay, why wouldn't we want to keep him? In another article, it is suggested that there are three other players additionally to Luke Shaw that Manchester United ought to look at:- http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/luke-shaw-and-three-more-youngsters-fergie-should-prise-from-southampton/ If all four of them can play together in the first team, together with other young talented players like Ramirez, Clyne, Cork, Gazzaniga?, that would be wonderful to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 I expect Jermanie Pennant wishes he'd failed like Walcott. I bet he doesn't, he is an arrogant little sh!t. I bet he thinks he is one of the best, most under rated player in the league and that all his tattoos are cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyboy Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 I don't even understand the OP's question. If Arsenal offer £12m for Luke Shaw, what do you suggest we do? Take the 12m and send them Danny Fox by 'mistake'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Yes and No. Terrible answer but the right one. I'd suggest our record with young players and our dedication to try and bring anybody good enough into the first team set up sets us apart from a number of other clubs. Not many players are one club men anymore, that includes with the biggest clubs, but I should think that if we do things right we can get a lot of our youngsters for some of there better years before they move on for pastures new for large transfer fees that can continue to keep the academy ticking over and allow for the purchase of the occassional established player for the young lads to learn from (if even AL has said it's great learning from Ramirez imagine what the likes of JWP etc must think?) .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsaint Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Silly statement. The difference between a long contract and no long contract is the difference between potentially £20m and £10m. If our demands arem't value for money, teams aren't going to pay them and if they do, we'll be laughing all the way to the bank. 5 years is largely symbolic, but it does mean that any negotiation is purely on our terms and he's unlikely to go anywhere for the next 3 years. You've called my statement silly, and then pretty much wrote the same point I was trying to make. Go you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 Dear oh dear - some people on here seem to place football players in some kind of fourth dimension world! It's no different to you or I - sometimes you find you like working for a company so much, that it would take a daft amount of money to make you even consider a move to another company that's an unknown quantity. Of course in football, if you are playing in the Prem then there's even more attraction as the money and perks are higher etc. etc. Contracts are not really worth too much these days and the power is in the hands of the player. To answer the original poster - yes, of course there's more chance of us keeping our youngsters - if they want to stay here that is. If they don't then they will move on. The club will not resist a bad apple moving on because solid team building and 'together as one' is at the core of the culture of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's There Posted 28 November, 2012 Share Posted 28 November, 2012 As a youngster on a contract at Saints they would:know the expectations, have a home base, be on a great wage comaped to peers outside football, have opportunities to play in Prem- see that it won't stop England managers picking you (AL clearly being closely monitored) and be part of a successful team. They will notice that various "youngsters" have departed to man C etc and are stuck either on the bench or not playing. I reckon most would choose to stay and play until they were mid 20s at least when they can rethink their position, but still be able to command a highly promising fee and be more likely to start matches in the first team of their new club. But hey, that's what I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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