Cheam Saint Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Obviously there are a few good reasons why Saints have turned things around of late. But what do you think is the biggest factor? (Mods, maybe this will make a good poll?) 1. Jack’s Back! 2. Ramirez back from injury 3. Finally worked out that 4.4.1.1 is our best formation 4. Introduction of Luke Shaw has tightened up the defence 5. We’re playing worse teams 6. Jason Puncheon starting to meet his potential 7. We've stopped making so many stupid defensive mistakes 8. Other Personally, I think they all play a part but for me it’s got to be Jack Cork. Absolute quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Combination of all those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Combination of all those. ...is the correct answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheam Saint Posted 26 November, 2012 Author Share Posted 26 November, 2012 The question was which one is the biggest influence. Unless you're saying they're all exactly equally important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 The question was which one is the biggest influence. Unless you're saying they're all exactly equally important. All equally important. We are playing worse teams with our better players fit and available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheam Saint Posted 26 November, 2012 Author Share Posted 26 November, 2012 All equally important. We are playing worse teams with our better players fit and available. I suppose your view of the man of the match on Sunday was they all were exactly the same also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Could be something to do with Adkins taking them away for a few days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 We're playing worse teams. Aston Villa and QPR arent very good, Newcastle are on a bad run. Man City away was a great performance but unsurprsingly their stronger team won. I still think we'll end up lower mid table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 I suppose your view of the man of the match on Sunday was they all were exactly the same also. No, Ramirez was MOTM for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 "The chat" and Adkins disregard for Gulys contractual clause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAS Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Obviously there are a few good reasons why Saints have turned things around of late. But what do you think is the biggest factor? (Mods, maybe this will make a good poll?) 1. Jack’s Back! 2. Ramirez back from injury 3. Finally worked out that 4.4.1.1 is our best formation 4. Introduction of Luke Shaw has tightened up the defence 5. We’re playing worse teams 6. Jason Puncheon starting to meet his potential 7. We've stopped making so many stupid defensive mistakes 8. Other Personally, I think they all play a part but for me it’s got to be Jack Cork. Absolute quality.8. Other, could be Jos H not playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 All excellent points Cheam. But I think our formation is more 4-2-3-1 , with MS or JC covering when the full backs bomb on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saints_is_the_south Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 A settled and consistent side is one of the biggest factors, being able to play our best team 3 games running without change has been a massive plus. Cork's return has been instrumental and we look a lot more solid and less on edge defensively. Ramirez's return from injury also helps and if he carries on in the same vein as he did yesterday then we can look forward to picking up many more points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinR Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Adkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SB Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 For me Remirez fully fit, Shaws confidence and Punch running things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 For me Remirez fully fit, Shaws confidence and Punch running things. I think you have to choose one from the list sexy bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raging Bull Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Jack Cork's ability to close down the ball and break up play, letting the attacking players do what they do best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_saints Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Obviously there are a few good reasons why Saints have turned things around of late. But what do you think is the biggest factor? (Mods, maybe this will make a good poll?) 1. Jack’s Back! 2. Ramirez back from injury 3. Finally worked out that 4.4.1.1 is our best formation 4. Introduction of Luke Shaw has tightened up the defence 5. We’re playing worse teams 6. Jason Puncheon starting to meet his potential 7. We've stopped making so many stupid defensive mistakes 8. Other Personally, I think they all play a part but for me it’s got to be Jack Cork. Absolute quality. All of them, but in order for me: We're playing worse teams We've stopped making so many stupid defensive mistakes Finally worked out that 4.4.1.1 is our best formation Jack's back Introduction of Luke Shaw has tightened up the defence Ramirez back from injury Jason Puncheon starting to meet his potential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 All of them, but in order for me: We're playing worse teams We've stopped making so many stupid defensive mistakes Finally worked out that 4.4.1.1 is our best formation Jack's back Introduction of Luke Shaw has tightened up the defence Ramirez back from injury Jason Puncheon starting to meet his potential All these plus I have reverted to my old grey 'lucky' underwear I last wore in the 1963 cup run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 All of the above (Grey shreddies included) and number 8 : As posted in another thread and based on my QPR season ticket holding Boss's observations, "your players had spirit, belief and worked hard together". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Only one possible explanation. Training montage, [video=youtube_share;s28vNyjOlbc] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Excellent call, pap. I'm with you on that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Cortese having a full squad to pick from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 8. Other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Can you add not shoehorning players into the side in the wrong positiins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 8. Other, could be Jos H not playing? Or Guly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Cork playing Fox not playing Adkins doing things his way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 All these plus I have reverted to my old grey 'lucky' underwear I last wore in the 1963 cup run It was you! I was sat next to you Sunday, I wondered what the bad smell was! I'm getting a seat move for this Wed'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Lamentable really, that when there are multiple possible reasons for our improvements to chose from, some naturally gravitate to the most negative... can someone plaese explain why? What purpose its serves? If we were observing any other club, we would be far more pragmatic, we would look at the combination of factors from the start: - that despite playing some good football in the attacking sense, struggled to get points due to poor defending - a new defensive line up that needed time to gell and play together... - tactical naiviety as we learned how to deal with the quality of the opposition, - the young inexperienced side and Nige trying different combinations with new players..... the promising signs then dissappearing as injuries took hold, and confidence became shattered, to the players back, the defence starting to integrate and a couple of wins that sees confidence return. Early days, as the recent opposition did not put up much of a fight, but even so the way we have played suggests we may have found teh right combination and the players have confidence in each other... Yet many saints fan look at our situation and assume there was something MAJORLY wrong - often giving the perception that they were happy to be able to point to the culprits - based on hearsay, speculation and rumours - despite other sources close to players saying that this was not the case, the same drum get beaten time and again. Everyone makes mistakes - Nige, the players, Cortese, Reed - everyone. When mistakes happen, we have choices, learn from it and move on, or constantly bring it up like a nagging wife bringing up issues from 15 years ago in an argument today. None of us knows the TRUTH as to whether there was any shift in policy that has contributed to the change in fortunes, depsite what some 'want' to believe - but its most telling that there HAS been a chnage in fortunes, so if there HAS been a change in policy, then all parties should be applauded for recognising the need. Shows a fecking great deal more unity at SMS than appears to be amongst the fan base at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 We've played a few not so good and out of form teams, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 We've played a few not so good and out of form teams, no? Sorry no. This argument only counts when we are totting up all the Premier League megapowers we've had to play in the opening weeks. You know, like West Brom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Lamentable really, that when there are multiple possible reasons for our improvements to chose from, some naturally gravitate to the most negative... can someone plaese explain why? What purpose its serves? If we were observing any other club, we would be far more pragmatic, we would look at the combination of factors from the start: - that despite playing some good football in the attacking sense, struggled to get points due to poor defending - a new defensive line up that needed time to gell and play together... - tactical naiviety as we learned how to deal with the quality of the opposition, - the young inexperienced side and Nige trying different combinations with new players..... the promising signs then dissappearing as injuries took hold, and confidence became shattered, to the players back, the defence starting to integrate and a couple of wins that sees confidence return. Early days, as the recent opposition did not put up much of a fight, but even so the way we have played suggests we may have found teh right combination and the players have confidence in each other... Yet many saints fan look at our situation and assume there was something MAJORLY wrong - often giving the perception that they were happy to be able to point to the culprits - based on hearsay, speculation and rumours - despite other sources close to players saying that this was not the case, the same drum get beaten time and again. Everyone makes mistakes - Nige, the players, Cortese, Reed - everyone. When mistakes happen, we have choices, learn from it and move on, or constantly bring it up like a nagging wife bringing up issues from 15 years ago in an argument today. None of us knows the TRUTH as to whether there was any shift in policy that has contributed to the change in fortunes, depsite what some 'want' to believe - but its most telling that there HAS been a chnage in fortunes, so if there HAS been a change in policy, then all parties should be applauded for recognising the need. Shows a fecking great deal more unity at SMS than appears to be amongst the fan base at times. Frankie, do the spikes along the top of the fence that you so regulary place your bottom on feel that good ? Come on, our defence and tactics were utter sh*te. We were losing games due to cretinous defending after getting our nose in front. Something WAS majorly wrong. NA has temporarily at least won the right to do things completely his way, hes found the right players, formation and tactics, and hes ditched one or two underachievers or "not good enough"s. Now, over the last few games, we've realised we can compete at this level, or at least that there are enough teams weaker than us that we have a realistic chance of staying up, and thats affecting confidence and motivation, so hopefully those players who made so mand bloody awful mistakes will stop doing so. The biggest screw-up was our summer transfer activity; the club took the issue of acquiring defenders either too casually or not seriously at all, and thats something that MUST be corrected in January if we are really to stay up. I am just waiting for some unambitious idiot on here to say Shaw, Fonte, Yoshi and Clyne are good enough for the rest of the season though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Ah, the chuckle brothers. They must tweet each other to alert one another when they post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 We've played a few not so good and out of form teams, no? I did think like you, but the theory breaks down when you consider we lost at home to Wigan. Who are pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Ah, the chuckle brothers. They must tweet each other to alert one another when they post. Oh is that what you and Frank do?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Did you know? (Adam Lallana) Has created 25 goalscoring chances this season, only three fewer than Chelsea's Juan Mata. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20486801 Might also have something to do with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 I did think like you, but the theory breaks down when you consider we lost at home to Wigan. Who are pants. Better than QPR though. We were very good against Newcastle but they are out for form, lots of injuries and played on Thursday night. We've been better the last few weeks and having a fit squad to chose from certainly helps, Cork has made a huge difference, but let's not kid ourselves we have suddenly become a team which is going to finish in the top half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 I did think like you, but the theory breaks down when you consider we lost at home to Wigan. Who are pants. Fulham are awful away from home as well, but don't worry, that's not a good point as it goes against what the forum clique says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Frankie, do the spikes along the top of the fence that you so regulary place your bottom on feel that good ? Come on, our defence and tactics were utter sh*te. We were losing games due to cretinous defending after getting our nose in front. Something WAS majorly wrong. NA has temporarily at least won the right to do things completely his way, hes found the right players, formation and tactics, and hes ditched one or two underachievers or "not good enough"s. Now, over the last few games, we've realised we can compete at this level, or at least that there are enough teams weaker than us that we have a realistic chance of staying up, and thats affecting confidence and motivation, so hopefully those players who made so mand bloody awful mistakes will stop doing so. The biggest screw-up was our summer transfer activity; the club took the issue of acquiring defenders either too casually or not seriously at all, and thats something that MUST be corrected in January if we are really to stay up. I am just waiting for some unambitious idiot on here to say Shaw, Fonte, Yoshi and Clyne are good enough for the rest of the season though... Thing about fence sitting Alps is that it requires a bit of balance - so gald you mentioned it! Seriously, No one is denying that we pretty poor on the pitch, no one is denying that it would have been far better had we been able to sign extra quality at the back - but its the assumptions that this was down to some policy, disruption and general crapness in the way we went about things , rather than a pretty natural set of challenges for a side that was newly promoted, had no experience at this level, and because of the rapid rise, may have struggled to appeal to some of our targets, when others came in. Its EASY to assume there is 'fault' - rather tan to accept that as everyone at the club learns, things will get better - the point being that given our lack of experience, its not the mistakes made on the pitch or off it that matter, but how quickly we learn and put things right. My gripe is not with highlighting mistakes, but with the assumptions that its all someones fault. The record from day one suggests that the focus in footballing progress - and yes some of teh more fan friendly issues get ignored, but when it comes to footballing progess, its been year on year - even now we should all admit that we are a better squad than last season and currently sit 6 places higher than in May - to me that is progress, even if slower than most of us would have liked. Shaw and Clyne do need back up, especially Shaw given his age, Fonte seems to be settling and Yoshi is doing OK - yes we need back up or better, but getting better in jan when you are in teh bottom 6 is not going to be easy - how many players want to leave a club in a better position for one in the bottom 6? Its not all about not bothering, or mistakes, sometimes its reflective of our status/position and we need to be aware of that before looking for scapegoats all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Sorry no. This argument only counts when we are totting up all the Premier League megapowers we've had to play in the opening weeks. You know, like West Brom. Who are currently 3rd in the table above the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool. It's a combination of things with Cork, Ramirez and Shaw all coming in at a similar time being influential in the up-turn in form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Fulham are awful away from home as well, but don't worry, that's not a good point as it goes against what the forum clique says. As is ive said before, we'd have beaten them if our right back hasn't got injured and we'd had to play with a centre back at right back who was clearly uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 I am just waiting for some unambitious idiot on here to say Shaw, Fonte, Yoshi and Clyne are good enough for the rest of the season though... IF they maintain their current levels of form and fitness then why should they NOT be good enough? IMHO Fonte was the player I thought would be most out of his depth this season, but he is improving every week. Peachy tells us that Shaw is the new Bale (maybe possibly) well, IF he gets better with more games (and stays fit) who would you replace him with? Yoshida is a crucial part of the style we now play and has shown glimpses. Fact is that we clearly need cover, BUT it has taken this team 10 or so matches to "gel" (Something QPR have failed woefully to do) Would you REALLY advocate replacing all FOUR of our defenders in January as you imply? And who with? Luckily as I don't play FM12 I have no idea on who would be better than we have in the style we play at a price that we can afford. All I know is that we DO need cover and I believe that will come in the shape of a player that is better than what we have. Don't think we will be buying 4 though. That would be a team dynamic disaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbob40 Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Cork coming back clearly is the key. Scoring goals has not been the problem (although most fans, as ever,pay more attention to what we do with the ball rather than what we do without it). The fact that JWP and SD are not defensively minded midfielders has been the problem. In that regard we need to buy/loan a third holding midfielder as cover in January as I now see JWP and SD as being back up for the 3 in the 4-2-3-1 formation which works best for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Number 3. The others you list are factors too but our shape is the main factor imo. Two proper holding midfielders are now protecting the whole 4. They create a platform for the attacking quartet to do there thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 IF they maintain their current levels of form and fitness then why should they NOT be good enough? IMHO Fonte was the player I thought would be most out of his depth this season, but he is improving every week. Peachy tells us that Shaw is the new Bale (maybe possibly) well, IF he gets better with more games (and stays fit) who would you replace him with? Yoshida is a crucial part of the style we now play and has shown glimpses. Fact is that we clearly need cover, BUT it has taken this team 10 or so matches to "gel" (Something QPR have failed woefully to do) Would you REALLY advocate replacing all FOUR of our defenders in January as you imply? And who with? Luckily as I don't play FM12 I have no idea on who would be better than we have in the style we play at a price that we can afford. All I know is that we DO need cover and I believe that will come in the shape of a player that is better than what we have. Don't think we will be buying 4 though. That would be a team dynamic disaster I dont think that I have explicitly stated that all 4 need replacing. I am not convinced by Fonte and Yoshi, and NA needs to think long and hard about the progress Clyne and Shaw have made by January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 I dont think that I have explicitly stated that all 4 need replacing. I am not convinced by Fonte and Yoshi, and NA needs to think long and hard about the progress Clyne and Shaw have made by January. I've not read the whole thread so apologies if I've misunderstood but are you saying you don't rate Clyne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 I dont think that I have explicitly stated that all 4 need replacing. I am not convinced by Fonte and Yoshi, and NA needs to think long and hard about the progress Clyne and Shaw have made by January. I am just waiting for some unambitious idiot on here to say Shaw, Fonte, Yoshi and Clyne are good enough for the rest of the season though... OK, but what did that mean then? Which one isn't good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 Cork coming back clearly is the key. Scoring goals has not been the problem (although most fans, as ever,pay more attention to what we do with the ball rather than what we do without it). The fact that JWP and SD are not defensively minded midfielders has been the problem. In that regard we need to buy/loan a third holding midfielder as cover in January as I now see JWP and SD as being back up for the 3 in the 4-2-3-1 formation which works best for us. Thats the beauty of the 4231 - in that IF the wide players in the 3 (Adam and Punch) ALSO do their bit defensively (wher it becomes a 4411) then you have that versatility - in the attacking sense it can be devastating (See Germany WC2010 etc) and as we see glimpses of when we attack in numbers - in effect becoming a 2251 as the fullbacks also push forward, or 4141 if one of 2 pushes foward in support - I love the sysytem, but does need some pace and awareness of defensive responsibilties and covering when othere push forward. Think we will enjoy seeing a fair few goals, but against better sides be prepared for a few against us still - 4231 can expose a side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 I dont think that I have explicitly stated that all 4 need replacing. I am not convinced by Fonte and Yoshi, and NA needs to think long and hard about the progress Clyne and Shaw have made by January. Agree on the centre backs, maybe I've come to expect them to make an error but I'm not convinced by either, we should get an experienced left back, we shouldn't be relying on a 17 year old with a handful of games all season, especially if we end up in a relegation scrap. Clyne however is getting better and better and proving himself to be an excellent right back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 27 November, 2012 Share Posted 27 November, 2012 It's all those things, however I think the main reason is that the team have got to grips with the league and have gelled together. I think Adkins has played a big role in this as well as he has kept the confidence up and convinced the players that they can compete in this league and compete playing the way they have. The main assumption about QPR's woes is the lack of team cohesion, 'queens park strangers', but with Boruc, Gazza, Clyne, Yoshida, Davis, Ramirez, Mayuka, and Rodriguez we have had a fair few new faces ourselves so maybe that has been a factor as well. This was our line up against coventry last game of the season - 01 Davis 06 Fonte 12 Butterfield 13 Fox 26 Hooiveld 04 Schneiderlin 10 Guly 14 Hammond (Cork - 37' ) 20 Lallana (Puncheon - 82' ) 07 Lambert 11 Sharp And this was the line up Sunday - 12 Gazzaniga 02 Clyne 03 Yoshida 06 Fonte Booked 23 Shaw (Hooiveld - 90' ) 04 Schneiderlin 10 Ramirez Booked (S Davis - 78' ) 18 Cork 20 Lallana 42 Puncheon 07 Lambert (Rodriguez - 76' ) Half the team has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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