Crab Lungs Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 For ages on here we've be told we need pace, that pace is vitally important. We've also had very popular players in the past, namely Antionio and De Ridder, who were quick, but in reality had little else. After watching a quite superb attacking display yesterday from 4 players who whilst not lacking pace are hardly what you'd describe as quick where do people stand on this now? Is pace still vitally important or having watched and admired the touch, movement, guile and ability of Ramirez, Lambert, Lallana and Puncheon is it a FACT that ability and end product is far more important that just having pace? Pace is what the football thickos all wanted. I've reaffirmed a number of times to friends and probably a couple of times on here as well that it's not the most important thing. It's a useful outlet, sure, if you're putting it against tiring centre backs or isolated fullbacks but what is wholly more important, as I've said numerous times before, is that the footballers are technically gifted. We're fortunate enough to have many footballers who possess that all important quality, and that's why we'll be ok. As long as you've got that creativity, that guile, that know-how, then you've got a chance. Equally so defensively as well - if you've got players who are comfortable on the ball under pressure (Cork, Schneiderlin) then that also gives you a better opportunity to retain possession and take the sting out of games. NA predominantly looks for players who some would describe as "proper footballers" - great technique, work ethic and ability. I'd have that over some super-fast, underskilled, hit-or-miss footballer that some Premier League teams seem to go for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasiak-9- Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 I think what we lack (and still do to an extent) is wingers who can run at a full-back one-on-one and take them on, beating them for strength, pace and power like Chamberlain used to. Ramirez, Lallana and Puncheon can twist and turn and cut inside but I wouldn't fancy them one-one-one head-on against a central defender with no support. I'm talking about players like fat Ronaldo in his pomp. He'd just knock it past his opponent and burn them for pace, even if they could catch him, they'd simply bounce off him as he was so strong and one-on-one he could blast it past the keeper with either foot. Now obviously he's the perfect example and it'd be impossible to sign players of his quality, but we do still lack that kind of player. We've had a number of 3/4-on-3/4 counter-attacks throughout our past 3 matches that we should probably be making more of if you want to be critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 This is spot on. Lambert and Lallana have this in bundles and have the ability to pull it off. It's arguable that Ramirez is a level higher than that and Puncheon seems to be benefiting from playing with talented players. The old fashioned English style of two quick wingers running at the fall backs and the ball being played into the big man with a small quick bloke to pick up his flicks is so dated now, it's all about movement and ability, the way we've created openings time after time with good control and touch or flicks and the front 4 being on the same wavelength. It's all very well being able to run fast but if you are on a different level to your team mates on an intelligence level and running up dead ends all the timethen it's pointless. When I watch Gaston, (when things go right mind) it just seems as if he is in slow motion. I know this isn't a great description, and probably something of a cliche, but that's just how it seems to me. He seems to be able to control, steady himself, look around and act effortlessly whilst others are flapping all around him. I may be getting slightly carried away, but I really think this young man has the potential to become a real world beater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 26 November, 2012 Author Share Posted 26 November, 2012 When I watch Gaston, (when things go right mind) it just seems as if he is in slow motion. I know this isn't a great description, and probably something of a cliche, but that's just how it seems to me. He seems to be able to control, steady himself, look around and act effortlessly whilst others are flapping all around him. I may be getting slightly carried away, but I really think this young man has the potential to become a real world beater. I know exactly what you mean, just always seems to have so much time and everything is so effortless. He glides with the ball. The mark of a truely class player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 I think what we lack (and still do to an extent) is wingers who can run at a full-back one-on-one and take them on, beating them for strength, pace and power like Chamberlain used to. Ramirez, Lallana and Puncheon can twist and turn and cut inside but I wouldn't fancy them one-one-one head-on against a central defender with no support. I'm talking about players like fat Ronaldo in his pomp. He'd just knock it past his opponent and burn them for pace, even if they could catch him, they'd simply bounce off him as he was so strong and one-on-one he could blast it past the keeper with either foot. Now obviously he's the perfect example and it'd be impossible to sign players of his quality, but we do still lack that kind of player. We've had a number of 3/4-on-3/4 counter-attacks throughout our past 3 matches that we should probably be making more of if you want to be critical. Why? We don't play with players who can sprint down the wing and swing a ball in. We don't particularly put crosses in, it's more about the fluidity of the movement of the front 4 and interchanging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasiak-9- Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Why? We don't play with players who can sprint down the wing and swing a ball in. We don't particularly put crosses in, it's more about the fluidity of the movement of the front 4 and interchanging. Oh god yeah there's no doubt that that is our strength, but we don't have that real raw impact winger, an Antonio Valencia type player who is really going to burn past defenders no matter how good they are defensively. You'll see what I mean when we play teams like Chelsea, its also why I don't think that Lallana is an international player just yet. Its one thing cutting inside Danny Simpson when you have Gaston Ramirez drawing most of the attention of the opponents, it is quite another taking on Dani Alves/Phillip Lahm/etc. one-on-one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 I know exactly what you mean, just always seems to have so much time and everything is so effortless. He glides with the ball. The mark of a truely class player. Spot on. Check us in agreement, eh Turks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 26 November, 2012 Author Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Spot on. Check us in agreement, eh Turks If we cant agree Ramirez is brilliant then we wont agree on anything. It wont last though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 NA predominantly looks for players who some would describe as "proper footballers" - great technique, work ethic and ability. I'd have that over some super-fast, underskilled, hit-or-miss footballer that some Premier League teams seem to go for... Such as whom ? I'm struggling to think of any. Milner and Barry are technically solid though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 I know exactly what you mean, just always seems to have so much time and everything is so effortless. He glides with the ball. The mark of a truely class player. I said to the lads on Sunday that he glides with the ball. I still think he is getting used to the PL though. He goes down to easy for my liking, but I think he will overcome that. There was a move in the game on Sunday where he was running left, stopped & turned back right in nano seconds. His balance is awesome. That for me is the sign of top quality. Dont know if you noticed, but he was also the ost forward on some occasions too. Lambert was in the hole. Williamson did not follow Lambert & that space got filled by GR. Mind you he still a bit of an unkown & i think PL managers will start to get people to wind him up & start kicking him to get a reaction. Lets hope he continues with the class he clearly has. And for the record, my 10 year old got offered £40m on Fifa13 for him. I told him to sell him, but he said he wouldnt all Saints ever do is sell their best players......................thats why Forecast is still here!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 I said to the lads on Sunday that he glides with the ball. I still think he is getting used to the PL though. He goes down to easy for my liking, but I think he will overcome that. There was a move in the game on Sunday where he was running left, stopped & turned back right in nano seconds. His balance is awesome. That for me is the sign of top quality. Dont know if you noticed, but he was also the ost forward on some occasions too. Lambert was in the hole. Williamson did not follow Lambert & that space got filled by GR. Mind you he still a bit of an unkown & i think PL managers will start to get people to wind him up & start kicking him to get a reaction. Lets hope he continues with the class he clearly has. And for the record, my 10 year old got offered £40m on Fifa13 for him. I told him to sell him, but he said he wouldnt all Saints ever do is sell their best players......................thats why Forecast is still here!! Don't know if he goes down easily by intention, Gaston is a pretty tall bloke and from looking at him I'd say he might have a bit of a high centre of gravity. Thus even if he gets a tap on the ankles when he's going forward he'll probably go ass over tit. Then again he is a Uruguayan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 I know exactly what you mean, just always seems to have so much time and everything is so effortless. He glides with the ball. The mark of a truely class player. I agree completely, when he runs with the ball at his feet his head is always up too, controlling the ball is second nature and he doesn't need to be looking at it, therefore his vision is stunning - and he is always running/ looking/ passing forwards, hardly ever sideways. He is as close to a genuine world class player we've had at SFC since Matty (don't include Bale as he was still a kid when he left), and that's coming from a paid up member of the Lallana/ Cork/ Lambert fan club(s). Watching him (hopefully) develop over the next few years will be the equivalent for me of settling down into my favourite armchair, putting my feet up and opening a cold can of lager with a cracking 4 hours of Super Sunday in front of me with no missus nagging as she's busy making me a roast - Bliss basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 I think what we lack (and still do to an extent) is wingers who can run at a full-back one-on-one and take them on, beating them for strength, pace and power like Chamberlain used to. Ramirez, Lallana and Puncheon can twist and turn and cut inside but I wouldn't fancy them one-one-one head-on against a central defender with no support. I'm talking about players like fat Ronaldo in his pomp. He'd just knock it past his opponent and burn them for pace, even if they could catch him, they'd simply bounce off him as he was so strong and one-on-one he could blast it past the keeper with either foot. Now obviously he's the perfect example and it'd be impossible to sign players of his quality, but we do still lack that kind of player. We've had a number of 3/4-on-3/4 counter-attacks throughout our past 3 matches that we should probably be making more of if you want to be critical. Good post, but courtesy this not at all over simplistic thread, we have now learned that pace is overrated and it has little or no place in the modern game - well according to the experts on here anyway. Presumably those of us still have nightmares about Bale and Lennon ripping our defence a new one just a few weeks ago must be undergoing the SWF equililent of a 'Bobby Ewing in the shower' moment then ..... But at least all those 1000's of Saints fans who only a week ago were demanding the immediate recall of Steve DeRidder have been put in their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 26 November, 2012 Author Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Good post, but courtesy this not at all over simplistic thread, we have now learned that pace is overrated and it has little or no place in the modern game - well according to the experts on here anyway. Presumably those of us still have nightmares about Bale and Lennon ripping our defence a new one just a few weeks ago must be undergoing the SWF equililent of a 'Bobby Ewing in the shower' moment then ..... But at least all those 1000's of Saints fans who only a week ago were demanding the immediate recall of Steve DeRidder have been put in their place. You're not getting it Charlie, bless you. The point being we've had a number of people demand pace when signing players, yet none of the current attacking players, and in Ramirez, who is the best player we've had since MLT in his prime have the seering pace which was demand and has made players popular in the past. In an ideal world you'd want pace and technical ability, but i think this thread is proven that an intelligent player with abilty is far far more effective than a spinter without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Good post, but courtesy this not at all over simplistic thread, we have now learned that pace is overrated and it has little or no place in the modern game - well according to the experts on here anyway. Presumably those of us still have nightmares about Bale and Lennon ripping our defence a new one just a few weeks ago must be undergoing the SWF equililent of a 'Bobby Ewing in the shower' moment then ..... But at least all those 1000's of Saints fans who only a week ago were demanding the immediate recall of Steve DeRidder have been put in their place. Can't say I've ever met any of these... Bale is a genuine world class player as he has the technicaly ability as well as pace. Lennon use to be a bit like De Ridder, but I think he's improved a lot in the last few years so he does have some end product. Let's be fair, Spurs are a top 6 side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Such as whom ? I'm struggling to think of any. Milner and Barry are technically solid though. Was having a discussion with Face about these two useless turds today. The general summary was that they were, quelle surprise, turd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Pace is useful but not essential. Movement, moving the ball quickly, players getting forward of Lambert, high tempo, pressing and doing the unexpected were all evident in Saints' best performance of the season yesterday. Cork and Schneiderlin's work in pressing the opponent's midfield is the platform which allows the front four to do all this. I'd be concerned if a team, for instance, out presses Cork and Schneiderlin and compresses the game. It could happen on Wednesday. In those circumstances it's useful to have pace as an outlet should it be necessary to go long and so as to push back the opponents back four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 You're not getting it Charlie, bless you. The point being we've had a number of people demand pace when signing players, yet none of the current attacking players, and in Ramirez, who is the best player we've had since MLT in his prime have the seering pace which was demand and has made players popular in the past. In an ideal world you'd want pace and technical ability, but i think this thread is proven that an intelligent player with abilty is far far more effective than a spinter without it. Why thanks for the patient explanation - it's all so clear to me now. I'm sure I can speak for many on here when I say that your radical idea that a technically gifted player with average pace, is a better bet than some mug who can only run fast, is a revelation in our understanding of the modern game. It must be frustrating for a man such as yourself, but you must understand that not all of us are on your intellectual level. So when you expound ideas that are quite this deep and insightful some of us are bound to be left trailing in your mighty wake. But Please my friend, promise me now that if you have any more pearls of wisdom of this caliber you won't hesitate to enlighten us with yet another new thread on the subject. Ta very muchly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Ramirez is easily too good for us. Best I've seen in a Saints shirt since MLT I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidshokk Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 It stood out yesterday that Maya has very little... Got done a few times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 It stood out yesterday that Maya has very little... Got done a few times... Weren't it Yoshida who caught up with their player who went clean through and give him the little nudge (penalty!) that made him scuff his shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidshokk Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 That may be true but a few if us noticed a couple of examples where he lost the race as a barcode ran towards our goal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 30 November, 2012 Author Share Posted 30 November, 2012 I agree completely, when he runs with the ball at his feet his head is always up too, controlling the ball is second nature and he doesn't need to be looking at it, therefore his vision is stunning - and he is always running/ looking/ passing forwards, hardly ever sideways. He is as close to a genuine world class player we've had at SFC since Matty (don't include Bale as he was still a kid when he left), and that's coming from a paid up member of the Lallana/ Cork/ Lambert fan club(s). Watching him (hopefully) develop over the next few years will be the equivalent for me of settling down into my favourite armchair, putting my feet up and opening a cold can of lager with a cracking 4 hours of Super Sunday in front of me with no missus nagging as she's busy making me a roast - Bliss basically. You've forgotten about this chap. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/4279680.Smith_s__world_class__abilities_could_save_the_Saints/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 30 November, 2012 Share Posted 30 November, 2012 Was having a discussion with Face about these two useless turds today. The general summary was that they were, quelle surprise, turd Because they're too slow ? Was certainly the case for Barry against Ozil in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 30 November, 2012 Share Posted 30 November, 2012 I think we would have beaten Norwich if we had a bit more pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Saint Posted 30 November, 2012 Share Posted 30 November, 2012 Whereas I think we would have beaten Norwich if we has scored one more goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 30 November, 2012 Share Posted 30 November, 2012 We would have scored one more goal with a bit more pace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 30 November, 2012 Share Posted 30 November, 2012 I think we would have beaten Norwich if we had a bit more pace. Having the benefit of hindsight you may well right. May I refer you to post no67. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 November, 2012 Share Posted 30 November, 2012 We would have scored one more goal with a bit more pace. We were very narrow and congested in the second half -and only Clyne threatened to get behind them but there's only so much he could do. Think some pace further up the pitch would have made a difference in the same way it did against Spurs, freeing up those in the middle. But Mayuka seems to be way down the pecking - would have been the obvious candidate to come on for Punch but instead it was Rodriguez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 30 November, 2012 Share Posted 30 November, 2012 Watching him (hopefully) develop over the next few years . I've already resigned myself to the fact he's probably only here for a season, even if we do stay up. I'm sure that's not what Cortese is thinking though so lets home they can keep him here and happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now