Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Do the replays show him to be conclusively offside? Impossible to tell from the replay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Due to some obscure contractual reason it can't be made available online until Wednesday I think. Saturday's MOTD doesn't go on iplayer at all. From next season, MOTD (from Saturday) will be available on iPlayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del boy Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 funny how other teams seem to go into crisis after being beaten by Saints - it must be so humiliating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Impossible to tell from the replay. No, he was unquestionably inline with the last defender if not marginally behind him when the ball is played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Impossible to tell from the replay. So if it is impossible to tell then the benfit of the doubt should be given to the striker, as per the way the law is interpeted now, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasper57saint Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 I was very impressed with our lads 'getting stuck in' yesterday. Something we've been lacking up to now with the PL 'booters' bouncing our lads all over the place and getting away with it. Williamson was literally wrestling SRL on quite a few occasions but he didn't get booked. The Ref and his 'assistants?' were total tossers and the less said about them the better. Keep this up and we'll have the Scousers in our grasp. COY Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 So if it is impossible to tell then the benfit of the doubt should be given to the striker, as per the way the law is interpeted now, no? 'From the replay'. There is nothing about benefit of the doubt in any of the Laws of the Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 'From the replay'. There is nothing about benefit of the doubt in any of the Laws of the Game. Perhaps someone should tell Steven Gerrard that; he's labouring away under the interpretation that the benefit of the doubt should go with the attacking side. The fool. There is no offside and it’s difficult for me to explain it. The only person who can explain it is the linesman. I asked him after the game if it was offside and he said ’I think so’. That’s not good enough. If every decision in this league is based on ’we think so’ then we’re in trouble. The linesman got it badly wrong. The benefit of the doubt is supposed to go to the attacking player anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Southampton FC @officialsaints More than 20 minutes of extended highlights from yesterday's win over @NUFCOfficial are now on Saints Player: http://sfcne.ws/TeFnKG #saintsfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Mind if I borrow that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Yep, definitely inconculsive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 'From the replay'. There is nothing about benefit of the doubt in any of the Laws of the Game. See Krackers post. So did the linesman get it right or wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Mind if I borrow that? All yours sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Using the lines across the pitch as a marker, he is clearly not offside. He is at best level with the possibility of only his right knee being ahead of the defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 (edited) Using the lines across the pitch as a marker, he is clearly not offside. He is at best level with the possibility of only his right knee being ahead of the defender. decision that stated being "nearer to an opponent's goal line" meant that "any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent. think that should clear it up, JRod knee is evidently nearer than any part of the Toon defender's body(arms don't count) so at that instant he's offside. Edited 26 November, 2012 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Quite frankly, from that image I can't tell either way whether its onside or offside. I don't believe the linesman can have been 100% sure it was offside himself either; in which case, play should have been allowed to continue. If he was 100% sure at the time it was offside, and is still 100% sure it was offside, I would really like to hear his justification for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 FIFA's own guidance: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/5.%20law%2011_554.pdf If an AR [assistant ref] is not totally sure about an offside offence, the flag should not be raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Quite frankly, from that image I can't tell either way whether its onside or offside. I don't believe the linesman can have been 100% sure it was offside himself either; in which case, play should have been allowed to continue. If he was 100% sure at the time it was offside, and is still 100% sure it was offside, I would really like to hear his justification for that. I'm sure that if he was unsure about whether he was 100% sure he surely would not have flagged. That picture shows him offside (ignore any arms) and the linesman is in the perfect position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 I'm sure that if he was unsure about whether he was 100% sure he surely would not have flagged. That picture shows him offside (ignore any arms) and the linesman is in the perfect position. Good for you. But it doesn't show him offside, its debatable at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 I'm sure that if he was unsure about whether he was 100% sure he surely would not have flagged. That picture shows him offside (ignore any arms) and the linesman is in the perfect position. Did he get the decision right or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Perhaps someone should tell Steven Gerrard that; he's labouring away under the interpretation that the benefit of the doubt should go with the attacking side. The fool. This may come as a surprise to some but many professional footballers and tv pundits do not know the laws of the game. The first game of the season after the toss-up ruling was changed Tony Adams won the toss and insisted that he wanted the kick-off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Did he get the decision right or not? he thinks he did and from just the above photo I'd tend to agree with him because it's not just about feet. If 2 players have their feet on the same line but each is leaning forward in the direction that they're playing the attacker is offside. Little known fact perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 This may come as a surprise to some but many professional footballers and tv pundits do not know the laws of the game. The first game of the season after the toss-up ruling was changed Tony Adams won the toss and insisted that he wanted the kick-off. Does Steven Gerrard not know the rules of the game, when he said what he did (which you quoted)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 FIFA's own guidance: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/5.%20law%2011_554.pdf If an AR [assistant ref] is not totally sure about an offside offence, the flag should not be raised. I'm sure that advice still applies but isn't that an old document? If he wasn't sure he wouldn't have raised his flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Does Steven Gerrard not know the rules of the game, when he said what he did (which you quoted)? It would appear not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 I'm sure that advice still applies but isn't that an old document? If he wasn't sure he wouldn't have raised his flag. Was he right to raise his flag? Did he get the decison right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Did he get the decision right or not? From that image it looks like a correct decision to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 he thinks he did and from just the above photo I'd tend to agree with him because it's not just about feet. If 2 players have their feet on the same line but each is leaning forward in the direction that they're playing the attacker is offside. Little known fact perhaps. It would be interesting to be able to hear from the linesman. And get an honest answer. Obviously after emotions had calmed down, and not straight after game; and not to have a witch-hunt of officials. i think they would actually do themselves a favour if they came out and discussed why they gave key decisions. If the came out and said something like "at the time I was sure it was offside, so I flagged. Having reviewed it on TV, its clearly debatable from those images and I don't think they confirm offside one way or the other. However I made an honest assessment of it at the time, believeing that it was definitely offside" then I'd honestly respect that. I don't think the veil of secrecy does referees and assistants any favours; there are many key decisions they make which are criticised at the time but the officials proved right by replay, and they could gain kudos by going through those. Plus, a little learning goes a long way, and players may get a better idea of why refs give particular decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 It would appear not. Really. So this isn't FIFA's own guidance? http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afde...w%2011_554.pdf If an AR [assistant ref] is not totally sure about an offside offence, the flag should not be raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 It would be interesting to be able to hear from the linesman. And get an honest answer. Obviously after emotions had calmed down, and not straight after game; and not to have a witch-hunt of officials. i think they would actually do themselves a favour if they came out and discussed why they gave key decisions. If the came out and said something like "at the time I was sure it was offside, so I flagged. Having reviewed it on TV, its clearly debatable from those images and I don't think they confirm offside one way or the other. However I made an honest assessment of it at the time, believeing that it was definitely offside" then I'd honestly respect that. I don't think the veil of secrecy does referees and assistants any favours; there are many key decisions they make which are criticised at the time but the officials proved right by replay, and they could gain kudos by going through those. Plus, a little learning goes a long way, and players may get a better idea of why refs give particular decisions. That's very true. I also think that all professional footballers would benefit from going on a refereeing course and taking charge of a few games so that they could get a better understanding of what's involved. I expect that if you had 100 different linesmen in that particular situation some of them might very well have allowed play to continue, but it certainly wasn't the worst offside decision I've seen in the last few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 From that image it looks like a correct decision to me. It looks like it? BUt are you 100% sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Really. So this isn't FIFA's own guidance? http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afde...w%2011_554.pdf If an AR [assistant ref] is not totally sure about an offside offence, the flag should not be raised. Gerrard quoted the officialas saying 'I think so'. That seems pretty definite to me. I can't find that guidance in the current documents, which do change regularly, to be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 dear god..he was onside..the cameras clearly show it...I can see why the linesman gave it as at full speed it looked touch and go..but the replays show he was onside.... not really that difficult TBH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 It looks like it? BUt are you 100% sure? Stick me down on the touch line and I'll tell you. Jay's right leg is certainly nearer the goal, and probably his chest as well. Take away the defender's right arm and look again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Stick me down on the touch line and I'll tell you. Jay's right leg is certainly nearer the goal, and probably his chest as well. Take away the defender's right arm and look again. Reckon you could keep up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 What a terrible referee and linesman - truly dreadful! J Rod was not offside and we should have had at least one penalty as well. But what a great performance by Saints! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 I believe it´s hard to fault the linesman too hard for raising his flag on that one. Close yes, probably onside but I think that if we had the same rules as for example NFL the ruling would have stand cause you dont have clear proof that he is onside. On the other hand, I think many referees and linesman are cowards and will rather raise the flag than not when they aren´t 100% sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Reckon you could keep up? There was a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Nah changed my mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 I will say that it is a pleasure to be debating such trivial matters after a very satisfying 2-0 win for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Stick me down on the touch line and I'll tell you. Jay's right leg is certainly nearer the goal, and probably his chest as well. Take away the defender's right arm and look again. SO you are as things stand not 100% sure he was on or offside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 (edited) Whether it was a valid decision or not ( in terms of FIFA rules) depends entirely on what thought entered the linesman's head the instance the ball was kicked. If he thought: "Crikey, that's close - looks like it could be offside to me. I'd better flag it" then he was wrong to raise his flag. However, if he thought: "Ah, look...I can see Rodriguez' kneecap is closer to the goal line than any part of the defender's body - that's a nailed on offside" then it was a valid decision (regardless of whether the TV cameras prove he was right or wrong in retrospect) Given we'll never know whether he put his flag up on a strong hunch (incorrect) or upon a clinical / photographic-esque observation (correct) we'll never know whether he was right or wrong to raise his flag. Good result btw Edited 26 November, 2012 by trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 SO you are as things stand not 100% sure he was on or offside? What is certainty? Is anything 100%? The politician in me would say that it doesn't matter what I think. The moving finger writes, and having writ moves on... and all that stuff. He was off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Whether it was a valid decision or not ( in terms of FIFA rules) depends entirely on what thought entered the linesman's head the instance the ball was kicked. If he thought: "Crikey, that's close - looks like it could be offside to me. I'd better flag it" then he was wrong to raise his flag. However, if he thought: "Ah, look...I can see Rodriguez' kneecap is closer to the goal line than any part of the defender's body - that's a nailed on offside" then it was a valid decision (regardless of whether the TV cameras prove he was right or wrong in retrospect) Given we'll never know whether he put his flag up on a strong hunch (incorrect) or upon a clinical / photographic-esque observation (correct) we'll never know whether he was right or wrong to raise his flag. Good result btw I totally agree. Derry was still incorrect initially though for being absolutely certain that he was offside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Why is offside turning into some faux philisophical debate? Maybe Jay was offside because a butterfly flapped it's wings in South East Asia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 What is certainty? Is anything 100%? The politician in me would say that it doesn't matter what I think. The moving finger writes, and having writ moves on... and all that stuff. He was off. The linesman was in the perfect position, the camera was not. The linesman made a decent decision, especially as the two players were moving in opposite directions. Rodriguez's shoulder, knee and probably head looks goalside of the defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 Why is offside turning into some faux philisophical debate? It's a good sign - it means we've nothing bad to dwell on regarding the team's performance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 The linesman was in the perfect position, the camera was not. The linesman made a decent decision, especially as the two players were moving in opposite directions. Rodriguez's shoulder, knee and probably head looks goalside of the defender. the multiple replays I have seen, with various graphics and lines...he was onside...the linesman got a very tough one wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 26 November, 2012 Share Posted 26 November, 2012 the multiple replays I have seen, with various graphics and lines...he was onside...the linesman got a very tough one wrong Is the correct answer. Derry would never admit it though and yet he wonders why posters find him grating... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now