Saint Troy Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 More abuse i see from people who cant see past their own agendas. I cant believe the mods are letting this continue. It's posters like you that are ruining this forum! Turkish - by your logic earlier in this thread how is what he has written abuse? You cannot see the word he has used. Surely he could have used a word that infers you show fine character, determination and bravery? The fact is it is abuse. Why - because despite the word being missing there is enough evidence there to be able to understand that it is meant in a derogatory way. The same as the chanting aimed at Ferdinand. Chants that Chelsea have seen fit to make an official statement about. There is simply no place for chanting like this and there is no place for standing up for chanting like this. Winding people up on a forum is one thing, can be funny and good banter but at least picjk our battles and show common decency, a lack of this is what is ruining this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 I was singing 'there's only one John Terry' for most of the game on Saturday. I shall also be chanting 'racist, racist' at him when we play Chelsea. I'm not racist, I'm just fickle. I wont be chanting this. As someone that believes in freedom of speech i shall not be abusing John Terry for expressing his right to his opinon, regardless of how adhorant that might be. I would suggest no true Saints fan will join in with your abuse either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Turkish - by your logic earlier in this thread how is what he has written abuse? You cannot see the word he has used. Surely he could have used a word that infers you show fine character, determination and bravery? The fact is it is abuse. Why - because despite the word being missing there is enough evidence there to be able to understand that it is meant in a derogatory way. The same as the chanting aimed at Ferdinand. Chants that Chelsea have seen fit to make an official statement about. There is simply no place for chanting like this and there is no place for standing up for chanting like this. Winding people up on a forum is one thing, can be funny and good banter but at least picjk our battles and show common decency, a lack of this is what is ruining this forum. Again, i must apologies for my chamelon tendancies by leaping to conclusions as to what he meant, he could have suggested i was a damn fine "chap". It seems i am becoming just like the posters on here who are leaping to conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambertsrightleg Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 yeah it was in z5 right behind me. love the way people jump to the conclusion that it was racist.....sure it's not just calling him a grass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 What was interesting on this site was not the stuff about the chanting but the short-cut to Keira Knightly's topless shoot - not sure who did the make-up and the photos but boy she looks hot - thanks ! That shortcut was placed their based on your browsing record. Not much too see of keira knightly I would have though. But to each his own on another note. Puts to bed our fan base having racist elements. Not that it was ever deniable. But glad to see the general reaction on here and that it was 'glared' down at the game. At least no one let Adkins down by doing monkey actions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 I was singing 'there's only one John Terry' for most of the game on Saturday. I shall also be chanting 'racist, racist' at him when we play Chelsea. I'm not racist, I'm just fickle. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 I wont be chanting this. As someone that believes in freedom of speech i shall not be abusing John Terry for expressing his right to his opinon, regardless of how adhorant that might be. I would suggest no true Saints fan will join in with your abuse either. I think his point is, you give abuse to the player/s that are playing our team, without over stepping he mark of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 I think his point is, you give abuse to the player/s that are playing our team, without over stepping he mark of course. abusing his freeness of speech is overstepping the mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Who's freedom of speech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Who's freedom of speech? Mark Clattenburg's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Who's freedom of speech? anyones, but in this instance John Terry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangermouth Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Strikes me there are a lot of people who believe in the freedom of speech. As long as it's said and done in the way they want. Which means I agree with Turkish, in the main. I'm sure you all know the quote by Disraeli about this subject and some of you might have heard about someone called Antonio Gramsci, whose views held pertinence at a somewhat higher level. The right to Freedom of Speech is very wide indeed. This chant does to an extents remind me of a once popular chant: "The referee's a w@nker", which seems to have been replaced by "You don't know what you're doing", which is just a politer version of the same. Please excuse me if I don't reply again to this thread. 3 posts a day and really no desire to post on a forum, but I did (surprisingly) feel that Turkish needed to be backed up on this point because he does make sense, even if many here are antagonistic slightly towards him due to his oft-noted WUM leanings. As for Bearsy's comments that the original chant is/was well-known, um...not by me and while there is unlikely to be more to it than the article which mentions it and so his views are probably correct, I doubt in many other circumstances I would take such 'reference material' as being seminal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 anyones, but in this instance John Terry. But nobody is saying he shouldn't be able to say it, just that he should be judged on it once said! Be racist by all means if that's your bag, but then be labelled as a racist for doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Actually, abusive speech is NOT protected, so that argument doesn't hold. There is no right in UK law to hurl racist insults at someone - and quite right too, IMO. (though noting that John Terry has not actually been found guilty of doing that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 But nobody is saying he shouldn't be able to say it, just that he should be judged on it once said! Be racist by all means if that's your bag, but then be labelled as a racist for doing so. By abusing him you are just a bad for not allowing him to have a right to an opinion that you dont agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 By abusing him you are just a bad for not allowing him to have a right to an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Actually, abusive speech is NOT protected, so that argument doesn't hold. There is no right in UK law to hurl racist insults at someone - and quite right too, IMO. (though noting that John Terry has not actually been found guilty of doing that). Exactly. John Terry was acquitted in a court of law. Those that abuse him are abusing an inocent man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPTCount Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 this made me chuckle tbh, reminds me of the "we've still got our prostitutes" @ Norwich & Ipswich a few years back. admittedly it's not the that good or funny, but I think it's meant to be a humorous take on a current issue, rather than a racist chant. still amazes me that ppl are bothered about a correctly used adjective, and dont care about the c word. in my books this is the same as calling someone a fat/ugly/ginger c*nt. it is observational discrimination intended to get a reaction, rather than a deep rooted hatred of all black/fat/ugly/ginger ppl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbob40 Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Exactly. John Terry was acquitted in a court of law. Those that abuse him are abusing an inocent man. Yes, because it could not be proved beyond all reasonable doubt (criminal burden of proof)despite the judge in the trial expressing reservations as to the testimony given on Terry's behalf. Terry did however lose the FA disciplinary because on a balance of probablities (the civil and lower burden of proof) he was found to have a case to answer. As for Anton Ferdinand he has done nothing wrong and is an innocent victim in all this(+he scored a good goal for us on Saturday so he can't be all that bad). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 By abusing him you are just a bad for not allowing him to have a right to an opinion that you dont agree with. Sorry, are you saying I shouldn't be allowed to do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bender Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 So he should "brush it off" and get on with it? Why? You're contradicting yourself by saying racism is wrong, but so is complaining about it. If something is wrong why should you just accept it? Point is JT looks like a c**t to anyone viewing the clip. Not only that but the FA dealt him a punishment. Why more? Why is deemed as bad a crime as GBH or rape just for calling someone a derogatory name. Its just got ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Sorry, are you saying I shouldn't be allowed to do so? Obviously you are free to do as you wish, however by doing so you will be abusing and innocent man and showing contempt for the right to freedom of speech, what our grandfathers fought for us to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Obviously you are free to do as you wish, however by doing so you will be abusing and innocent man and showing contempt for the right to freedom of speech, what our grandfathers fought for us to have. But by your own definition of respecting freedom of speech I should be free to do so without fear of retribution, so I'm not sure why you appear to be trying to discourage me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 But by your own definition of respecting freedom of speech I should be free to do so without fear of retribution, so I'm not sure why you appear to be trying to discourage me. How is saying you are free to do as you wish, saying that you should be in fear of retribution? Do as you wish, but i hope your concience is clear when you abuse a man who was proven innocent in a court of law and is within his rights to say what he wishes, regardless of what you think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/oct/05/john-terry-judgment-commission John Terry did say the words "****ing black ****" to Anton Ferdinand as an insult The commission rejected the defence Terry had advanced all the way through his criminal trial and FA proceedings. Terry had claimed he used those words only because he was repeating them back to Ferdinand, to deny Ferdinand's accusation that Terry had just called him a "****ing black ****". "We are quite satisfied that the offending words were said by way of insult," the commission concluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/oct/05/john-terry-judgment-commission John Terry did say the words "****ing black ****" to Anton Ferdinand as an insult The commission rejected the defence Terry had advanced all the way through his criminal trial and FA proceedings. Terry had claimed he used those words only because he was repeating them back to Ferdinand, to deny Ferdinand's accusation that Terry had just called him a "****ing black ****". "We are quite satisfied that the offending words were said by way of insult," the commission concluded. Presumably he would sue the FA for defamation if he wasn't a footballer and therefore effectively strong-armed to accept this ruling. Whatever you think of John Terry, his defence or the British legal system, he has no conviction for this incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbob40 Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Anyone who watched that game on sky could lip read what was said -I know I did. Bottom line is Terry is.... IMHO.... a wrong' un (as he had proved time and time again) but for those who are on the Richard Keys, Andy Gray, Ron Atkinson, Rodney Marsh side of the equation good luck to you.....but society is moving on at a pace and you may well be left behind old and bewildered or is that older and more bewildered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 I don't know why this thread got so de-railed. Forget John Terry - what this means is that a vocal minority of Saints Fans were parroting the view that Anton Ferdinand is a '****ing black ****', and supporting it, under the umbrella of 'Banter'. And if people cannot see what is wrong with labelling someone as that, they have something very wrong with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Anyone who watched that game on sky could lip read what was said -I know I did. Bottom line is Terry is.... IMHO.... a wrong' un (as he had proved time and time again) but for those who are on the Richard Keys, Andy Gray, Ron Atkinson, Rodney Marsh side of the equation good luck to you.....but society is moving on at a pace and you may well be left behind old and bewildered or is that older and more bewildered. Regardless of what you think of him and I can't stand the bloke, if you abuse him for a crime he's been acquitted of, you are as bad as those fans who it is aledged and people are assuming were racially abusing Ferdinand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stain Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Point is JT looks like a c**t to anyone viewing the clip. Not only that but the FA dealt him a punishment. Why more? Why is deemed as bad a crime as GBH or rape just for calling someone a derogatory name. Its just got ridiculous. Its not deemed as bad as GBH or rape. That's a ridiculous thing to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 Its not deemed as bad as GBH or rape. That's a ridiculous thing to say. Didn't JT get arrested for GBH one time? I seem to remember something bout it. It's hard to be sure tho cos no-one cared that much and there weren't anywhere near the same press coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxi_sopez Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 On a lighter note does anyone know the speech they played before the players came out... Presume from film but couldn't see screen?! Words were amazing and wanted to watch whatever it is from. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Thomas Posted 19 November, 2012 Share Posted 19 November, 2012 A bloke a few seats away from me kept shouting Choc Ice at him all game. Didn't hear the chant mentioned in the thread, but very sad to hear racist comments still being used at all from our fans, or anyone for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 To be fair, Ferdinand is a pathetic gimp who blew millions on a court case over a little spat, so i don't see the problem with people winding him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyin Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 Strikes me there are a lot of people who believe in the freedom of speech. As long as it's said and done in the way they want. Which means I agree with Turkish, in the main. then blah blah blah blah blah Good grief. Are you for real or am I being a complete ***** for getting totally wound up by the utter BS being churned out by complete knobs on this thread. ****ing free speech, you don't have a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theyin Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 To be fair, Ferdinand is a pathetic gimp who blew millions on a court case over a little spat, so i don't see the problem with people winding him up. No he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 (edited) then blah blah blah blah blah Good grief. Are you for real or am I being a complete ***** for getting totally wound up by the utter BS being churned out by complete knobs on this thread. ****ing free speech, you don't have a clue. More than you do clearly, as you are getting wound up, calling names and generally being abusive at people because they don't agree with you. Edited 20 November, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 To be fair, I'm a pathetic gimp who thinks Anton Ferdinand blew millions on a court case over a little spat, so i don't see the problem with racially abusing him. Fixed it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 20 November, 2012 Share Posted 20 November, 2012 A bloke a few seats away from me kept shouting Choc Ice at him all game. Didn't hear the chant mentioned in the thread, but very sad to hear racist comments still being used at all from our fans, or anyone for that matter. Now the people who said that are obviously thick as Antons brother called someone who testified against him in court w choc ice, very dense, unless of course they were implying that they all look the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted 21 November, 2012 Share Posted 21 November, 2012 Fixed it for you. Halarious. Hundreds of thousands none the less, of tax payers money. I'm sure some people just meant it 'you know what you are, move on'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guan 2.0 Posted 21 November, 2012 Share Posted 21 November, 2012 Halarious. Hundreds of thousands none the less, of tax payers money. I'm sure some people just meant it 'you know what you are, move on'. It's not hilarious, because there's nothing clever or funny chanting something like that. But you seem to now be ok with people more or less saying 'You know you're a ****ing black ****, move on' as if he's at fault for being offended by it. Charming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Charming Man Posted 21 November, 2012 Share Posted 21 November, 2012 I'm constantly shot down on here for assuming the worst of the club without hearing both sides of the story. Though it would appear that logic only applies to the masses when it suits them. The people who were singing that have been branded racists by most on here, despite none of you knowing the exact reasons why they were singing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 November, 2012 Share Posted 21 November, 2012 I'm constantly shot down on here for assuming the worst of the club without hearing both sides of the story. Though it would appear that logic only applies to the masses when it suits them. The people who were singing that have been branded racists by most on here, despite none of you knowing the exact reasons why they were singing it. One needs only read the thread about echo stirring to see how need evidence from both sides to form an opinion. Please give then benefit of the doubt, as many are to the club unless you've heard the story from the alleged racist chanters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 21 November, 2012 Share Posted 21 November, 2012 (edited) I'm constantly shot down on here for assuming the worst of the club without hearing both sides of the story. Though it would appear that logic only applies to the masses when it suits them. The people who were singing that have been branded racists by most on here, despite none of you knowing the exact reasons why they were singing it. The chant has racist connotations -you are deluded if you think otherwise- however, it doesn't mean that those who chanted it are racist. They could be sheep in the long tradition of saints fans mindlessly aping other teams behaviour; or they may have wanted to get a rise out of Ferdinand and anythings fair game. Or yes they may have been racist. Nobody knows. Either way it's not big or clever. Edited 21 November, 2012 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint-crinny Posted 21 November, 2012 Share Posted 21 November, 2012 The chant has racist connotations -you are deluded if you think otherwise- however, it doesn't mean that those who chanted it are racist. They could be sheep in the long tradition of saints fans mindlessly aping other teams behaviour; or they may have wanted to get a rise out of Ferdinand and anythings fair game. Or yes they may have been racist. Nobody knows. Either way it's not big or clever. The chant is used for a variety of reasons, have heard it sang at Terry himself (meaning - you know you are a racist) and also at Van Persie a while back (presumably in relation to rape claims a while back). Think it just gets levelled at players who have done anything that hits the headlines and shows them to a wrong-un. For that reason, i dont really get singing at Anton as i dont believe he has done anything wrong. Annoys me that a minority of our fans would do this. Can only reflect badly on the club, whatever the motivation for singing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 21 November, 2012 Share Posted 21 November, 2012 For that reason, i dont really get singing at Anton as i dont believe he has done anything wrong. Annoys me that a minority of our fans would do this. Can only reflect badly on the club, whatever the motivation for singing it. It could just as well be implying that he's a liar. It's probably not, but the police won't charge you on probability, it's the FA that do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 November, 2012 Share Posted 21 November, 2012 The chant has racist connotations -you are deluded if you think otherwise- however, it doesn't mean that those who chanted it are racist. They could be sheep in the long tradition of saints fans mindlessly aping other teams behaviour; or they may have wanted to get a rise out of Ferdinand and anythings fair game. Or yes they may have been racist. Nobody knows. Either way it's not big or clever. You are speculating. As someone who shouts loudest about being in possession of all the facts and defends SFC until proven otherwise I am disappointed that you have not chosen to apply this on this occasion. You have no idea why they sang it, if they knew what it was about an what they meant by it. Massive tsk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 21 November, 2012 Share Posted 21 November, 2012 You are speculating. As someone who shouts loudest about being in possession of all the facts and defends SFC until proven otherwise I am disappointed that you have not chosen to apply this on this occasion. You have no idea why they sang it, if they knew what it was about an what they meant by it. Massive tsk. Not claiming to know why they sang it or presuming a racist motivation. Where do I say that? But the reasonable man, the man on the clapham omnibus would say that the chant itself, one that had never been heard or sung before the JT incident and chelsea fans sung it in an openly abusive way, has racist connotations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 November, 2012 Share Posted 21 November, 2012 Not claiming to know why they sang it or presuming a racist motivation. Where do I say that? But the reasonable man, the man on the clapham omnibus would say that the chant itself, one that had never been heard or sung before the JT incident and chelsea fans sung it in an openly abusive way, has racist connotations. Wouldn't the reasonable man want to hear both sides of the story before making a judgement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Cunning Stunts Posted 21 November, 2012 Share Posted 21 November, 2012 Wouldn't the reasonable man want to hear both sides of the story before making a judgement? Here's the other side of the story: "We din't know singing that was racist M'Lud. We never even heard of John Terry" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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