This whole Israel thing...

[egg]

What utter, utter, b*ll*cks. They have as much right to that land as the Palestinians.

.

 

On what basis?

Why do they have the right to land grab in the west bank?

Why do they have the right to make incursions?

Were the un wrong to say on countless occasion that these violations by Israel are wrong?

[pap]

What utter, utter, b*ll*cks. They have as much right to that land as the Palestinians.

 

But thanks for revealing your agenda.

 

No they don't.

 

The Israelis have as much right to Palestine as the Romans do for England. They lived there 2,000 years ago.

 

Are you saying that if the Romans turned up tomorrow, we should give up our land?

[hypochondriac]

That's what I always thought. I was completely oblivious, if truth be told, to the seriousness of the situation for a long, long time.

 

However, the media is IMO biased in this country. The don't show what's going on or tell a balanced story. It's up to people who care enough to make others aware.

 

The sad thing is though is that people would rather stuff it to the back of their minds and fill that void with X-Factor, Coronation Street or Take Me Out.

 

TBH though no one really wants to know about loads of bad stuff that is happening miles away. Half of the people don't give a toss about what is happening on their doorstep as long as they get their benefits and their big TVs. And also those sort of distractions have been going on for decades (I really hate the X factor.) We as individuals are largely powerless to do anything but I do think there are fanatics on both sides that just want to wipe the other side off the map. It makes me sad but imo there is no solution.

[Thedelldays]

Lets not pretend we as a country really give a fuk about what goes on over there

 

After all, Blair and labour won comfortably after the Iraq war.

[aintforever]

What utter, utter, b*ll*cks. They have as much right to that land as the Palestinians.

 

But the palestinians don't have their own country and are forced to live in intolerable conditions dictated to by the Israelis. They have every right to be aggrieved.

[pap]

TBH though no one really wants to know about loads of bad stuff that is happening miles away. Half of the people don't give a toss about what is happening on their doorstep as long as they get their benefits and their big TVs. And also those sort of distractions have been going on for decades (I really hate the X factor.) We as individuals are largely powerless to do anything but I do think there are fanatics on both sides that just want to wipe the other side off the map. It makes me sad but imo there is no solution.

 

Why turn a decent point about the priorities of the individual into a crass statement on benefits and large screen TVs?

 

The shame of it is that there is a germ of truth in your comments ( people don't give a f**k ) but you go and mess it all up with some transparent agenda post.

[pap]

Lets not pretend we as a country really give a fuk about what goes on over there

 

After all, Blair and labour won comfortably after the Iraq war.

 

Yeah. I'm sure the rush out of Basra felt victorious, TDD.

[badgerx16]

They have as much right to that land as the Palestinians.

 

What right do a load of Germans, Hungarians, and Russians have to land that has been settled by the Palestinians for hundreds, if not thousands, of years ?

[Thedelldays]

Yeah. I'm sure the rush out of Basra felt victorious, TDD.

 

It's not that. If we really were that appalled. Blair would have been booted out. As it happened, our back pockets were and are more important

 

Just saying......

[hypochondriac]

Why turn a decent point about the priorities of the individual into a crass statement on benefits and large screen TVs?

 

The shame of it is that there is a germ of truth in your comments ( people don't give a f**k ) but you go and mess it all up with some transparent agenda post.

 

I really think you are looking for things in my post that isn't there. Besides I think it is a valid point. This thread is called The whole Israel thing and my point is (as Crab Lungs was saying) that largely people do not care. Do you not consider that worthy of discussion? Sad if so.

[pap]

It's all about Iran, according to Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks.

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2012/11/its-got-do-iran-chief-rabbi-caught-guard-today-programme

[pap]

I really think you are looking for things in my post that isn't there. Besides I think it is a valid point. This thread is called The whole Israel thing and my point is (as Crab Lungs was saying) that largely people do not care. Do you not consider that worthy of discussion? Sad if so.

 

Dude, there is a whole section of this forum that I rarely post in ( Motoring ), largely because I have nothing to say on the issue.

 

If I followed your example, I'd post on each and every one of those threads saying I don't care, because bratwurst and shopping are more important. I don't; largely because I don't have a strong conviction either way. If I even attempted to wade into that forum with my limited knowledge and conviction, I'd expect to be pulled up.

 

It's perfectly valid to say that you're not interested and that you don't care, but that's about the extent of it. Adds nothing to the debate though.

[pap]

It's not that. If we really were that appalled. Blair would have been booted out. As it happened, our back pockets were and are more important

 

Just saying......

 

It's a fair enough point - IF you accept that not everyone cared. That kind of acceptance is difficult against the backdrop of the demonstrations, the largest the UK has ever seen.

[hypochondriac]

Dude, there is a whole section of this forum that I rarely post in ( Motoring ), largely because I have nothing to say on the issue.

 

If I followed your example, I'd post on each and every one of those threads saying I don't care, because bratwurst and shopping are more important. I don't; largely because I don't have a strong conviction either way. If I even attempted to wade into that forum with my limited knowledge and conviction, I'd expect to be pulled up.

 

It's perfectly valid to say that you're not interested and that you don't care, but that's about the extent of it. Adds nothing to the debate though.

 

I think you misunderstand me. I quite clearly said that I do care. I was talking about the British public in general as well as questioning the protest choices of those who were waving flags outside of West Quay.

[Thedelldays]

It's a fair enough point - IF you accept that not everyone cared. That kind of acceptance is difficult against the backdrop of the demonstrations, the largest the UK has ever seen.

agree...but nearly all of the country DIDNT protest...using a PR sort of thingy... ;-)

[buctootim]

What utter, utter, b*ll*cks. They have as much right to that land as the Palestinians.

 

But thanks for revealing your agenda.

 

Perhaps the most likely history of Palestine is that modern day Palestinians were orginally Jews who stayed in situ and later converted to Christianity and subsequently Islam. Modern day Jews left with advent of Christianity - thereby presumably forfeiting their right to the land 'given to them by God' because they abandoned it. Palestinians meanwhile stayed and retained that right. Its a bit rich to turn up in an area after 1,500 years demanding the return of the land your ancestor sold to his brother.

http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html

Edited 18 November, 2012 by buctootim

[egg]

I think you misunderstand me. I quite clearly said that I do care. I was talking about the British public in general as well as questioning the protest choices of those who were waving flags outside of West Quay.

 

You said

 

"no one really wants to know about loads of bad stuff that is happening miles away"

[Crab Lungs]

Kicking off again on here... naval gunfire.

 

http://www.ustream.tv/occupiedair/collection/0a017fc3b74a

 

F()ck off Israel.

[hypochondriac]

You said

 

"no one really wants to know about loads of bad stuff that is happening miles away"

 

I know. No one meaning the British public.

[hypochondriac]

The ITV news is certainly giving the Palestinian perspective.

[pap]

Perhaps the most likely history of Palestine is that modern day Palestinians were orginally Jews who stayed in situ and later converted to Christianity and subsequently Islam. Modern day Jews left with advent of Christianity - thereby presumably forfeiting their right to the land 'given to them by God' because they abandoned it. Palestinians meanwhile stayed and retained that right. Its a bit rich to turn up in an area after 1,500 years demanding the return of the land your ancestor sold to his brother.

http://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/01/shared-genetic-heritage-of-jews-and.html

 

Interesting article, but not remotely surprising - given the broad definition of Semite. I love the genetic proof angle.

[Polaroid Saint]

Maybe I misunderstood the OP, however I did think this thread was about thoughts on the CURRENT situation in Israel/Palestine. Which is but the latest development in a horrid bitter war between two religious factions in area where both 'should' be living peaceably.

 

It's a complete red herring to start talking about 'rights' to land and harking back to the Romans and European émigrés and such like in regard to Israel itself. As of today, Israel is a completely legitimate state. To say otherwise displays a lack of historical, geographical and political knowledge (no shame in that of course, why should we all know the complex history of the middle east?).

 

However, like any state that starts invading its neighbours, Israel needs to be brought in line by the 'international community'.

 

The problem with that goes way beyond a supposed Zionist conspiracy or some shared ideology with 'the west' and hinges more on the nuclear issue with Iran - something the 'international community' cares more about than dead children and bombed hospitals.

 

Israel is currently run by an extremist government intent on subjugation and oppression, one that is happy to use excessive force with little, none or fabricated cause. Unfortunately, this is a familiar story all around the world.

 

So, to answer the original post, my thoughts are; yes, a BJ here or there would certainly help chill everyone the F*&% out, but it won't stop the hatred and violence in the long run.

 

Finally, my personal opinion is that the only real solution will arrive when people stop believing in some fictional beardy bloke in the sky and arguing who's best (Jesus, Moses, Mohammed or Mammon). And then the whole world will be better off.