This whole Israel thing...

[badgerx16]

What does that have to do with grabbing land in another state? My point was land grab, occupation and human rights breaches in 2012 You responded by referring to a nazi practice from the 1920's. Random.

 

No - the lebensraum comment was ironic. It refers back to the point raised earlier concerning the possibility that the Israelis may have learned a thing or two from the Holocaust.

[egg]

Does a state have the right to publicly declare that should one of it's neighbours be granted 'non-member' status at the UN it will take action to remove the leader of that neighbour and destabilise it's government ?

 

( "However, Mr Lieberman was quoted last week by Israeli Channel 10 TV as saying he would ensure that the Palestinian Authority "collapses" if its unilateral UN bid went ahead."

 

Avigdor Lieberman is the Israei Foreign Minister

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20322405

)

 

As for the two-party state, how manageable does the West Bank look under the proposals on the table ?

 

 

Let me know when you've finally finished amending and I'll reply.

[badgerx16]

Let me know when you've finally finished amending and I'll reply.

 

Go ahead.

[egg]

No - the lebensraum comment was ironic. It refers back to the point raised earlier concerning the possibility that the Israelis may have learned a thing or two from the Holocaust.

 

That wasn't a point made by me. I ain't said nothing about the holocaust. I'm more concerned about the present and the future.

[egg]

Does a state have the right to publicly declare that should one of it's neighbours be granted 'non-member' status at the UN it will take action to remove the leader of that neighbour and destabilise it's government ?

 

( "However, Mr Lieberman was quoted last week by Israeli Channel 10 TV as saying he would ensure that the Palestinian Authority "collapses" if its unilateral UN bid went ahead."

 

Avigdor Lieberman is the Israei Foreign Minister

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20322405

)

 

As for the two-party state, how manageable does the West Bank look under the proposals on the table ?

 

 

What? You've now referred to a 1920's nazi ideology and a 1993 idea!!! You're not supposed to dredge random things off Wiki and throw them in without relevance, context or an actual point or question.

[badgerx16]

What? You've now referred to a 1920's nazi ideology and a 1993 idea!!! You're not supposed to dredge random things off Wiki and throw them in without relevance, context or an actual point or question.

 

You have conflated 2 things, but neither is 'random' nor 'dredged off Wiki', ( it is dredged off the BBC news site ) : (1) the lebensraum comment was a reflection on earlier allusions to the Holocaust, and prompted by your line "The Israelis think they can steal the homes and land of others because you need a bit more space."

 

(2) the 1993 idea, the Oslo accord for a 2-party state, is exactly what the Israelis are proposing NOW ! ( From the linked BBC report : "The Palestinian state would be based in Area A of the West Bank, where Palestinians would have control over security and civilian matters, and Area B, where Palestinians would have control over civilian issues alone." )

[egg]

You have conflated 2 things, but neither is 'random' nor 'dredged off Wiki', ( it is dredged off the BBC news site ) : (1) the lebensraum comment was a reflection on earlier allusions to the Holocaust, and prompted by your line "The Israelis think they can steal the homes and land of others because you need a bit more space."

 

(2) the 1993 idea, the Oslo accord for a 2-party state, is exactly what the Israelis are proposing NOW ! ( From the linked BBC report : "The Palestinian state would be based in Area A of the West Bank, where Palestinians would have control over security and civilian matters, and Area B, where Palestinians would have control over civilian issues alone." )

 

1. Irrelevant to today.

 

2. Irrelevant to today.

[badgerx16]

 

2. Irrelevant to today.

 

How is a news story from the BBC. dated 14th November 2012, irrelevant to today ?

[egg]

How is a news story from the BBC. dated 14th November 2012, irrelevant to today ?

 

Because its about a historical nazi idea, not Israelis bombing the sh1t out of Palestinians and stealing their land which was the point to which you began your replies.

[badgerx16]

Because its about a historical nazi idea, not Israelis bombing the sh1t out of Palestinians and stealing their land which was the point to which you began your replies.

 

There you go again :

 

Point 1 : an allusion to a possible historical perspective, harking back to possible Israeli motives for their 'aggression' towards their neighbours. A point discussed by several posters on this thread.

 

Point 2: A query regarding CURRENT israeli political motives, potential aggressive acts to interfere directly in the government of a neighbour, and the viabiity of what the Israelis are CURRENTLY proposing as a 2-state solution.

 

( I get the feeling I'm beginning to repeat myself ).

[egg]

There you go again :

 

Point 1 : an allusion to a possible historical perspective, harking back to possible Israeli motives for their 'aggression' towards their neighbours. A point discussed by several posters on this thread.

 

Point 2: A query regarding CURRENT israeli political motives, potential aggressive acts to interfere directly in the government of a neighbour, and the viabiity of what the Israelis are CURRENTLY proposing as a 2-state solution.

 

( I get the feeling I'm beginning to repeat myself ).

 

You're not repeating yourself. This is the first time you've made ant attempt to explain the possible relevance of your points .

 

1. I've made no comment on motivation. Frankly, I can't be can't bothered with discussion about why the Israelis are behaving as they are. The fact is, they are, but shouldn't.

 

2. You responded to my point by making a reference to a 1993 proposal. For what its worth its a ridiculous and unfair. There was a 3 state solution: Israel, west bank and Gaza. Israel kind of messed that up by their actions.

[badgerx16]

You're not repeating yourself. This is the first time you've made any attempt to explain the possible relevance of your points .

You have conflated 2 things, but neither is 'random' nor 'dredged off Wiki', ( it is dredged off the BBC news site ) : (1) the lebensraum comment was a reflection on earlier allusions to the Holocaust, and prompted by your line "The Israelis think they can steal the homes and land of others because you need a bit more space."

 

(2) the 1993 idea, the Oslo accord for a 2-party state, is exactly what the Israelis are proposing NOW ! ( From the linked BBC report : "The Palestinian state would be based in Area A of the West Bank, where Palestinians would have control over security and civilian matters, and Area B, where Palestinians would have control over civilian issues alone." )

There you go again :

 

Point 1 : an allusion to a possible historical perspective, harking back to possible Israeli motives for their 'aggression' towards their neighbours. A point discussed by several posters on this thread.

 

Point 2: A query regarding CURRENT israeli political motives, potential aggressive acts to interfere directly in the government of a neighbour, and the viabiity of what the Israelis are CURRENTLY proposing as a 2-state solution.

 

( I get the feeling I'm beginning to repeat myself ).

I know it's pedantic but that's twice I've tried to make the same points.

 

2. You responded to my point by making a reference to a 1993 proposal. For what its worth its a ridiculous and unfair. There was a 3 state solution: Israel, west bank and Gaza. Israel kind of messed that up by their actions.

 

Again, if you read the BBC story from earlier this week it states that the 1993 proposal for a 2-state solution in the West Bank is what the Israelis are currently wanting to put back on the table in exchange for the Palestinians withdrawing their application for 'non-member' status at the UN. The image I cut and pasted was directly from the BBC news report.

[egg]

I know it's pedantic but that's twice I've tried to make the same points.

 

 

 

Again, if you read the BBC story from earlier this week it states that the 1993 proposal for a 2-state solution in the West Bank is what the Israelis are currently wanting to put back on the table in exchange for the Palestinians withdrawing their application for 'non-member' status at the UN. The image I cut and pasted was directly from the BBC news report.

 

I don't get how you can make a point twice but not make one point that relates to what I've actually said!

 

For completeness, I understand your points. The 1st really is irrelevant to what is happening. The second, I've dealt with

[manji]

The "state" of Israel was originally created by ethnic cleansing. It is an illegal entity. The rockets Hamas fire into Israel are remarkablt ineffective I think they have killed 21 Jews in the last 15 years. To put that into context 27 Palastinians have been killed by the IDF since Wednesday. The IDF I am fairly sure is the 4th biggest army in the world pitted against the citizens of Gaza. When the IRA conducted the bombing campaign over here did we bomb Belfast with RAF planes ? They are threatening Iran with attack because of thier civilian Nuclear Program when everyone knows that they have countless active Nuclear weapons. I am sick of the wests acceptance of Israels agression. Interestingly thier is a movement growing in some US Military and Political circles claiming Israel is a liability.

They are a living off the "holocaust" so no-one dares criticise them. 60 million people died in WWII including 20m Russians, 5m Germans , 4m Chinese etc etc you dont hear those countries using those stats to behave in a barborous way.

Sorry its a rambling post but I could go on for hours.It really makes me ****ing angry at what they get away with.

[manji]

This comment is contemptible.

 

Read this book and then tell me the Israelis are the victims

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553

 

written by an Israeli BTW.

[SuperMikey]

The "state" of Israel was originally created by ethnic cleansing. It is an illegal entity. The rockets Hamas fire into Israel are remarkablt ineffective I think they have killed 21 Jews in the last 15 years. To put that into context 27 Palastinians have been killed by the IDF since Wednesday. The IDF I am fairly sure is the 4th biggest army in the world pitted against the citizens of Gaza. When the IRA conducted the bombing campaign over here did we bomb Belfast with RAF planes ? They are threatening Iran with attack because of thier civilian Nuclear Program when everyone knows that they have countless active Nuclear weapons. I am sick of the wests acceptance of Israels agression. Interestingly thier is a movement growing in some US Military and Political circles claiming Israel is a liability.

They are a living off the "holocaust" so no-one dares criticise them. 60 million people died in WWII including 20m Russians, 5m Germans , 4m Chinese etc etc you dont hear those countries using those stats to behave in a barborous way.

Sorry its a rambling post but I could go on for hours.It really makes me ****ing angry at what they get away with.

 

 

The US will never seek to condemn Israel though, they're far too valuable a foothold in a region that's vital to the US. FWIW I think there are reservations that some have when going to criticise Israel because of events like the Holocaust. It's quite easy to be called anti-semitic when criticising Israel (and I have been accused of that when talking about Israel before).

 

I think the problem of Israel getting away with what they have done almost scott-free may lie in the media representation of the parties involved. Very rarely do you see the Israeli forces involved in this on the news or in print media, whereas those on the Palestinian side of things tend to receive more coverage and have a more negative portrayal. After all, what's scarier to a person in the West than an armed Muslim? Because those in Israel are viewed as more Westernised a people than most others in that region, it seems that there tends to be less criticism aimed towards them by mainstream media (which effectively shapes popular opinion in the West) and certain things are overlooked.

 

Will be interesting to see if any Western leaders have the balls to stand up and speak honestly about the situation.

[ART]

The current situation gives a lot of credit to the December 21st 2012 predictions. The whole Middle East could soon be in flames with Israel resorting to a nuclear catastrophy if Iran gets involved. You'd have thought Egypt would have learned from past bravado and going to war which they came off so badlyl

[egg]

The "state" of Israel was originally created by ethnic cleansing. It is an illegal entity. The rockets Hamas fire into Israel are remarkablt ineffective I think they have killed 21 Jews in the last 15 years. To put that into context 27 Palastinians have been killed by the IDF since Wednesday. The IDF I am fairly sure is the 4th biggest army in the world pitted against the citizens of Gaza. When the IRA conducted the bombing campaign over here did we bomb Belfast with RAF planes ? They are threatening Iran with attack because of thier civilian Nuclear Program when everyone knows that they have countless active Nuclear weapons. I am sick of the wests acceptance of Israels agression. Interestingly thier is a movement growing in some US Military and Political circles claiming Israel is a liability.

They are a living off the "holocaust" so no-one dares criticise them. 60 million people died in WWII including 20m Russians, 5m Germans , 4m Chinese etc etc you dont hear those countries using those stats to behave in a barborous way.

Sorry its a rambling post but I could go on for hours.It really makes me ****ing angry at what they get away with.

 

Superb post. Hadn't ever thought of the comparison of us / Belfast and Israel / Gaza but very fair.

 

As I said, Israel are a disgrace.

[manji]

Superb post. Hadn't ever thought of the comparison of us / Belfast and Israel / Gaza but very fair.

 

As I said, Israel are a disgrace.

The IRA even launched rockets at John Major if you remember and were about as effective as Hamas rockets.

[SuperMikey]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20374282

 

Israel devastated Hamas HQ and the surrounding area today with a series of pre-dawn drone strikes.

[doddisalegend]

The US will never seek to condemn Israel though, they're far too valuable a foothold in a region that's vital to the US. FWIW I think there are reservations that some have when going to criticise Israel because of events like the Holocaust. It's quite easy to be called anti-semitic when criticising Israel (and I have been accused of that when talking about Israel before).

 

I think the problem of Israel getting away with what they have done almost scott-free may lie in the media representation of the parties involved. Very rarely do you see the Israeli forces involved in this on the news or in print media, whereas those on the Palestinian side of things tend to receive more coverage and have a more negative portrayal. After all, what's scarier to a person in the West than an armed Muslim? Because those in Israel are viewed as more Westernised a people than most others in that region, it seems that there tends to be less criticism aimed towards them by mainstream media (which effectively shapes popular opinion in the West) and certain things are overlooked.

 

Will be interesting to see if any Western leaders have the balls to stand up and speak honestly about the situation.

 

I wonder what would happen if the US boxed clever and just gave their support to the Palestinains they'd make a lot of new friends in the region over night and practically pull the rug out from under the main reason for islamic terrorism.......of course they'd probably have to deal with jewish terrorism instead. Funny how the EU and Nato where happy to step in stop civilians being bombed in Libya but won't lift a finger in this case.

[doddisalegend]

The "state" of Israel was originally created by ethnic cleansing. It is an illegal entity. The rockets Hamas fire into Israel are remarkablt ineffective I think they have killed 21 Jews in the last 15 years. To put that into context 27 Palastinians have been killed by the IDF since Wednesday. The IDF I am fairly sure is the 4th biggest army in the world pitted against the citizens of Gaza. When the IRA conducted the bombing campaign over here did we bomb Belfast with RAF planes ? They are threatening Iran with attack because of thier civilian Nuclear Program when everyone knows that they have countless active Nuclear weapons. I am sick of the wests acceptance of Israels agression. Interestingly thier is a movement growing in some US Military and Political circles claiming Israel is a liability.

They are a living off the "holocaust" so no-one dares criticise them. 60 million people died in WWII including 20m Russians, 5m Germans , 4m Chinese etc etc you dont hear those countries using those stats to behave in a barborous way.

 

Sorry its a rambling post but I could go on for hours.It really makes me ****ing angry at what they get away with.

 

Thats not strictly true the Russians (soviets) kept eastern europe occupied for 40 years becuase of what happened in WW2

[pap]

Thats not strictly true the Russians (soviets) kept eastern europe occupied for 40 years becuase of what happened in WW2

 

Wouldn't say that exactly. Russia had its mind on bits of Eastern Europe for a long time. The non-aggression pact wasn't just a promise not to kick the crap out of each other; it also contained details of how Europe would be divided along Soviet and Nazi lines once the Germans had finished prosecuting their war. Russia had designs on an Eastern European takeover long before they were attacked in 1941.

[manji]

I wonder what would happen if the US boxed clever and just gave their support to the Palestinains they'd make a lot of new friends in the region over night and practically pull the rug out from under the main reason for islamic terrorism.......of course they'd probably have to deal with jewish terrorism instead. Funny how the EU and Nato where happy to step in stop civilians being bombed in Libya but won't lift a finger in this case.

 

The Zionist lobby practically runs the US. It would be impossible to become a Governor of either party if you had at any stage mentioned any anti-Israel comments.As I said the are some in the Military and Intelligence establishment questioning the wisdom of blindingly supporting them. If you think about it is highly unlikely 9-11 would have happened for starters.

[manji]

Thats not strictly true the Russians (soviets) kept eastern europe occupied for 40 years becuase of what happened in WW2

I am more talking about the present anyway. You didnt hear Putin claiming the reason for his 5 day invasion of Georgia was to prevent a repeat of the Russian "holocaust".And also he was subject to worldwide condemnation. Whereas today Israel is defending itself from the evil Hamas lobbing the odd glorified firework at them.All you hear is world leaders parroting "Israel has the right to defend itself".

Edited 17 November, 2012 by manji

[Saint in Paradise]

I am sick, sorry and tired of Israel constantly harping on about and playing the holocaust card. It was over 67 years ago that WW2

ended but I heard on Friday NZ time that Germany is to pay even more money to Israel because of the holocaust. I meet people from

most countries who have visitors to NZ and those from Israel are the very worst.

[Halo Stickman]

As they are such good mates, I’ve often thought it would have been better for the new state of Israel to have been constructed somewhere in the USA. Okay, so there’s no historical links and all that sort of thing but it sure would have caused a lot less trouble…..maybe!

[Wurzel]

The current situation gives a lot of credit to the December 21st 2012 predictions. The whole Middle East could soon be in flames with Israel resorting to a nuclear catastrophy if Iran gets involved. You'd have thought Egypt would have learned from past bravado and going to war which they came off so badlyl

 

I was thinking along the same lines. Take all those predictions with a pinch of salt, usually nutjobs talking ********, then with 35 days to go this blows up (pardon the pun) almost out of nowhere. ! Think I'll just bother with the minimum payment on the credit card bill this month

[Thedelldays]

Expect massive escalation in tensions if Iran builds the bomb

[Smirking_Saint]

I am more talking about the present anyway. You didnt hear Putin claiming the reason for his 5 day invasion of Georgia was to prevent a repeat of the Russian "holocaust".And also he was subject to worldwide condemnation. Whereas today Israel is defending itself from the evil Hamas lobbing the odd glorified firework at them.All you hear is world leaders parroting "Israel has the right to defend itself".

 

I imagine its a difficult situation though, not a decision I would want to make. If they side with Israel then the muslim nations harbour more hatred to the hypocrisy of the USA.

 

On the flip side if they pull that protective blanket away then I imagine all of the middle east would fancy having a go at them. That IMHO would be the worst situation as, like you say, they do over react somewhat to any situation can you even imagine what woukd happen should the muslim nations invade ? They are a nuclear armed nation after all.

 

Some of me believes that their overreaction is more of a warning to any hostile nation around them. Its difficult, and not right, but there is more in it then just picking a side.

[ART]

Expect massive escalation in tensions if Iran builds the bomb

I seriously think this escalation and Gaza conflict is the preparation by the US and Israel for an attack on Iran's nuclear plant. Why else would Israel impose such a heightened state of alert and mass call up. It also provides media distraction for Britain and France's armament of Syria's opposition. The powder keg have been lit and we are about to see the Middle East explode on numerous fronts.

[OldNick]

What does that have to do with grabbing land in another state? My point was land grab, occupation and human rights breaches in 2012 You responded by referring to a nazi practice from the 1920's. Random.

surely the lebanstraum. Point was a good one. The Israelis are doing the same as Nazi Germany did,as in taking other people's land,and fighting to keep it. Their settlements are creeping further out . Until the US is even handed the problem will stay with us forever

[OldNick]

Expect massive escalation in tensions if Iran builds the bomb

I would not be surprised if they have it already. The danger is that we will find out when it has been used. Could the US use one against IRan???? The georgraphy makes it very dangerous to do so

[Miltonroader07]

In Tel Aviv there is a bridge and on the bridge it says, Mr Clinton WE will give Israel to the Arabs when you give the USA to the Indians.

[Crab Lungs]

Israel can suck me clean off. Abiut 3:10 is the worst of this video IMO.

 

[andysstuff]

Streaming Services

[Crab Lungs]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvcH8x1H_Ig&feature=related

[The Majestic Channon]

Enterprise Communications

Eerie watching that

[Crab Lungs]

Eerie watching that

 

Yup... agreed. :-/

[andysstuff]

Eerie watching that

 

Looks like some bloke sat on his roof - Sort of makes it all real -more so than the video out of Baghdad all those years ago

[Polaroid Saint]

Trying desperately hard not to make a 'Gazza standing alone quip' after the goal conceded today.

 

Putting oorly constructed poor taste puns aside, I should point out that no it all Jews are murdering, fascist state supporting scumbags, in much the same way that not all Muslims are suicide bombers.

 

This current 'escalation' had been penciled in for at least a year and is utterly designed to warn neighbouring states that Israel means business with regard to flexing its military muscle. (I was reading about the Pentagon discussing the dates with the IDF in British national newspapers, no secrecy and I am sure that information is still online somewhere).

Bizarrely it was envisaged as a calculated attempt to stop a larger conflict. All part of Israel's continued building up varied 'weaponry' to subjugate its neighbours (incl nuclear arsenal, covert operations, and advanced electronic warfare etc).

 

Clearly that was a stupid idea and is not going to work.

 

Israel is a paranoid, fascist state that relies on a perceived and perpetuated idea that they are somehow still being 'suppressed' by a (admittedly genuine and very real) historical wrong (the Holocaust).

 

Perversely, very similar to the 'Gleichschaltung' that the Nazis used to coordinate the Third Reich, referencing the War Guilt Clause of the Treaty of Versailles etc, and bring about the second world war.

 

How's that song go? Where have all the flowers gone? ; 'When will we ever learn? When will we ever learn?'

 

And the other one; 'War, what is it good for? Absolutely Nothing.'

[Polaroid Saint]

Trying desperately hard not to make a 'Gazza standing alone' quip after the goal conceded today.

 

Putting poorly constructed poor taste puns aside, I should point out that not all Jews are murdering, fascist state supporting scumbags, in much the same way that not all Muslims are suicide bombers.

 

This current 'escalation' had been penciled in for at least a year and is utterly designed to warn neighbouring states that Israel means business with regard to flexing its military muscle. (I was reading about the Pentagon discussing the dates with the IDF in British national newspapers, no secrecy and I am sure that information is still online somewhere).

Bizarrely it was envisaged as a calculated attempt to stop a larger conflict. All part of Israel's continued building up varied 'weaponry' to subjugate its neighbours (incl nuclear arsenal, covert operations, and advanced electronic warfare etc).

 

Clearly that was a stupid idea and is not going to work.

 

Israel is a paranoid, fascist state that relies on a perceived and perpetuated idea that they are somehow still being 'suppressed' by a (admittedly genuine and very real) historical wrong (the Holocaust).

 

Perversely, very similar to the 'Gleichschaltung' that the Nazis used to coordinate the Third Reich, referencing the War Guilt Clause of the Treaty of Versailles etc, and bring about the second world war.

 

How's that song go? Where have all the flowers gone? ; 'When will we ever learn? When will we ever learn?'

 

And the other one; 'War, what is it good for? Absolutely Nothing.'

 

 

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[*Halo*]

I tend to stay out of commenting on this very personal (to me) topic for the most part, these days. Time, and history has taught me, that the 'fall out' from discussions on this subject matter, is not worth the hostility and vitriol that can on occasions come to the fore, born out of the passionate feelings it can stir within us.

 

Yet, I have been pleasantly surprised at the level of maturity that it has been handled with here, on the most part.

 

Just for the record, I have close friends on all sides of this abysmal conflict.

 

 

The trouble is, that in the western corporate media, we are not being given a fair and balanced perspective, of what is truly happening in the middle east (and the wider world, for that matter).

 

And borne of that stubborn, wilful, gluttonous neglect, of those media outlets responsible for bringing us 'unslanted', 'unbiased' coverage of current events, under the guise of "news"; all too many, who rely upon such compromised institutions to inform us of "truth", are necessarily living in ignorance, under the hypnotic trance - of state sponsored, subtle mass media manipulation.

 

Yet in truth, if we abdicate responsibility for our own education and learning, if we expend such little effort in our quest for knowledge, as to abandon our innate inquisitive, investigative inclinations, and place our dumbed down complacent trust in the plasma screens, then we have only ourselves to blame.

 

According to the most popularly quoted "timelines", those nasty Palestinian "terrorists" kicked off the latest wave of violence by firing increased rocket activity into Israel on the 12th of November, in a "sudden escalation" of "terrorist attacks".

 

Completely unprovoked, of course.

 

They just felt like stirring up the festering 'Zionist' hornets nest again, and inviting a nice fresh blast of indiscriminate Israeli "retaliation" to warm up the cold winter months. For no reason. Of course, afterall - that's what "terrorists" do, isn't it?

 

So, if we are to believe that we are being presented with true, unbiased media "news" coverage of these latest rounds of atrocities, then...

 

Why doesn't the corporate media tell us that on November 3rd, a mentally impaired Palestinian man, Ahmad al-Nabaheen, who had the misfortune to stray "too close" to the border fence on the Gaza side, was shot dead by IDF gunmen?

 

Why doesn't the corporate media tell us that on November 5th, during a "truce-breaking" Israeli incursion of tanks and bulldozers into Gaza, that a thirteen year old boy, Ahmad Abu Daqqa, was gunned down in a field outside his house whilst he played football with his friends?

 

If it truly seeks to offer an in any way balanced assessment of what possible motives could the Palestinian people have had for the sudden "escalation" of rocket fire into Israel from Gaza, why doesn't the corporate media have the fairness and decency to report that at the funeral for 13 year old Ahmad Abu Daqqa and another 15 year old Gazan boy also killed during the unprovoked and sickening Israeli attack on defenceless children playing football, that Israel decided to turn up to pay its "respects", with tanks and guns, opening fire on the funeral service, leaving thirty Palestinians seriously wounded, including many women and children, with two recorded fatalities?

 

Why does the corporate media not tell us about these crucial events that led to the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (not Hamas' al-Qassam Brigades) responding by firing at an Israeli tank on the border (believed to be responsible for the funeral massacre), and sending further rockets of retaliation into southern Israel?

 

Why instead do we hear the all too familiar rhetoric that "Israel has the right to defend herself from terrorist attacks" trotted out across our television screens?

 

"Terrorist attacks"?!? - Well, I guess that's one 'way' of describing the outraged response of the Palestinian people to this despicable atrocity inflicted upon them, in the long line of brutal occupying oppression they are subjected to on a daily basis, by the "terrorist" state of Israel.

 

Do the people of Palestine not also have the "right to defend themselves" from the terrorist attacks from Israel that began this latest round of unholy bloodshed?

 

Why does Israel continue to blame Hamas for these strikes, when the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine have already claimed responsibility for them, and instead blame Hamas for "failing to prevent them"?

 

Why does the corporate media not tell us that at the time of his disgraceful extra-judicial murder, Ahmed al-Jaabari had been carrying on his person, a final draught ready to be signed and ratified by Hamas leadership, of a key document which would have committed Hamas to the promise of "a lasting and permanent truce" with Israel, and that top Israeli officials were well aware of this fact when they decided to take him out?

 

Why?

 

Because despite what the corporate propaganda machinery of the mainstream media will tell you, the murderous genocidal leadership in Israel don't want peace. They, as they always have, still harbour intense desires for "Eretz Y'israel" (Greater Israel). Namely expansion of the terrorist state of Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates, just as depicted in the very flag of Israel itself. Peace won't get that for them. So they go about achieving their goals instead, via the vehicles of death, and destruction.

 

The Israeli people (the vast majority of them) are normal, everyday, caring human beings, just like most of the Palestinians are too. They do not want this war. They do not want this endless cycle of violence. A great many Palestinians, Israelis, Lebanese, Syrians, Iranians, see each other as brothers and sisters in this one human race, in the great melting pot region of the Middle East, that they must share together. Most genuinely wish each other no harm. But until such a time as we can somehow find a way to rid ourselves of the warmongers and their genocidal expansionist agendas, we seem powerless to effect change. We've long passed living in an age where our "governments" actually listen to "their" people, and take into account of our wishes. If in fact we ever lived in such a time.

 

 

(Will have to post this in two parts, as it's "too long")

[*Halo*]

And of course, we also have the Israeli elections coming up on January 22nd, and dear old [/irony] Mr. Netanyahu clearly is feeling the need to tip the balance in his favour, of an election he will otherwise likely not win, by fomenting and unleashing more barbaric war. It is time to play the "security" card again, that other western powers have used so successfully to dupe their electorate into support, via the help of their key ally, the good old reliable propaganda peddling monstrosity of the utterly gutless and complicit mainstream cwhoreporate media.

 

Modern Politics is merely a puppet show for grown ups.

 

And until we rid ourselves of the same group of puppeteers who have their hands firmly snuggled up inside all of the puppets on the "World stage", - we will never be free from the hypnotic charade.

 

"Western Democracy" indeed. I doubt there exists a more oxymoronic label, for the brand of "freedom" that we inflict upon our conquest States, with our toxic financial "Aid" packages. If 'spreading' the virus of our so called "democracy" throughout the "Non Integrating Gap" is us "helping" nations, I would truly shudder to think how we might go about hindering them.

 

And let us not forget November 29th's potential election of "Palestine" to non-full member observer status at the UN Council. Israeli leaders have been more than specific that they see this as unacceptable, and threatened "untold repercussions" if they go ahead with their plan, which in the absence of the usual US veto power (outside of the Security Council, in the General Assembly) should likely be sealed by around 130 votes in favour, to around 50 against.

 

This International recognition of 'Statehood' will afford the Palestinian Leadership, with the right/power to bring Israel before the International Courts of Justice, for war crimes, and crimes against humanity.

Israel's sudden ramping up of the violence, whether or not the chief motivator, could be seen as a 'reminder' of their 'seriousness'.

 

 

Just for a little light reading on the subject of the shambolic media bias we 'enjoy' here, take a look at these articles, from Media Lens: http://medialens.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=706:gaza-blitz-turmoil-and-tragicomedy-at-the-bbc&catid=25:alerts-2012&Itemid=69 (read the whole article, and some of the subsequent links are also of interest);

 

and this from News Unspun: http://newsunspun.org/article/siding-with-the-powerful-uk-media-coverage-of-the-assault-on-gaza

 

I'd also recommend following Harry Fear, a British documentary maker who has been in Gaza since the start of November, and is broadcasting regularly, his eyewitness perspectives from 'on the ground' in Gaza City.

 

https://twitter.com/harryfear

gazareport.com

 

 

 

It is so easy, with the throwaway, monotone delivery of the dispassionate propaganda we are subject to via the main corporate news networks surrounding the tragedy of the truly heartbreaking situation that we allow to carry on in our name in the middle east, by our complicit silence to such widespread human suffering; that it seems almost 'commonplace' to accept the so called "balanced news coverage" of further 'escalation' of the conflict with a 'Gallic shrug'.

 

We have, as a people, become so collectively desensitized, so hopelessly caught up in our own 'high-tech', self absorbed existences, that we all too easily forget, about the 'far off', 'distant' suffering of others. And how but for chance of birthright, it could so very easily have been us.

 

And that for me, is the saddest thing of all. Every day, our brothers and sisters (fellow human beings) out in Gaza, and the wider Palestinian regions, are suffering under a brutal occupation, where Israel enforces upon them, a crippling blockade, which controls and (under) rations out every aspect of their lives.

 

1.7 Million people, crammed into an area smaller than the Isle of White, imprisoned from every side, with no army, no navy, no air force to protect them, as one of the most potent military powers in the world, continues in flagrant violation of more than Sixty Five UN Resolutions against it (Iraq was invaded after breaching just two), to run roughshod over their most basic human rights - in carefree abandon; 'ethnically cleansing' - safe under the impunity of United States veto power. Smugly flicking arrogant v's at all established International Law. And Yesterday, 'Binyamin' Netanyahu has the unspeakably audacious hypocrisy, to accuse Hamas, of "war crimes".

 

Of those suffering 1.7 million Palestinians, almost one million live in ghetto-like refugee camps, in the wake of the endless years of Israeli aggression that has destroyed their homes, with armoured bulldozers, artillery and airpower, provided for (ultimately), by our own governments' military aid.

 

And for their resistance of this absolute domination, this utter humiliation, and violation of their human rights; our esteemed leaders brand these longsuffering brothers and sisters of our human family, as "terrorists".

 

What would we do, were we walking in their shoes?

 

(Other than leave footprints in the traces of white phosphorus, I mean.)

 

 

As Chris Hedges (Author and Former NY Times journalist) so eloquently summed up his outstanding speech to Ethical Culture Society, on January 13th 2009 - (

)

 

"The lesson of the holocaust, is not that jews are special, or that jews are "unique" (in their suffering), it is not that jews are eternal victims. The lesson of the holocaust, is that when you have the capacity to halt genocide, and you do not, - no matter who carries out that genocide, or who it is directed against - you are culpable."

 

 

And yet, in spite of all this, the Gazans are such a warm, and hospitable people. And the courage they show, in their determination to just somehow keep going about living out their daily lives, in as 'normal' a way as possible - in the face of such continued devastating onslaught, is a remarkable tribute, to the steadfastness, and resilience of a truly amazing people.

 

For many Palestinians, the vast overwhelming majority of whom have never engaged in 'military' resistance themselves - they will tell you that for them, the very act of continuing to live, is their own personal form of "resistance" itself

[egg]

Wow Halo, very comprehensive. I have to say that I was completely unaware of the events in the week or so before this kicked off. Sadly it comes as no surprise and of course goes on in the west bank too.

[Polaroid Saint]

Great post Halo, thank you; despite its seeming girth it is actually an incredibly succinct appraisal of the situation and one that I would recommend anyone re-read a couple of times.

 

Let's hope the attitude, and, ahem, distaste (for wont of a better word) shown upon this thread (on a footy forum ffs) is echoed enough throughout society that our government does hear the voice of the people.

 

Doubtful I know, but it does seem the general public are much less inclined to believe the propaganda trotted out than they used to be.

[capitalsaint]

http://electronicintifada.net/content/israel-assaults-gaza-bbc-reporting-assaults-truth/11894

[Sheaf Saint]

Thank you *Halo* for such an excellent summary of the situation.

 

You do have to wonder why our media channels always choose to show interviews with Israeli officials talking about the terrorist threat from Gaza and their right to defend themselves, yet we never get to hear the Palestinian side of it. I mean, it couldn't possibly be due to the heavy Jewish influence in global, and particularly American media corporations, could it?

[alpine_saint]

I mean, it couldn't possibly be due to the heavy Jewish influence in global, and particularly American media corporations, could it?

 

Wow, thought I was in Berlin in 1936 for a moment....

[pap]

Thank you *Halo* for such an excellent summary of the situation.

 

You do have to wonder why our media channels always choose to show interviews with Israeli officials talking about the terrorist threat from Gaza and their right to defend themselves, yet we never get to hear the Palestinian side of it. I mean, it couldn't possibly be due to the heavy Jewish influence in global, and particularly American media corporations, could it?

 

Exactly my thoughts.

 

I visited a site about a decade ago which was aimed at promoting awareness of Jewish involvement in the media. Percentage wise, people who self-identify as Jewish comprise about 1% or less of the US population on 2008's figures. This blog post, written by an adherent of the Jewish faith, goes some way to illustrate that there are a lot of Jewish people running the media.

 

http://mondoweiss.net/2008/02/do-jews-dominat.html

 

As I said in an earlier post, I'm no holocaust denier ( can anyone sense a BUT coming? ) BUT I find it highly suspect that in some places, it is actually illegal to posit an alternate view. Illegal. Not dragged out into the cold light of debate, not allowed to be double-checked, questioned or queried in any way. This, in countries that apparently believe freedom of speech is a good thing.