Have we got a money problem?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Just a few things pointing towards a money problem, or at least a cash flow issue:

 

- Not paying Contractors for work on the Stadium

- The stopping of work on the training ground

- The loan from the Cayman Islands

- Not investing in proper CB's in the Summer

- Rumours of no money to spend in January

 

I am becoming increasingly worried that not staying up this season could land us in some serious financial issues...again!

[Saint Charlie]

Could be - however to counteract that we did spend record amounts on players this summer and have just joined the Prem gravy train of Sky money.

[This Charming Man]

Just a few things pointing towards a money problem, or at least a cash flow issue:

 

- Not paying Contractors for work on the Stadium

- The stopping of work on the training ground

- The loan from the Cayman Islands

- Not investing in proper CB's in the Summer

- Rumours of no money to spend in January

 

I am becoming increasingly worried that not staying up this season could land us in some serious financial issues...again!

 

No we haven't. Now bury your head in the sand and get behind the team, ffs.

[alpine_saint]

Yes, I am beginning to think this too.

 

Getting Ramirez looks more stupid by the day.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Could be - however to counteract that we did spend record amounts on players this summer and have just joined the Prem gravy train of Sky money.

 

Yeah, but that money could potentially have been spent without even the thought of being relegated, spending without having the money.

[Trader]

Just a few things pointing towards a money problem, or at least a cash flow issue:

 

- Not paying Contractors for work on the Stadium

- The stopping of work on the training ground

- The loan from the Cayman Islands

- Not investing in proper CB's in the Summer

- Rumours of no money to spend in January

 

I am becoming increasingly worried that not staying up this season could land us in some serious financial issues...again!

 

If we don't stay up we can look forward to those lovely generous parachute payments - they've been keeping that lot down the road alive for years.

[Andover_Saint07]

Just a few things pointing towards a money problem, or at least a cash flow issue:

 

- Not paying Contractors for work on the Stadium

- The stopping of work on the training ground

- The loan from the Cayman Islands

- Not investing in proper CB's in the Summer

- Rumours of no money to spend in January

 

I am becoming increasingly worried that not staying up this season could land us in some serious financial issues...again!

 

 

Not sure about the rest but the contractors wasnt paid as cortese said they failed to hit time scale! But they claimed that was because cortese kept changing his mind..

[Saint Without a Halo]

Yes, I am beginning to think this too.

 

Getting Ramirez looks more stupid by the day.

 

Particulalry as he now looks the most likely player to keep us and also given that he is our most valuable asset in terms of potential sell on! yes looks pretty stupid!

Edited 16 November, 2012 by Saint Without a Halo

[Judge_B]

Is St Mary's still our stadium?

 

- we're not using it this weekend, and apparently we're not using it next Saturday either

- friend of mine tells me there is not one single fan in the stadium right now

- rumours that they're going to pull the stadium down and replace it with a bouncy castle

 

I really think we're doomed this time

[captainchris]

Perhaps more a culture of not paying bills. I knew about this none payment for the refurb of the prawn sandwich area a good while back and have heard it's a very similar situation with Staplewood. We don't pay up and try to say it's because of a dispute which was actually manufactured......I think it's sad and dislike companies who put back paying by engineering disputes. We are now getting a uneviable reputation for this in the building trade and probably eleswhere too. In the case of the Lee on Solent company, they are small and the cash flow issues caused were very hard for them to navigate through - what a shame that our club was dragged through the courts for this and that a good local firm has had to suffer....

[Saint Charlie]

Yeah, but that money could potentially have been spent without even the thought of being relegated, spending without having the money.

 

If that was the case it would be hugely crass. Unforgiveable.

[Gemmel]

I think it is probably more a case of cash flow rather than having no money.

 

 

We don't get the Premiership money until June, yet have had to fund a Premier team in the mean time.

[Trader]

Perhaps more a culture of not paying bills. I knew about this none payment for the refurb of the prawn sandwich area a good while back and have heard it's a very similar situation with Staplewood. We don't pay up and try to say it's because of a dispute which was actually manufactured......I think it's sad and dislike companies who put back paying by engineering disputes. We are now getting a uneviable reputation for this in the building trade and probably eleswhere too. In the case of the Lee on Solent company, they are small and the cash flow issues caused were very hard for them to navigate through - what a shame that our club was dragged through the courts for this and that a good local firm has had to suffer....

 

Totally this.

 

Having been a small business owner myself I know that there are certain individuals and companies out there who just don't like to part with money and will avoid paying at all if they possibly can - certainly avoid paying for as long as possible.

 

Allegedly Mr. Cortese has a growing reputation in this regard - but sadly even if true because of the economic situation he will have no trouble in finding contractors willing to take a chance.

 

I don't like it though - he is dragging the good name of SFC and the Liebherrs through the mud.

[Saint Without a Halo]

I think it is probably more a case of cash flow rather than having no money.

 

 

We don't get the Premiership money until June, yet have had to fund a Premier team in the mean time.

 

This

[The Kraken]

I think it is probably more a case of cash flow rather than having no money.

 

We don't get the Premiership money until June, yet have had to fund a Premier team in the mean time.

That's certainly how I see the loan.

 

As for our actual financial position; its of course buried in mystery, the "latest" acounts are out of date by 18 months. My position on our financial position right now is "concerned"; if we get relegated its "extremely worried".

[Dig Dig]

That's certainly how I see the loan.

 

As for our actual financial position; its of course buried in mystery, the "latest" acounts are out of date by 18 months. My position on our financial position right now is "concerned"; if we get relegated its "extremely worried".

 

I'm still not sure that I've seen or heard enough to be worried about our financial position. There has been significant investment in the squad, unprecedented for us. I know the OP used the lack of a CB signing as an example but we could have got a CB if we chose to within the 30M we have spent.

 

Added to significant investment in most area's of the club, I don't think there is an issue.

 

I'll wait for the Sky Sports breaking news that we haven't paid the players wages before I start to worry!

[Bucks Saint]

Just a few things pointing towards a money problem, or at least a cash flow issue:

 

- Not paying Contractors for work on the Stadium

- The stopping of work on the training ground

- The loan from the Cayman Islands

- Not investing in proper CB's in the Summer

- Rumours of no money to spend in January

 

I am becoming increasingly worried that not staying up this season could land us in some serious financial issues...again!

 

You told me you are sure Adkins is already working his notice and will be out any day, just as soon as we complete our (strangely slow) search for a replacement. This means hefty compensation for NA and his team, plus a new deal for the replacements. So, although this imminent event has not happened yet, based on what you said, I doubt we have any money problems

[Special K]

I think it is probably more a case of cash flow rather than having no money.

 

 

We don't get the Premiership money until June, yet have had to fund a Premier team in the mean time.

 

Maybe, but then again the club shouldn't be entering into contracts they know they cannot fund. Entering into contracts and knowing you cannot meet your liabilites is generally called insolvent trading, although obvioulsy there was cash coming in, a way down the line. With particular reference to the Echo article on the refit of the Channon suite, they should have played fair and negotiated a payment plan if they couldn't afford the agreed payment schedule. But they didn't, could not defend their actions and have strung it out far too long before losing face by not even entering a defence when it reached Court. I seriously hope they cough up now. If it were my Company that was owed, then with a judgment in hand i'd give them 7 days to pay and then go straight to launching a winding up petition.

 

On the wider picture, I have a theory, and it is only my view I hasten to add, that in the summer, when the Liebherr Estate effectively wrote off the debt the Club had generated since takeover, it said to Cortese that the goal had been achieved (PL status) and whilst this was in the original plan, going forward, they would not fund anything else and that SFC has to stand on it's own two feet without any guaranteed backing from the estate. Not a bad position to be in i guess; a new PL club with no debt, but the main problem with that is there was no ready cash either (hence the inability to complete payments for work done and drawn out transfer arrangements for players over the summer). For me it would seem to fit the events that have transpired since promotion and whilst i don't suspect there is a large problem yet (although the next set of accounts will be interesting), I think we are far from being draped in the riches some fans believe, as i don't think there is any real forward funding from the Estate.

 

On a slightly different note i was lucky enough to be invited in the Channon suite for the Swansea game and was quite disappointed with the whole "experience". Hardly any seats or tables, it looked like an unfinished airport departure lounge. The food on offer was crap (choice of 4 wraps that you had to pay for) and the booze was pricey. This is the first time i had been there for about 5 years, when it was a much better affair with proper tables, decent buffet and some free booze. Now it is hardly what i would call a "Premier League Experience" and will look forward to getting back into the Kingsland!

[alpine_saint]

Particulalry as he now looks the most likely player to keep us and also given that he is our most valuable asset in terms of potential sell on! yes looks pretty stupid!

 

You can pin your hopes all on one player, personally I would have preferrred us to go for a balanced squad over the summer. One careless kick and its over, and you can be guaranteed our opposition know that too. Besides, I aint convinced he is our knight in shining armour.

[St Marco]

While I think it is hard to say if we have a money problem I do think the way we get our money has now changed. I don't think Markus' family put the money into the club anymore or maybe not as much as they did. While this doesn't mean we are poor it does mean we are not as rich as we thought we were.

 

But what I do think needs to happen is Cortese needs to come out and make a statement on what's happening in the club with the finances. If we are on our own then so be it. I think it's important to know what the people who own the club are thinking rather then continue in the complete silence we have had pretty much since Markus died.

[Greenridge]

You can pin your hopes all on one player, personally I would have preferrred us to go for a balanced squad over the summer. One careless kick and its over, and you can be guaranteed our opposition know that too. Besides, I aint convinced he is our knight in shining armour.

 

I think the first part is a completely fair comment.

 

As an aside, I would be more than surprised if we don't make a significant profit from his sale when he does eventually move on but that wouldn't negate the financial impact of relegation if that indeed ends up being the case. We've got a long way to go this season so let's not throw the towel in just yet.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

You told me you are sure Adkins is already working his notice and will be out any day, just as soon as we complete our (strangely slow) search for a replacement. This means hefty compensation for NA and his team, plus a new deal for the replacements. So, although this imminent event has not happened yet, based on what you said, I doubt we have any money problems

 

Go look at the thread again, I never said I was sure. However I do think that is possibly the case and explains his continued prescence at the club.

 

But thinking about it, perhaps the reason we haven't sacked Adkins is because we can't afford to...it's something that I never really considered until now.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Maybe, but then again the club shouldn't be entering into contracts they know they cannot fund. Entering into contracts and knowing you cannot meet your liabilites is generally called insolvent trading, although obvioulsy there was cash coming in, a way down the line. With particular reference to the Echo article on the refit of the Channon suite, they should have played fair and negotiated a payment plan if they couldn't afford the agreed payment schedule. But they didn't, could not defend their actions and have strung it out far too long before losing face by not even entering a defence when it reached Court. I seriously hope they cough up now. If it were my Company that was owed, then with a judgment in hand i'd give them 7 days to pay and then go straight to launching a winding up petition.

 

On the wider picture, I have a theory, and it is only my view I hasten to add, that in the summer, when the Liebherr Estate effectively wrote off the debt the Club had generated since takeover, it said to Cortese that the goal had been achieved (PL status) and whilst this was in the original plan, going forward, they would not fund anything else and that SFC has to stand on it's own two feet without any guaranteed backing from the estate. Not a bad position to be in i guess; a new PL club with no debt, but the main problem with that is there was no ready cash either (hence the inability to complete payments for work done and drawn out transfer arrangements for players over the summer). For me it would seem to fit the events that have transpired since promotion and whilst i don't suspect there is a large problem yet (although the next set of accounts will be interesting), I think we are far from being draped in the riches some fans believe, as i don't think there is any real forward funding from the Estate.

 

On a slightly different note i was lucky enough to be invited in the Channon suite for the Swansea game and was quite disappointed with the whole "experience". Hardly any seats or tables, it looked like an unfinished airport departure lounge. The food on offer was crap (choice of 4 wraps that you had to pay for) and the booze was pricey. This is the first time i had been there for about 5 years, when it was a much better affair with proper tables, decent buffet and some free booze. Now it is hardly what i would call a "Premier League Experience" and will look forward to getting back into the Kingsland!

 

That sounds completely plausible to me. I think it's quite obvious that we are no longer being funded by the Liebherr's.

[alpine_saint]

I think the first part is a completely fair comment.

 

As an aside, I would be more than surprised if we don't make a significant profit from his sale when he does eventually move on but that wouldn't negate the financial impact of relegation if that indeed ends up being the case. We've got a long way to go this season so let's not throw the towel in just yet.

 

We wont make as much profit as you think if we are selling him from the Championship.

 

What a truly lunatic business plan we have this season.....

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

You can pin your hopes all on one player, personally I would have preferrred us to go for a balanced squad over the summer. One careless kick and its over, and you can be guaranteed our opposition know that too. Besides, I aint convinced he is our knight in shining armour.

 

I think he is much better than you realise in all honesty Alps. I'm not criticising you, but he really is a pretty special footballer, especially at the age of 21. No other team outside the top 6 has a player comparable imo, and when he gets fully fit and up to speed with the Premiership you will see the guys class.

[saintchris23]

No agenda here.....BUT;

 

If they applied for an account with me, I'd refuse them based on their Net Worth, which according to their last accounts was £-24,285,842 which has DOUBLED since 2010 with it's assets depreciating and rapidly (to be expected unless new investment is made).

 

It's not looking very good, however their accounts should've been filed by 31/7/12 so should be readily available shortly......unless anyone's brave enough to request the management accounts from Mr Cortese of course (again, a totally reasonable request for a Limited company). The funny thing is that Companies House has the sole Director listed as 'Ms Nicola Cortese'.....I don't think he's changed his sex!

 

His other companies have the following Net Worth;

 

ST MARYS SPV LIMITED £-18,443,950

ST MARYS STADIUM LIMITED £-21,962,905

ST MARYS CATERING LIMITED £467,500

DMWSL 611 LIMITED Net Worth: £0 - Buying and selling of own real estate

DMWSL 612 LIMITED £997,600 - Buying and selling of own real estate

DMWSL 613 LIMITED £-24,285,842 - Activities of head offices

DMWSL 610 LIMITED £0 - Buying and selling of own real estate

 

Looking at all of the business' that 'Ms Nicola Cortese' is a Director of, doesn't make great reading.

[Greenridge]

I think he is much better than you realise in all honesty Alps. I'm not criticising you, but he really is a pretty special footballer, especially at the age of 21. No other team outside the top 6 has a player comparable imo, and when he gets fully fit and up to speed with the Premiership you will see the guys class.

 

Agreed

[Big Bad Bob]

 

ST MARYS SPV LIMITED £-18,443,950

ST MARYS STADIUM LIMITED £-21,962,905

ST MARYS CATERING LIMITED £467,500

DMWSL 611 LIMITED Net Worth: £0 - Buying and selling of own real estate

DMWSL 612 LIMITED £997,600 - Buying and selling of own real estate

DMWSL 613 LIMITED £-24,285,842 - Activities of head offices

DMWSL 610 LIMITED £0 - Buying and selling of own real estate

 

See, Rupes was right, world class catering.....

[JustMike]

Just a few things pointing towards a money problem, or at least a cash flow issue:

 

- Not paying Contractors for work on the Stadium

- The stopping of work on the training ground

- The loan from the Cayman Islands

- Not investing in proper CB's in the Summer

- Rumours of no money to spend in January

 

I am becoming increasingly worried that not staying up this season could land us in some serious financial issues...again!

 

£12m on Ramirez?

[Jimmy_D]

My gut feeling is that this is due to Saints having a ruthless business strategy these days.

 

Bills don't get paid until the latest possible time (to allow interest to accrue, etc.), the cheapest possible suppliers are picked (e.g. the programme printers being based in Portsmouth now), any unnecessary staff are let go (the programme sellers), any hangers on are given nothing for free (MLT and other former players). Every last penny is chased.

 

I don't like it, I think goodwill is an important (but intangible) asset for a business to have, but I think it's more a case of being unwilling to pay until as late as possible, rather than being unable to pay.

 

This is a relatively small amount of money, and if there were problems on that front, other signs would be there, such as late payment of wages.

[The Kraken]

I'm still not sure that I've seen or heard enough to be worried about our financial position. There has been significant investment in the squad, unprecedented for us. I know the OP used the lack of a CB signing as an example but we could have got a CB if we chose to within the 30M we have spent.

 

Added to significant investment in most area's of the club, I don't think there is an issue.

 

I'll wait for the Sky Sports breaking news that we haven't paid the players wages before I start to worry!

 

I posted this a week or two back but it bears repeating (and has been referenced in this thread).

 

Southampton Football Club Ltd's last accounts showing a net worth of minus £28M.

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/00053301

 

St. Mary's SPV Ltd's last accounts showing a new worth of minus £18M.

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/03998175

 

St. Mary's Stadium Ltd's last accounts showing a net worth of minus £22M.

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/03798424

 

DMWSL613 Ltd. (the holding company) last accounts showing a net worth of minus £24M.

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/06951765

 

 

That's more than enough for me to sit up and and ask questions and adopt a "worried" state about our financial position.

Edited 16 November, 2012 by The Kraken

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I posted this a week or two back but it bears repeating (and has been referenced in this thread).

 

Southampton Football Club Ltd's last accounts showing a net worth of minus £28M.

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/00053301

 

St. Mary's SPV Ltd's last accounts showing a new worth of minus £18M.

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/03998175

 

St. Mary's Stadium Ltd's last accounts showing a net worth of minus £22M.

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/03798424

 

DMWSL613 Ltd. (the holding company) last accounts showing a net worth of minus £24M.

http://companycheck.co.uk/company/06951765

 

 

That's more than enough for me to sit up and and ask questions and adopt a "worried" state about our financial position.

 

I thought prior to this season we had no debt. Have we re-mortgaged the stadium to release funds then? How easy is it for these companies accounts to cross, or can they not? My corporate finance knowledge is meagre...

[The Kraken]

My gut feeling is that this is due to Saints having a ruthless business strategy these days.

 

Bills don't get paid until the latest possible time (to allow interest to accrue, etc.), the cheapest possible suppliers are picked (e.g. the programme printers being based in Portsmouth now), any unnecessary staff are let go (the programme sellers), any hangers on are given nothing for free (MLT and other former players). Every last penny is chased.

 

I don't like it, I think goodwill is an important (but intangible) asset for a business to have, but I think it's more a case of being unwilling to pay until as late as possible, rather than being unable to pay.

 

This is a relatively small amount of money, and if there were problems on that front, other signs would be there, such as late payment of wages.

 

The problem is that in many cases its not ruthless its just downright stupid.

 

The programme sellers won't be a money-saving exercise; that's just daft to think that. Using agency staff, providing uniforms etc etc will mean that there won't be a likely cost saving. Its just a rebranding exercise and should be just recognised as that.

 

I'm concerned about our financial position, though there's no hard evidence to back that tup. I'm also concerned about the way that local media and many local businesses have been cut off to the extent that they are disinclined to use the (expensive and high margin) corporate areas, and how the whole dumbing down of that experience now means we can't get close to a total sell out of the ground even against the top sides in the country as its such a poor and overpriced option that it doesn't come close to selling out. Its plain poor business sense; and if that's being "ruthless", its a really bad way of going about it that you p*ss off your highest paying customers.

[The Kraken]

I thought prior to this season we had no debt. Have we re-mortgaged the stadium to release funds then? How easy is it for these companies accounts to cross, or can they not? My corporate finance knowledge is meagre...

 

As is mine. I'll profess to being fairly ignorant about the precise meaning of these figures; other than that I know that they're there, and they don't make at all good reading. Which is why, for now, I'm asking questions.

[Big Bad Bob]

As is mine. I'll profess to being fairly ignorant about the precise meaning of these figures; other than that I know that they're there, and they don't make at all good reading. Which is why, for now, I'm asking questions.

 

I think, after reading Wikipedia I am still not sure what SFC's intangible assets are?? Maybe the playing staff? are they worth ~£28M?

 

I think the main bottom line is to look at the Current Liabilities v Current Assets, that still shows a -ve but a much +ve -ve!!

 

For example SFC's Total Current Liabilities: £5,576,441 against Total Current Assets: £3,821,259, which is ~ [£1.7m]

 

ST MARYS SPV LIMITED (WTF is that??) don't look that clever either, but more clever is you ignore the Net Worth!!

 

Basically I don't know, but I don't think they are as bad as if you just look at the Net Worth

[stevegrant]

SPV, I think, stands for Special Purpose Vehicle, and a company under that description is often used "to hide debt (inflating profits), hide ownership and obscure relationships between different entities which are in fact related to each other" (source: Wikipedia ).

 

Worth bearing in mind that the numbers shown there are nearly 17 months out of date. The last filed accounts for each of the companies under the club's main holding company (DMWSL613 Ltd) show the financial position as at 30th June 2011. We will get a slightly better picture at the end of March when they file the accounts for last season (they could file them now but will almost certainly wait until the last possible moment), but even they will be 9 months out of date. They should, however, include a section called "Post Balance Sheet Events", which should detail any major events or transactions that have taken place between the end of that financial period and the date the annual report is compiled. That will include the loan from Vibrac Corporation for starters...

[Saint Fan CaM]

You know it might sound daft and insignificant, but when I wash my hands in the concourse gents and find there are no paper towels left (whether this is before the match, at half-time or after the game), it does start me thinking about the management of the finances. It happens on quite a few occasions - it's not a 'one-off'.

 

To cut-back on something as seemingly simple as paper towels doesn't sit easily with me in terms of the club providing and me enjoying a 'Premiership experience'.

[Big Bad Bob]

SPV, I think, stands for Special Purpose Vehicle, and a company under that description is often used "to hide debt (inflating profits), hide ownership and obscure relationships between different entities which are in fact related to each other" (source: Wikipedia ).

 

If that is the case then why call a company an SPV then, let's hide the facts in plain site shall we

[buctootim]

Accounts are relatively meaningless when a company is owned by an individual - whats counts are their intentions, and we just don't know those.

 

The Glazer's used Man U's cashflow to load it up with debt and keep the rest of their empire afloat and got away with it, just. People like Abramovich just want a plaything or a vehicle for tax writeoffs. Saints debt might be something or nothing - without the Liebherrs saying then no-one knows.

[Smirking_Saint]

We spent 30 mil in summer, are working on a training ground which reportedly cost 15 mil and the pause in build (now started again btw) is for further improvements.

 

So no, personally I dont think we do

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

We spent 30 mil in summer, are working on a training ground which reportedly cost 15 mil and the pause in build (now started again btw) is for further improvements.

 

So no, personally I dont think we do

 

I wonder if the improvements were a front for us not being able to pay the next installment, and a loan has now been secured to carry on with the work.

 

The thing about spending £30m in the Summer. You don't actually believe we spent £30m in the Summer do you? I think the Ramirez transfer apart the fees tend to be spread over the duration of a contract. It is very rare that you spend all the money up front, ergo, we have made a commitment to pay £30m over 3 or 4 years.

[dronskisaint]

I think too much is being made of the Echo story...as someone who has run and owned a number of small businesses I don't like the culture of slow payment but in reality this was probably just a case of a bit of bill brinkmanship that the club misjudged and it's cheaper not to defend than pay out for a lawyer...I hope so anyway.

 

I also hadn't realised that the PL money wasn't paid out until June...I'd assumed that like them down the road that it was released quarterly or some succh arrangement but if not then the Cayman loan, the prudent (if unpalatable) extending of credit and various other economies make absolute sense..after all their is cashflow in the gate money, commercial and catering etc plus other sponsorship (aap3, MB, ground advertising etc) but it's the PL payout that brings the figures in to the black and allows collateral for sizeable loans.

 

Worried, no - wishing we could be as honourable as when paying out the St Mary's mortgage additional payment - well yes, I wish we were.

[Smirking_Saint]

I wonder if the improvements were a front for us not being able to pay the next installment, and a loan has now been secured to carry on with the work.

 

The thing about spending £30m in the Summer. You don't actually believe we spent £30m in the Summer do you? I think the Ramirez transfer apart the fees tend to be spread over the duration of a contract. It is very rare that you spend all the money up front, ergo, we have made a commitment to pay £30m over 3 or 4 years.

 

You can articulate how the payments happen however Ill stick with the fact we made a commitment to spend 30m in the summer. If you dont have the cash you cant do that.

[stevegrant]

I also hadn't realised that the PL money wasn't paid out until June...I'd assumed that like them down the road that it was released quarterly or some succh arrangement but if not then the Cayman loan, the prudent (if unpalatable) extending of credit and various other economies make absolute sense..after all their is cashflow in the gate money, commercial and catering etc plus other sponsorship (aap3, MB, ground advertising etc) but it's the PL payout that brings the figures in to the black and allows collateral for sizeable loans.

There are portions of the money that are paid out in stages during the season, but as the bulk of the money is determined upon how many times you're shown on TV and where you finish in the league, most of it isn't paid until the summer.

 

The Premier League prize money pot is split in the following ways:

 

DOMESTIC RIGHTS DEALS (Sky, ESPN, BBC, TalkSport)

50% of the pot shared equally between the 20 member clubs. For last season and this, that's £13.8m each.

25% of the pot distributed on a weighted basis depending on the number of times a team is featured in a televised game. Last season was actually the most lop-sided in terms of the bigger clubs being shown more often than ever before. From Everton in 7th all the way down the league, every club was only shown either 10 or 11 times live, with the exception of Liverpool in 8th (23 times!) and QPR in 17th (14 times). Each match is worth £585,000.

25% of the pot distributed on a weighted basis depending on the final league position, with each position worth £755,000 more than the position below them.

 

OVERSEAS RIGHTS DEALS (Various)

The whole pot is shared equally between the 20 member clubs. For last season and this, that's £18.8m each.

 

I would expect the overseas money and the 50% equal share from the domestic money to be distributed over the course of the season, with the remaining two 25% portions of the domestic deal being paid out at the end of the season.

 

Next season, of course, the numbers increase significantly.

[stevegrant]

You can articulate how the payments happen however Ill stick with the fact we made a commitment to spend 30m in the summer. If you dont have the cash you cant do that.

Er...

[Smirking_Saint]

Er...

 

Within reason, unless your those down the road

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

You can articulate how the payments happen however Ill stick with the fact we made a commitment to spend 30m in the summer. If you dont have the cash you cant do that.

 

Good point. No clubs have ever spent money without having it available...

 

[Smirking_Saint]

Good point. No clubs have ever spent money without having it available...

 

 

You know what I mean though, do you honestly put Cortese in the same financial mismanagement league as those down the road ?

[Bucks Saint]

Go look at the thread again, I never said I was sure. However I do think that is possibly the case and explains his continued prescence at the club.

 

But thinking about it, perhaps the reason we haven't sacked Adkins is because we can't afford to...it's something that I never really considered until now.

 

Sorry, you are right, you did not say you were sure:

 

"I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, but in my opinion he will be sacked whatever now, and will be replaced pretty much instantaneously (within a week)"

 

Maybe NA is still there purely because we have money problems now, and not because we are taking forever to find someone else. But I don't think so

[Mr X]

I still maintain and hope I'm proved wrong but the alleged 14 million for ramerez is a joke they must have saw us coming a good player but nowhere near worth that, he's ridiculously lightweight on the ball and gives away possession easily! That said he def is our best option at the moment. How many has he scored for us again?