ID cards

[Pip87]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7742619.stm

 

This is my favourite bit:

 

"Homeless people wanting ID cards may be able to give their home address as a bench, bus stop or park where they are often found"

 

The bit I don't like is all the talk of fines! Although they seem to be mainly for people who are doing their best to stop their details being held. I'm good at losing and/or destroying things accidently and would be concerned about getting fined for this.

 

I'm surprised that they are talking about large scale issuing in 2011/12. I haven't heard anything about this in a while. Is it something the government is bringing in as we're all distracted by the recession?

[hypochondriac]

Hopefully a change of government will put a stop to this nonsense.

[hypochondriac]

The National Identity Scheme will bring real and recognisable benefits for British citizens

 

 

 

 

Home office

 

What?

[Baj]

Hast du deine papier?

[Ponty]

Only an idiot would welcome this move, and plenty seem to.

[Robsk II]

Only an idiot would welcome this move, and plenty seem to.

 

Does not bother me, I have nothing to hide so why not have one?

 

Yes...

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Does not bother me, I have nothing to hide so why not have one?

 

Hmmmm, let's see.

 

How many times in this last year has a Government Department,it's employees or agents lost electronic copy of people's personal details which are held on their records?

 

So you would willingly let them keep your details?

 

What is more you'll pay them for that dubious responsibility?

[hypochondriac]

Coupled with the fact that costs will almost certainly spiral massively

[Chorlton]

We have somehow managed to exist thus far without a national ID card, so don't see why we need one now. Think I first read 1984 about 12 years ago. I have read it a couple of times since and it is getting more & more realistic.

 

Remember reading about someone voicing concerns over the ID card (may even have been on here) and they came up with an example which could well be true in 15 years or so the way we are going. You go in to a pub and order a pint and the barman asks for your ID (regardless of age). You give him your card and are refused service, as the card says that you have already had your 21 units of alcohol that week. May be far fetched, but I bet people would not have dreamed of a smoking ban in pubs 15 years ago

[Weston Super Saint]

Hmmmm, let's see.

 

How many times in this last year has a Government Department,it's employees or agents lost electronic copy of people's personal details which are held on their records?

 

So you would willingly let them keep your details?

 

What is more you'll pay them for that dubious responsibility?

 

If you think they don't already have your details then more fool you...

 

National Insurance Number, NHS Number, Driving Licence etc etc...

[Baj]

The only hope lay in the Proles

Does not bother me, I have nothing to hide so why not have one?

 

...well, we're all ****ed then

[saint_stevo]

i'm with S13, i have nothing to hide, so dont really care.

 

we have to pay for a passport anyway

[Baj]

These cards will help in alot of things like general ID and help stop terrorism.

god, do you actually buy into that crap? Would ID cards have stopped the NHS GP's from trying to blow up their car at Glasgow airport?

[saint_stevo]

god, do you actually buy into that crap? Would ID cards have stopped the NHS GP's from trying to blow up their car at Glasgow airport?

 

oh so it won't help at all then?

 

if it helps with illegal immigrants and lowers the risk of terrorists blowing us up then i'm game

[hypochondriac]

oh so it won't help at all then?

 

if it helps with illegal immigrants and lowers the risk of terrorists blowing us up then i'm game

 

Except of course the london bombers were british. I bet you anything it will be an abysmal cost to implement. I don't want to be in a situation where I am challenged in the street for my ID card. What if I have misplaced it? Having to prove who you are should not be imposed upon you by the country of your birth IMO. Holding a driving license is a choice but this is not. Terrible terrible idea and just a further example of an erosion of liberties

[Baj]

No, it wont. It will however allow the government an unprecedented level of monitoring over their citizens, as if CCTV wasnt enough. It will not stop terrorism, it will not stop illegal immigrants entering the country and then going into hiding.

 

Whats more worrying that the cards themselves are the ignorant (sorry, but that's the best word) people that don't give a monkeys about freedom and civil liberties and buy into the governement spiel of "itll stop the bad guys from blowing you up and the other lot from filling up the country".

 

Bull****, for gods sake, wake up, this is nothing more than a tool to track the people.

[Essruu]

This is my favourite bit:

 

"Homeless people wanting ID cards may be able to give their home address as a bench, bus stop or park where they are often found"

 

 

You should be able to get one then.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Hmmmm, let's see.

 

How many times in this last year has a Government Department,it's employees or agents lost electronic copy of people's personal details which are held on their records?

 

So you would willingly let them keep your details?

 

What is more you'll pay them for that dubious responsibility?

 

If you think they don't already have your details then more fool you...

 

National Insurance Number, NHS Number, Driving Licence etc etc...

 

And if you think that I'm not aware of that then even bigger fool you! Which is why I used the term willingly!

 

There is more more information on us, as individuals, collected covertly than there is collected overtly.

 

So we are well on the way to all being well documented already.

 

My issues are how the information is protected from being lost and misused.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

No, it wont. It will however allow the government an unprecedented level of monitoring over their citizens, as if CCTV wasnt enough. It will not stop terrorism, it will not stop illegal immigrants entering the country and then going into hiding.

 

Whats more worrying that the cards themselves are the ignorant (sorry, but that's the best word) people that don't give a monkeys about freedom and civil liberties and buy into the governement spiel of "itll stop the bad guys from blowing you up and the other lot from filling up the country".

 

Bull****, for gods sake, wake up, this is nothing more than a tool to track the people.

 

And then if it fails but the principle is accepted why not get us all chipped? Like your pet cat or dog!

[Mole]

In an ideal world, and with technology advancing, all new born babies should be implanted with a gps microchip. 99% of crimes would then be solved from murders to vandalism.

[Saint in Paradise]

Two snags re "chip" implants, one they can be read by someone with a small "reader" and

you would never know until your identity is used by someone else.

Two, dogs that have had implanted chips are much more prone to developing cancer, I read

this in an article written by some vet in the U.S. a few months ago.

 

http://www.rense.com/general78/cancer.htm

 

http://www.rense.com/general82/drr.htm

Edited 22 November, 2008 by Saint in Paradise

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Two snags re "chip" implants, one they can be read by someone with a small "reader" and

you would never know until your identity is used by someone else.

Two, dogs that have had implanted chips are much more prone to developing cancer, I read

this in an article written by some vet in the U.S. a few months ago.

 

http://www.rense.com/general78/cancer.htm

 

http://www.rense.com/general82/drr.htm

 

I hope that you realise my suggestion was tongue in cheek, although not beyond the realms of reality should a totalitarian regime come to power!

[Weston Super Saint]

And if you think that I'm not aware of that then even bigger fool you! Which is why I used the term willingly!

 

There is more more information on us, as individuals, collected covertly than there is collected overtly.

 

So we are well on the way to all being well documented already.

 

My issues are how the information is protected from being lost and misused.

 

I'm not convinced the Government's inability to keep the information secret and secure is going to deter them from continuing to collect it, ID card or no ID card.

[Baj]

And every generation that comes through they seem to care less for the rights that our grandfathers fought for.

 

It is a basic human right to be able to move without being tracked, watch or monitored... RFID, wouldnt surprise me if it happened in our lifetime.

 

As muted masses, transcend the classes,

Submitted freedoms, pay for national treasons,

So feed your fever, hast du deine papier

 

False flag missions, instigate decisions,

of preplanned ideas promoting your fears,

profitable war, trademark "Shock and Awe"

 

global shock, economic shock,

never conspiracy

the army are here to help you

dont ask what you can do for your country

when your country dont care about you

 

chicago boys, south american toys,

friedmans democracy,

Economics are here to help you,

220 volts, erase contrary thoughts,

crime of our century,

but the doctors are here to help you.

 

The Shock therapy, branded territory

RFID, cashless society,

So do as they bid, or you’re switched off from the grid

 

We’ll watch you watch me, Acme CCTV,

Spoonfed state food, double-plus good,

So sit down, play dumb, ‘cos they think that they’ve won.

[Minty]

I have nothing to hide so the Government will not be spying on me.

 

If the keep records of where I have been, So what they do this anyway.

 

Thats what these little ANPR lovelys are for

 

 

I'm pretty sure that's not ANPR, that's purely something that measures speed on that particular stretch of road, to signal potential traffic congestion issues.

[Weston Super Saint]

I'm pretty sure that's not ANPR, that's purely something that measures speed on that particular stretch of road, to signal potential traffic congestion issues.

 

The Police that attended another burglary at my place on Friday morning said they doubted very much that the people who did it would drive off down the motorway due to the proliferation of ANPR devices tracking their every move :smt102

[hypochondriac]

If anyone says that they have no problem with it, can they not see that bit by bit our freedoms are becoming more restricted? Just say this does come into force and is found (unsurprisingly) not to make much of a difference. Will they claim that we need to go further? At what point do you say that's enough? Is it right for the government to track our every move? Is it right that a citizen of this country could potentially be stopped and asked to prove that they belong here? The government can use this data to tell us what to do if they were that way inclined. Imagine someone like Thatcher in power armed with all this knowledge from ID cards. The thought scares me.

 

S13 SFC you may well be too young to appreciate the value of freedom but I'll be dammed if I don't fight for the right to live in my country without being forced to prove who I am (remember forced is the word here, ID cards are being imposed upon you rather than allowing you to opt in.)

 

On top of all that it is an obscene waste of money. I for one will not be carrying one, regardless of consequences. I can't imagine any support for this from the older generation, I shudder to think how things will change during my lifetime and all because people don't care because they have nothing to hide! Can you not see that that is not the issue? You shouldn't have to prove that you have done nothing wrong and that you are who you say you are. Freedom is a basic human right and it is getting eaten into. Its something I really feel strongly about because it is being imposed upon people by playing on their fears and that infuriates me.

Edited 22 November, 2008 by hypochondriac

[Weston Super Saint]

They also do ANPR and store in national ANPR database for 5 years.

 

I guess people won't believe this though, until the database is lost on a train or something....

 

Also I fail to see how an ID card will be used to track people's movements, unless of course it is fitted with some sort of GPS tracking device - entering the realms of Star Trek here aren't we???

 

I guess the only way people's movements will be tracked is if they are asked to present their ID to a police officer - presumably they would have to be doing something wrong for this to happen, as I really don't think this country employs enough police officers to waste their time examining the ID of every single person on the street. And besides, with our Police's legendary inefficiencies, you could probably have emigrated to Australia before they've filed the paperwork from their encounter....

[hypochondriac]

I guess people won't believe this though, until the database is lost on a train or something....

 

Also I fail to see how an ID card will be used to track people's movements, unless of course it is fitted with some sort of GPS tracking device - entering the realms of Star Trek here aren't we???

 

I guess the only way people's movements will be tracked is if they are asked to present their ID to a police officer - presumably they would have to be doing something wrong for this to happen, as I really don't think this country employs enough police officers to waste their time examining the ID of every single person on the street. And besides, with our Police's legendary inefficiencies, you could probably have emigrated to Australia before they've filed the paperwork from their encounter....

 

I bet the war generation laughed at the dea of a national ID card. If this gets the go ahead then I certainly wouldn't rule smething like this out in fifty years time. It's a slippery slope and as the next generation comes through they become more accepting to it.

[Weston Super Saint]

I bet the war generation laughed at the dea of a national ID card. If this gets the go ahead then I certainly wouldn't rule smething like this out in fifty years time. It's a slippery slope and as the next generation comes through they become more accepting to it.

 

Some might say inevitable?

 

Surely anything that is designed to combat crime, disorder and dare I say it war, would be a good thing wouldn't it?

 

Let's say [hypothetically] that every single person's movements and whereabouts were tracked every single minute of every single day and stored in some enormous data bank that could be accessed instantaneously, who should be the most nervous about this? Is it the person who is going about his business in a perfectly legal way and not breaking any laws, or is it the person who decides to break in to my place at 4.00am and steal all the money from the fruit machines?? I would suggest that criminals have more to lose in this situation haven't they?

[hypochondriac]

Some might say inevitable?

 

Surely anything that is designed to combat crime, disorder and dare I say it war, would be a good thing wouldn't it?

 

Let's say [hypothetically] that every single person's movements and whereabouts were tracked every single minute of every single day and stored in some enormous data bank that could be accessed instantaneously, who should be the most nervous about this? Is it the person who is going about his business in a perfectly legal way and not breaking any laws, or is it the person who decides to break in to my place at 4.00am and steal all the money from the fruit machines?? I would suggest that criminals have more to lose in this situation haven't they?

 

Of course but then I have a fair bit to lose as well that I would consider very precious.

[Weston Super Saint]

Of course but then I have a fair bit to lose as well that I would consider very precious.

 

Please explain what you would 'lose' per se...

[EastleighSoulBoy]

I'm not convinced the Government's inability to keep the information secret and secure is going to deter them from continuing to collect it, ID card or no ID card.

 

Spot on!

 

No matter how foregone the conclusion may seem though we should not accept it!

[Weston Super Saint]

Spot on!

 

No matter how foregone the conclusion may seem though we should not accept it!

 

Unfortunately as has been seen so many times in the past we are relatively powerless to do anything to stop it!

[sunrise]

We are already the most monitored country in the world, with the next step being ID cards. Stalin would've been proud of what his modern day Socialist colleagues are trying to do.

[Weston Super Saint]

We are already the most monitored country in the world, with the next step being ID cards. Stalin would've been proud of what his modern day Socialist colleagues are trying to do.

 

More than China :shock:

[bridge too far]

We are already the most monitored country in the world, with the next step being ID cards. Stalin would've been proud of what his modern day Socialist colleagues are trying to do.

 

I would very seriously question the use of that word to describe our current government.

[Weston Super Saint]

Of course but then I have a fair bit to lose as well that I would consider very precious.

 

Please explain what you would 'lose' per se...

 

That Much eh?

[hypochondriac]

That Much eh?

 

Unfortunately I am posting on my mobile so it is difficult to reply to everything. Please read my replies and baj's then you will realise what britain as a nation will lose. Better yet, type no2id into google and read for yourself. I wont convince you clearly and you will reply with some 'witty' response so this a bit of a wasted post

[Weston Super Saint]

Please read my replies and baj's then you will realise what britain as a nation will lose.

 

Ok....

 

If anyone says that they have no problem with it, can they not see that bit by bit our freedoms are becoming more restricted? Just say this does come into force and is found (unsurprisingly) not to make much of a difference.

 

On top of all that it is an obscene waste of money. I for one will not be carrying one, regardless of consequences.

 

So, basically you say our freedom will be more restricted, and yet you say that if/when the ID cards do come in, they (unsurprisingly) won't make much of a difference. Are we to assume that our freedoms are already restricted?

 

 

I don't want to be in a situation where I am challenged in the street for my ID card. What if I have misplaced it? Having to prove who you are should not be imposed upon you by the country of your birth IMO.

 

So, basically, your only real objection is that you don't want to be challenged in the street for your ID card which you might have misplaced.... I imagine they wouldn't ship you off to Guantanamo but might allow you time to find it, like they do with driving licences... That is of course if you ever get stopped anyway - I can honestly say I have never been stopped thus far in my life for just going about my legitimate business....