Jack Cork

[Miltonroadboy]

Thought he had a good game on his return but did anyone else notice how knackered he was halfway through the second half, which was not surprising considering? But it was his tired pass back from an attacking position which led to the Yoshida pass back which Gazza then messed up. Surely NA should have recognised there was a problem and made a substitution? Sorry if this is mentioned elsewhere but I feel another example of a poor - or in this case lack of - substitution.

[The Kraken]

I really hope you're miltonroader's son. That would be super.

[Legod Third Coming]

I shouted just before Cork passed the ball. By your logic I am also culpable for our goal!

 

It wasn't Cork who screwed up it was Gazza.

 

Why don't you cut Adkins some slack. There were no tactical mistakes yesterday just a kid making a poor decision.

 

And guess what. Kids do that sometimes.

[Saint-Armstrong]

Nigel took Shaw off because he was knackered and a load of morons still slated him on here.

 

Cork was one of our best performers, if he had gone off and they'd then equalised or won then Nigel would be getting slaughtered again.

 

He is in a no-win situation.

[Colinjb]

Thought he had a good game on his return but did anyone else notice how knackered he was halfway through the second half, which was not surprising considering? But it was his tired pass back from an attacking position which led to the Yoshida pass back which Gazza then messed up. Surely NA should have recognised there was a problem and made a substitution? Sorry if this is mentioned elsewhere but I feel another example of a poor - or in this case lack of - substitution.

 

That would have been extremely harsh. He was our best midfielder for me yesterday and played a key role in a positive performance. Getting the full 90 minutes under his belt will be vital for his conditioning after being out for so long. My personal feeling is that a combination of the poor clearance from Gazza and subsequent poor control from Yoshida caused the goal, no one person is to blame.

[VectisSaint]

It wasn't Cork who screwed up it was Gazza.

I didn't notice Cork was knackered, but it was certainly his poor decision-making that lead to the goal. If that poor decision-making was caused by fatigue then it is understandable. But I'm certainly not going to blame Adkins for not substituting him. Sure Gazza ****ed up but he and Yoshi should never have been put into the position in the first place. Midfield defending has been poor on several occasions this season, unfortunately Cork who was probably man of the match apart from this did screw up in this regard. Harsh but true. Too many people see the end result and fail to look for the root cause.

[The Kraken]

Jack Cork is being blamed for playing a safe backpass to the keeper?

 

Ok then

[Legod Third Coming]

I didn't notice Cork was knackered, but it was certainly his poor decision-making that lead to the goal. If that poor decision-making was caused by fatigue then it is understandable. But I'm certainly not going to blame Adkins for not substituting him. Sure Gazza ****ed up but he and Yoshi should never have been put into the position in the first place. Midfield defending has been poor on several occasions this season, unfortunately Cork who was probably man of the match apart from this did screw up in this regard. Harsh but true. Too many people see the end result and fail to look for the root cause.

 

The ball often ends up with a keeper under pressure. You simply boot the fecking ball up field or into the crowd.

[Colinjb]

The ball often ends up with a keeper under pressure. You simply boot the fecking ball up field or into the crowd.

 

Which is absolutely not how we are set up. The ability of our players to sustain our possession play though is another question entirely.

[Legod Third Coming]

Which is absolutely not how we are set up. The ability of our players to sustain our possession play though is another question entirely.

 

Aye, we are set up to play the ball out, which I like and admire. BUT BUT BUT. In any game, even at the Nou Camp, when the ball is coming to the keeper with a man attacking him and not a single outlet even there they have two feet and the capacity to SWING one of them!!!

 

If in doubt, put the fecking thing OUT!

[Colinjb]

If in doubt, put the fecking thing OUT!

 

Ooooooooo, a very English attitude.

[Legod Third Coming]

Ooooooooo, a very English attitude.

 

There are some football rules which transcend language and nationality!

[Colinjb]

There are some football rules which transcend language and nationality!

 

Is 'Put it in the mixer' included in that?

 

I don't like the whole 'if in doubt' idea, yes, it gets the ball clear but at best leaves you in only 50/50 chance of retaining possession and most of the time gifts it to the opposition. When in possession the opposition cannot score so to surrender it so readily in the name of perceived safety just feels so rash.

 

If the tactical system and player awareness are up to scratch then hoof it out should never be the first reaction for me.

[Legod Third Coming]

Is 'Put it in the mixer' included in that?

 

I don't like the whole 'if in doubt' idea, yes, it gets the ball clear but at best leaves you in only 50/50 chance of retaining possession and most of the time gifts it to the opposition. When in possession the opposition cannot score so to surrender it so readily in the name of perceived safety just feels so rash.

 

If the tactical system and player awareness are up to scratch then hoof it out should never be the first reaction for me.

 

Sometimes, the best option regardless is to have the ball in the crowd and regroup. Put it this way, I would rather Gazza had kicked the ball to me in the back of the Chapel than set up Nathan Dyer!

[Colinjb]

Sometimes, the best option regardless is to have the ball in the crowd and regroup. Put it this way, I would rather Gazza had kicked the ball to me in the back of the Chapel than set up Nathan Dyer!

 

Well quite. But the pass to Yoshida wasn't the error, his rush to get it out rather then consider his options and look to the right side of our back four was.

[Legod Third Coming]

Well quite. But the pass to Yoshida wasn't the error, his rush to get it out rather then consider his options and look to the right side of our back four was.

 

Aye, I forgive the lad though - he's only young and usually his distribution is alright. His kicking is actually pretty accurate normally, don't you think? He seems to have an ability to hit Lambert (which I think we could have done a bit more, he was murdering their right back!)

[Colinjb]

Aye, I forgive the lad though - he's only young and usually his distribution is alright. His kicking is actually pretty accurate normally, don't you think? He seems to have an ability to hit Lambert (which I think we could have done a bit more, he was murdering their right back!)

 

Yes, his distribution does seem to be quite good. Athletic, good reactions, commands the area well, I think we have found a bit of a gem. If he can keep Boruc out of the team as one of Serie A's better 'keepers from last year gets his fitness back then it bodes well.

[aintforever]

Is 'Put it in the mixer' included in that?

 

I don't like the whole 'if in doubt' idea, yes, it gets the ball clear but at best leaves you in only 50/50 chance of retaining possession and most of the time gifts it to the opposition. When in possession the opposition cannot score so to surrender it so readily in the name of perceived safety just feels so rash.

 

If the tactical system and player awareness are up to scratch then hoof it out should never be the first reaction for me.

 

But a 50/50 chance of losing possession in the opposition's half is sometimes a better than risking losing it in your third of the pitch. Especially when the opponents are throwing players forward trying to get an equaliser.

 

We've had countless hairy moments this season trying to play Adkin's possession football at the back, if we carry on we will go down for sure IMO. How many games have we lost from a winning position?

[Glasgow_Saint]

Giraffes were created when Jack Cork uppercutted a horse

[Colinjb]

But a 50/50 chance of losing possession in the opposition's half is sometimes a better than risking losing it in your third of the pitch. Especially when the opponents are throwing players forward trying to get an equaliser.

 

We've had countless hairy moments this season trying to play Adkin's possession football at the back, if we carry on we will go down for sure IMO. How many games have we lost from a winning position?

 

 

As I said above:

 

But the pass to Yoshida wasn't the error, his rush to get it out rather then consider his options and look to the right side of our back four was.

 

It's too crude a methodology to just hit it out, and symptomatic of the attitude and culture of this country which has seen us develop technically limited players.

 

We essentially controlled the game yesterday by keeping possession, by going route one every time we were under pressure we wouldn't have kept the ball, wouldn't have controlled the game to the same degree and I believe wouldn't have even got a point.

[aintforever]

As I said above:

 

 

 

It's too crude a methodology to just hit it out, and symptomatic of the attitude and culture of this country which has seen us develop technically limited players.

 

We essentially controlled the game yesterday by keeping possession, by going route one every time we were under pressure we wouldn't have kept the ball, wouldn't have controlled the game to the same degree and I believe wouldn't have even got a point.

 

I'm not saying they should just hoof it every time but their are certain situations where it is good defending to play percentages, it doesn't matter what level you are playing at.

 

Swansea didn't look like scoring at all in the second half, if Gazza had put his foot through that I'm pretty sure we would have won.

 

We stayed in the Prem for years with Benali n co playing percentages when they needed to. It's common sense especially when you are up against better teams almost every week.

[Colinjb]

I'm not saying they should just hoof it every time but their are certain situations where it is good defending to play percentages, it doesn't matter what level you are playing at.

 

Swansea didn't look like scoring at all in the second half, if Gazza had put his foot through that I'm pretty sure we would have won.

 

We stayed in the Prem for years with Benali n co playing percentages when they needed to. It's common sense especially when you are up against better teams almost every week.

 

For every one that works, one will not. At best the odds are 50/50.

 

In aiming to keep possession the odds increase in your favour. The short term action of a hoof may provide immediate gain but longer term that attitude is damaging. On balance I would never advocate us resorting to it unless there truly was no other option..... and in the case of yesterday that wasn't the case, it was simply a poor decision to pass to Yoshida, not play out from the back.

[Colinjb]

Watching MOTD 2.

 

Cork's pass was perfectly weighted and hit to Yoshida. Yoshi then played it 'safe' and hit it back to the keeper, Swansea pressed us high and had men on both Yoshida and Fonte who were on their own with both full-backs committed forward.

 

Yoshida's control when the ball came to him back from Gazza was terrible, floating in the air, the ball was unshielded and inviting the challenge. Yoshida should have shielded it better and turned the ball away from danger with his first touch. More individual errors.

[Hedgehog]

An error by anyone of 3 players for the goal, all mentioned by different people and mentioning different players as to who should take the blame. But surely it is how the players are being coached, and passing back to the goalkeeper seems to be inbred at the club. We were doing it in league 1 and the championship and these errors of bad pass backs cost us goals. The difference now is we are up against far better (in most cases) players and these schoolboy errors are well and truly punished.

[the saint in winchester]

I shouted just before Cork passed the ball. By your logic I am also culpable for our goal!

 

It wasn't Cork who screwed up it was Gazza.

Why don't you cut Adkins some slack. There were no tactical mistakes yesterday just a kid making a poor decision.

 

And guess what. Kids do that sometimes.

 

They can all share the blame. There was no need to go backwards, and Yoshida was foolish to kick it back to Gazza, knowing he can't pick it up. Yes, he could have hoofed it into Row Z but so could Yoshida, so could Cork ... etc.

[Smirking_Saint]

Watching MOTD 2.

 

Cork's pass was perfectly weighted and hit to Yoshida. Yoshi then played it 'safe' and hit it back to the keeper, Swansea pressed us high and had men on both Yoshida and Fonte who were on their own with both full-backs committed forward.

 

Yoshida's control when the ball came to him back from Gazza was terrible, floating in the air, the ball was unshielded and inviting the challenge. Yoshida should have shielded it better and turned the ball away from danger with his first touch. More individual errors.

 

Both you and chapel end have said this, I cant agree TBH it is likely Yoshi was taken by surprise and actually didnt want it. Added to the fact it was a terrible pass pitched up to between his chest and knee it would have been difficult to control properly, then factor in Dyer running at him !!

 

In all honesty Gazza should have lumped it or tried an easier pass, was Clyne free ?

[Windmill Arm 2]

Thought he had a good game on his return but did anyone else notice how knackered he was halfway through the second half, which was not surprising considering? But it was his tired pass back from an attacking position which led to the Yoshida pass back which Gazza then messed up. Surely NA should have recognised there was a problem and made a substitution? Sorry if this is mentioned elsewhere but I feel another example of a poor - or in this case lack of - substitution.

 

Yep, it was all Adkins fault, Adkins out...........FFS, give me strength.

[Monk]

Danny Foxx.

[Smirking_Saint]

How was Danny Fox involved ? Obviously its just easier to blame him ?

[Saint Without a Halo]

They can all share the blame. There was no need to go backwards, and Yoshida was foolish to kick it back to Gazza, knowing he can't pick it up. Yes, he could have hoofed it into Row Z but so could Yoshida, so could Cork ... etc.

 

Yes football is a team game and as a team we certainly ****ed up that brief passage of play. However overall we played well and that at least bodes well going forward!

[rooney]

I watched it on MOTD and Yoshida passed the ball back to Gazza and then moved out for the return pass. He may have shouted for it back as he thought he had plenty of space, but failed to control the ball and Dyer nipped in. I think young Gaaza would have probably followed the shout bowing to an older player and he too did not not give an easy ball to Yoshida. On balance therefore it would be Gazzas fault but he will learn from this. I can remember Peter Crouch fannying about with a ball in the Chapel End penalty area instead of burying it in the top tier. he lost it and the opposing team scored. He learned from that too.

[JustinR]

I can remember Peter Crouch fannying about with a ball in the Chapel End penalty area instead of burying it in the top tier. he lost it and the opposing team scored. He learned from that too.

 

Yeah Peter Crouch learnt. And we went down

 

Lets hope this "lesson" doesn't cost us to same

[Colinjb]

Both you and chapel end have said this, I cant agree TBH it is likely Yoshi was taken by surprise and actually didnt want it. Added to the fact it was a terrible pass pitched up to between his chest and knee it would have been difficult to control properly, then factor in Dyer running at him !!

 

In all honesty Gazza should have lumped it or tried an easier pass, was Clyne free ?

 

No, Clyne was pushed upfield supporting an attack, Fonte was the other option, still under pressure but a far better ball playing centre back. Gazza didn't need to unload the ball straight away either, so further error was made in the panicked clearance.

Edited 12 November, 2012 by Colinjb

[Thedelldays]

No, Clyne was pushed upfield supporting an attack, Fonte was the other option, still under pressure but a far better ball playing centre back.

 

Lets be honest. Gazza is favour of the month. If Boruc had did what gazza did, he would have been slaughtered and boo'd at the game I suspect

[Miltonaggro]

Lets be honest. Gazza is favour of the month. If Boruc had did what gazza did, he would have been slaughtered and boo'd at the game I suspect

 

Wouldn't mind betting Artur, the fan's favourite, is between the sticks at QPR...

[fanimal]

All Yoshis fault I am afraid; he was facing FORWARD when he got the ball from Cork; he had time to look up and either float it in to Lambert or go wide to Shaw who was in space; so why bother passing back to the GK who had even further to 'lump' it forward if choosing that option? Leave the nipper alone. Maybe he didnt see Shaw though? I still maintain we should dump the all red kit as players out wide blend with the crowd. Get some proper white stripes back in ASAP!!

[Smirking_Saint]

So basically we all blame the out of favour players to spare the flavour of the month ?

 

Nothing like subjectivity, the fact Fox was ever anywhere near blame is laughable, I wouldnt mind betting if Guly was on the pitch he would equally had been blamed somehow.

 

Some times our fans are pathetic knee jerk ***ts

 

Im not calling for Gazzas head, and he will learn, it was a freak accident thats all and Dyer pulled out a good finish. I couldnt remember if Gazza was being closed down or not colinbut yeah I thought he had more time, he is usually decent passing wise so you can forgive him playing it out first time ish. All Im saying is you cant really blame Yoshi for miscontrolling a poor ball.

 

F*cking lol at what I just read at the end of Fanimals post though, blended in ? Really ? Wow

[Smirking_Saint]

All Yoshis fault I am afraid; he was facing FORWARD when he got the ball from Cork; he had time to look up and either float it in to Lambert or go wide to Shaw who was in space; so why bother passing back to the GK who had even further to 'lump' it forward if choosing that option? Leave the nipper alone. Maybe he didnt see Shaw though? I still maintain we should dump the all red kit as players out wide blend with the crowd. Get some proper white stripes back in ASAP!!

 

I wanted to importalise this in quote, such is its excellence.

[Charlie Wayman]

did anyone else notice how knackered he was halfway through the second half,

 

Well quite obviously everyone did notice, it was after all his first full 90 mins this season. What a game he had and what a difference it makes when he and Morgan play this well together.

 

It is ridiculous to implicate him in the stupid error that led to their goal. 'Gazza' (as he is called on here) had all the time in the world to get the ball away safely but being a slave to the Adkins dogma of "passing out from the back" the poor young kid was programmed to do as he was told so picked the nearest guy to him who happened to be unprepared and off balance - but I guess all he could see was a red shirt with some space.

 

Having a system is OK but players need to be allowed some flexibility and initiative to express themselves, that's what makes great players as opposed to squad journeymen.

[david in sweden]

That would have been extremely harsh. He was our best midfielder for me yesterday and played a key role in a positive performance. Getting the full 90 minutes under his belt will be vital for his conditioning after being out for so long. My personal feeling is that a combination of the poor clearance from Gazza and subsequent poor control from Yoshida caused the goal, no one person is to blame.

 

 

AGREED.

Ramirez looked a poor shadow of his former self last week.

 

This week it was Jack's first full game back. Looking good in training is not the same as playing 95 mins. of Prem football. Of course he looked tired.

[saintbob40]

I don't rate Gazza and he does not inspire me with confidence. I have seen great redwoods fall quicker than he did for that goal and that for me is more disturbing than the distribution error itself.

 

Cork was excellent and will only get better. I noticed the stats in the Sunday papers had him and Morgan neck and neck on distance covered. Perhaps he looked tired because he tried hard....just a thought. It's the ones without a bead of sweat after 60 minutes that you should be more worried about.

[Window Cleaner]

I don't rate Gazza and he does not inspire me with confidence. I have seen great redwoods fall quicker than he did for that goal and that for me is more disturbing than the distribution error itself.

 

 

Hah, I'm not the only who thought he went down far too late then. I'd fault him for West Brom's second goal as well. He does not

position himself very well. Still the experts here tell me he's the future of the club, they also told me we didn't need a new keeper last summer.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

Personally I think that Jack Cork has been the missing link for us this season.

[scotty]

Gazza made a mistake, trying to pass it out and play it when the situation screamed out for a f*cking great hoof into either the oppo half or row Z. Simple as that. We saw the same thing last two seasons, Kelvin fannying around with attackers streaming in and still trying to play it out from the back; theres a time and place for that, but putting your own defence under that sort of pressure is pointless. The keepers have obviously been told to play it out that way, so I dont entirely blame Gazza, who imho had a very good game otherwise and is probably our first choice keeper atm.