The age factor

[melmacian_saint]

Right guys, quick analysis on something I was thinking walking back after the game. Aren't we regularly fielding the youngest (and certainly most inexperienced) team in the league?

 

Looking at yesterday:

 

Gazzaniga (age 20)

Shaw (age 17)

Fonte (age 27)

Yoshida (age 24)

Clyne (age 21)

Schneiderlin (age 23)

Cork (age 23), usually Davis (age 27)

Ramirez (age 21)

Lallana (age 24)

Puncheon (age 26), quite often Rodriguez (age 23)

Lambert (age 30)

 

Don't even know if the average age of the Olympic squad wasn't higher...and even by introducing other players, apart from GK players (Boruc 32, Davis 36) it won't really increase its value.

 

And more importantly, almost no PL minutes between most of them, yet trying to play a very risky style of football, at every position.

 

I know it's been mostly down to individual situations, but aren't they really down to this?

 

If the trend is the usual for these infant teams, then I suppose to this near-horror start a string of fine results and performances will follow and we will avoid relegation. But who knows...

[The Kraken]

Yep; was having this chat with a Liverpool supporting mate of mine who suggested they had one of the youngest teams/squads.

 

That said I think I'd have preferred it if we'd signed a decent experienced GK and CB to add to that; I don't think we have the balance of youth and experience quite right.

[Frank's cousin]

Yep; was having this chat with a Liverpool supporting mate of mine who suggested they had one of the youngest teams/squads.

 

That said I think I'd have preferred it if we'd signed a decent experienced GK and CB to add to that; I don't think we have the balance of youth and experience quite right.

 

For me its why we need to cut them and NA some slack - we are trying to build something, yet expectation is that it should be far further along. Yes there is logic in the 'blend of experience and youth' but only in as much that we have done that before and whilst it meant some good mid table seasons, we were never going to do more than that in the prem era. Key is in how long we can keep such a side together - and the impact of a relegation on both who stays and psychologically, but for me its why I am positive, not because I canmt see how this sides lack of experience is impacting on results, but because I actually like the idea and approach we are takiing here - even if it means tough times from a results perspective.

[Graffito]

You won't win anything with kids.

 

It's a good point though. Saints, liverpool, villa. All struggling a little.

[Frank's cousin]

You won't win anything with kids.

 

It's a good point though. Saints, liverpool, villa. All struggling a little.

 

True we wont, we may even get relegated... but keep that talent together for 3 or 4 seasons and who knows - and for me its that 'potential' that is more interseting than had we signed a telfer and Delap... its teh reaosn why the likes of Bayer Leverkusen get cyclic success, and others in Germany - luckily for tehm their best youngsters sty until around 22/23, ours tend to feck off at 17.... so we will see

[The Kraken]

For me its why we need to cut them and NA some slack - we are trying to build something' date=' yet expectation is that it should be far further along. Yes there is logic in the 'blend of experience and youth' but only in as much that we have done that before and whilst it meant some good mid table seasons, we were never going to do more than that in the prem era. Key is in how long we can keep such a side together - and the impact of a relegation on both who stays and psychologically, but for me its why I am positive, not because I canmt see how this sides lack of experience is impacting on results, but because I actually like the idea and approach we are takiing here - even if it means tough times from a results perspective.[/quote']

 

Expectation is rightly that we should be far further along; we spent £30M in the summer. Which is roughly equal to the total sum spent by all three promoted clubs last season (who all stayed up).

 

First year in the PL is about consolidation.

[beatlesaint]

I am amazed that Yoshida is only 24 !

I thought he was about 28 - 30.

[adrian lord]

You only win with kids if the kids are supremely talented...Busby babes, and again UtD in mid 90s.

 

We should have anchored our TheSaintsWay Vision thing with a 27 yo midfield general and enforcer type, a la Roy Keane, plus a similar aged 6'3" thug in defence. With Lambert up front at 30, you have a spine of experience and grit in the team of saplings.

[Graffito]

True we wont' date=' we may even get relegated... but keep that talent together for 3 or 4 seasons and who knows - and for me its that 'potential' that is more interseting than had we signed a telfer and Delap... its teh reaosn why the likes of Bayer Leverkusen get cyclic success, and others in Germany - luckily for tehm their best youngsters sty until around 22/23, ours tend to feck off at 17.... so we will see[/quote']

 

You might use Ajax as another example.

 

It will be quite an achievement for the staff to keep the club up this season and keep this young squad together so it can develop in the PL rather than go down and inevitably lose some of them.

[Jack]

I said this in the match thread. If we pull it off and survive this season, I think we'll only grow and improve as a team. Throw in a couple of decent and proven defenders, and a goalkeeper who's going to come straight in and make the number 1 shirt his own, and I reckon we'd be on for consistent mid-table finishes, pushing for the top half.

[Mowgli]

Expectation yes. Realism no. For all we know we aimed to spend £50 in the summer (remember we are ahead of schedule in the 5 year plan and Cortese confirmed that this meant there would be more available for transfers). We got the playmaker but could not secure the top class defender we needed. **** happens, we're still better off because we have that playmaker. Still confident that given the time and support, NA will keep us up with this squad. Would be nice to get another one or two central defenders in January though.

[The Kraken]

You only win with kids if the kids are supremely talented...Busby babes, and again UtD in mid 90s.

 

We should have anchored our TheSaintsWay Vision thing with a 27 yo midfield general and enforcer type, a la Roy Keane, plus a similar aged 6'3" thug in defence. With Lambert up front at 30, you have a spine of experience and grit in the team of saplings.

 

Amen.

[Badger]

Right guys, quick analysis on something I was thinking walking back after the game. Aren't we regularly fielding the youngest (and certainly most inexperienced) team in the league?

 

Looking at yesterday:

 

Gazzaniga (age 20)

Shaw (age 17)

Fonte (age 27)

Yoshida (age 24)

Clyne (age 21)

Schneiderlin (age 23)

Cork (age 23), usually Davis (age 27)

Ramirez (age 21)

Lallana (age 24)

Puncheon (age 26), quite often Rodriguez (age 23)

Lambert (age 30)

 

If the trend is the usual for these infant teams, then I suppose to this near-horror start a string of fine results and performances will follow and we will avoid relegation. But who knows...

 

I had not previously considered this, but yes it certainly looks a young side, with exceptions of RL & Fonte. This looks younger than the team Chris Nichol regularly fielded c 1989, but one significant difference is that this lot don't have a Jimmy Case to lead them on the field.

 

As for what happens next, my big fear is that if we do go down, most of them p!ss off somewhere else.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

I had not previously considered this, but yes it certainly looks a young side, with exceptions of RL & Fonte. This looks younger than the team Chris Nichol regularly fielded c 1989, but one significant difference is that this lot don't have a Jimmy Case to lead them on the field.

 

As for what happens next, my big fear is that if we do go down, most of them p!ss off somewhere else.

 

This is always the difficulty. Young players who start to prove themselves in the Prem, get relegated and then get bought by a Prem team who will benefit from their hard won experience. If we get relegated I can see Rickie going somewhere like Villa or Stoke next season too.

[Frank's cousin]

Expectation is rightly that we should be far further along; we spent £30M in the summer. Which is roughly equal to the total sum spent by all three promoted clubs last season (who all stayed up).

 

First year in the PL is about consolidation.

 

Depends though surely - simply saying we shoudl be further along beacsue we spent big money is fair , had we spent that money on seasoned older players - but we did not, we spent the biggest chunk on a 21 year old playmaker - they type of player that is the most expensive and would be unaffordable if in their 27 year old peak - the rest alos on younger players. Yes, I agree we woudl be beter equipped for survival with more experience, that much is obvious, but we would be committed to older players on 3-4 year deals and good wages, that would as in many other clubs, bar the way in for many youngsters.... There is no rght and worng here IMHO, just depends on howyou view the prem v the approach we are taking.

[The Kraken]

Depends though surely - simply saying we shoudl be further along beacsue we spent big money is fair ' date=' had we spent that money on seasoned older players - but we did not, we spent the biggest chunk on a 21 year old playmaker - they type of player that is the most expensive and would be unaffordable if in their 27 year old peak - the rest alos on younger players. Yes, I agree we woudl be beter equipped for survival with more experience, that much is obvious, but we would be committed to older players on 3-4 year deals and good wages, that would as in many other clubs, bar the way in for many youngsters.... There is no rght and worng here IMHO, just depends on howyou view the prem v the approach we are taking.[/quote']

 

I think you've missed my original point. I said that we perhaps should have signed one or two experienced heads at GK and CB. A mix of experience and youth is of course what is required; I don't see that we have that (especially with both Davis' out of the team, we have no extensive top league experience other than that).

[Colinjb]

Luke Shaw was subbed yesterday as he was shattered.

 

At what age generally do players hit their peak in terms of stamina? Shipping late goals can be a killer to any survival hopes, with such a young squad will they/can they be conditioned appropriately?

[Saint_clark]

This is always the difficulty. Young players who start to prove themselves in the Prem' date=' get relegated and then get bought by a Prem team who will benefit from their hard won experience. If we get relegated I can see Rickie going somewhere like Villa or Stoke next season too.[/quote']

 

I've always thought that we'd keep the majority of our team together if relegated, we've been very careful about the type of players we've signed over the last few years. Players may prefer to move, but they're professional enough that they'll still put in every ounce of effort while they're under contract.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Luke Shaw was subbed yesterday as he was shattered.

 

At what age generally do players hit their peak in terms of stamina? Shipping late goals can be a killer to any survival hopes, with such a young squad will they/can they be conditioned appropriately?

I seem to remember (although my memory isn't that great so feel free to correct me) that we used to score quite a lot of late goals under WGS? Look at ManC this year, they seem to have won all of their games in the last few mins. A lot to be said for that. Much better than scoring in the first half and trying in vain to hold on.

[Saint_clark]

Luke Shaw was subbed yesterday as he was shattered.

 

At what age generally do players hit their peak in terms of stamina? Shipping late goals can be a killer to any survival hopes, with such a young squad will they/can they be conditioned appropriately?

 

Bale regularly played full games for us, although he did have a couple of weeks off around january time I seem to remember.

Shaw will be fit enough after a few more high intensity matches IMO.

[Frank's cousin]

I think you've missed my original point. I said that we perhaps should have signed one or two experienced heads at GK and CB. A mix of experience and youth is of course what is required; I don't see that we have that (especially with both Davis' out of the team, we have no extensive top league experience other than that).

 

Fair enough - IMHO, the problem here has been driven by teh need for 'survival' - which as we all know is driven by the ridiculously large disparity in revenue between the prem and the CCC. That fear of what relegation may do to a plan or longer term investment drives the decisons most clubs make and its why despite the self proclaimed 'greatest' league in the, much of van be dull as dishwater with minimal possibilty of a Wigan, or Sunderland or even Saints breaking into the top 4 - which the prem dont give a feck about as the revenue is generated by global armchair audiences, whi mostly support the current top 4 incumbants.... so for me its refreshing to see a club try and do its own thing, naive, yeah, maiing it more difficult for ourselves to survive, yep, but also a statement that if we do want to at least try and be better than also rans, we need to start as we mean to go on - youth that has a chance to develop as a unit. Means short term its going to be a huge struggle, but it does have longer term potential... maybe...

[Saint Garrett]

Let's also look at it this way...where were our players playing last season??? If you look at the squad from Saturday's game...

 

Gazza - L2

 

Clyne - NPC

Fonte - NPC

Yoshi - Erdivisie

Shaw - Youth team

 

Cork - NPC

Morgan - NPC

 

Punch - Prem/NPC (Did he make an appearance for QPR ?)

Gaston - Serie A

Lallana - NPC

 

Lambert - NPC

 

Bench:

Davis - NPC

Jos - NPC

J-Rod - NPC

Davis - SPL

Mayuka - Swiss league

Fox - NPC

JWP - Youth team.

 

This says a lot IMO.

[david in sweden]

Right guys, quick analysis on something I was thinking walking back after the game. Aren't we regularly fielding the youngest (and certainly most inexperienced) team in the league?

 

Looking at yesterday:

 

Gazzaniga (age 20)

Shaw (age 17)

Fonte (age 27)

Yoshida (age 24)

Clyne (age 21)

Schneiderlin (age 23)

Cork (age 23), usually Davis (age 27)

Ramirez (age 21)

Lallana (age 24)

Puncheon (age 26), quite often Rodriguez (age 23)

Lambert (age 30) QUOTE]

 

 

 

REPLY;

I appreciate stats, too....and the average age of the above start side is 23 years and 3 months to the nearest decimal month (!) Agreed it's the same generation as Bale and Walcott ..but our side is not full of Bales and Walcotts. Altogether Too young for the Prem. considering almost none of them had any Prem. experience before August. We needed a couple of older heads there.