West Ham - whats the difference

[John B]

Are we going to see TDD's post about West Ham each time they win? That would be interesting wouldn't it.

 

It does appear that Dell Days thinks our team and manager are better than they are.

 

They are both relatively young and inexperienced in the PL which makes it very difficult to grind out wins.

 

I dont doubt most will become decent PL players but it will take a little time something we dont have at the moment

 

To survive we need say another 32 points in 27 games 8 wins 8 draws 11 losses not impossible but so far 1 win 2 draws 8 losses so it is going to be difficult

[teamsaint]

West Ham weren't rubbish last season.

Their away form was excellent.they blew promotion with a run of nervous home performances.

[Dig Dig]

It does appear that Dell Days thinks our team and manager are better than they are.

 

They are both relatively young and inexperienced in the PL which makes it very difficult to grind out wins.

 

I dont doubt most will become decent PL players but it will take a little time something we dont have at the moment

 

To survive we need say another 32 points in 27 games 8 wins 8 draws 11 losses not impossible but so far 1 win 2 draws 8 losses so it is going to be difficult

 

It's just another excuse to have a pop at what was probably just a small number of posters saying that west ham and fat sam were **** last season.

 

If TDD's was a west ham fan he would have been throwing his toys out of the pram when they couldn't win a game at home, finished third and nearly blew the play off final.

 

Absolutely pointless thread.

[Golac's Iron Gonads]

I'm not sure what they are doing right, I have a feeling it's an awful lot of luck, I've lost a considerable sum of money backing them to lose against a variety of teams, in all the games they have been absolutely battered and somehow managed to avoid defeat. A quick look at the fantasy stats show that Jaaskelainen has made 48 saves this season, the highest of all prem keepers. I think if someone could find the number of shots they've allowed on goal it wouldn't be that different from ours.

[thegaffer]

let me tell you that the players and staff always believed they could win the game.

They won today at Newcastle. Surely this is one that should have be written off as having no chance?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

last season they were (apparently) really really rubbish

play rubbish football with an utterly terrible manager

 

carroll is utter garbage and collins is a joke.

 

however, they are sitting nicely near the top end of the league with yet another win...4 points from 2 fixtures many saints fans would have written off completely....

 

they have hardly bought in worldys as players

 

what are they doing differently...what are they doing that is massively more successful than us..?

 

have we gotten THAT bad..? or have they gotten that much better than us..

crazy that in a few months, how things have changed..

 

This is where you show your ignorance.

 

1. Carroll is not utter garbage.

2. Collins is better than what we have as I pointed out in the Summer.

3. Diame is better than what we have as I pointed out in the Summer.

4. Maiga is better than Rodriguez as I pointed out in the Summer.

5. Jaaskalainen is better than what we have as I pointed out in the Summer.

6. Benayoun is better than what we have as I pointed out in the Summer.

 

They have a much better team than we do, they strengthened in the correct areas. It was as if Sam Allardyce had managed in the Premier League before and realise a) how to set up a team to do well in Premier League (b) knows which areas of the team are important to strengthen.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

They have a nasty b+stard in midfield called Kevin Nolan whereas our midfield in rammed with Mr "after you Claude" types.

[Saint Charlie]

This is where you show your ignorance.

 

1. Carroll is not utter garbage.

2. Collins is better than what we have as I pointed out in the Summer.

3. Diame is better than what we have as I pointed out in the Summer.

4. Maiga is better than Rodriguez as I pointed out in the Summer.

5. Jaaskalainen is better than what we have as I pointed out in the Summer.

6. Benayoun is better than what we have as I pointed out in the Summer.

 

They have a much better team than we do, they strengthened in the correct areas. It was as if Sam Allardyce had managed in the Premier League before and realise a) how to set up a team to do well in Premier League (b) knows which areas of the team are important to strengthen.

 

Plus the fact that when you see their lineup they are all players that have played msot of their career in the Prem ie Nolan, Noble, Tomkins, O'Neil, McCartney, Cole, Benayoun, Carroll etc. Seeing as they had lots of those players last year who had extensive Prem experience it also shows how well we adapted to the division to beat them over a whole season.

 

They were used to the quality because the players had all experienced it before, we hadn't. partly due to recruitment and partyl due to the fact the were in the CCC from the Prem and we were in it from L1.

[Saint Charlie]

They have a nasty b+stard in midfield called Kevin Nolan whereas our midfield in rammed with Mr "after you Claude" types.

 

And in the game at Upton Park our midfield was fine, out played theirs first half. Its defensively where the difference between the sides is.

 

The two early goals after HT - both poor defensive errors cost us at least a point there.

 

WH just have more knowledge of winning at this level and it shows, the relative quality is not much different.

[Thedelldays]

This is where you show your ignorance.

 

1. Carroll is not utter garbage.

2. Collins is better than what we have as I pointed out in the Summer.

3. Diame is better than what we have as I pointed out in the Summer.

4. Maiga is better than Rodriguez as I pointed out in the Summer.

5. Jaaskalainen is better than what we have as I pointed out in the Summer.

6. Benayoun is better than what we have as I pointed out in the Summer.

 

They have a much better team than we do, they strengthened in the correct areas. It was as if Sam Allardyce had managed in the Premier League before and realise a) how to set up a team to do well in Premier League (b) knows which areas of the team are important to strengthen.

I know all of that....I was being utterly sarcastic as so many claimed what I posted about west ham

[Saint Charlie]

I know all of that....I was being utterly sarcastic as so many claimed what I posted about west ham

 

Pretty pointless thread then. Its hard to work out if you are a saints fan or not at times?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Plus the fact that when you see their lineup they are all players that have played msot of their career in the Prem ie Nolan, Noble, Tomkins, O'Neil, McCartney, Cole, Benayoun, Carroll etc. Seeing as they had lots of those players last year who had extensive Prem experience it also shows how well we adapted to the division to beat them over a whole season.

 

They were used to the quality because the players had all experienced it before, we hadn't. partly due to recruitment and partyl due to the fact the were in the CCC from the Prem and we were in it from L1.

 

Exactly. We made a lack of quality, proven signings in the Summer. Collins, Jaaskelainen, Benayoun, Carroll, Diame were all free or loans. It is ridiculous that we did not look at these players.

[Thedelldays]

Pretty pointless thread then. Its hard to work out if you are a saints fan or not at times?

not a pointless thread..just comparing a team we all agreed that we were better than last season....mong bean

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

I know all of that....I was being utterly sarcastic as so many claimed what I posted about west ham

 

Ok, so it's an 'I told you so' thread then.

[Thedelldays]

Ok, so it's an 'I told you so' thread then.

not really....just having a look at what people thought

 

so many were sure allardyce is terrible...carroll a cart horse and collins was laughed at on here......

 

 

juts curious as to after £30m spent...how come they are 6th and we are 2nd from bottom and getting all excited about a 1-1 draw at home to an utterly poor swansea team...

[The Kraken]

Ok, so it's an 'I told you so' thread then.

 

If it wasn't before then it certainly became one with your "as I said in the summer" rant.

[Saint Charlie]

not a pointless thread..just comparing a team we all agreed that we were better than last season....mong bean

 

We were better than them last season. So far they have been better than us. Their players in total probably have about 50 times more Prem Apps than our squad does which at the moment seems to have been important.

 

Are you doing a comparison thread with Reading too?

[Thedelldays]

We were better than them last season. So far they have been better than us. Their players in total probably have about 50 times more Prem Apps than our squad does which at the moment seems to have been important.

 

Are you doing a comparison thread with Reading too?

what does this extra prem appearances bring to the party...other than about 14 places in the league...what do they do on the pitch..?

as for reading...no, well, unless they spend mental amount of money...then they are where they should be....

[Saint Charlie]

not really....just having a look at what people thought

 

so many were sure allardyce is terrible...carroll a cart horse and collins was laughed at on here......

 

 

juts curious as to after £30m spent...how come they are 6th and we are 2nd from bottom and getting all excited about a 1-1 draw at home to an utterly poor swansea team...

 

Simple question then: if now we could sack Adkins and bring in Allardyce would you?

 

Also Carroll is still on zero leagues goals.

[Saint Charlie]

what does this extra prem appearances bring to the party...other than about 14 places in the league...what do they do on the pitch..?

 

Shows their players have all comfortablly played at this level many times, know what to expect and Sam knew what he would get from them. He knew Nolan was good enough, knew Noble was. We didn't have that luxury, any prem experience we would have needed to sign, and obviously didn't. Not saying it is the sole reason, but it has certainly helped them as it showed they have been good enough at this level. None of our players had that confidence to take into the season.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

If it wasn't before then it certainly became one with your "as I said in the summer" rant.

 

That wasn't a rant, it was just a list...

[Thedelldays]

Shows their players have all comfortablly played at this level many times, know what to expect and Sam knew what he would get from them. He knew Nolan was good enough, knew Noble was. We didn't have that luxury, any prem experience we would have needed to sign, and obviously didn't. Not saying it is the sole reason, but it has certainly helped them as it showed they have been good enough at this level. None of our players had that confidence to take into the season.

tell me about what they do at this level that is different to last year then....what do they do with the ball that is this premier league experience...?

 

I always thought that the bottom half of the prem was not much different to the top of the NPC...or so we were told

[Saint Charlie]

tell me about what they do at this level that is different to last year then....what do they do with the ball that is this premier league experience...?

 

I always thought that the bottom half of the prem was not much different to the top of the NPC...or so we were told

 

 

Have you answered the other question re Adkins/Allardyce? Would you swap them now if you could?

 

Its not what they do with the ball - our team is probably better on the ball than they are. It is the experience of playing at that level, specifically against those better players - they have done it before and most of them were good Prem players the likes of Nolan, Noble, Tomkins. Maybe last year they took some time to get used to the league, Im not sure - but having played lot of Premier League games versus a team who has 10 out of 11 players who have played none certainly has an advantage.

[Window Cleaner]

Any team that had Gazzaniga or Davis in goal,Jos or Yoshisa in CD and Fox at left back would be doing just as badly as we are.

 

A team is only as good as it's weakest links. If we'd had had a real GK on Saturday we won 1-0 exactly the same as West Ham.

 

I don't doubt that the salaries on offer at SFC are vastly inferior to West Ham's as well.

[Saint Charlie]

Any team that had Gazzaniga or Davis in goal,Jos or Yoshisa in CD and Fox at left back would be doing just as badly as we are.

 

A team is only as good as it's weakest links. If we'd had had a real GK on Saturday we won 1-0 exactly the same as West Ham.

 

I don't doubt that the salaries on offer at SFC are vastly inferior to West Ham's as well.

 

 

We enquired about Benayoun on the deadline day but didn't want to match his wages. Nolan on 50k a week last year, Carroll easily on more than Ramirez...fair point I think. Would imagine they are midtable for a wage bill.

[saint1977]

And in the game at Upton Park our midfield was fine, out played theirs first half. Its defensively where the difference between the sides is.

 

The two early goals after HT - both poor defensive errors cost us at least a point there.

 

WH just have more knowledge of winning at this level and it shows, the relative quality is not much different.

 

OK, our defence is worse but barring one moment of Sunday League farce from Gazza and Yoshida - I hope they really got some major grief in the dressing room after for that, they both let the rest of the side down with their laziness - we looked more solid with Cork in CM. Cork screens the back 4 and West Ham are more effective at this so the likes of Collins get less exposed. Hopefully Nigel, Les and Nicola have learned this the tough way and the priority will be to keep clean sheets first and foremost to give us a foothold in games, not this 'Southampton Way' empty corporate guff.

[Fan The Flames]

not a pointless thread..just comparing a team we all agreed that we were better than last season....mong bean

 

I bet that if someone could be bothered to trawl through your posts they would find you saying that we were not as good as West Ham last season and the only reason we finished above them was because they blew it with a series of home draws in march and the bristol city away loss.

 

Imo they were poor against us at home last year and we were lucky away as they had someone sent off.

[Saint Charlie]

I bet that if someone could be bothered to trawl through your posts they would find you saying that we were not as good as West Ham last season and the only reason we finished above them was because they blew it with a series of home draws in march and the bristol city away loss.

 

Imo they were poor against us at home last year and we were lucky away as they had someone sent off.

 

Will also be interesting once he responds to my questions - would he swap Adkins for Allardyce now if he could?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Will also be interesting once he responds to my questions - would he swap Adkins for Allardyce now if he could?

 

I would in a shot, if it meant we stayed up this season. Whatever people may think of him (and I'm not keen) the guy is an above average Manager and knows the Premier League better than Adkins.

[Alain Perrin]

Mo.

 

We had mo at the beginning of the season, they had it at the end. Their relatively kind start to the season enabled them to continue their mo. We had limited mo coming in to this year and this wasn't helped by close but no cigar games like ManU.

 

Plus they'd only been out of the PL for a season and BFS' style is better suited togrinding out results.

 

Would I rather be a Hammer? No.

[david in sweden]

juts curious as to after £30m spent...how come they are 6th and we are 2nd from bottom and getting all excited about a 1-1 draw at home to an utterly poor swansea team...

 

 

Not sure how much Wham have spent (in transfer fees) since January 2012.....but I bet that their wage bill is a darn sight higher than ours.

 

Whether it's transfer fees or sky high salaries ..it's still money.

[OldNick]

Would Allardyce take off his 3 most effective players when he is a goal up against Man u at home? That is the difference IMO

[Saints 6 Derby 4]

Unlike us, they have no obvious weaknesses. Unlike us, they have a strong leader on the pitch.

[S-Clarke]

Just remember, 2 years ago Blackpool sat 7th with 28 points in December.

 

They were relegated.

 

I think they're a decent outfit, but nothing special. They just have nice combinations down the spine. Noble/Nolan and Diame compliment each other perfectly. But when they hit their batch of fixtures against the top sides, and go on a bad run of form, they'll slide down the league.

[ottery st mary]

Mentioned Diame.......forgot to mention Noble and Nolan..

[david in sweden]

Just remember, 2 years ago Blackpool sat 7th with 28 points in December. They were relegated..

 

 

......but I seem to recall that last season Wigan took an age to get upto 20 points, but later came with a strong finish in the Spring and survived.

[PokingFun]

not really....just having a look at what people thought

 

so many were sure allardyce is terrible...carroll a cart horse and collins was laughed at on here......

 

 

juts curious as to after £30m spent...how come they are 6th and we are 2nd from bottom and getting all excited about a 1-1 draw at home to an utterly poor swansea team...

 

I don't see too many people getting "excited" about the Swansea performance but it was more encouraging from a general defensive point of view (other than the obvious individual error). Also, I felt that we played well enough to keep their dangerous players pretty quiet. You say they are utterly poor but this is a team that drew with Chelsea the week before and are firmly entrenched in mid-table so they're not really that poor. We must have played well enough to some degree to make them look poor or is it a case that when we do alright the opposition is poor rather than giving some credit to our team.

 

As far as West Ham is concerned they have had a great start to the season and are disciplined and well organised but they will end up bottom half of the table as they will not sustain their form and at some stage will endure games where they don't score. I doubt we could overhaul them, but at the moment I don't care about that as 17th would be fine from my perspective (given where we are) and it would give an opportunity to build on the 1st season back. If we can finish higher then that would be a great bonus.

 

Its a long season TDD and we are not even 1/3 of the way through yet so drawing comparisons between us and West Ham is not really of much use to us. We might overhaul them but very likely wont as the start we've had will be difficult to turn around. Also, we won't play like them because we have a chairman that wants us to play a different style to a team like West Ham regardless of whether its more effective or not. It really doesn't matter what they do, it will be what we do for the remainder of the season that will count.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

Confidence and luck. We are a far better side than West Ham and I fully expect us to finish above them. They are on the crest of a slump, and I believe we will shortly be headed in the opposite direction. Noble is vastly overrated, and Nolan is the jammiest git in football.

[Thedelldays]

Confidence and luck. We are a far better side than West Ham and I fully expect us to finish above them. They are on the crest of a slump, and I believe we will shortly be headed in the opposite direction. Noble is vastly overrated, and Nolan is the jammiest git in football.

 

Far better side

 

Oh please, stop it

[Saint Charlie]

Far better side

 

Oh please, stop it

 

Agree those comments are silly, WH are better than us at the moment unquestionably.

 

I notice you didn't respond to the question I asked you a couple of times the other day - if we could swap NA for Allardyce now would you?

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Confidence and luck. We are a far better side than West Ham and I fully expect us to finish above them. They are on the crest of a slump, and I believe we will shortly be headed in the opposite direction. Noble is vastly overrated, and Nolan is the jammiest git in football.

 

You are joking aren't you? No wonder people think our fans are arrogant with poor football knowledge.

[Window Cleaner]

The difference?? Might just boil down to Jääskaleinen

 

If we'd had a better keeper fom Day 1 we'd be 6/8 points better off.

[OldNick]

The difference?? Might just boil down to Jääskaleinen

 

If we'd had a better keeper fom Day 1 we'd be 6/8 points better off.

have you seen some of his displays???? KD had a poor start and was rightfully dropped, but to not play him ahead of Gazza where the experience was vital against Swansea was a mistake

[Window Cleaner]

have you seen some of his displays???? KD had a poor start and was rightfully dropped, but to not play him ahead of Gazza where the experience was vital against Swansea was a mistake

 

I saw Jussi against Newcastle, kept them in it.

[Saint Charlie]

have you seen some of his displays???? KD had a poor start and was rightfully dropped, but to not play him ahead of Gazza where the experience was vital against Swansea was a mistake

 

Davis has made more errors than Gazza this season and won't have become better sat on the sidelines. If Gazza didn't play vs Swansea it should have been Boruc. Gazza hasn't done a lot wrong bar that error.

[Saint Garrett]

Jaaskeleinen has been poor for them. I have a lot of mates who support WHU and they can't believe they loaned out Henderson, as Jaaskeleinen is dodgy. I'd agree from his display vs us despite me rating him when he was at Bolton.

[Saint Fan CaM]

It boils down to 3-4 individual players having more experience and to a squad that is highly suited to the style of play dictated by the Manager.

[SaintWill71]

They are just far harder to break down and ultimately beat along with some genuine steel in midfield which we definitely lack. As for Jaaskelainen, on the decline but still capable of winning points on his own like v Newcastle, no doubt his presence gives his back four some confidence, again something our defence isnt currently enjoying in front of Davis, Boruc or Gazz

[Itchen_block4]

They signed PL experience in goal & defence. They came down with people like Carlton Cole. Paid Nolan £50k a week in the champ, signed a £35m paid striker & pay him £70k a week AND more importantly did not **** about with the formation that got them promoted!!!!!!

 

We changed the formation because the old one wasn't up to the job. Setting the formation up is something Pardew should have done when we had a blank canvas.

[Saint Garrett]

TBF, WHU played 433 last season as well as this.