Aftertiming and the parallel universe.

[tisspahars]

Aftertiming - the unattractive and unhelpful act whereby fans and commentators judge a decision on subsequent events known to them, but not the person who had to take the decision. For example, a jockey goes for a gap up the rail - if he gets through he is a genius, if he is hampered he is an idiot. The aftertimer's view is coloured by what actually happened. KP attacks a wide bouncing ball - if he hits it to the boundary "That's why he's so special, hits it on the up, it doesn't matter to this man, what a shot" - whereas if he nicks it behind the very same commentators will tell you "not the ball to attempt that - what was he thinking?"

So yesterday's conceded goal. LOOKED awful, nobody would deny that, but only because three things collided - namely Dyer's anticipation, a poor pass from Gazza, and a poor touch from Yoshida. If Dyer hadn't anticipated the pass, and it had been played and controlled accurately, would ANYONE in the ground have been thinking "what were you doing Gazza?" I'm not so sure. I'm not saying it shouldn't have been hoofed - it probably should have been - but can you tell me it's not possible that in a parallel universe the Saints forum isn't full of people saying "All game we were comfortable playing it out from the back and cruising - for some reason in the last twenty we panic and just hoof it every time, constantly inviting them on, and of course in the end that's why we conceded". Just a thought....

[shurlock]

We've been f**ked playing from the back before.

If the fear-inspiring, all-conquering Kenny Miller can pick our pocket (Jos at their place last season), I guess we can take comfort in it not happening in the prem.

Edited 11 November, 2012 by shurlock

[sadoldgit]

Sadly this was not a one off. KD played a suicide ball out early on in the season and we have made too many unforced mistakes at the back.

[david in sweden]

Aftertiming - the unattractive and unhelpful act whereby fans and commentators judge a decision on subsequent events known to them, but not the person who had to take the decision. For example, a jockey goes for a gap up the rail - if he gets through he is a genius, if he is hampered he is an idiot. ....

 

A very smart observation, but the actual fact that an incorrect / overlooked happening can affect the result can /and/ is corrected in many other sports by means of advanced techinacl equipment.

 

Even the eventual introduction of goal-line cameras may give a more correct version of goaline incidents, it would not have be available for other controversial incidents (like yesterday).

 

I watched the game on a stremaed link , saw the replays and wer should have had (at least) one penalty and they should have had a red card.

 

IF I .and millions of others worldwide .can see this and a fourth official in front of a TV scanner can see whjat really happen why do we continue to allow the referee free rein to make it a circus on the pitch.

[Halo Stickman]

So it’s okay for me to drop a heavy object from my roof without knowing what’s below, so long as it doesn’t happen to hit a passer-by?

 

In my opinion, Gazza’s pass was over-hit and inaccurate, and that is unacceptable whatever the outcome. However, I feel sorry for the lad because it seems fairly obvious that Saints’ keepers are under instructions to play the ball out rather than just hoof it. Also, he wasn’t the only Saints’ player to make a poor pass yesterday; it’s just that his was so obviously costly.

[Lighthouse]

Gazza's pass was dreadful in any universe, regardless of the consequences. Even if he had played it neatly into Yoshida's feet he would have been facing the wrong way, under pressure from Dyer and would in all likelyhood just have ended up hoofing it over his shoulder.

 

Never play a short pass out unless you are sure the guy is ready and in acres of space. Gazza clearly wasn't sure, he should have smashed it into the car park and dealt with (at worst) a throw in on the halfway line.

[aintforever]

Hindsight has nothing to do with what happened yesterday, I shouted at Gazza at the time to hoof it.

 

Gazza ****ed up, Yoshida ****ed up. One too young and inexperienced, one not good enough IMO.

[VectisSaint]

Hindsight has nothing to do with what happened yesterday, I shouted at Gazza at the time to hoof it.

 

Gazza ****ed up, Yoshida ****ed up. One too young and inexperienced, one not good enough IMO.

Should never have been put under pressure by Cork messing around in midfield and eventually passing back when there was no need. When you defence is nervous don't put them under unnecessary pressure, otherwise they might cock it up. Yoshida did very little wrong, Gazza's pass was poor, but it should never have happened. Given that Yoshi also was instrumental in our goal and also saved us from defeat by a brilliantly timed tackle near the end shows that he is actually a very good player when he plays at CB (he is **** when he plays at RB or LB though).

[Eddie Lizzard]

So it’s okay for me to drop a heavy object from my roof without knowing what’s below, so long as it doesn’t happen to hit a passer-by?

 

In my opinion, Gazza’s pass was over-hit and inaccurate, and that is unacceptable whatever the outcome. However, I feel sorry for the lad because it seems fairly obvious that Saints’ keepers are under instructions to play the ball out rather than just hoof it. Also, he wasn’t the only Saints’ player to make a poor pass yesterday; it’s just that his was so obviously costly.

 

Just so you know, it isn't ok, and I don't think you should be taking heavy objects with you on to the roof. In fact just stay off the roof altogether.

[Tony F]

It's certainly worth making the observation that, if the Saints keeper always hoofed the ball upfield, a tactic which gives the ball straight back to the opposition in 70% or so occasions, he would be roundly criticised.

 

Instead, following the Manager's instructions, he will distribute to the back 4 if he can (or thinks h can) safely. Sadly the problem with this approach is that, when it goes wrong, there's a reasonable chance that the opposition will score - and then its called a cock-up.

 

However in the first situation (always hoofing upfield and in most cases giving the ball away) the oppostion will inevitaby have possession of the ball much more and, logically, they stand a better chance of scoring if the majority of kick outs from the goalie gift them the ball.

 

Its called a connundrum, I think.

 

The two possible solutions are to either master the short ball tactic to reduce the cock-up factor to as near zero as possible or somehow provide a long-ball outcome with a reduced "give away factor". I think Saints are trying to do the former. Hope they get there soon!

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

I think that it's all very well doing all this short ball out from the GK, keep possession, play through the park etc, but if you haven't got technically able players, this kind of thing will happen. All very well if you are Spain where all the outfield players are technically competent and able to retain possession of the ball, but not such a good idea if you are at the technical level of some of our players. Same goes for when England play. Whenever they start to "play the ball around" (usually sideways or backwards), it just makes you panic. I always end up shooting something like "boot it for ****'s sake before you get caught in possession"

[Legod Third Coming]

It's a shame for the boy because his distribution the rest of the game was good and his kicking is first class.

 

He's 21 and made a mistake. Key thing is he learns from it.

[Huffton]

When a ball is played back to a keeper he has 3 options.

Launch it long

If under pressure put it out of play as far down the pitch as possible

Not under pressure play a good pass out to a defender and retain possesion. By good I mean on the floor, not bouncing two feet in front of him while he's being closed down by the oppositions quickest/trickiest player.

All game Gazza had cleared back passes long, some we lost some we won, but the immediate danger was cleared. Why oh why he chose to chip that ball out to Maya only he knows. You can argue all day whether or not the ball should have gone back to him in the first place but the fact is it did and he made a poor poor decision.

[Saint_clark]

So it’s okay for me to drop a heavy object from my roof without knowing what’s below, so long as it doesn’t happen to hit a passer-by?

 

In my opinion, Gazza’s pass was over-hit and inaccurate, and that is unacceptable whatever the outcome. However, I feel sorry for the lad because it seems fairly obvious that Saints’ keepers are under instructions to play the ball out rather than just hoof it. Also, he wasn’t the only Saints’ player to make a poor pass yesterday; it’s just that his was so obviously costly.

 

Wrong, he cleared it long on a number of occasions and not even under any great pressure.

He made an individual choice to try and play it back to Yoshida, due to his inexperience and not knowing that Dyer had the pace to close the gap.

Good thing is, he'll learn from this and be better for it.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

When a ball is played back to a keeper he has 3 options.

Launch it long

If under pressure put it out of play as far down the pitch as possible

Not under pressure play a good pass out to a defender and retain possesion. By good I mean on the floor, not bouncing two feet in front of him while he's being closed down by the oppositions quickest/trickiest player.

All game Gazza had cleared back passes long, some we lost some we won, but the immediate danger was cleared. Why oh why he chose to chip that ball out to Maya only he knows. You can argue all day whether or not the ball should have gone back to him in the first place but the fact is it did and he made a poor poor decision.

You forgot the fourth option: the Robert Green technique. Much more difficult than the other 3 and probably can only be executed by an England standard keeper.

[Bearsy]

Hindsight has nothing to do with what happened yesterday, I shouted at Gazza at the time to hoof it

 

On the highlights you could hear someone in the crowd shouting "Noooo!"

 

Was probably you!

[GAS]

Brilliant that we are instructed and trying to play the ball from the back. But the goal was littered with our mistakes. These will happen whether you are young or old. Gazza is probably the best goal keeper kicker/distributor we have had for years. There comes a time in a game when he needs to know how to play the ball. Hopefully, against QPR he will know when and when not to play it short.