Hamilton Saint Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 Yep, its more or less unanimous. You're a c*nt. No, it's not "more or less unanimous" that you can call someone a c*nt just because they hold to a different political opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 No, it's not "more or less unanimous" that you can call someone a c*nt just because they hold to a different political opinion. and from someone who get's so precious when he gets a few cross words in his own direction, oh the irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 and from someone who get's so precious when he gets a few cross words in his own direction, oh the irony. Hey, explain the irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 No-one should get called a c*nt for exercising the freedoms that so many good people died to protect. Foolish, naive, insensitive? Yes, but certainly not a c*nt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 No-one should get called a c*nt for exercising the freedoms that so many good people died to protect. Foolish, naive, insensitive? Yes, but certainly not a c*nt. I disagree. If people want to earn a living in this country and put themselves in the public eye, then they should, respect our customs and history. Thyedont repesent themselves, they reprsent the city they play for. People have pointed out that he has a freedom to choose to wear a poppy or not. If brave men hadn't died he wouldn't have this right and he wouldn't have the lifestyle he enjoys now. If he's got that high a moral view of it he can always f*ck off and earn his living elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 (edited) I disagree. If people want to earn a living in this country and put themselves in the public eye, then they should, respect our customs and history. Thyedont repesent themselves, they reprsent the city they play for. People have pointed out that he has a freedom to choose to wear a poppy or not. If brave men hadn't died he wouldn't have this right and he wouldn't have the lifestyle he enjoys now. If he's got that high a moral view of it he can always f*ck off and earn his living elsewhere. By resorting to that mentality you are showing traits shared by the tyrants those men died to protect us from. I believe they are wrong to shun the poppy, because people died to allow them to have the freedom to make such decisions. It would however be just as much of an insult to the people who died to be as tyrannical as their foes. Edited 11 November, 2012 by Colinjb Maybe a little harsh with my original wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 (edited) By resorting to that mentality you are no better then the tyrants those men died to protect us from. I believe they are wrong to shun the poppy, because people died to allow them to have the freedom to make such decisions. It would however be just as much of an insult to the people who died to be as tyrannical as their foes. Why is it? Is it really that big an ask to respect the lives of people that died to enjoy the freedom that you do now? If this Irish fella has got such an issue with it then surely he wouldnt want to work or pay tax to a country he is so opposed to. Edited 11 November, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 Why is it? Is it really that big an ask to respect the lives of people that died to enjoy the freedom that you do now? When Rickie Lambert and Adam Lallana take to the pitch do they represent Themselves or Southampton? Yoshida could have Refused to wear ashirt with a poppy on and claimed British people were a reason why some of his nationality died, he didn't did he. No, he didn't. But no insults were exchanged by those not wearing the shirts, be them pacifists, objectors based on prior british military action in Ireland, whatever. They simply exercised their right of free speech and opinion. When you criticise that, you undermine your own way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 No, he didn't. But no insults were exchanged by those not wearing the shirts, be them pacifists, objectors based on prior british military action in Ireland, whatever. They simply exercised their right of free speech and opinion. When you criticise that, you undermine your own way of life. Maybe I'm grateful for what I've got and appreciate those who made it possible? As I said above,if the Irish lad has such a moral issue with it, maybe he should earn his living and pay tax in another country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 Maybe I'm grateful for what I've got and appreciate those who made it possible? Then it comes down to politics..... the sacrifices so many made so we could have the choice to say no to something like this..... There will always be a spread of opinion and extremist views in humanity. I am so grateful we live in a society that viewpoints can be expressed, even if I disagree with them it is a blessing that these men fought to preserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 Then it comes down to politics..... the sacrifices so many made so we could have the choice to say no to something like this..... There will always be a spread of opinion and extremist views in humanity. I am so grateful we live in a society that viewpoints can be expressed, even if I disagree with them it is a blessing that these men fought to preserve it. Where do you stand on his moral crusade? He's happy to earn an undoubtably good living in this country, but not willing to respect those who died to make it possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 Where do you stand on his moral crusade? He's happy to earn an undoubtably good living in this country, but not willing to respect those who died to make it possible. It annoyed me that he didn't wear a poppy shirt. Talking to my elderly grandfather last night (92 years young, a veteran of North Africa and Italy) and seeing the pain behind his eyes as we asked him about the war really brings home the sacrifices that generation made. This guy McLean didn't want to participate though, regardless of how distasteful I find it that is his right. If his opinion was the majority I would be more worried, instead the reaction he will get from others is his punishment. Karma is a *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 Where do you stand on his moral crusade? He's happy to earn an undoubtably good living in this country, but not willing to respect those who died to make it possible. To be fair we'd still be playing football if the German's had won. I don't agree with his point of view but respect his right to choose. If he sees the poppy as a symbol of the British army you can understand his thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 Where do you stand on his moral crusade? He's happy to earn an undoubtably good living in this country, but not willing to respect those who died to make it possible. Would you agree that Bloody Sunday may not have been the British forces finest hour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 It annoyed me that he didn't wear a poppy shirt. Talking to my elderly grandfather last night (92 years young, a veteran of North Africa and Italy) and seeing the pain behind his eyes as we asked him about the war really brings home the sacrifices that generation made. This guy McLean didn't want to participate though, regardless of how distasteful I find it that is his right. If his opinion was the majority I would be more worried, instead the reaction he will get from others is his punishment. Karma is a *****. You're right of course,it is his right. our fathers fathers and their fathers made this possible. You have to question how much it means to him though, like a lot of people that have come into this country, happy to take, not so happy to give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 (edited) Would you agree that Bloody Sunday may not have been the British forces finest hour? It might not have been. Before the easter uprising plenty of catholics fought with the British. Plenty of catholics and Irish have died on foreign soil fighting for us. And I'm sure plenty of people from Sunderland have died or fought for their country. Does McClean represent them or himself? Edited 12 November, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 It might not have been. But in the easter uprising plenty of catholics fought with the British. Plenty of catholics and Irish have died on foreign soil fighting for us. And I'm sure plenty of people from Sunderland have died or fought for their country. Does McClean represent them or himself? I think he represents a footballer who didn't want to wear the symbol of a poppy. I am presuming it is because he was born in Derry, but that doesn't really matter. In answer to your question, he represents himself. I for one am very glad he can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 You're right of course,it is his right. our fathers fathers and their fathers made this possible. You have to question how much it means to him though, like a lot of people that have come into this country, happy to take, not so happy to give. On a mercenary level, as a footballer he will be paying a lot of tax, he is contributing, therefore he can speak his mind with a relatively clear conscience in that way. But yes, there are so many that come over and abuse the freedoms we have, but a lot of people born and bred within our own borders are doing the same. It's an undesirable part of human nature, part of it is the tendency to play the system to their own benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 I think he represents a footballer who didn't want to wear the symbol of a poppy. I am presuming it is because he was born in Derry, but that doesn't really matter. In answer to your question, he represents himself. I for one am very glad he can. So when Lambert, Lallana and so on take the field they don't represent SFC they represent themselves? Do you believe that when ever any unsavoury reports are in the media about SFC players it doesnt reflect badly on the club, or only on the player in question? Also what about this players moral view of not respecting the people who made it possible to enjoy the lifestyle does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 Perhaps the police will arrest McClean for his refusal to wear the poppy? http://www.thisiskent.co.uk/Aylesham-man-arrested-burning-poppy-picture/story-17293619-detail/story.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 On a mercenary level, as a footballer he will be paying a lot of tax, he is contributing, therefore he can speak his mind with a relatively clear conscience in that way. But yes, there are so many that come over and abuse the freedoms we have, but a lot of people born and bred within our own borders are doing the same. It's an undesirable part of human nature, part of it is the tendency to play the system to their own benefit. You've not addressed my point Colin. If he has that much of a problem with respecting the people who made his lifestyle possible, perhaps his morality will stop him earning his living in the same country? I don't doubt he's a moral chap, hes made that clear, so Prehaps he'll look to earn his living elsewhere. Thats what I'd do if I had no respect for the country I worked in. After making such a statement we wouldn't want there to be any double standards would we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 So when Lambert, Lallana and so on take the field they don't represent SFC they represent themselves? Do you believe that when ever any unsavoury reports are in the media about SFC players it doesnt reflect badly on the club, or only on the player in question? Also what about this players moral view of not respecting the people who made it possible to enjoy the lifestyle does? Were you one of the many lauding Dyer for 'stealing from the skates' yesterday? Do you really think Ramirez, Gazzaniga, Yoshida etc give a **** about Southampton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 Were you one of the many lauding Dyer for 'stealing from the skates' yesterday? Do you really think Ramirez, Gazzaniga, Yoshida etc give a **** about Southampton? Err no, I think you'll find I found that chant emabrassing. Whats your point on that? So are you saying we've brought in players for big money that don't care about the club? Bit of a worry.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 You've not addressed my point Colin. If he has that much of a problem with respecting the people who made his lifestyle possible, perhaps his morality will stop him earning his living in the same country? I don't doubt he's a moral chap, hes made that clear, so Prehaps he'll look to earn his living elsewhere. Thats what I'd do if I had no respect for the country I worked in. You did say about people abusing the system here, he isn't in that way, if anything he is helping to pay for it. Like any tax payer he has a right to speak his mind within lawful boundaries. 'Tasteful' and 'respectful' boundaries are different matters here. He had every right to do what he did, that is the fundamental point. Regardless of the personal taste and opinion of any of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 You did say about people abusing the system here, he isn't in that way, if anything he is helping to pay for it. Like any tax payer he has a right to speak his mind within lawful boundaries. 'Tasteful' and 'respectful' boundaries are different matters here. He had every right to do what he did, that is the fundamental point. Regardless of the personal taste and opinion of any of us. I feel we've been through this before Colin. Yes, he has a right not to wear it, we agree on that. But if he's that opposed and has that much of a Moral problem with the country that he earns his living in, then maybe he should also be questioning if he is working in the right country that reflects his moral stand point? I know I would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 (edited) I feel we've been through this before Colin. Yes, he has a right not to wear it, we agree on that. But if he's that opposed and has that much of a Moral problem with the country that he earns his living in, then maybe he should also be questioning if he is working in the right country that reflects his moral stand point? I know I would be. This implies a problem with the whole country, not just one facet. He disagrees with our military standpoint but has respect for our other laws, tax requirements, etiquette, sporting identity and history and various other ways in which we are culturally similar to his home. Forgive the crude metaphor, but it's like being a in a relationship with a girl who has so many good points and one area of possible contention. He let it fly but made his opinion felt and then moved on after seeing the greater perspective. She on the other hand will remember this until the end of time..... Edited 11 November, 2012 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 This implies a problem with the whole country, not just one facet. He disagrees with our military standpoint but has respect for our other laws, tax requirements, etiquette, sporting identity and history and various other ways in which we are culturally similar to his home. Forgive the crude metaphor, but it's like being a in a relationship with a girl who has so many good points and one area of possible contention. He let it fly but made his opinion felt and then moved on after seeing the greater perspective. So let's say you were offered and accepted a job in Germany, everything was perfect apart from you were encouraged, not forced, but encouraged, to Sieg heil, every morning. Would you as a moral person, be happy to continue to take a wage from this company, or start to question if you were right to be there, regardless of if you agreed with everything else the company stood for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 So let's say you were offered and accepted a job in Germany, everything was perfect apart from you were encouraged, not forced, but encouraged, to Sieg heil, every morning. Would you as a moral person, be happy to continue to take a wage from this company, or start to question if you were right to be there, regardless of if you agreed with everything else the company stood for? And there your argument falls apart. If that came in there would be far more to worry about then just singing that every morning. Our country is one based on freedom. If you sing Seig Heil every morning it won't be..... or at least wouldn't be for long and you would get the hell out... We have rememberence sunday every 52 weeks. You don't get shot if you don't observe it; thank heavens for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 Hey, explain the irony. I was agreeing with you and referring to Alpine Saint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 This implies a problem with the whole country, not just one facet. He disagrees with our military standpoint but has respect for our other laws, tax requirements, etiquette, sporting identity and history and various other ways in which we are culturally similar to his home. Forgive the crude metaphor, but it's like being a in a relationship with a girl who has so many good points and one area of possible contention. He let it fly but made his opinion felt and then moved on after seeing the greater perspective. She on the other hand will remember this until the end of time..... The "just one facet" is a rather important one! Remembering the 1m+ dead and why they died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 And there your argument falls apart. If that came in there would be far more to worry about then just sing that every morning. Our country is one based on freedom. If you sing Seig Heil every morning it won't be..... or at least wouldn't be for long and you would get the hell out... It doesn't because You're not understanding Colin. Morally both of us would never ever accept that doing this is right, so we wouldn't work for or accept a wage from a company that suggested we do this. so if this Sunderland player, McClean is morally opposed to wearing a poppy, surely his morality would exempt him from collecting a wage in a country and from an organisation that encourages to do something he is opposed to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 The "just one facet" is a rather important one! Remembering the 1m+ dead and why they died. Oh, indeed. My personal feelings are more then clear earlier though. But....remove the political freedom and you become as bad as the enemy those guys died to protect us from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 It doesn't because You're not understanding Colin. Morally both of us would never ever accept that doing this is right, so we wouldn't work for or accept a wage from a company that suggested we do this. so if this Sunderland player, McClean is morally opposed to wearing a poppy, surely his morality would exempt him from collecting a wage that encourages to do something he is opposed to? Sorry Turkish, life exists in shades of grey. For me, anyway. Thank heavens we live in a society where we can debate this though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 Sorry Turkish, life exists in shades of grey. For me, anyway. Thank heavens we live in a society where we can debate this though. I don't see a grey area colin, I'm surprised you do. If I worked in a country and for an organisation That held beliefs that were against mine I'd look elsewhere for employment. That's the thing I find most amusing about people these days, the have morals and ethics when it suis them, but when it doesn't they don't. So are you saying you'd take a wage from a company that encouraged a Sieg heil every mornings even though you agreed with everything else they stood for or would you not work there because morally it would be wrong for you to work for a company like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 I don't see a grey area colin, I'm surprised you do. If I worked in a country and for an organisation That held beliefs that were against mine I'd look elsewhere for employment. That's the thing I find most amusing about people these days, the have morals and ethics when it suis them, but when it doesn't they don't. If that was truly the case I would emigrate every time the party I didn't vote for came into power. Is it possible to vote for a coalition on the ballot form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 Where do you stand on his moral crusade? He's happy to earn an undoubtably good living in this country, but not willing to respect those who died to make it possible. I think the German economy is doing pretty well these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 If that was truly the case I would emigrate every time the party I didn't vote for came into power. Is it possible to vote for a coalition on the ballot form? Of course it is, people died to ensure that option was available, I'm surprised you fail to appreciate that!!! So I'll ask again, would you work for a company, in a country where it opposed to what you believed in? Or would you look elsewhere for employment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 I think the German economy is doing pretty well these days. The Irish one isn't. Maybe that's why mcleans morality only goes as far as the amount of 0's in his wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 11 November, 2012 Share Posted 11 November, 2012 Funny how we are all encouraged to learn German these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 12 November, 2012 Share Posted 12 November, 2012 (edited) Of course it is, people died to ensure that option was available, I'm surprised you fail to appreciate that!!! So I'll ask again, would you work for a company, in a country where it opposed to what you believed in? Or would you look elsewhere for employment? Do you agree with 100% of all political policy in this country at the moment? If you say yes you are lying.... because you have shown an inclination for poppies to be mandatory, or at least beyond reproach, but they are not. So what are you doing here? Edited 12 November, 2012 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 12 November, 2012 Share Posted 12 November, 2012 Some astonishing views and comments here, with a big dollop of missed irony on the whole freedom issue. The only thing that matters is surely the respect for those who gave up their lives for these freedoms, not whether you wear a symbol - I suspect there are plenty who simply chuck the money in the pot, wear the poppy, without giving it a moments thought about what it represents... but as long as they conform , who cares right Turks? Some might argue that seveal of the response on here vere dangerously close to the the types of repression that those we remember died defending us against... as we come full circle on the irony issue. There is also the issue that the appeal is now for all personnel killed in conflict, including the recent and current situations - so its about more than the defending of freedom. It is shame that he was not able to differentiate between his politics and remembering those who have fallen, but thats the problem with symbolism if its seen to represent more than what it was originally intended for - which it now does. Personnally, I prefer living in a country that allows personal choice, and the freedom that goes with it wthout the risk of personal attack or vindictive reprisals - yet as we see by the comments on here, some are struggling with the whole concept of freedom, and to me that is a bigger insult to those who died defending it, than someone not wearing a poppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 12 November, 2012 Share Posted 12 November, 2012 colin....how come you would be appalled if redknapp came in and replaced an "honourable man" like adkins.. are you saying by mentioning honourable, that redknapp isnt..? surely, it matters not what arry is like as his views are his own and he would in no way, represent you or the club but himself.. same if Di Canio came...surely his personal beliefs would have zero bearing on your opinions of him.. what would you feel if a player was found to be a staunch supporter of the BNP...would you be happy with that..? you have to be as you state that they represent themselves and not the club.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 12 November, 2012 Share Posted 12 November, 2012 colin....how come you would be appalled if redknapp came in and replaced an "honourable man" like adkins.. are you saying by mentioning honourable, that redknapp isnt..? surely, it matters not what arry is like as his views are his own and he would in no way, represent you or the club but himself.. same if Di Canio came...surely his personal beliefs would have zero bearing on your opinions of him.. what would you feel if a player was found to be a staunch supporter of the BNP...would you be happy with that..? you have to be as you state that they represent themselves and not the club.. Can see what you are suggesting, but ultimately again it comes down to your own perespectives - does a BNP player represent the club? Probably and I would struggle to support siad individual and it may impact o my support for the club, but that does NOT detract form that players right to hold those views no matter how distateful we may find them - and surely that is the point - the right to chose, even if we feel some make the wrong choices (and many do), denying those freedoms is the biggest insult to those who died fighting for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 November, 2012 Share Posted 12 November, 2012 (edited) Do you agree with 100% of all political policy in this country at the moment? If you say yes you are lying.... because you have shown an inclination for poppies to be mandatory, or at least beyond reproach, but they are not. So what are you doing here? Agains, you're failing to understand, i didn't say they should be mandatory. Poppies are worn to represent the dead of that country, if McClean feels he cannot betray his own morals and wear one, as his is choice, then surely he also shouldnt betray his own morals and earn his money in the same country, it's as simple as that is it not? Edited 12 November, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 November, 2012 Share Posted 12 November, 2012 Can see what you are suggesting' date=' but ultimately again it comes down to your own perespectives - does a BNP player represent the club? Probably and I would struggle to support siad individual and it may impact o my support for the club, but that does NOT detract form that players right to hold those views no matter how distateful we may find them - and surely that is the point - the right to chose, even if we feel some make the wrong choices (and many do), denying those freedoms is the biggest insult to those who died fighting for it.[/quote'] Who is denying them freedom? As usual so quick to attack and so slow to understand. The point is that if he has such a moral consience that it wont let him respect the dead of the country he earns his living in that enabled him the right for the lifestyle he enjoys, then why doesn't he have a moral consience that stops him working and earning a living in that same country? Like you said, it's only a poppy, who gives a toss? A lot of people throw their money into the pot and dont think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO5 4BW Posted 12 November, 2012 Share Posted 12 November, 2012 I think all the talk here about respect for the dead of two world wars is irrelevant in McClean's case. He grew up, or at least his parents would have grown up, in a place where the British Army weren't seen as heroic liberators of the world from fascism but as an occupying force. I don't necessarily think his point is anything to do with those who died in the world wars, it's much more recent than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 12 November, 2012 Share Posted 12 November, 2012 Who is denying them freedom? As usual so quick to attack and so slow to understand. The point is that if he has such a moral consience that it wont let him respect the dead of the country he earns his living in that enabled him the right for the lifestyle he enjoys, then why doesn't he have a moral consience that stops him working and earning a living in that same country? Like you said, it's only a poppy, who gives a toss? A lot of people throw their money into the pot and dont think about. Maybe he doesn't have a problem with British people or Britain. Just doesn't want to honour it's military who murdered people on his estate. Also he probably has friends and family who still live in the area, maybe wearing the poppy might cause issues for them. Either way it's a free world and it's not for you or I to judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 12 November, 2012 Share Posted 12 November, 2012 Who is denying them freedom? As usual so quick to attack and so slow to understand. The point is that if he has such a moral consience that it wont let him respect the dead of the country he earns his living in that enabled him the right for the lifestyle he enjoys, then why doesn't he have a moral consience that stops him working and earning a living in that same country? Like you said, it's only a poppy, who gives a toss? A lot of people throw their money into the pot and dont think about. You have absolutely no idea whether he respects the dead or not that fought for his freedom, all we have is someone who has made a choice not to waer a poopy because of what else that would represent within his own political spectrum....as usual you are quick to condem, slow to understand anything that does not fit into your nice littel Black and white world or with which you just plain disagree... from an advocator of freedom. We get the whole WUM mentality of the majority of the sheidt you post, but that does not detract from the fact that you constantly contradict yourself, have zero ability to recognise irony, and dont seem to acknowledge the tolerance you say you are so proud that our fallen fought for, is fundemental to his choice... not very big, not very clever...in fact pretty ignorant all round. Should all those ex pat brits come home from say Dubai, or Saudi, because I bet most dont support most of the local customs, difference is, they have no choice under some of those regimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 12 November, 2012 Share Posted 12 November, 2012 (edited) You have absolutely no idea whether he respects the dead or not that fought for his freedom, all we have is someone who has made a choice not to waer a poopy because of what else that would represent within his own political spectrum....as usual you are quick to condem, slow to understand anything that does not fit into your nice littel Black and white world or with which you just plain disagree... from an advocator of freedom. We get the whole WUM mentality of the majority of the sheidt you post, but that does not detract from the fact that you constantly contradict yourself, have zero ability to recognise irony, and dont seem to acknowledge the tolerance you say you are so proud that our fallen fought for, is fundemental to his choice... not very big, not very clever...in fact pretty ignorant all round. Should all those ex pat brits come home from say Dubai, or Saudi, because I bet most dont support most of the local customs, difference is, they have no choice under some of those regimes... Another thread you've turned it into a personal attack on me. Massive tsk. Edited 12 November, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 November, 2012 Share Posted 12 November, 2012 LOL at those jumping on me for calling Manuel the same name as others like VFTT had done previously, but with utter silence in their direction. I am fed up with the double standards of certain Irish people. I remember being in the common room of my halls of residence in Manchester back in 1987, listening to a group of Irish Republican students From Ulster bad-mouthing everything and anything about Britain. Yet they chose to study in Manchester. Utter hypocrisy, just like Mr. McClean. Yes, our dead servicemen dies to protect freedom of speech, but the way sections of society have taken their sacrifice for granted and abused it is disgraceful. Anyway, from what was mentioned on here, it seems his own clubs fans have taken a pretty dim view of this, I am happy for them to deal with it and express their "approval" for the player next time he plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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