Thedelldays Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 That's a very good figure, of course. But does not take in account wages; nor the fact that the £3M figure was offset by the sale of an asset that was at the club before the manager arrived. Of course that is offset. But it shows that money (or most of it) was generated from the club itself... As every youth academy is for teams outside of the prem A net spend of £3m to get to the premier league.. Despite claims of credit cards and free money... Is pretty fuking good. When you look at some of the spending for teams to never make the prem.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Out of interest, Frank. Do you choose to disbelieve all of these "rumours" until you are in plain sight of cold hard facts? Or are you truly open minded and at all concerned about the allegations? I would love to hear nothing but sweetness and light stroies comming from contented happy folk that work for him - seriously it would be great. Do I believe these rumours? Yes I fully believe there are some seriously hacked off folk who used to work for the club - what I am simply saying is that without knowing the details of their grievence, or why they are now ex employees of teh club, I cant comment on whether this is normal or abnormal and as a result it would be erong to assume one party or the other is at fault... I will also nevr get to know the facts, so if push comes to shove, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to the club, because they are not in a position to comment on individual cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Lowe inherited a premier league team. That is a fact. Granted, a rubbish one but it was certainly higher than bottom with -10 in division 3.. Like I said, be interesting to know the net spend on the team... Discounting tv money etc since the take over It was reported Adkins net spend before this season was £3m... Pretty low really considering the progress made. There are absolutely no one, apart from MLT I would swap from 1997 to 2005. Beattie in his pomp, or crouch that season for Micky evens?? Hmm My point is about Wonga surviving in the big league, which Lowe did do and Wonga is yet to do. We have no idea how Lowe would do in L1 with loads of free money, so not relevent. Lets see how Wonga does in the big league. He's got six seasons of mainly solid finishes to beat. Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 I would love to hear nothing but sweetness and light stroies comming from contented happy folk that work for him - seriously it would be great. Do I believe these rumours? Yes I fully believe there are some seriously hacked off folk who used to work for the club - what I am simply saying is that without knowing the details of their grievence' date=' or why they are now ex employees of teh club, I cant comment on whether this is normal or abnormal and as a result it would be erong to assume one party or the other is at fault... I will also nevr get to know the facts, so if push comes to shove, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to the club, because they are not in a position to comment on individual cases.[/quote'] There you go again FC....pragmatism on an internet football forum. #it'llnevercatchon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Of course that is offset. But it shows that money (or most of it) was generated from the club itself... As every youth academy is for teams outside of the prem A net spend of £3m to get to the premier league.. Despite claims of credit cards and free money... Is pretty fuking good. When you look at some of the spending for teams to never make the prem.... Yep, as I said it was very good. Leicester threw money at the situation and got nowhere. As I said though; it doesn't reference wages at all. And we all know the huge losses incurred by the club in our first couple of years of trading since takeover, so that £3M figure really doesn't tell the full story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 My point is about Wonga surviving in the big league, which Lowe did do and Wonga is yet to do. We have no idea how Lowe would do in L1 with loads of free money, so not relevent. Lets see how Wonga does in the big league. He's got six seasons of mainly solid finishes to beat. Sent from my GT-I9100P using Tapatalk 2 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 And lets face it, spending 15 million to get out of League 1 and then the NPC isn't really very economic. Especially when you already had the best striker,2 of the best midfielders and (in theory only) the best goalkeeper.I think the only regular player who came through our youth system during those 2 seasons was AOC and we sold him to the Arse after a few of months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Strictly speaking it was an immediately negative move. We had no replacement lined up and instantly lost the next few games until we did identify a new manager and appoint him. And it came off the back of a 4-0 away victory; hardly getting shot of an underperforming manager. History will show that the end game proved successful. It will also show that same very manager is performing very successfully in this division, whereas his replacement (as yet) isn't. We had a poor preseason followed by an indifferent start -yes we beat a relegated side but also lost to one. Like the previous season, we were boom-bust under Pards -and I had my doubts that he was the manager to take us up. Nick Nack acted quickly and imaginatively -it would have been very easy to go down another route and go for one of the usual suspects (as the mongboard implored at the time). There was some short-term fallout as we sniffed around for a new manager -perhaps why Nick Nack has refrained (momentarily) from pulling the trigger this time around (evidence of learning???) but that's a quaint footnote on the page of two , back-to-back promotions. Adkins is enjoying a lot of goodwill -understandably so- but truth is that this is as much a vindication of Nick Nack making the right decision at the right time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Yep, as I said it was very good. Leicester threw money at the situation and got nowhere. As I said though; it doesn't reference wages at all. And we all know the huge losses incurred by the club in our first couple of years of trading since takeover, so that £3M figure really doesn't tell the full story. Well, no one ever really reference wages...I was talking a out the spend on the team and the claims that NC has all this free money. Which appears to be not true Look he ain't perfect it seems. Made a few fuk ups. But he is way up there when you look around the leagues... Some of the names and the hysteria he creates is way OTT and quite funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 I would love to hear nothing but sweetness and light stroies comming from contented happy folk that work for him - seriously it would be great. Do I believe these rumours? Yes I fully believe there are some seriously hacked off folk who used to work for the club - what I am simply saying is that without knowing the details of their grievence' date=' or why they are now ex employees of teh club, I cant comment on whether this is normal or abnormal and as a result it would be erong to assume one party or the other is at fault... I will also nevr get to know the facts, so if push comes to shove, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to the club, because they are not in a position to comment on individual cases.[/quote'] Fair enough. Others, I guess, may take a view that there's no smoke without fire and with so many similar rumours it all adds up to the benefit of the doubt not really being applicable; it becomes more likely that the "rumours" are largely true than not (especially when backed up by individual trusted sources). In any case; with this ownership structure there's not a great deal we as customers can do to influence that, aside from grumbling on a message board and ultimately attracting attention for local and national media to pick up on. As is the case here. So I guess that's the answer to those saying "well what can we do about it anyway?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 I'm with Frank, I want to hear full details of the stories bout NC being a nobber! Not so much so I can give benefit of the doubt, I just reckon they'll be hilarious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Well, no one ever really reference wages...I was talking a out the spend on the team and the claims that NC has all this free money. Which appears to be not true Look he ain't perfect it seems. Made a few fuk ups. But he is way up there when you look around the leagues... Some of the names and the hysteria he creates is way OTT and quite funny It quite clearly is true. We overspent income on wages; hence why a huge amount of debt was turned into equity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 (edited) Really? Don't remember too many people agreeing ar the time. If true, that's even more impressive - Nick Nack went against the grain and Nick Nack was proved right. Edited 9 November, 2012 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Well, no one ever really reference wages They should do, considering they invariably cost football clubs more per season than any transfer spending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Yep, as I said it was very good. Leicester threw money at the situation and got nowhere. As I said though; it doesn't reference wages at all. And we all know the huge losses incurred by the club in our first couple of years of trading since takeover, so that £3M figure really doesn't tell the full story. Seriously Kracken I do get what you are trying to say and you are right - the jury is still out on whether NC can and will be able to demonstrate a prudent financial policy that can achieve the ideal of stabilty and steady progress within a self sustaining model... fair enough. But you yourself state money does not guarrantee success - yet its not ridculous to assume that the important part to all this is achieving success with the BUDGET that has been set and agreed - I would hazzard a guess that our BUDGET was set in part by the 'provision' made by Markus that he hinted at before his death - which was why to all intents and purposes we were running within an agreed bdget that INCLUDED the revenue from this director loan both in L1 and the CCC. Assuming that pot is now empty, the trick will be to ensure we can live within our current means - and in football that does include spreading the investment in infrastructure and players over a number of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 It quite clearly is true. We overspent income on wages; hence why a huge amount of debt was turned into equity. Fair enough Just think he has been and is very good for saints and one or two frothing at the mouth about him seems sad Until such ex employee comes out and says exactly why he is so bad that has any relevance to the team. Then it's all rumour and opinion. But many have made up their mind If there are so many disgruntled ex employees, lets hear it. What have they got to lose??? Until then, just rumour without much substance or detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 We had a poor preseason followed by an indifferent start -yes we beat a relegated side but also lost to one. Like the previous season, we were boom-bust under Pards -and I had my doubts that he was the manager to take us up. Nick Nack acted quickly and imaginatively -it would have been very easy to go down another route and go for one of the usual suspects (as the mongboard implored at the time). There was some short-term fallout as we sniffed around for a new manager -perhaps why Nick Nack has refrained (momentarily) from pulling the trigger this time around (evidence of learning???) but that's a quaint footnote on the page of two , back-to-back promotions. Adkins is enjoying a lot of goodwill -understandably so- but truth is that this is as much a vindication of Nick Nack making the right decision at the right time. One thing I will say is that the Adkins appointment was inspired. He wasn't the popular choice at the time (never have I seen the term underwhelmed so often used) but he was quite clearly the right choice. I think he's brilliant, both as a manager and a man. I also think Pardew's appointment was equally instrumental in reversing our fortunes and giving us a solid base to build upon. Managerial appointments are certainly not something you can use to criticise Nik Nak for; IMO he got both spot on. Interesting to see what his next move will be (though hopefully Nige will take that decision out of his hands by overseeing a revival in fortunes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 They should do, considering they invariably cost football clubs more per season than any transfer spending. I agree. Just remember transfer deadline day when they had saints lined up as 5th biggest spenders (or whatever) in England Had zero mention of anyone's agents fee, signing on fees and wages commitments. Which I don't agree with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Seriously Kracken I do get what you are trying to say and you are right - the jury is still out on whether NC can and will be able to demonstrate a prudent financial policy that can achieve the ideal of stabilty and steady progress within a self sustaining model... fair enough. But you yourself state money does not guarrantee success - yet its not ridculous to assume that the important part to all this is achieving success with the BUDGET that has been set and agreed - I would hazzard a guess that our BUDGET was set in part by the 'provision' made by Markus that he hinted at before his death - which was why to all intents and purposes we were running within an agreed bdget that INCLUDED the revenue from this director loan both in L1 and the CCC. Assuming that pot is now empty, the trick will be to ensure we can live within our current means - and in football that does include spreading the investment in infrastructure and players over a number of years. Perhaps best I outline my stance. I believe Cortese was given a budget to get Saints back to the Premier League; and that budget would be written off. He succeeded in that; questions over whether we got value for money are IMO irrelevant; we spent a lot of money, incurred a lot of debt, but got the desired job done. The next step is running the football club on an even keel. That has always been the stated aim; for the club to wash its own face, and not to be reliant upon debt or loans. We're not off to a good start on that one. I think the family funding has now been switched off so its hugely important we stabilise the club and asap stop being a massively loss-making company. I'm yet to see any signs of that heppening, and will continue to be cencerned until I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 a lot of debt, but got the desired job done. The next step is running the football club on an even keel. That has always been the stated aim; for the club to wash its own face, and not to be reliant upon debt or loans. We're not off to a good start on that one. I think much of that will depend on the success of the 'academy' and developing players and eventually selling them. To be profitable on operational aspects alone and not inclusive of proceeds from player sales would, I imagine, be a dream for most teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 One thing I will say is that the Adkins appointment was inspired. He wasn't the popular choice at the time (never have I seen the term underwhelmed so often used) but he was quite clearly the right choice. I think he's brilliant, both as a manager and a man. I also think Pardew's appointment was equally instrumental in reversing our fortunes and giving us a solid base to build upon. Managerial appointments are certainly not something you can use to criticise Nik Nak for; IMO he got both spot on. Interesting to see what his next move will be (though hopefully Nige will take that decision out of his hands by overseeing a revival in fortunes). Yep thought Pards was a great choice at first, especially as he had become a forgotten man, though seeing us splutter after Xmas 2010, albeit with a late final burst raised doubts. Re. Adkins, can't put it better than you. We'll see -should the worse come to the worst, perhaps Nick Nak won't be so lucky third time around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish fingers Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Whose Wonga? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 I would love to hear nothing but sweetness and light stroies comming from contented happy folk that work for him - seriously it would be great. Do I believe these rumours? Yes I fully believe there are some seriously hacked off folk who used to work for the club - what I am simply saying is that without knowing the details of their grievence' date=' or why they are now ex employees of teh club, I cant comment on whether this is normal or abnormal and as a result it would be erong to assume one party or the other is at fault... I will also nevr get to know the facts, so if push comes to shove, I have to give the benefit of the doubt to the club, because they are not in a position to comment on individual cases.[/quote'] Surely if you heard stories of sweetness and light you would dismiss them until presented with names, evidence, details of their delight and facts Frank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Perhaps best I outline my stance. I believe Cortese was given a budget to get Saints back to the Premier League; and that budget would be written off. He succeeded in that; questions over whether we got value for money are IMO irrelevant; we spent a lot of money, incurred a lot of debt, but got the desired job done. The next step is running the football club on an even keel. That has always been the stated aim; for the club to wash its own face, and not to be reliant upon debt or loans. We're not off to a good start on that one. I think the family funding has now been switched off so its hugely important we stabilise the club and asap stop being a massively loss-making company. I'm yet to see any signs of that heppening, and will continue to be cencerned until I do. All fair comments - and I totally agree - my only comment might be that I do think our Loan need has a reasonable explanation linked to not being able to spread this over the season eg when the sky monies come in... rather than a desperate need for cash for operational elements of the business - I could be wrong, but wont assume teh worst for now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Perhaps best I outline my stance. I believe Cortese was given a budget to get Saints back to the Premier League; and that budget would be written off. He succeeded in that; questions over whether we got value for money are IMO irrelevant; we spent a lot of money, incurred a lot of debt, but got the desired job done. The next step is running the football club on an even keel. That has always been the stated aim; for the club to wash its own face, and not to be reliant upon debt or loans. We're not off to a good start on that one. I think the family funding has now been switched off so its hugely important we stabilise the club and asap stop being a massively loss-making company. I'm yet to see any signs of that heppening, and will continue to be cencerned until I do. Correct, especially the point about the family funding. That's over. The key point is that Cortese has yet to prove himself in the top flight as a CEO. So far, we're struggling. He might turn out to be the Dean Hammond of club administration. Lets hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 (edited) Surely if you heard stories of sweetness and light you would dismiss them until presented with names, evidence, details of their delight and facts Frank? Nope worng again - I would find it nice to hear, but would not take it as evidence that every thing is perfect - as it would be RUMOUR and thus not necessarily painting a true picture - you see there is a simple principle here which you seem unable to grasp.... Edited 9 November, 2012 by Frank's cousin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 The key point is that Cortese has yet to prove himself in the top flight as a CEO. Of course he hasn't. We've been in the top flight for a grand total of 10 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 What's the issue here? Article is pretty bland...nothing to report...move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 What's the issue here? Article is pretty bland...nothing to report...move on. Nutshell: 1. Your opinion of Cortese will be based on how much faith you place in the rumours and gossip of him being vindictive vs expecting some greater amount of evidence to support it 2. Pretty much agreement on the fact that in terms of being good at dealing with the financial balance between spending enough and wisely to ensure steady progress within the now more constrained or finite budget, its perhaps still too early to say whether NC can deliver on that front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Correct, especially the point about the family funding. That's over. The key point is that Cortese has yet to prove himself in the top flight as a CEO. So far, we're struggling. He might turn out to be the Dean Hammond of club administration. Lets hope not. Is it? Based on what? A loan that might have been taken out for 100,000 different reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 (edited) All fair comments - and I totally agree - my only comment might be that I do think our Loan need has a reasonable explanation linked to not being able to spread this over the season eg when the sky monies come in... rather than a desperate need for cash for operational elements of the business - I could be wrong' date=' but wont assume teh worst for now...[/quote'] I'm "comfortable" that the loan is pretty much for cashflow and to pay upfront for the Ramirez transfer. "Comfortable" in the sense that its not a huge amount (some daft Pompey fans are claiming its for £30M FFS), and that the intent is to pay it back within a year or two. Very uncomfortable that we chose a loan in the first place and are spending next year's incoming funds and instantly on arrival in the Premier league not living within our means. Edited 9 November, 2012 by The Kraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Smith Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 The days of Lowe and Wilde, Burley and Wotte are gladly far behind us now. Some commenting on hete that they think the club is run badly now, would certainly still be shaking off the trauma of those darker days! I think it's time for you all to club together and make a stand! All those that whine amd moan abput NC should boycott this forum until he resigns. And, all 10 of you or so should meet in an internet chat room and moan and moan, just like the good old days! For tjose of us that can embrace change and enjoy talking about saints can continue to do so. The wind of change is nlowing through St Mary's, embrace it or blow off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Is it? Based on what? A loan that might have been taken out for 100,000 different reasons? Based on my opinion. I'd like to see you list 100,000 different reasons why Saints needed to take out a loan, especially if you are completely discounting the idea that the family bankroll has now stopped and we need to start being self sustaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 I'm "comfortable" that the loan is pretty much for cashflow and to pay upfront for the Ramirez transfer. "Comfortable" in the sense that its not a huge amount (some daft Pompey fans are claiming its for £30M FFS), and that the intent is to pay it back within a year or two. Very uncomfortable that we chose a loan in the first place and are spending next year's incoming funds and instantly on arrival in the Premier league not living within our means. "Very uncomfortable that we chose a loan in the first place and are spending next year's incoming funds" We only know it's secured against next years funds, doesn't mean they are being used to pay it back. "on arrival in the Premier league not living within our means." Again what are you basing this on? It particularly depends on the above and we won;t know until we get the accounts, however if get what £40 odd million of premiership TV money this year and that has all been allocated to transfers funds, and it is expected that Ticket sale, commercial, sponshorship etc. covers the other outgoings of the club including wages then we are living within our means. it;s only if expenditure outdo's what we are bringing in. We also don;t know what financial backing (if any) the family/trust is giving us. I have seen it suggested by someone on here that we get a fixed sum contributed to the club each year, maybe that accounted for the initial player transfers (jay rod, clyne etc.) in up front cash, and then some of the TV money was allocated to furhter purchases. Obviously we don't get this in one lump sum, Bologna wanted the Ramirez money up front, we don't have all of it hence the loan, which we then pay back over the year when each prem TV money installment comes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 All of the parties that have been affected by Cortese, the echo, Illingsworth, Le tissier, Benali, Lawre Mac, programme sellers, ex staff etc cant all be wrong. Only a matter of time before the Cortese bubble bursts in my opinion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Very uncomfortable that we chose a loan in the first place and are spending next year's incoming funds I've no idea what the terms of the loan are but my hunch has always been that we're simply spending this year's funds in advance, rather than next year's. Just a gut feel as we'll never know for sure until the accounts for this financial year are published in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 The days of Lowe and Wilde, Burley and Wotte are gladly far behind us now. Some commenting on hete that they think the club is run badly now, would certainly still be shaking off the trauma of those darker days! I think it's time for you all to club together and make a stand! All those that whine amd moan abput NC should boycott this forum until he resigns. And, all 10 of you or so should meet in an internet chat room and moan and moan, just like the good old days! For tjose of us that can embrace change and enjoy talking about saints can continue to do so. The wind of change is nlowing through St Mary's, embrace it or blow off! So if fans think there are financial problems they should just shut the f*ck up and say nothing? Is that the solution? Or should we highlight things which are a concern? Such as Southampton Football Club Ltd's last accounts showing a net worth of minus £28M. http://companycheck.co.uk/company/00053301 Such as St. Mary's SPV Ltd's last accounts showing a new worth of minus £18M. http://companycheck.co.uk/company/03998175 Such as St. Mary's Stadium Ltd's last accounts showing a net worth of minus £22M. http://companycheck.co.uk/company/03798424 And such as DMWSL613 Ltd. (the holding company) last accounts showing a net worth of minus £24M. http://companycheck.co.uk/company/06951765 Nah, probably best just to ignore all that and assume our banker owner knows exactly what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 I've no idea what the terms of the loan are but my hunch has always been that we're simply spending this year's funds in advance, rather than next year's. Just a gut feel as we'll never know for sure until the accounts for this financial year are published in 2014. Its all interpretation, I suppose. Would you have said that a financial bonus for promotion from the Championship was last year's funds? I wouldn't, I would claim it as money earned and available to spend this year. Same for the prize money/parachute payments. Parachute payments are to cushion the blow of relegation; not to spend now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 should we highlight things which are a concern? Definitely. And should we discuss them in a constructive, ingenious and pragmatic manner? Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Highlight and ask. But the nastiness shown is way OTT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Its all interpretation, I suppose. Would you have said that a financial bonus for promotion from the Championship was last year's funds? I wouldn't, I would claim it as money earned and available to spend this year. Same for the prize money/parachute payments. Parachute payments are to cushion the blow of relegation; not to spend now. Agree in principle. But, again, we don't know what revenue stream(s) Cortese is tapping into here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 So if fans think there are financial problems they should just shut the f*ck up and say nothing? Is that the solution? Or should we highlight things which are a concern? Such as Southampton Football Club Ltd's last accounts showing a net worth of minus £28M. http://companycheck.co.uk/company/00053301 Such as St. Mary's SPV Ltd's last accounts showing a new worth of minus £18M. http://companycheck.co.uk/company/03998175 Such as St. Mary's Stadium Ltd's last accounts showing a net worth of minus £22M. http://companycheck.co.uk/company/03798424 And such as DMWSL613 Ltd. (the holding company) last accounts showing a net worth of minus £24M. http://companycheck.co.uk/company/06951765 Nah, probably best just to ignore all that and assume our banker owner knows exactly what he's doing. In isolation, these are all very worrying figures. But I suppose these days, most football clubs in the Premiership (or even other leagues - Crawley, for example) who have benefactor owners would show equal amounts of debt, loans or equity? And you do have to look at what the club would be worth today, assuming that the accounts were prepared before promotion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 (edited) "Very uncomfortable that we chose a loan in the first place and are spending next year's incoming funds" We only know it's secured against next years funds, doesn't mean they are being used to pay it back. We're having an advance of monies equivalent to those that will be paid at the end of the season. Because (I assume) we do not have the funds available now to spend them. It may only be secured against next year's funding, but its also being (has been?) spent now. The rest is speculation so neither of us knows for sure, other than we're spending money we otherwise didn't have. "on arrival in the Premier league not living within our means." Again what are you basing this on? It particularly depends on the above and we won;t know until we get the accounts, however if get what £40 odd million of premiership TV money this year and that has all been allocated to transfers funds, and it is expected that Ticket sale, commercial, sponshorship etc. covers the other outgoings of the club including wages then we are living within our means. it;s only if expenditure outdo's what we are bringing in. We also don;t know what financial backing (if any) the family/trust is giving us. I have seen it suggested by someone on here that we get a fixed sum contributed to the club each year, maybe that accounted for the initial player transfers (jay rod, clyne etc.) in up front cash, and then some of the TV money was allocated to furhter purchases. Obviously we don't get this in one lump sum, Bologna wanted the Ramirez money up front, we don't have all of it hence the loan, which we then pay back over the year when each prem TV money installment comes in. So, despite suggesting I don't know and I am speculating, you put forward a theory and speculation of your own. Ok then. There's clearly a decision for who wants to believe what, which is how it should be. I think we're not living within our means; and haven't been since the takeover. You said: "hence the loan, which we then pay back over the year when each prem TV money installment comes in"; what is this based upon? Edited 9 November, 2012 by The Kraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Of course that is offset. But it shows that money (or most of it) was generated from the club itself... As every youth academy is for teams outside of the prem A net spend of £3m to get to the premier league.. Despite claims of credit cards and free money... Is pretty fuking good. When you look at some of the spending for teams to never make the prem.... Makes it all the more surprising that the great businessman Cortese is has made losses every year of his tenure and had to get c£30m of debt turned into equity, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 All of the parties that have been affected by Cortese, the echo, Illingsworth, Le tissier, Benali, Lawre Mac, programme sellers, ex staff etc cant all be wrong. Only a matter of time before the Cortese bubble bursts in my opinion... What happens when it does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Nope worng again - I would find it nice to hear' date=' but would not take it as evidence that every thing is perfect - as it would be RUMOUR and thus not necessarily painting a true picture - you see there is a simple principle here which you seem unable to grasp....[/quote'] So just to be clear, the FACT that Illingworth is banned for daring to speak out at the club. the FACT that MLT has been totally mugged off by cortese. The FACT that Cortese did damage to Benalis house is also to be completely ignored as rumour as well? Or can we dare to put these FACTS together to the other vast number of other not so complementry reports that various people have heard and it doesn't paint a great picture of your hero is to also to be ignored as some people wont put names to versions of events they've been told? I'm still waiting for your positive rumours BTW, surely there must be some....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 So if fans think there are financial problems they should just shut the f*ck up and say nothing? Is that the solution? Or should we highlight things which are a concern? Such as Southampton Football Club Ltd's last accounts showing a net worth of minus £28M. http://companycheck.co.uk/company/00053301 Such as St. Mary's SPV Ltd's last accounts showing a new worth of minus £18M. http://companycheck.co.uk/company/03998175 Such as St. Mary's Stadium Ltd's last accounts showing a net worth of minus £22M. http://companycheck.co.uk/company/03798424 And such as DMWSL613 Ltd. (the holding company) last accounts showing a net worth of minus £24M. http://companycheck.co.uk/company/06951765 Nah, probably best just to ignore all that and assume our banker owner knows exactly what he's doing. Who are the shareholders of all these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Nah, probably best just to ignore all that and assume our banker owner knows exactly what he's doing. Bankers have never failed at anything financial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 He ain't a great businessman really. If he was great businessman, following promotion to the premier league he would of: 1) Waited for loads of mugs to buy season tickets 2) Sold all the best players and big earners 3) Signed No-one 4) Got relegated playing kids and reserves 5) Trousered all the Premier League monies 6) Operated in the Championship with a ticket sales only budget, maybe got relegated again 7) Trousered all the Parachute Payments 8 ) Flip the club on to some other mug I call it the "Blackpool XL" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 So just to be clear, the FACT that Illingworth is banned for daring to speak out at the club. the FACT that MLT has been totally mugged off by cortese. The FACT that Cortese did damage to Benalis house is also to be completely ignored as rumour as well? Or can we dare to put these FACTS together to the other vast number of other not so complementry reports that various people have heard and it doesn't paint a great picture of your hero is to also to be ignored as some people wont put names to versions of events they've been told? I'm still waiting for your positive rumours BTW, surely there must be some....... So now we've collated all this info about Cortese, now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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