Turkish Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Sorry Frank, unless I've missed something in your incredibly interesting post, it didn't contain any examples of positive rumours of treatment of staff, ex players or fans or any examples of how great his rurhlessness has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Yes, the way its being run now is entirely spot on; debt having to be turned into equity and now a bloody great loan to provide cashflow. Consistently huge losses year on year since takeover and a corporate area about as empty as its ever been; yep, we're being run better than ever before. Pipe down Krackers. He may not be a nice bloke but he's a GREAT BUSINESSMAN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 If you'd been treated badly by someone would you keep quiet or speak out ? neither - the adult thing is to speak one-to one and sort it out, out side of the media spotlight - if nothing is resolved you move on and let it go, especially if you know taht speaking out in public could harm the very thing you love or divide those that also love it... Its not as if the spat was ever something major that would impact on the success of the club - it was a personal thing... immature behaviour to use media connections to try and get public/fan support for your argument over something like this... It must be a lovely view up in your ivory towers, Frank. If I worked for a very public company like a football club, I was sacked or forced to resign from a job I'd been competently doing for many years for no good reason, and those involved in doing so refused to engage in any sort of conversation, what other option am I left with? I sure as hell wouldn't be willing to just "let it go". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Yes, the way its being run now is entirely spot on; debt having to be turned into equity and now a bloody great loan to provide cashflow. Consistently huge losses year on year since takeover and a corporate area about as empty as its ever been; yep, we're being run better than ever before. Think that is a bit disengenuous Kracken - everyone knew that Money would need to be invested to get us up the league - Markus also stringly suggested that funds would be available o do this - not unlimited, but reasonable nonetheless - so instead of gifting those funds he 'loaned them' - dont know tax advantages here but I bet NC does - which following his death was converted to equity, not sure I see anything unusual here, especially as the accounts published to date do not factir in such funds as the Oxo money etc - and teh capital investmnet needed to upgrade Staplewood was aloways going be big chunk. As the the BVI Loan - faor enough we know not much about it, and it does seem in direct opposition to what NC indicated. Some will worry, others use it as a stick, but my take is that it was necessary simply because of the way the Ramieres deal was money up front rather than spread over 2+ years and aligned with th Sky cash hand outs... But w will see when its publsihed in the accounts. Do you honestly believe NC is raking up debts to fund the club in an uncontrolled fashion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Saint Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 The story about Cortese damaging the rented home owned by Benali is actually true, as confirmed by several sources (independently of each other) close to the club Its unfortunate that our Chairman has fallen out with club legends like Le Tiss and McMenemy but fans only care about results and while the club is doing well they can just choose to look the other way...it saddens me though when fans turn against Le Tiss and other Saints legends and suck up to Cortese, they should be ashamed of themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 It must be a lovely view up in your ivory towers, Frank. If I worked for a very public company like a football club, I was sacked or forced to resign from a job I'd been competently doing for many years for no good reason, and those involved in doing so refused to engage in any sort of conversation, what other option am I left with? I sure as hell wouldn't be willing to just "let it go". Hnag on a minute Steve, if someone had been sacked for doing a job competently they would have appropriate redress... I am not advocating they should shut up and be quiet - but restructuring always has fall out and no one who has been effected by that (and that includes me) is ever happy with it. We are talking about MLT and his gripes being played out in the media. This is not someone who has no other option over a genuine grievance. Tell me what can MLT gain from thsi and how does it help the club? Tell me? I am obviously missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Think that is a bit disengenuous Kracken - everyone knew that Money would need to be invested to get us up the league - Markus also stringly suggested that funds would be available o do this - not unlimited, but reasonable nonetheless - so instead of gifting those funds he 'loaned them' - dont know tax advantages here but I bet NC does - which following his death was converted to equity, not sure I see anything unusual here, especially as the accounts published to date do not factir in such funds as the Oxo money etc - and teh capital investmnet needed to upgrade Staplewood was aloways going be big chunk. As the the BVI Loan - faor enough we know not much about it, and it does seem in direct opposition to what NC indicated. Some will worry, others use it as a stick, but my take is that it was necessary simply because of the way the Ramieres deal was money up front rather than spread over 2+ years and aligned with th Sky cash hand outs... But w will see when its publsihed in the accounts. Do you honestly believe NC is raking up debts to fund the club in an uncontrolled fashion? Money hasn't been "invested" to get us up the league. It's just been given to us to fuel an old man's dream. Now we're here, and the old man is gone, we're taking loans out. Wonga Cortese is just playing with a trainset. Nothing he has done has actually made us into a business in any danger of breaking even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Sorry Frank, unless I've missed something in your incredibly interesting post, it didn't contain any examples of positive rumours of treatment of staff, ex players or fans or any examples of how great his rurhlessness has been. You dont want to listen/read to anything that does not support your POV - fair enough, but kind of makes the point of mesage boards redundant - yet you have nearly 14000 posts, so you must be geeting something out of it... may I ask what exactly apart form a fairly poorly disguised way of pushing your own agenda? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Money hasn't been "invested" to get us up the league. It's just been given to us to fuel an old man's dream. Now we're here, and the old man is gone, we're taking loans out. Wonga Cortese is just playing with a trainset. Nothing he has done has actually made us into a business in any danger of breaking even. you may be right you may be wrong - the point being that we can only speculate on whether he he will or wont achieve that stated ambition of being self sustaining - given the necessary cap ex, and the time needed to bring the 'model' in to reality eg get a stronger more consistent bunch of kids comming through, its not really surprizing that money was needed to bridge that gap - sure NCs vision may turn out to be a naive pipe dream, but it may not, and its just speculation to assume it wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Think that is a bit disengenuous Kracken - everyone knew that Money would need to be invested to get us up the league - Markus also stringly suggested that funds would be available o do this - not unlimited, but reasonable nonetheless - so instead of gifting those funds he 'loaned them' - dont know tax advantages here but I bet NC does - which following his death was converted to equity, not sure I see anything unusual here, especially as the accounts published to date do not factir in such funds as the Oxo money etc - and teh capital investmnet needed to upgrade Staplewood was aloways going be big chunk. As the the BVI Loan - faor enough we know not much about it, and it does seem in direct opposition to what NC indicated. Some will worry, others use it as a stick, but my take is that it was necessary simply because of the way the Ramieres deal was money up front rather than spread over 2+ years and aligned with th Sky cash hand outs... But w will see when its publsihed in the accounts. Do you honestly believe NC is raking up debts to fund the club in an uncontrolled fashion? How is is disingenuous, Frank? I was responding to a direct comment that we were being run better than ever before; which neatly sidestepped the fact we've been run at a loss and have just taken out a big loan. Did I get my facts wrong? I'm not sure why its so difficult to distinguish between the successes that Cortese has overseen as a chairman and the failures he's overseen as a businessman. Its an "everything's fine on the pitch so don't comment" type attitude. Odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 You dont want to listen/read to anything that does not support your POV - fair enough' date=' but kind of makes the point of mesage boards redundant - yet you have nearly 14000 posts, so you must be geeting something out of it... may I ask what exactly apart form a fairly poorly disguised way of pushing your own agenda?[/quote'] I asked you to quote example of other clubs treating their fans, ex players and staff with such consistant distain, to post rumours of the groups being treated brilliantly by our chairman or to post examples of his ruthlessness being positive. Despite writing a million words you've failed to come up with any. Come on frank, surely there can't only be negative rumours and stories out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 you may be right you may be wrong - the point being that we can only speculate on whether he he will or wont achieve that stated ambition of being self sustaining - given the necessary cap ex' date=' and the time needed to bring the 'model' in to reality eg get a stronger more consistent bunch of kids comming through, its not really surprizing that money was needed to bridge that gap - sure NCs vision may turn out to be a naive pipe dream, but it may not, and its just speculation to assume it wont.[/quote'] Time will tell. But our starting point of self sustainability could have involved not spending £30m this summer. Reading, Swansea,Stoke, Wigan and others have survived Prem season one without that level of spend. And now we have spent it, we can't play the "poor us" underdog card. We should be staying up now. We must. That is the "model" as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 "The friend was then escorted to the ticket office and asked for identification to prove he was ‘Matt Le Tissier’, the name on the ticket." Don't see what's wrong with that. Out of curiosity, how many other instances have people heard of where the electronic cards didn't work at the gate. We could make a list to clear it up: 1. Matt Le Tissier (when the club knew he wouldn't have been using it for that game). Anyone else? Seems to be a decent article, if a little unbalanced - nothing about the improvements made to the stadium, training ground or the fantastic work the saints foundation does - and of course we don't really know the accuracy of the stories about TVs being switched etc. This is true, but is the line "Dignitaries from visiting clubs have been shocked to see Cortese demanding that the televisions should be turned off in the directors’ room at St Mary’s when Le Tissier came on." isn't true then they've just libelled Cortese in print, so I'd have thought the Mail would be fairly sure of their sources. The version of events above about the ex-saints not liking the price increase seems more likely to me. So the ex-saints are basically all about the money; that's a balanced viewpoint. Fact is that Cortese is a man who will deliver on his promises, and take the club forward. Not proven yet. We've regained some equilibrium but appear to be in a falsely high position thank's to Adkins' and the playing staff's outstanding last season. Cortese is talking about being established in the Prem, European competition and the academy providing the backbone of our team. None of that has happened yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 The story about Cortese damaging the rented home owned by Benali is actually true, as confirmed by several sources (independently of each other) close to the club Its unfortunate that our Chairman has fallen out with club legends like Le Tiss and McMenemy but fans only care about results and while the club is doing well they can just choose to look the other way...it saddens me though when fans turn against Le Tiss and other Saints legends and suck up to Cortese, they should be ashamed of themselves What the hell did he do to Benali's house... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 What the hell did he do to Benali's house... He had taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreog Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Personally, I like the way he is driven and successful getting Saints to where we are today. I don't "like" the CEO's of many companies and organisation but that doesn't mean I don't do business with them and respect what they are acheiving. This preoccupation within some areas of society that the leader has to be "liked" and revered by all and sundry is nonsense. He has stuck by NA to this point and I will expect he will for some time yet despite the grumbling of many. As far as the alleged falling out with "legends", there are often more than two sides to the saga!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Time will tell. But our starting point of self sustainability could have involved not spending £30m this summer. Reading, Swansea,Stoke, Wigan and others have survived Prem season one without that level of spend. And now we have spent it, we can't play the "poor us" underdog card. We should be staying up now. We must. That is the "model" as you say. That is a fair point - given the funding that has been made available... but I strugle with the need by some to be so determined to see it fail, or assume it already has in order to drive home a message that basically they dont like him in charge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 He had taste. LOL so he turned it into some sort of italian pleasure palace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 I asked you to quote example of other clubs treating their fans, ex players and staff with such consistant distain, to post rumours of the groups being treated brilliantly by our chairman or to post examples of his ruthlessness being positive. Despite writing a million words you've failed to come up with any. Come on frank, surely there can't only be negative rumours and stories out there? The positive stories coming form teh club are quite simple and clearly differentiated form yours in that they are not rumour, they are FACT. we were promoted back to back... how much more positive do you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 What the hell did he do to Benali's house... leftback told us once I think, changed the flooring or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 leftback told us once I think, changed the flooring or something like that. I heard that. Also refused to pay full rent supposedly because the swimming pool wasn't working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 (edited) leftback told us once I think, changed the flooring or something like that. I suppose damaged house sounds more exciting than changed the carpets....I thought he wrecked it like some DHSS chavs doing a moon light flit. You know graffiti, excrement up the walls and blocked the sinks with the taps running..... Edited 9 November, 2012 by doddisalegend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 That is a fair point - given the funding that has been made available... but I strugle with the need by some to be so determined to see it fail' date=' or assume it already has in order to drive home a message that basically they dont like him in charge...[/quote'] No one wants it to fail. But spending free money to shoot through two divisions does not make you a genius. And as we covered earlier, Lowe did keep us up for six seasons buying the likes of Carlton Palmer and 47 year old Mark Hughes. Lets see if Wonga can actually play in the big league before deciding he is infallible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Also refused to pay full rent supposedly because the swimming pool wasn't working. Sounds reasonable (if a "fully working" swimming pool was part of the contract and it wasn't working properley) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 The positive stories coming form teh club are quite simple and clearly differentiated form yours in that they are not rumour' date=' they are FACT. we were promoted back to back... how much more positive do you want?[/quote'] Sorry what FACTs are there of staff, ex players an fans talking about how wonderfully they've been treated? Or the FACTS of where Cortese ruthlessness has had massively positive impact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Wonga :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 The positive stories coming form teh club are quite simple and clearly differentiated form yours in that they are not rumour' date=' they are FACT. we were promoted back to back... how much more positive do you want?[/quote'] Sorry what FACTs are there of staff, ex players an fans talking about how wonderfully they've been treated? Or the FACTS of where Cortese ruthlessness has had massively positive impact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Sorry what FACTs are there of staff, ex players an fans talking about how wonderfully they've been treated? Or the FACTS of where Cortese ruthlessness has had massively positive impact? Axing pardew was ruthless -and dare I say it positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Out of curiosity, how many other instances have people heard of where the electronic cards didn't work at the gate. We could make a list to clear it up: 1. Matt Le Tissier (when the club knew he wouldn't have been using it for that game). Anyone else? This is true, but is the line "Dignitaries from visiting clubs have been shocked to see Cortese demanding that the televisions should be turned off in the directors’ room at St Mary’s when Le Tissier came on." isn't true then they've just libelled Cortese in print, so I'd have thought the Mail would be fairly sure of their sources. ...er no - for it to be considered libellous, it would need to cause more than just annoyance, there is nothing defamatory in saying someone turned the TV off... So the ex-saints are basically all about the money; that's a balanced viewpoint. Not proven yet. We've regained some equilibrium but appear to be in a falsely high position thank's to Adkins' and the playing staff's outstanding last season. Cortese is talking about being established in the Prem, European competition and the academy providing the backbone of our team. None of that has happened yet. True, but the assumption being made by some is that it wont,cant etc and as such all teh trivial BS and rumour means he is crap...which is eqally naive and appears agenda driven...[/QUOTE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 No one wants it to fail. But spending free money to shoot through two divisions does not make you a genius. And as we covered earlier, Lowe did keep us up for six seasons buying the likes of Carlton Palmer and 47 year old Mark Hughes. Lets see if Wonga can actually play in the big league before deciding he is infallible. I am not saying he is a genius... but that as we have seen at other clubs with money to spend, its not always enough - you need something else, be it luck, graft hard work or a culture in which teh team is united and driven by the same desire... whatever we had, we had it and it worked - and that seems inconsistent with the 'rumours' and speculation that somehow we achieved all that despite NCs best intentions to feck everything up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Can someone tell me what these stories achieve? Is Cortese going to change his ways? Pretty unlikely. Will the Liebherrs sack him and appoint someone else? Again I'd say that's unlikely. Will they force a buyer out of the woodwork? So what will these stories achieve? I'm not saying we should bury our heads in the sand, I just don't know what the end game is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Axing pardew was ruthless -and dare I say it positive. Strictly speaking it was an immediately negative move. We had no replacement lined up and instantly lost the next few games until we did identify a new manager and appoint him. And it came off the back of a 4-0 away victory; hardly getting shot of an underperforming manager. History will show that the end game proved successful. It will also show that same very manager is performing very successfully in this division, whereas his replacement (as yet) isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Axing pardew was ruthless -and dare I say it positive. Really? Don't remember too many people agreeing ar the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Sorry what FACTs are there of staff, ex players an fans talking about how wonderfully they've been treated? Or the FACTS of where Cortese ruthlessness has had massively positive impact? You are being a child and you know it... but to indulge you, I have never indicated that there are tons of happy clappy folk running around at SMS, now made a point out of it - so I dont see whay you demand examples. You have consistently suggested there is huge disharmony and used rumour and gossip - no names, no examples, just hints and gossip yet have never provided any evidence - It may be true that there are loads of disgruntlked unhappy folk - but as pointed out in my post this is is inconsistent with an envirnment that allowed the club to achieve great things - and if it was simply a case of money, why did others who spent more thenn us not get promoted instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Not proven yet. We've regained some equilibrium but appear to be in a falsely high position thank's to Adkins' and the playing staff's outstanding last season. Cortese is talking about being established in the Prem, European competition and the academy providing the backbone of our team. None of that has happened yet. True, but the assumption being made by some is that it wont,cant etc and as such all teh trivial BS and rumour means he is crap...which is eqally naive and appears agenda driven...[/QUOTE] there is nothing defamatory in saying someone turned the TV off... But that's not all they're saying is it. For someone who preaches about balance, that's a very selective interpretation of what I quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Hnag on a minute Steve' date=' if someone had been sacked for doing a job competently they would have appropriate redress... I am not advocating they should shut up and be quiet - but restructuring always has fall out and no one who has been effected by that (and that includes me) is ever happy with it. [b']We are talking about MLT and his gripes being played out in the media.[/b] This is not someone who has no other option over a genuine grievance. Tell me what can MLT gain from thsi and how does it help the club? Tell me? I am obviously missing something. This isn't just about MLT's ticket gripe, which was clearly vindictive on the part of someone within the club (seems fairly obvious who that someone would be), as season tickets are regularly transferred for the odd game here or there when the owner can't make it and nobody bats an eyelid. I know people who, as adults, have gone to games using a friend's child's season ticket, and the stewards just stand idly by and let them walk on in, despite the turnstiles flashing up an extra light when a concession ticket is placed in the scanner. Also, you could easily make a case to state that he has no other option because let's face it, if Cortese can't be arsed to talk to him (which I would suggest is clearly the case), nobody's going to be kissing and making up any time soon, are they? The article says "At least one former employee who was sacked took legal action". There have been loads. I'm sure there are many users of this forum who know someone who has been through such a scenario, the club appears to have a vindictive policy when it comes to legal action, appearing to be willing to fight industrial tribunals all the way only to then offer a settlement the day before the hearing. As a result, the number of tribunal applications has probably been a lot lower than it could/should have been, simply because the stance taken has led the former employees to become so drained and depressed by the situation that they simply can't be bothered or can't face going through the whole process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 You are being a child and you know it... but to indulge you' date=' I have never indicated that there are tons of happy clappy folk running around at SMS, now made a point out of it - so I dont see whay you demand examples. You have consistently suggested there is huge disharmony and used rumour and gossip - no names, no examples, just hints and gossip yet have never provided any evidence - It may be true that there are loads of disgruntlked unhappy folk - but as pointed out in my post this is is inconsistent with an envirnment that allowed the club to achieve great things - and if it was simply a case of money, why did others who spent more thenn us not get promoted instead?[/quote'] Don't you think it's odd that there doesn't seem to be a single rumour of happy employees or ex players? I've simply asked you to provide examples, because you can't I'm being a child. Brilliant. Let's be clear as well Frank, promotion from L1 was no great achievement. The championship was a great success but gain hardly man climbing Everest as you intelligent posters like to put it. Norwich proved this and clubs far smaller than Saints have done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 You have consistently suggested there is huge disharmony and used rumour and gossip - no names' date=' no examples, just hints and gossip yet have never provided any evidence[/quote'] Gee, I wonder why that might be? Perhaps it would be best if those names weren't mentioned so they actually remain in employment for at least a few more days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 History will show that the end game proved successful. It will also show that same very manager is performing very successfully in this division, whereas his replacement (as yet) isn't. History could show that this is a case of horses for courses - I really hope not. At least our charge has proven that he can get us promoted from lower leagues - jury out on Pardew. History could also show that Newcastle's scouting network have done a first class job for Pardew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Gee, I wonder why that might be? Perhaps it would be best if those names weren't mentioned so they actually remain in employment for at least a few more days? Utterly mental people would demand names of people working at the club who are unhappy on a forum monitored by the club. Good one Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 This isn't just about MLT's ticket gripe, which was clearly vindictive on the part of someone within the club (seems fairly obvious who that someone would be), as season tickets are regularly transferred for the odd game here or there when the owner can't make it and nobody bats an eyelid. I know people who, as adults, have gone to games using a friend's child's season ticket, and the stewards just stand idly by and let them walk on in, despite the turnstiles flashing up an extra light when a concession ticket is placed in the scanner. Also, you could easily make a case to state that he has no other option because let's face it, if Cortese can't be arsed to talk to him (which I would suggest is clearly the case), nobody's going to be kissing and making up any time soon, are they? The article says "At least one former employee who was sacked took legal action". There have been loads. I'm sure there are many users of this forum who know someone who has been through such a scenario, the club appears to have a vindictive policy when it comes to legal action, appearing to be willing to fight industrial tribunals all the way only to then offer a settlement the day before the hearing. As a result, the number of tribunal applications has probably been a lot lower than it could/should have been, simply because the stance taken has led the former employees to become so drained and depressed by the situation that they simply can't be bothered or can't face going through the whole process. Thing is Steve, when making assumptions or insinuations its easy to quote 'examples' yet without the facts and details its impossible to determine whether this is someone being vindictive or part of the fairly normal process that goes with what is a difficult situation. The club was restructured, which would mean legally that in many cases they were not made redundant, but possibly needed to agree compromise agreements - which in many cases can also provide grounds for constructive dismissal claims - so its not surprizing at all that there were 'many more' cases. We dont know whether initial offers were reasonable or not and as such can only speculate on the reasons why the club took these claims through the longer and more painful process. Its the level of speculation and then assumption based on no more than 'at least one former employer who was sacked and took legal action' - which has very negative undertones, when the reality could be be 'at least one former employer who filaied to agree a compromise agreement and took it further' which is quite common, that I have an issue with. Yes NC 'might' actually be the complete bastard from hell some are painting him, but the evdience used to do so is vague, and fuelled by gossip and speculation - that is the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 (edited) No one wants it to fail. But spending free money to shoot through two divisions does not make you a genius. And as we covered earlier, Lowe did keep us up for six seasons buying the likes of Carlton Palmer and 47 year old Mark Hughes. Lets see if Wonga can actually play in the big league before deciding he is infallible. Lowe inherited a prem team. NC,did not Be interesting to know the net spend since the takeover.. Edited 9 November, 2012 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Gee, I wonder why that might be? Perhaps it would be best if those names weren't mentioned so they actually remain in employment for at least a few more days? Turkish was talking about EX employees who hardly have to worry about that :facepalm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Utterly mental people would demand names of people working at the club who are unhappy on a forum monitored by the club. Good one Frank. see my respnse to SG - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 History could show that this is a case of horses for courses - I really hope not. At least our charge has proven that he can get us promoted from lower leagues - jury out on Pardew. On that, we will never know what Pardew would have done. What we do know is that the total points scored in his only full season with us would ordinarily have seen us reach the playoffs. And that he delivered our first silverware in more than 30 years. History could also show that Newcastle's scouting network have done a first class job for Pardew It will also show that his scouting network for us was first class. Rickie Lambert, Jose Fonte and Jason Puncheon amongst others a legacy from League 1; other players signed by Pardew that formed the foundation of a squad that rose through the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Lowe inherited a prem team. NC,did not Wonga Cortese has mometum, feel good factor, managerial stabilty, wheelbarrows full of cash (from wherever) and so on. Oh, and a 32,000 seater stadium. And he's been here two years so is all settled in. You really think Lowe inherited some superteam/club? Would you swap now for 1997? Gaston, or Mickey Evans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Yes NC 'might' actually be the complete bastard from hell some are painting him' date=' but the evdience used to do so is vague, and fuelled by gossip and speculation - that is the point.[/quote'] Out of interest, Frank. Do you choose to disbelieve all of these "rumours" until you are in plain sight of cold hard facts? Or are you truly open minded and at all concerned about the allegations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 (edited) Wonga Cortese has mometum, feel good factor, managerial stabilty, wheelbarrows full of cash (from wherever) and so on. Oh, and a 32,000 seater stadium. You really think Lowe inherited some superteam/club? Would you swap now for 1997? Gaston, or Mickey Evans? Lowe inherited a premier league team. That is a fact. Granted, a rubbish one but it was certainly higher than bottom with -10 in division 3.. Like I said, be interesting to know the net spend on the team... Discounting tv money etc since the take over It was reported Adkins net spend before this season was £3m... Pretty low really considering the progress made. There are absolutely no one, apart from MLT I would swap from 1997 to 2005. Beattie in his pomp, or crouch that season for Micky evens?? Hmm Edited 9 November, 2012 by Thedelldays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 On that, we will never know what Pardew would have done. What we do know is that the total points scored in his only full season with us would ordinarily have seen us reach the playoffs. And that he delivered our first silverware in more than 30 years. It will also show that his scouting network for us was first class. Rickie Lambert, Jose Fonte and Jason Puncheon amongst others a legacy from League 1; other players signed by Pardew that formed the foundation of a squad that rose through the league. Cant deny Pards is a good manager and I am sure he would have delivered for us as well. But for some reason the relationship broke down - whatever it was and its best not to speculate, he was replaced and it worked to a point - My take on Niges post Cov comments was less conspiracy theory and more pragmatic - I think he knew he had been given a job to do and that come the Prem he may well be replaced... yet somehow he has been given a chance, possibly also because of popular opinion that he deserved it... alternatively we can all hink its some sort of deep rooted issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 9 November, 2012 Share Posted 9 November, 2012 Lowe inherited a premier league team. That is a fact. Granted, a rubbish one but it was certainly higher than bottom with -10 in division 3.. Like I said, be interesting to know the net spend on the team... Discounting tv money etc since the take over It was reported Adkins net spend before this season was £3m... Pretty low really considering the progress made. That's a very good figure, of course. But does not take in account wages; nor the fact that the £3M figure was offset by the sale of an asset that was at the club before the manager arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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